Re: Best Of / Sexual Activity and Marijuana Use

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Sexual Activity and Marijuana Use Associated With HPV-Positive Head and Neck Cancer, Study Shows

Researchers at the Johns Hopkins Kimmel Cancer Center have teased out two distinct sets of risk factors for head and neck cancers, suggesting that there are two completely different kinds of the disease. In the Johns Hopkins study, head and neck tumors caused by the human papillomavirus (HPV), a common sexually transmitted virus, were most often linked to certain sexual behaviors and marijuana use, rather than tobacco and alcohol. The Johns Hopkins scientists also found that people with the viral-linked cancer were younger, more likely to be white, married, college-educated and have an annual income of $50,000 or higher. By contrast, those not caused by HPV, were associated with tobacco smoking, alcohol use and poor oral hygiene, which are the behaviors most often linked to head and neck cancer.

"Our results indicate that HPV-positive and HPV-negative head and neck cancers have different risk-factor profiles and should be considered two distinct diseases," says Maura L. Gillison, M.D., Ph.D., an associate professor of oncology and epidemiology at Hopkins. "They just happen to occur in the same place."The findings are to be published in the March 12 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.

Gillison and her colleagues first reported in 2000 that HPV infection is associated with the development of some head and neck cancers, particularly in the upper throat and back of the tongue (oropharynx), where it has been observed in up to 72 percent of patients. In related work, Gillison and colleagues recently reported that HPV-linked cancer has nearly doubled in incidence over the past 30 years in the United States. They also found that head and neck cancer patients with HPV-positive tumors tend to survive longer and are more responsive to treatment, compared with patients with HPV-negative tumors. That research was published online Feb. 12 also in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. According to Gillison, the American Joint Committee on Cancer is now considering incorporating HPV status in its guidelines for determining clinical stages of head and neck cancer.

For the current study, Gillison and her team studied 240 patients diagnosed with head and neck squamous cell carcinomas at the Johns Hopkins Hospital between 2000 and 2006, and determined whether their tumors were positive or negative for HPV. They formed a control group by matching up to two people without cancer to each patient by similar age and sex. All study participants completed a computerized interview that asked questions about their risk factors.

Overall, the researchers detected HPV16 in 92 cancer patients. They found that HPV-positive cancers were associated with several measures of sexual behavior and exposure to marijuana but not with tobacco or alcohol use, or with poor oral hygiene. These associations became stronger with increasing numbers of oral sex partners, and with longer or more intense use of marijuana. In fact, among nonsmokers of tobacco, participants who smoked marijuana for at least five years were 11 times more likely to develop HPV-positive cancers.

Gillison says that her study is one of the first to connect marijuana use with the development of HPV-linked head and neck cancers. "It's possible that other behaviors linked with marijuana use could be the real culprit, and our results will need to be confirmed," she says. Some reports show that chemicals in marijuana called cannabinoids could affect the immune system's ability to clear a viral infection, according to Gillison.

Sexual behaviors associated with HPV-positive cancers included increasing numbers of lifetime vaginal or oral sex partners, participating in casual sex at least once, infrequent use of barriers during vaginal or oral sex, and having had at least one sexually transmitted disease. HPV-negative cancers were found to be associated with tobacco or alcohol use and with poor oral hygiene but not with any measure of sexual behavior or marijuana use. Poor oral hygiene, tobacco and alcohol use are well-known risk factors for non-HPV related head and neck cancer. Those who had heavily used tobacco and alcohol were nearly five times more likely to develop HPV-negative head and neck cancers. Participants who brushed their teeth less than once a day were four times more likely to develop HPV-negative tumors.

Head and neck cancers occur in more than 35,000 Americans each year, and the Johns Hopkins investigators believe that the rise in the HPV variety could be due to changing sexual behaviors.

This research was supported by the Damon Runyon Cancer Research Foundation, the State of Maryland Cigarette Restitution Fund, and the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research.

___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Best Of / Teens with Social Anxiety Engage in Earlier A

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Thu May 09, 2013 11:34 am

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:34 am

Teens with Social Anxiety Engage in Earlier Alcohol, Marijuana Use

By Traci Pedersen Associate News Editor
Reviewed by John M. Grohol, Psy.D. on May 8, 2013

Among teens with substance use disorders, those who also have social anxietydisorder begin using marijuana at a mean age of 10.6 years � an average of 2.2 years earlier than teens without anxiety, according to a study conducted at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine.

�This finding surprised us,� said principal investigator Alexandra Wang, a third-year medical student at the university. �It shows we need to start earlier with prevention of drug and alcohol use and treatment of social phobia[in children].�
The study involved 195 teens (102 girls, 52 percent), aged 14 to 18 years, who met the current diagnosis of substance use disorder and had received medical detoxification if needed.

Researchers assessed the teens� history of drug and alcohol use and looked into whether they�d had any of three anxiety disorders: social anxiety disorder, panicdisorder, and agoraphobia.

Marijuana was the most popular drug of choice. Of the 195 participants, 92 percent had marijuana dependence, starting at a mean age of 13 years; 61 percent were alcohol-dependent, having started drinking at 13.5 years on average.

Teens with either social anxiety disorder or panic disorder were far more likely to have marijuana dependence, Wang said. Both of these disorders were more likely to occur before marijuana dependence.

Approximately 80 percent of teens with social anxiety disorder and 85 percent with panic disorder had symptoms of that disorder before the onset of their substance abuse. Furthermore, panic disorder tended to start before alcohol dependence and occurred in 75 percent of alcohol-dependent adolescents.
There was no clear evidence showing whether agoraphobia came before or after either marijuana use or the first drink, according to the authors.

A limitation of the study, according to the research team, was that 128 (66 percent) of the teens were juvenile offenders who had received court-referred treatment for their substance abuse. These findings might not generalize to a less severely addicted population.

Still, interventions to reduce social anxiety might help prevent substance abuse in teens. �We need to treat these young patients initially with nonpharmacologic means, such as cognitive behavioral therapyor mindfulness meditation,� said Christina Delos Reyes, M.D., a psychiatrist specializing in addictions at University Hospitals Case Medical Center.

Patrick Bordeaux, M.D., a child and adolescent psychiatrist in Quebec, Canada, said that �comorbidities tend to be the rule in adolescents, not the exception.� �Adolescents are more likely to have social and mental disorders that make them more likely to use drugs,� said Bordeaux, who was not involved with the study.
___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Re: Best Of Quitters Wisdom

wakinglife — Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:18 pm

Author: wakinglife

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:18 pm

Great post, 2Old! I'm going to post a link to it on my personal thread, so I can find it easily in the future (for myself, and for anyone I know who needs some solid advice regarding staying off substances).

Thanks for continuing to find and share such important info!

Re: Best Of Quitters Wisdom

netty28661 — Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:03 am

Author: netty28661

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:03 am

Hi 2 old 2 be buzzed, It might be more beneficial to re post the PAWS info on a separate thread specifically titled PAWS, otherwise I think alot of people wont even see it & honestly some of the info in it is invaluable.

Jannette

Re: Best Of Quitters Wisdom

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:44 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:44 pm

quote:
Originally posted by netty28661

Fantastic post 2 old, oh how I wish i had this info when I quit, its been a year now & yes PAWS set in at 4 months & carried on till 9 months - it hit me like a truck, I've never felt as crap in my life! I thought I could avoid it through diet & lots of exercise, but then I had a very stressfull month at work & hey ho it really set in, I was off work 10 wks, there is so much info in your post that was just my god yeh thats just how it was.

I think knowing this will help other quitters enormously!

Jannette

Hi Jannette

I thought this was the best article on PAWS that I have read. It is a great article to point to when recovery questions come up. I am posting it again so many can benefit from the article.

I also noticed the author answers all comments on his webpage...

http://whatmesober.com/personal-writing-about-addiction-and-recovery/early-recovery/paws/

Why We Don�t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

If you have questions about PAWS or other aspects of addiction and alcoholism, PLEASE feel free to use the comments section of this page, or the contact link at the top of any page. I respond to all questions. If I don�t have an answer, I�m good at referrals. (page link below)

http://whatmesober.com/personal-writing-about-addiction-and-recovery/early-recovery/paws/

This material was developed from Relapse Prevention seminars hosted by Terence Gorski, MS. I recommend his excellent �Staying Sober� and its accompanying workbook for anyone interested in following the subject further. Many of these concepts are Mr. Gorski�s, adapted by me for a series of relapse prevention lectures.

Re: Why We Don�t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

Many of the problems associated with early sobriety do not stem directly from drugs and alcohol. Instead, they are associated with physical and psychological changes that occur after the chemicals have left our bodies. When we use, our brains actually undergo physical change to cope with the presence of the drug in our body. When we remove the drugs, our brains then demand more to satisfy the desire caused by the changes. The extreme symptoms that we experience immediately after we stop using are called �acute withdrawal.�

Acute withdrawal, unfortunately, is not the whole story. Our bodies make initial adjustments to the absence of the drug, and the major symptoms ease up. However, the changes that have occurred in our brains need time to revert back to their original state (to the extent that they ever do). During the period of time while this is occurring, they can cause a variety of problems known as Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS).

All we addicts and alcoholics suffer from damage to our bodies and nervous systems from drug/alcohol use, accidents, and malnutrition. We may also suffer from chronic diseases such as diabetes and hepatitis, and we usually bring to early recovery a broad array of other problems. As one alcoholic put it, �When I got sober, things didn�t get any easier, but they got real �ing clear!�

Recovery causes a great deal of stress. Many addicts and alcoholics never learn to manage stress without alcohol or drug use, or do so only after many attempts at sobriety. Our ability to deal with it depends on our willingness to take care of ourselves and maintain a healthy physical, emotional and spiritual lifestyle. Repairing the damage to our nervous systems usually requires from six months to two years with a healthy program of recovery. PAWS is the cause of most relapse in early recovery.

Symptoms

PAWS symptoms reach a peak from three to six months after we get clean. Any use of drugs or alcohol, even in small quantities or for a short time, will effectively eliminate any improvement gained over that time, as it will keep the brain from healing. There are a variety of symptoms. Not everyone will experience all of them. Here are some of the main ones.

Inability to solve problems

Inability to solve problems leads to lowered self-esteem. We feel embarrassed, incompetent, and �not okay.� Diminished self-esteem and fear of failure lead to living and working problems. These all add to our stress, and the stress further exaggerates the other problems. Six things contribute to this: trouble thinking clearly, emotional overreaction, memory problems, sleep disturbances, physical coordination problems and difficulty managing stress.

Inability to think clearly

Our brain seems to work properly only part of the time. Sometimes our head just feels fuzzy because of the changes that occurred in our brains while we were using. The changes take time to improve. It is also due to the simple fact that we are trying to process a lot more information than we did before. While using, we mainly thought about getting more, using, and turning off our brains. Now we are considering the myriad things necessary to truly live our lives. To begin with, it can be a bit much.

Inability to concentrate

Abstract reasoning suffers, and we find our minds, like a confused cowboy, jumping on its horse and riding off in all directions. Also related to the reasons above.

Rigid, repetitive thinking

Thoughts go around and around in our heads, and we are unable to put them into useful order. We have not yet developed the ability to channel our thoughts and concentrate on one thing at a time.

Memory problems

We may hear something, understand it, and 20 minutes later�it�s gone! This sort of thing complicates our lives in many ways. It upsets supervisors, annoys significant others, and makes us wonder if we�re losing our minds.

With memory problems it is hard to learn new skills and absorb new information. We learn by building on what we have already learned, and memory difficulties can make it very difficult (if not impossible) to do that. Again, these difficulties add to stress, especially if we do not understand what�s happening to us. We may think, �This sucks! I might as well be high.�

Emotional overreaction or numbness �

People with emotional problems in early sobriety tend to over-react. When this overreaction puts more stress on our nervous systems than we can handle, we react by �shutting down� our emotions. We become emotionally numb, unable to feel anything. We may swing from one mood to another. These mood swings may baffle us, seeming to come without any reason, and may even be misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder. If we have developed insulin resistance or diabetes as a result of our drugs and drinking, this can become extreme. (See H.A.L.T. below)

Sleep disturbances

Disturbed sleep is common in recovery. It may last only a short time, or a lifetime. Often, this depends on what we consider to be a problem. If we are night owls who used alcohol or pills to get to sleep in the daytime, we may discover that the only solution is to make significant changes in our schedule, and perhaps even in our occupations. Sleep deprivation stresses the body, prevents our minds from working well, and generally exaggerates any other difficulties we may be experiencing.

We may experience changes in our sleep patterns, sleeping for long periods at a time, or getting sleepy at different times of the day. Although these may persist, we are usually able to adjust to them. The important thing is to be willing to adjust. We may not be able to keep to our old sleeping habits.

Stress

Difficulty managing stress is the most difficult part of post acute withdrawal, and of early recovery in general. Early on, we may not be able to distinguish between low and high stress situations, because for so many years we managed stress by using mood-altering substances.

Worst of all, the other PAWS symptoms become worse when we are under stress, and this causes the stress to increase! There is a direct relationship between elevated stress and the severity of PAWS. Each amplifies the other.

At times of low stress, the symptoms of post acute withdrawal may lessen or even go away completely. When we are well-rested, relaxed, eating properly and getting along well with others, we seem to be fine. It is easy to see how we can get careless at these times, and many a relapse has occurred when things seemed to be going just fine.

Abstinence

Recovery from the damage caused by our addictions requires total abstinence. Abstinence means avoiding drugs and alcohol completely, unless we are under the care of a physician who understands both addictive disease and pharmacology. This specifically includes herbal remedies which, in many cases, are just as powerful and dangerous as prescription drugs.

Understanding and recognizing PAWS symptoms

Because we are addicts and alcoholics, and because repeated relapses will eventually be fatal, we must realize that understanding PAWS is, literally, a matter of life and death. It is absolutely essential that we gain an understanding of post acute withdrawal, be able to recognize its symptoms when they appear, and know what to do about them. We must understand these things well enough that we are able to put them into effect even during periods when our addict instincts are telling us that we don�t want or need to!

We need also to learn about PAWS, and means of controlling it, when our stress levels are low, in order to be able to prevent the symptoms or be able to recognize and manage them if they occur.

Stabilizing our episodes of PAWS

When we begin to experience PAWS, we need to bring it under control as soon as possible. Here are five steps that can help.

Talk!

We need to talk about what�s happening, to people who will listen and not criticize us. In addition to badly needed support, it helps us to clarify our feelings, look at them more realistically, and helps us recognize our symptoms. When we are in our own heads, our thoughts just go around and around. When we force ourselves to tell someone else, we often find that it puts them into order and they begin to make sense.

Ventilate!

We need to express as much as we can about what we are feeling, even if we think it sounds dumb or irrational.

Get a reality check!

We need to ask someone if we are making sense � not just in what we�re saying, but also our behavior. We must be sure our perception of what is happening matches up with reality.

Set a goal

What can we do right now to improve our situation? Taking action and changing things is our choice.

Think back�

�over what has happened. How did the episode start? What triggered us? What could we have done to reverse it sooner? Were there other options that might have worked better?

Self Defense

We are responsible for protecting ourselves from anything that threatens our sobriety, including anything that triggers post acute withdrawal symptoms. No one else can do it, because no one else can feel the warning signals. Learning about addictive disease, working a program of recovery, finding out more about PAWS�all of these things reduce the guilt, confusion and stress that intensify the symptoms and lead us to relapse. If we learn to do these things, we will begin to accept our own needs, and learn to be firm about letting other people, places and situations push us into reactions that threaten our sobriety.

We must identify our own stress triggers. Then we must learn to change them, avoid them, change our reactions, or interrupt the process before our lives get out of control again. If our Aunt Frizzy is blaming us for all the family problems, and letting us know it every chance she gets, we may need to avoid her for a while (a few years, a life�who knows?) If we find ourselves walking past the beer cooler too often in the store, or past a certain street corner, we need to recognize that, and change our routes through the store and the neighborhood.

Tools

Here are some things that will help us avoid PAWS, or control it when it sneaks up (which it will). They may be the most important things we will learn in the first few months of our sobriety. They are so important that we encourage you to print out this article, and to share it with others who may need it too.

Nutrition

With our organ systems damaged by alcohol and drugs, we were not�and may still not be�able to absorb nutrients properly. This, combined with our inattention to diet, has created deficiencies that we must deal with. All active alcoholics (and most other addicts) suffer from malnutrition to one degree or another, and we may continue to feel the effects for months after adopting a healthier lifestyle. Malnutrition contributes to poor health, and poor health contributes to stress. Unless we consciously improve our diets and properly supply our nutritional needs, the poor eating habits that have carried over from our using days guarantee that we will continue to fail at getting the nutrients needed to recover. Our bodies are repairing themselves, and they need the proper materials to do so effectively.

It isn�t necessary to load up on stuff from the health food store. It is much better to spend all that money on good healthy food at the market (although they�ll never tell you that at the health food store). However, we should take a good multivitamin every morning with breakfast. Yes, you will be eating breakfast.

Hypoglycemia � the secret demon of relapse (H.A.L.T.)

We�re tired and hungry. It�s been a long day, and we won�t be able to have dinner for a couple of hours. A candy bar is just what we need to pick us up and get us through. Forty-five minutes after eating the candy we are angry at our boss, arguing with our co-workers, suffering with tense muscles and a nasty headache, and life sucks again. We�re thinking about using.

Has this ever happened to you? Then you already know something about hypoglycemia.

Our brains use glucose, a kind of sugar, for fuel. If our brains are completely deprived of glucose, we will die just as quickly as we would if our air were shut off. Fortunately, our blood carries glucose to our brain, and as long as our heart is beating we don�t usually have to worry about its fuel supply. Usually.

Glucose is manufactured by our bodies from the carbohydrates that we eat. Carbohydrates (carbs) are a class of nutrients that include several kinds of sugars, pasta, bread, potatoes, and similar starchy foods. Practically all foods contain some carbs, but the most concentrated sources of them are sugars and alcohol.

In addition to fueling our brains, glucose provides energy for every cell in our bodies. Without glucose in the right quantities, our bodies just don�t work right. The carbohydrates most easily converted into glucose are the sugars. This is why we like them so much. Our bodies recognize that they are a ready source of energy.

The problem arises when we are in need of food and our bodies get a big jolt of sugar. The sugar is quickly converted into glucose. The amount of glucose in our blood rises very quickly, and we feel a burst of energy. We may feel some mood alteration as our brains receive a huge jolt of fuel.

We just received a reward for eating some sugar.

The big dose of sugar on an empty stomach causes our blood glucose to rise rapidly. A center in our brain detects the rise, and signals the pancreas to produce more insulin to help our cells absorb the extra sugar, but it produces too much. The insulin causes us to burn the extra glucose rapidly, and our blood sugar comes down, but because there is too much insulin, our glucose levels drop too far. (In diabetics and people who are insulin-resistant the mechanism is different, but the effect is the same�or worse.)

Our bodies�and our brains�are now low on glucose. The brain is running out of fuel. Waste products build up in our muscles. Along with inefficient signals from the brain, this causes tightness and muscle tremors. Partial paralysis of facial muscles may make it difficult or impossible to smile. Our heads begin to ache. Thinking gets fuzzy. Energy levels drop. We push people away, if we don�t scare them away. We may feel sudden bursts of rage, that seem quite reasonable. We begin feeling sorry for ourselves. . We are HUNGRY, ANGRY, LONELY and TIRED.

The big catch? Most of us, in our addictions, knew all too well how to quell those nasty feelings�by using. Poor me�poor me�pour me a drink

Important Point: We taught ourselves to interpret the symptoms of low blood sugar�hunger�as needing to use.

So, how do we avoid the trap? Easy in principle, but it involves some attention, some learning, and some effort. Basically, we don�t let ourselves get hungry.

Diet for Recovery:

Three nutritious snacks each day,
between meals and at bedtime
Avoid Sugar and Caffeine

Meal Planning

We are �trapped� in a culture that tells us Three Square Meals A Day is the way to eat. Many of us interpret that as one �round� meal at breakfast time�a doughnut, or bowl of cereal, and a cup of coffee�one �rectangular� meal for lunch�a sandwich and another cup of coffee�and one huge meal in the evening. Since these aren�t really spreading the fuel around too well, we fill in the low spots with candy bars and some more coffee. Our poor pancreas! For, in addition to all that sugar in fits and spurts, caffeine also causes blood sugar swings!

We really need to get this thing under control! Hunger produces stress. Blood sugar swings produce stress. Stress aggravates PAWS and, as we have seen, is extremely dangerous to our sobriety when combined with hypoglycemia�which is caused by poor eating habits, too much sugar, and caffeine. Are we beginning to see a trend here?

Alcoholics and addicts in early recovery literally �take our lives in our hands� each time we plan our daily meals.

A quick word about diet:

Our diets should consist of a balanced mix of vegetables, fruit, carbohydrates, (such as potatoes, whole-grain rice, and dark breads,) protein (not necessarily meat), fat, and dairy products. A nutritionist can be a great help in the beginning, and there are thousands of books on nutrition and meal-planning that may be consulted. If we don�t know how to shop and cook, now is a good time to learn.

The US Department of Agriculture�s Food and Nutrition page is a good place to begin.

Scheduling

We should try to plan our schedules so that we do not skip meals�ever�and so that we can have nutritious snacks between meals.

We must not snack on candy, donuts, soft drinks, (incredibly high in sugar,) potato chips, or other high calorie, low nutrient foods.

We should carry raw vegetables, wheat crackers, a half sandwich (peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat is excellent; easy on the jelly), nuts, or even a package of cheese and crackers.

These, along with a glass of water or milk, will keep our blood sugar steady and our moods elevated until time for the next meal. Having a nutritious snack before we begin to feel hungry will prevent our craving for sweets, as well.

It�s a good idea to actually schedule our snacks, halfway between meals and about � hour before bedtime. We must not miss breakfast!

Losing Weight While Eating Six Times A Day

These eating habits are not inconsistent with meal planning for weight loss. Competent dietitians and honest diet doctors know that several smaller meals are more conducive to weight loss than three larger meals, since the body more easily uses the smaller quantities of food, and is less likely to store it as fat. Properly planned meals will contribute to our health, energy and feelings of well-being, and make it easier for us to engage in exercise, (the real secret to weight control.) Our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate fruits and berries during the day, and gorged on game when they could kill something. Metabolically, we aren�t very far from those folks. The big difference between us and them?

Exercise

Exercise helps our bodies to rebuild themselves and maintain proper functioning. It also helps control our metabolism and prevent unnecessary weight gain. (Weight gain due to increased muscle mass may precede any loss due to burning fat.) Exercise produces chemicals in our brains that act as natural tranquilizers and relieve pain, anxiety and tension. It greatly improves our chances of getting a good night�s sleep.

Our ancestors lived together in small tribes of no more than twenty or so adults and a few children. They walked from place to place, following the food supply, eating whatever they could find. They carried everything they owned with them.

This lifestyle, during the eons preceding the beginnings of agriculture, is the lifestyle for which our bodies are best suited. Humans�like the herds we have followed since the beginning of our history�walk.

So, how much should we walk? Simple. We should walk fast enough and far enough to work up a sweat, and continue walking for at least 20 minutes thereafter, followed by a slower cool-down of 5 to 10 minutes. We should do that at least three times a week�preferably every other day.

We can walk at the mall; walk to the store; walk to the park. We can walk with a friend. When we�re walking we can chat, unlike most other forms of exercise. All we need is decent shoes and, if we�re over 50 or under a doctor�s care, our physician�s permission. And while we do it, we�re continuing a tradition that goes back thousands of years. How about that, sports fans?

Relaxation = stress reduction

Playing and relaxation are absolutely essential to a successful recovery.

Playing is not so much what we do as how we do it. Playing is having fun, laughing, and being childlike and free. Playing is not working at preparing for a marathon, participating in competitive sports at which we �must� win, or taking chess lessons. Of the 37 definitions I quickly scanned, perhaps the one that best describes it is �participating in an activity for amusement.� If it isn�t fun�if we have to work at it�it isn�t play.

Other ways of relaxing include bubble baths, our walk (by ourselves or with a friend), a massage, a swim, and watching children and animals at play. Whatever we do, if we don�t feel better after doing it, it was the wrong choice.

Meditation

Meditation is part of the 11th Step: �Sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with god, as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out.�

Regardless of how we feel about god, we need to meditate. We need to learn to calm our minds, and to allow our subconscious to help us solve problems by serving up whatever it may have processed during the rest of the day. The only way to do that is to meditate in one form or another.

Think that�s too hard to learn? You already do it. Daydreaming is meditation. All we need to do is apply the skills we already know, whenever we want to.

One of the best relaxation exercises is also one the simplest. We find a comfortable sitting position. We move our bodies until our weight is centered, so that we can nearly go limp without changing position. We begin counting our breaths in our mind. We count up to ten, and then start over. We think only about breathing. In comes the fresh air and we�relax�and breathe the tension out. If other thoughts come in, we don�t fight them, we just recognize that they are there, and go back to counting breaths, always silently.

This is one of the oldest and most-used relaxation techniques in the world. It goes back at least 3500 years. We can do it for five minutes, then ten, working up to thirty minutes or more. It might be a good idea to set an alarm, in case we fall asleep sitting up. It happens.

Spirituality

Spirituality is an active relationship with a power greater than us, which gives our lives meaning and purpose. When we work a spiritual program, we consciously try to become a part of something bigger, greater and more powerful than we are, whether that be a 12-step group, our family, other humans generally, or that �god as we understood him.�

Trust in a higher power gives us a peace of mind and serenity that comes from awareness that there is something that is not restricted by our own weaknesses and limitations. Through spiritual development, we develop new confidence in our own abilities and develop a sense of hope. Through a spiritual program we can reach toward the future with hope and a positive attitude.

Spiritual discipline is uncomfortable for many recovering people.

We have lived lives of immediate gratification, and discipline is the reverse of that. Many of us have trouble with the concept of a higher power, as well. We may have been brought up as atheists or agnostics. Perhaps the god of our childhood was a vengeful god whom we cannot even begin to contemplate in the light of some of our past behavior.

This is why we say that our higher power can be god, as we understand god, or our recovery group, or the great outdoors � whatever. Recognizing a higher power is simply admitting that we aren�t perfect and don�t know everything. We let all those grandiose feelings go, substituting a bit of humility instead, and becoming willing to listen to the ideas and advice of others. In a sense, it is not so much recognizing the presence of a god as it is the realization that we aren�t one.

Spiritual discipline should always include meditation, fellowship, and regular inventory of spiritual growth. It is about our relationship with the human spirit. It is not about someone else�s idea of a relationship we should have with a god. That is religion. While religion may be an important part of our recovery, it cannot take the place of spirituality.

In working on our spirituality, it is important that we use the principles of our 12-step programs. They provide guidelines for �increasing our conscious contact with god� (as we understand god). We do not have to have any particular image of, or belief in, a god to increase our conscious contact. We have only to be willing to recognize the possibility of a �higher� power, � be willing to experiment at listening, and opening ourselves up to others and their ideas.

Many people joke about having a tree as your higher power. The writer had that sort of relationship with a majestic Casurina tree for some time. He used it to remind himself that he was not nearly as good at taking care of himself�yet�as that beautiful tree. Did it work? Who knows? At the time of this writing, he is 20 years clean and sober. Something did.

Peace and Contemplation

It is important that we structure our lives in such a way as to spend time alone each day. We need to examine our values, and look within ourselves to determine whether our lives are in harmony with those values. Perhaps we can combine this with our meditation, contemplating life issues and then meditating to let our subconscious come up with some answers.

Journaling

We strongly recommend keeping a journal, and writing in it every day without fail�even if we only write the date. Forcing ourselves to organize our thoughts and put them on paper clears our minds. Reading what we wrote some years later can be highly instructive, and lets us see how we have grown in our recovery.

Balanced Living�the aim of recovery

Balanced living means that we are healthy physically and psychologically, and that we have healthy relationships with others and, more importantly, with ourselves. It means that we are spiritually whole. It means that we are no longer focused on just one aspect of our lives. That is no longer necessary. It means we are living responsibly, giving ourselves time for our jobs, our families, our friends, and time for our own growth and recovery. It means allowing a higher power to work in our lives, even if that is only the influence of people around us. With balanced living, we addicts and alcoholics give up immediate gratification as a lifestyle, in order to attain fulfilling and meaningful lives.

It means a balance between work and play, between fulfilling our responsibilities to other people and our own need for self-fulfillment. It means functioning at our optimum stress level: maintaining enough stress to keep us functioning in a healthy way, but not overloading ourselves so that it becomes a problem.

Stress, in and of itself, is not necessarily bad. It can be the tension that keeps life interesting. But stress is unsafe for us until our new found ways of dealing with it are second nature. Until then, when it arises we run the risk of returning to our old ways of stress management.

Balanced living requires loving ourselves and taking care of ourselves. Nutrition, rest and exercise all receive the proper focus in our lives to provide energy, manage stress, allow freedom from illness and pain, fight fatigue, and rebuild our damaged bodies.

If we are under a physician�s care, and have been told to take certain medications, we do so. We do not stop taking them without consulting the physician. We communicate with our physicians regarding the effects that we perceive, the ways that we feel, and function as partners with her/him in our own treatment. We do not take the advice of amateurs, in the rooms of recovery or out of them, in place of the counsel of doctors with twenty-plus years of education. That�s just plain dumb. However�

We always tell our health providers that we are in recovery, and always double-check their suggestions regarding medications with a person knowledgeable about their effects on recovering people. Doctors are not pharmacists. They do not have time to study drugs and the details of their action. A good relationship with a pharmacist has saved the butt of many an addict/alcoholic.

Summary

Freedom from physical distress allows psychological growth. When we feel good, it is easier to do the work we need to do, eliminate denial, guilt and anger, and move on to self-confidence, self-esteem and learning to feel good about ourselves.

Balanced living requires a strong social network that nurtures us and encourages a healthy, recovery-oriented lifestyle. This network provides a sense of belonging. It includes relationships in which we are a valuable part of a whole: immediate family members, friends, relatives, co-workers, counselors, therapists, employers, 12-step group members, and sponsors.

Recovery is not about quitting alcohol and drugs. It is about learning to live a life that does not require mood-altering chemicals to be worth living.

Re: Best Of Quitters Wisdom

netty28661 — Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:22 pm

Author: netty28661

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:22 pm

Fantastic post 2 old, oh how I wish i had this info when I quit, its been a year now & yes PAWS set in at 4 months & carried on till 9 months - it hit me like a truck, I've never felt as crap in my life! I thought I could avoid it through diet & lots of exercise, but then I had a very stressfull month at work & hey ho it really set in, I was off work 10 wks, there is so much info in your post that was just my god yeh thats just how it was.

I think knowing this will help other quitters enormously!

Jannette

Best Of / Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:58 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:58 pm

Why We Don�t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

If you have questions about PAWS or other aspects of addiction and alcoholism, PLEASE feel free to use the comments section of this page, or the contact link at the top of any page. I respond to all questions. If I don�t have an answer, I�m good at referrals. (page link below)

http://whatmesober.com/personal-writing-about-addiction-and-recovery/early-recovery/paws/

This material was developed from Relapse Prevention seminars hosted by Terence Gorski, MS. I recommend his excellent �Staying Sober� and its accompanying workbook for anyone interested in following the subject further. Many of these concepts are Mr. Gorski�s, adapted by me for a series of relapse prevention lectures.

Re: Why We Don�t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

Many of the problems associated with early sobriety do not stem directly from drugs and alcohol. Instead, they are associated with physical and psychological changes that occur after the chemicals have left our bodies. When we use, our brains actually undergo physical change to cope with the presence of the drug in our body. When we remove the drugs, our brains then demand more to satisfy the desire caused by the changes. The extreme symptoms that we experience immediately after we stop using are called �acute withdrawal.�

Acute withdrawal, unfortunately, is not the whole story. Our bodies make initial adjustments to the absence of the drug, and the major symptoms ease up. However, the changes that have occurred in our brains need time to revert back to their original state (to the extent that they ever do). During the period of time while this is occurring, they can cause a variety of problems known as Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS).

All we addicts and alcoholics suffer from damage to our bodies and nervous systems from drug/alcohol use, accidents, and malnutrition. We may also suffer from chronic diseases such as diabetes and hepatitis, and we usually bring to early recovery a broad array of other problems. As one alcoholic put it, �When I got sober, things didn�t get any easier, but they got real �ing clear!�

Recovery causes a great deal of stress. Many addicts and alcoholics never learn to manage stress without alcohol or drug use, or do so only after many attempts at sobriety. Our ability to deal with it depends on our willingness to take care of ourselves and maintain a healthy physical, emotional and spiritual lifestyle. Repairing the damage to our nervous systems usually requires from six months to two years with a healthy program of recovery. PAWS is the cause of most relapse in early recovery.

Symptoms

PAWS symptoms reach a peak from three to six months after we get clean. Any use of drugs or alcohol, even in small quantities or for a short time, will effectively eliminate any improvement gained over that time, as it will keep the brain from healing. There are a variety of symptoms. Not everyone will experience all of them. Here are some of the main ones.

Inability to solve problems

Inability to solve problems leads to lowered self-esteem. We feel embarrassed, incompetent, and �not okay.� Diminished self-esteem and fear of failure lead to living and working problems. These all add to our stress, and the stress further exaggerates the other problems. Six things contribute to this: trouble thinking clearly, emotional overreaction, memory problems, sleep disturbances, physical coordination problems and difficulty managing stress.

Inability to think clearly

Our brain seems to work properly only part of the time. Sometimes our head just feels fuzzy because of the changes that occurred in our brains while we were using. The changes take time to improve. It is also due to the simple fact that we are trying to process a lot more information than we did before. While using, we mainly thought about getting more, using, and turning off our brains. Now we are considering the myriad things necessary to truly live our lives. To begin with, it can be a bit much.

Inability to concentrate

Abstract reasoning suffers, and we find our minds, like a confused cowboy, jumping on its horse and riding off in all directions. Also related to the reasons above.

Rigid, repetitive thinking

Thoughts go around and around in our heads, and we are unable to put them into useful order. We have not yet developed the ability to channel our thoughts and concentrate on one thing at a time.

Memory problems

We may hear something, understand it, and 20 minutes later�it�s gone! This sort of thing complicates our lives in many ways. It upsets supervisors, annoys significant others, and makes us wonder if we�re losing our minds.

With memory problems it is hard to learn new skills and absorb new information. We learn by building on what we have already learned, and memory difficulties can make it very difficult (if not impossible) to do that. Again, these difficulties add to stress, especially if we do not understand what�s happening to us. We may think, �This sucks! I might as well be high.�

Emotional overreaction or numbness �

People with emotional problems in early sobriety tend to over-react. When this overreaction puts more stress on our nervous systems than we can handle, we react by �shutting down� our emotions. We become emotionally numb, unable to feel anything. We may swing from one mood to another. These mood swings may baffle us, seeming to come without any reason, and may even be misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder. If we have developed insulin resistance or diabetes as a result of our drugs and drinking, this can become extreme. (See H.A.L.T. below)

Sleep disturbances

Disturbed sleep is common in recovery. It may last only a short time, or a lifetime. Often, this depends on what we consider to be a problem. If we are night owls who used alcohol or pills to get to sleep in the daytime, we may discover that the only solution is to make significant changes in our schedule, and perhaps even in our occupations. Sleep deprivation stresses the body, prevents our minds from working well, and generally exaggerates any other difficulties we may be experiencing.

We may experience changes in our sleep patterns, sleeping for long periods at a time, or getting sleepy at different times of the day. Although these may persist, we are usually able to adjust to them. The important thing is to be willing to adjust. We may not be able to keep to our old sleeping habits.

Stress

Difficulty managing stress is the most difficult part of post acute withdrawal, and of early recovery in general. Early on, we may not be able to distinguish between low and high stress situations, because for so many years we managed stress by using mood-altering substances.

Worst of all, the other PAWS symptoms become worse when we are under stress, and this causes the stress to increase! There is a direct relationship between elevated stress and the severity of PAWS. Each amplifies the other.

At times of low stress, the symptoms of post acute withdrawal may lessen or even go away completely. When we are well-rested, relaxed, eating properly and getting along well with others, we seem to be fine. It is easy to see how we can get careless at these times, and many a relapse has occurred when things seemed to be going just fine.

Abstinence

Recovery from the damage caused by our addictions requires total abstinence. Abstinence means avoiding drugs and alcohol completely, unless we are under the care of a physician who understands both addictive disease and pharmacology. This specifically includes herbal remedies which, in many cases, are just as powerful and dangerous as prescription drugs.

Understanding and recognizing PAWS symptoms

Because we are addicts and alcoholics, and because repeated relapses will eventually be fatal, we must realize that understanding PAWS is, literally, a matter of life and death. It is absolutely essential that we gain an understanding of post acute withdrawal, be able to recognize its symptoms when they appear, and know what to do about them. We must understand these things well enough that we are able to put them into effect even during periods when our addict instincts are telling us that we don�t want or need to!

We need also to learn about PAWS, and means of controlling it, when our stress levels are low, in order to be able to prevent the symptoms or be able to recognize and manage them if they occur.

Stabilizing our episodes of PAWS

When we begin to experience PAWS, we need to bring it under control as soon as possible. Here are five steps that can help.

Talk!

We need to talk about what�s happening, to people who will listen and not criticize us. In addition to badly needed support, it helps us to clarify our feelings, look at them more realistically, and helps us recognize our symptoms. When we are in our own heads, our thoughts just go around and around. When we force ourselves to tell someone else, we often find that it puts them into order and they begin to make sense.

Ventilate!

We need to express as much as we can about what we are feeling, even if we think it sounds dumb or irrational.

Get a reality check!

We need to ask someone if we are making sense � not just in what we�re saying, but also our behavior. We must be sure our perception of what is happening matches up with reality.

Set a goal

What can we do right now to improve our situation? Taking action and changing things is our choice.

Think back�

�over what has happened. How did the episode start? What triggered us? What could we have done to reverse it sooner? Were there other options that might have worked better?

Self Defense

We are responsible for protecting ourselves from anything that threatens our sobriety, including anything that triggers post acute withdrawal symptoms. No one else can do it, because no one else can feel the warning signals. Learning about addictive disease, working a program of recovery, finding out more about PAWS�all of these things reduce the guilt, confusion and stress that intensify the symptoms and lead us to relapse. If we learn to do these things, we will begin to accept our own needs, and learn to be firm about letting other people, places and situations push us into reactions that threaten our sobriety.

We must identify our own stress triggers. Then we must learn to change them, avoid them, change our reactions, or interrupt the process before our lives get out of control again. If our Aunt Frizzy is blaming us for all the family problems, and letting us know it every chance she gets, we may need to avoid her for a while (a few years, a life�who knows?) If we find ourselves walking past the beer cooler too often in the store, or past a certain street corner, we need to recognize that, and change our routes through the store and the neighborhood.

Tools

Here are some things that will help us avoid PAWS, or control it when it sneaks up (which it will). They may be the most important things we will learn in the first few months of our sobriety. They are so important that we encourage you to print out this article, and to share it with others who may need it too.

Nutrition

With our organ systems damaged by alcohol and drugs, we were not�and may still not be�able to absorb nutrients properly. This, combined with our inattention to diet, has created deficiencies that we must deal with. All active alcoholics (and most other addicts) suffer from malnutrition to one degree or another, and we may continue to feel the effects for months after adopting a healthier lifestyle. Malnutrition contributes to poor health, and poor health contributes to stress. Unless we consciously improve our diets and properly supply our nutritional needs, the poor eating habits that have carried over from our using days guarantee that we will continue to fail at getting the nutrients needed to recover. Our bodies are repairing themselves, and they need the proper materials to do so effectively.

It isn�t necessary to load up on stuff from the health food store. It is much better to spend all that money on good healthy food at the market (although they�ll never tell you that at the health food store). However, we should take a good multivitamin every morning with breakfast. Yes, you will be eating breakfast.

Hypoglycemia � the secret demon of relapse (H.A.L.T.)

We�re tired and hungry. It�s been a long day, and we won�t be able to have dinner for a couple of hours. A candy bar is just what we need to pick us up and get us through. Forty-five minutes after eating the candy we are angry at our boss, arguing with our co-workers, suffering with tense muscles and a nasty headache, and life sucks again. We�re thinking about using.

Has this ever happened to you? Then you already know something about hypoglycemia.

Our brains use glucose, a kind of sugar, for fuel. If our brains are completely deprived of glucose, we will die just as quickly as we would if our air were shut off. Fortunately, our blood carries glucose to our brain, and as long as our heart is beating we don�t usually have to worry about its fuel supply. Usually.

Glucose is manufactured by our bodies from the carbohydrates that we eat. Carbohydrates (carbs) are a class of nutrients that include several kinds of sugars, pasta, bread, potatoes, and similar starchy foods. Practically all foods contain some carbs, but the most concentrated sources of them are sugars and alcohol.

In addition to fueling our brains, glucose provides energy for every cell in our bodies. Without glucose in the right quantities, our bodies just don�t work right. The carbohydrates most easily converted into glucose are the sugars. This is why we like them so much. Our bodies recognize that they are a ready source of energy.

The problem arises when we are in need of food and our bodies get a big jolt of sugar. The sugar is quickly converted into glucose. The amount of glucose in our blood rises very quickly, and we feel a burst of energy. We may feel some mood alteration as our brains receive a huge jolt of fuel.

We just received a reward for eating some sugar.

The big dose of sugar on an empty stomach causes our blood glucose to rise rapidly. A center in our brain detects the rise, and signals the pancreas to produce more insulin to help our cells absorb the extra sugar, but it produces too much. The insulin causes us to burn the extra glucose rapidly, and our blood sugar comes down, but because there is too much insulin, our glucose levels drop too far. (In diabetics and people who are insulin-resistant the mechanism is different, but the effect is the same�or worse.)

Our bodies�and our brains�are now low on glucose. The brain is running out of fuel. Waste products build up in our muscles. Along with inefficient signals from the brain, this causes tightness and muscle tremors. Partial paralysis of facial muscles may make it difficult or impossible to smile. Our heads begin to ache. Thinking gets fuzzy. Energy levels drop. We push people away, if we don�t scare them away. We may feel sudden bursts of rage, that seem quite reasonable. We begin feeling sorry for ourselves. . We are HUNGRY, ANGRY, LONELY and TIRED.

The big catch? Most of us, in our addictions, knew all too well how to quell those nasty feelings�by using. Poor me�poor me�pour me a drink

Important Point: We taught ourselves to interpret the symptoms of low blood sugar�hunger�as needing to use.

So, how do we avoid the trap? Easy in principle, but it involves some attention, some learning, and some effort. Basically, we don�t let ourselves get hungry.

Diet for Recovery:

Three nutritious snacks each day,
between meals and at bedtime
Avoid Sugar and Caffeine

Meal Planning

We are �trapped� in a culture that tells us Three Square Meals A Day is the way to eat. Many of us interpret that as one �round� meal at breakfast time�a doughnut, or bowl of cereal, and a cup of coffee�one �rectangular� meal for lunch�a sandwich and another cup of coffee�and one huge meal in the evening. Since these aren�t really spreading the fuel around too well, we fill in the low spots with candy bars and some more coffee. Our poor pancreas! For, in addition to all that sugar in fits and spurts, caffeine also causes blood sugar swings!

We really need to get this thing under control! Hunger produces stress. Blood sugar swings produce stress. Stress aggravates PAWS and, as we have seen, is extremely dangerous to our sobriety when combined with hypoglycemia�which is caused by poor eating habits, too much sugar, and caffeine. Are we beginning to see a trend here?

Alcoholics and addicts in early recovery literally �take our lives in our hands� each time we plan our daily meals.

A quick word about diet:

Our diets should consist of a balanced mix of vegetables, fruit, carbohydrates, (such as potatoes, whole-grain rice, and dark breads,) protein (not necessarily meat), fat, and dairy products. A nutritionist can be a great help in the beginning, and there are thousands of books on nutrition and meal-planning that may be consulted. If we don�t know how to shop and cook, now is a good time to learn.

The US Department of Agriculture�s Food and Nutrition page is a good place to begin.

Scheduling

We should try to plan our schedules so that we do not skip meals�ever�and so that we can have nutritious snacks between meals.

We must not snack on candy, donuts, soft drinks, (incredibly high in sugar,) potato chips, or other high calorie, low nutrient foods.

We should carry raw vegetables, wheat crackers, a half sandwich (peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat is excellent; easy on the jelly), nuts, or even a package of cheese and crackers.

These, along with a glass of water or milk, will keep our blood sugar steady and our moods elevated until time for the next meal. Having a nutritious snack before we begin to feel hungry will prevent our craving for sweets, as well.

It�s a good idea to actually schedule our snacks, halfway between meals and about � hour before bedtime. We must not miss breakfast!

Losing Weight While Eating Six Times A Day

These eating habits are not inconsistent with meal planning for weight loss. Competent dietitians and honest diet doctors know that several smaller meals are more conducive to weight loss than three larger meals, since the body more easily uses the smaller quantities of food, and is less likely to store it as fat. Properly planned meals will contribute to our health, energy and feelings of well-being, and make it easier for us to engage in exercise, (the real secret to weight control.) Our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate fruits and berries during the day, and gorged on game when they could kill something. Metabolically, we aren�t very far from those folks. The big difference between us and them?

Exercise

Exercise helps our bodies to rebuild themselves and maintain proper functioning. It also helps control our metabolism and prevent unnecessary weight gain. (Weight gain due to increased muscle mass may precede any loss due to burning fat.) Exercise produces chemicals in our brains that act as natural tranquilizers and relieve pain, anxiety and tension. It greatly improves our chances of getting a good night�s sleep.

Our ancestors lived together in small tribes of no more than twenty or so adults and a few children. They walked from place to place, following the food supply, eating whatever they could find. They carried everything they owned with them.

This lifestyle, during the eons preceding the beginnings of agriculture, is the lifestyle for which our bodies are best suited. Humans�like the herds we have followed since the beginning of our history�walk.

So, how much should we walk? Simple. We should walk fast enough and far enough to work up a sweat, and continue walking for at least 20 minutes thereafter, followed by a slower cool-down of 5 to 10 minutes. We should do that at least three times a week�preferably every other day.

We can walk at the mall; walk to the store; walk to the park. We can walk with a friend. When we�re walking we can chat, unlike most other forms of exercise. All we need is decent shoes and, if we�re over 50 or under a doctor�s care, our physician�s permission. And while we do it, we�re continuing a tradition that goes back thousands of years. How about that, sports fans?

Relaxation = stress reduction

Playing and relaxation are absolutely essential to a successful recovery.

Playing is not so much what we do as how we do it. Playing is having fun, laughing, and being childlike and free. Playing is not working at preparing for a marathon, participating in competitive sports at which we �must� win, or taking chess lessons. Of the 37 definitions I quickly scanned, perhaps the one that best describes it is �participating in an activity for amusement.� If it isn�t fun�if we have to work at it�it isn�t play.

Other ways of relaxing include bubble baths, our walk (by ourselves or with a friend), a massage, a swim, and watching children and animals at play. Whatever we do, if we don�t feel better after doing it, it was the wrong choice.

Meditation

Meditation is part of the 11th Step: �Sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with god, as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out.�

Regardless of how we feel about god, we need to meditate. We need to learn to calm our minds, and to allow our subconscious to help us solve problems by serving up whatever it may have processed during the rest of the day. The only way to do that is to meditate in one form or another.

Think that�s too hard to learn? You already do it. Daydreaming is meditation. All we need to do is apply the skills we already know, whenever we want to.

One of the best relaxation exercises is also one the simplest. We find a comfortable sitting position. We move our bodies until our weight is centered, so that we can nearly go limp without changing position. We begin counting our breaths in our mind. We count up to ten, and then start over. We think only about breathing. In comes the fresh air and we�relax�and breathe the tension out. If other thoughts come in, we don�t fight them, we just recognize that they are there, and go back to counting breaths, always silently.

This is one of the oldest and most-used relaxation techniques in the world. It goes back at least 3500 years. We can do it for five minutes, then ten, working up to thirty minutes or more. It might be a good idea to set an alarm, in case we fall asleep sitting up. It happens.

Spirituality

Spirituality is an active relationship with a power greater than us, which gives our lives meaning and purpose. When we work a spiritual program, we consciously try to become a part of something bigger, greater and more powerful than we are, whether that be a 12-step group, our family, other humans generally, or that �god as we understood him.�

Trust in a higher power gives us a peace of mind and serenity that comes from awareness that there is something that is not restricted by our own weaknesses and limitations. Through spiritual development, we develop new confidence in our own abilities and develop a sense of hope. Through a spiritual program we can reach toward the future with hope and a positive attitude.

Spiritual discipline is uncomfortable for many recovering people.

We have lived lives of immediate gratification, and discipline is the reverse of that. Many of us have trouble with the concept of a higher power, as well. We may have been brought up as atheists or agnostics. Perhaps the god of our childhood was a vengeful god whom we cannot even begin to contemplate in the light of some of our past behavior.

This is why we say that our higher power can be god, as we understand god, or our recovery group, or the great outdoors � whatever. Recognizing a higher power is simply admitting that we aren�t perfect and don�t know everything. We let all those grandiose feelings go, substituting a bit of humility instead, and becoming willing to listen to the ideas and advice of others. In a sense, it is not so much recognizing the presence of a god as it is the realization that we aren�t one.

Spiritual discipline should always include meditation, fellowship, and regular inventory of spiritual growth. It is about our relationship with the human spirit. It is not about someone else�s idea of a relationship we should have with a god. That is religion. While religion may be an important part of our recovery, it cannot take the place of spirituality.

In working on our spirituality, it is important that we use the principles of our 12-step programs. They provide guidelines for �increasing our conscious contact with god� (as we understand god). We do not have to have any particular image of, or belief in, a god to increase our conscious contact. We have only to be willing to recognize the possibility of a �higher� power, � be willing to experiment at listening, and opening ourselves up to others and their ideas.

Many people joke about having a tree as your higher power. The writer had that sort of relationship with a majestic Casurina tree for some time. He used it to remind himself that he was not nearly as good at taking care of himself�yet�as that beautiful tree. Did it work? Who knows? At the time of this writing, he is 20 years clean and sober. Something did.

Peace and Contemplation

It is important that we structure our lives in such a way as to spend time alone each day. We need to examine our values, and look within ourselves to determine whether our lives are in harmony with those values. Perhaps we can combine this with our meditation, contemplating life issues and then meditating to let our subconscious come up with some answers.

Journaling

We strongly recommend keeping a journal, and writing in it every day without fail�even if we only write the date. Forcing ourselves to organize our thoughts and put them on paper clears our minds. Reading what we wrote some years later can be highly instructive, and lets us see how we have grown in our recovery.

Balanced Living�the aim of recovery

Balanced living means that we are healthy physically and psychologically, and that we have healthy relationships with others and, more importantly, with ourselves. It means that we are spiritually whole. It means that we are no longer focused on just one aspect of our lives. That is no longer necessary. It means we are living responsibly, giving ourselves time for our jobs, our families, our friends, and time for our own growth and recovery. It means allowing a higher power to work in our lives, even if that is only the influence of people around us. With balanced living, we addicts and alcoholics give up immediate gratification as a lifestyle, in order to attain fulfilling and meaningful lives.

It means a balance between work and play, between fulfilling our responsibilities to other people and our own need for self-fulfillment. It means functioning at our optimum stress level: maintaining enough stress to keep us functioning in a healthy way, but not overloading ourselves so that it becomes a problem.

Stress, in and of itself, is not necessarily bad. It can be the tension that keeps life interesting. But stress is unsafe for us until our new found ways of dealing with it are second nature. Until then, when it arises we run the risk of returning to our old ways of stress management.

Balanced living requires loving ourselves and taking care of ourselves. Nutrition, rest and exercise all receive the proper focus in our lives to provide energy, manage stress, allow freedom from illness and pain, fight fatigue, and rebuild our damaged bodies.

If we are under a physician�s care, and have been told to take certain medications, we do so. We do not stop taking them without consulting the physician. We communicate with our physicians regarding the effects that we perceive, the ways that we feel, and function as partners with her/him in our own treatment. We do not take the advice of amateurs, in the rooms of recovery or out of them, in place of the counsel of doctors with twenty-plus years of education. That�s just plain dumb. However�

We always tell our health providers that we are in recovery, and always double-check their suggestions regarding medications with a person knowledgeable about their effects on recovering people. Doctors are not pharmacists. They do not have time to study drugs and the details of their action. A good relationship with a pharmacist has saved the butt of many an addict/alcoholic.

Summary

Freedom from physical distress allows psychological growth. When we feel good, it is easier to do the work we need to do, eliminate denial, guilt and anger, and move on to self-confidence, self-esteem and learning to feel good about ourselves.

Balanced living requires a strong social network that nurtures us and encourages a healthy, recovery-oriented lifestyle. This network provides a sense of belonging. It includes relationships in which we are a valuable part of a whole: immediate family members, friends, relatives, co-workers, counselors, therapists, employers, 12-step group members, and sponsors.

Recovery is not about quitting alcohol and drugs. It is about learning to live a life that does not require mood-altering chemicals to be worth living.
___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Best Of / How to Calm Your Nerves in Just One Minute

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:42 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:42 pm

How to Calm Your Nerves in Just One Minute

By Try this exercise twice a day to maintain your cool
By Judi Bar - March 25, 2013

Calm Your Nerves with This One-Minute Exercise

When you lie down to go to sleep after a busy day, do you ever notice that you take a deep, long breath and let it out with a sigh? That�s a great example of a belly breath (fully using your diaphragm). Although it sounds simple to take a deep, cleansing breath, there are many reasons why we don�t or can�t breathe that deeply.

A few examples of why we may not be belly breathing on a regular basis: We�ve got a stomach full of food; we�re wearing tight pants; we�re trying to hold our gut in; we�re simply too stressed during the day. These reasons, and more, give us tightness in our belly -- that feeling that doesn�t allow our diaphragm to move easily, and doesn�t support or allow for deeper, efficient breaths. A simple exercise can take care of that though:

Belly Breathing Exercise

Step 1: Try to breathe in and out of your nose; it filters, warms and moisturizes the air.

Step 2: Lie down and make yourself comfortable. Slowly start to relax the muscles in your legs, hips, belly, chest, arms and neck.

Step 3: Start to bring attention to your breath, feeling yourself relax from the inside out. As you relax, inhale and allow your belly to rise; then slowly exhale and allow your belly to fall.

Practice belly breathing twice a day (about 10 breaths each time) for a week or so. Then build up to consciously practicing it more often. It should become second nature with practice.

The Benefits of Breathing Deeply

Breathing this way can help bring better focus and clarity by bridging your mind and body. It can also lower blood pressure and heart and respiratory rates, help to circulate more oxygenated blood throughout your body and release stress.

For more belly breathing and stress-reduction strategies or to read Cleveland Clinic Yoga Therapist Judi Bar's other wellness articles, visit ClevelandClinicWellness.com.
___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120[/quote]

Best Of / Why I must quit weed for good.

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:07 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:07 pm

Re: Why I must quit weed for good.

Author: YacketySax

http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=439928&highlight=#439928

Continued

quote:
YacketySax

Hi NewWings. Thanks for the post! When you said "The real problem is that this struggle is so distracting that I am finding it hard to get anything done. This has been what has led me to relapse the last few times I've tried to quit."

That is exactly how I have been in the past. I almost become obsessed. If im smoking im thinking about quitting, if ive quit I am just sat around thinking about smoking. Its mental torture and almost disabling in the sense that I am in no mind to find myself anything else to do. Though in fairness I have never made it much past a week to ten days. Only once done a month, though that was ages ago, on one of my very first quit attempts and I only messed up then by thinking I had it under control and could smoke once a week. Thankfuly lots of people post there stories on here, and it seems if you can make it past that initial period, those first few weeks, then it can take more of a back seat, and become less of an obsession, and then allow you to move on. Thats my plan anyway!!

Hi wakinglife! Good to see you are still around. I read through a whole load of your posts the other day, mainly on the 'what day are you on thread', and followed through your thoughts as you progressed from a few weeks in to getting a year under your belt. That was a massive help, as have been plenty of your other postings.

I hear what you say about finding something to fill my time with. I know I must do that in order to move on, and when I have been sat there smoking in the past I have wrote a huge list of things i would be better off spending my time doing.

The problem has been when it comes down to it, the motivation just hasnt been there. I am aware this time that i have to work on this, that it wont just happen magically. I can think of plenty of things id like to do, and to be fair, there have been signs of those things creeping in. For example, I have done a bit of reading this week, and also a bit of exercise. Not enough to distract me completely, but it is a start. I have always found these initial first days and weeks hard, though am prepared to try and work through it this time. In a way I think I may have come up with too many things to do! There are so many things that i should be doing with my time that I just dont know where to start and take the easy way out, killing the time by smoking!

Im not going to do that this time. Im in it for the long run. I need to go and have a look what it looks like on the other side. The side which I have often read about, but never actually visited, the many months sober side!

I am too scared to try and moderate for fear of relapse. I know one smoke is a big deal, and ruins everything. And I am too scared to go and buy myself a decent bit of weed because I know it will not be finished before the chest pains, grogginess, coughing, spluttering, smoking all day whenever possible, and bad things that make me want to quit come back.

So for now i am stuck here, racking up the days, but at the same time trying to make them a bit more productive, and try to distance myself from the constant mind games of not smoking.

Good luck to all!

quote:
YacketySax

Into the evening of day 10 and if im being honest im feeling pretty awful. Its only half six and I feel tired, yet I have no reason to be tired as i've done nothing all day.

My mind is all over the place, im up and down like a yoyo. Weed is pretty much on my thoughts constantly. I go from moments of elation, thinking ive got it cracked, thinking that i will never smoke again, to moments of extreme sadness and grumpiness, just being fed up and wanting to smoke.

On the whole i've been very negative. In a way I just want a bag of weed to smoke and a big spliff, right now. It seems so appealing, though five minutes later, im thinking that i cant do that. Because I know I will regret it. I know I will have to quit again, then once again go through all of this.

It just seems like I cant win right now. I want to smoke, but know that if I do so I will be feeling awful, feeling like a failure again, feeling like a drug addict, so I cant. But by not smoking it isnt feeling as if I am winning. I am incredibly lethargic, unmotivated, mind is racing with extremely irrational thoughts. I seem to have two options at the moment, smoke or not smoke, and both seem like losers.

Right thats said. I could have come on and typed an update in twenty minuted time, or twenty minutes ago even, that would be the complete opposite if what I have just written! That is how up and down I am feeling today.

Basically im not giving myself a chance here. I know what I have to do. I need to exercise more, keep busy, and try and calm my mind down. I really want to start doing some meditation, just quieting all this endless chit chat that is going on in my mind. Ive been reading up about it, and it sounds exactly what I need, but i've not done any.

A new week starts tomorrow. I hope this gets easier, I just want my mind to clear, it's gone into overdrive these last few days and its driving me crazy, though I must see that I have a part to play in this. I want to get to that month marker, prove that I can do it again, beat my previous best, but I dont want to do it like this. I want to feel as if I have won, I dont want to beat my previous best, stay away from smoking, but come out of it feeling twenty times worst, unmotivated and more confused than when I started.

Im just hoping its a case of things getting worst before they start to get better.

quote:
porl

Yackety, please try to hang in there. I've reached my day 7 today and am feeling kind of similar. The thing is, we're sober. I know that's cold comfort when the weed is constantly on your mind. (I so nearly caved today it wasn't funny. I was in the garden and somewhere close by someone was smoking and I got an almighty whiff. I kept repeating though that I am NOT going through those first few days again)

Are you feeling any benefit at all yet?
I must admit there are certain times of the day where my mind is simply saying, smoke-smoke-smoke-smoke and I'm finding that very difficult at the moment.
I'm becoming bullish though. I said in a previous post that weed is now the enemy... it's simply not going to beat me no matter how much I tear my hair out. I refuse to believe these feelings of longing and craving will go on forever. There will come a point where we are completely free. There is a battle ahead but I'm determined to face it head on.

You know you will regret it if you spark up. You know that once the initial euphoria wears off all the guilt will return.

I suppose I'm fortunate at the moment that I'm not working. I'm also feeling terribly lethargic so I simply go to bed and read a bit. My motivation is slowly returning but it seems like one step forward two steps back. However anything I achieve during the day I look upon as a bonus.

hang in there. I wish I could help more. I'll keep going with the words of encouragement though. Your initial post helped me immensley. Just keep re-iterating to yourself that you can do it.

Be strong.

quote:
YacketySax

Hi Porl,

Thanks a lot for the post, it really helps. Im still going. I nearly blew it. Ive just been out. My mate went out to score, I was seriously thinking about buying some, though luckily there was only what he had ordered available. He asked if I wanted to leave the money with him and pick it up tomorrow, but I declined. Deep down I was hoping that there wouldnt be any around. I was then offered a bit of his to take home with me, a few joints worth, but again I declined, I just cant blow it this time for the sake of a couple of smokes.

I tried explaining to my friends how I am feeling, though it just couldnt explain it right. Not like I can on here. I tried explaining some of the things that I type on here, but it just came across wrong in person. It sounded wrong to myself, almost as if I was being a bit of a drama queen, making a fuss over nothing!

Another friend was a big help. He encouraged me to keep on as I am, and said to me, "if you start smoking again now, just smoke it, and dont ever mention quitting again!". And he is right. I am always on at him how I am going to quit, how I cant do it anymore, how it is messing up my chest and lungs, then go and relapse.

My head is a lot clearer now than it was a few hours ago though. This has to be it. Moderation is just not an option. If I could go back to being a smoker and actually enjoy it, then I would, but I cant.

I will not be able to enjoy it again even if I wanted to. I need to quit. I know why I must quit. And I must get rid of all these silly reasons for why I should start again. I havent been enjoying it properly for the last three or four years. Its had its moments, i've had the odd enjoyable high. Though on the whole ive hated it. Hated the physical effects of smoking, and hated the useless state that smoking it left me in, and most of all hated being on this quit/relapse roundabout. Two ways to break the cycle, smoke and never quit or quit and never smoke. Its obvious which option I have to take.

Its time for me to leave weed behind. I know that now, its destroying me when I smoke it, destroying me when I dont. I dont want it in my lungs, and im fed up of having it constantly on my mind.

Ive quit smoking it. Now its time to quit obsessing about it.

Thanks again for the encouragement. Keep up the fight, be strong!

quote:
wakinglife

quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by YacketySax
Moderation is just not an option.

Its time for me to leave weed behind.

Ive quit smoking it. Now its time to quit obsessing about it.
________________________________________

Bravo!

quote:
HDog455

Hey YacketySax,

Like I've said many times, I'm not a believer in casual or occasional smoking because, if you have a strong habit, you will always crave the pot when you're on a "quit" campaign. I've also related, in previous posts, my quitting experience after a 30 year daily habit and, after approximately seven months totally straight, I can honestly say that I'm fully over it.

Also, try not to think in terms of achieving a personal best, you need to focus on a totally drug free future. It won't really help to give up for say, three months, and then get back on it - you will only feel worse about yourself and won't really be proud of the fact that you gave up for that period of time. But hey, you already know all of this so I'm preaching to the converted.

With me, I had to totally cut myself off from the lifestyle and that meant cutting off contact with a couple of friends. There was always going to be a downside but I now know the upside is that I'm now free of the mill-stone that was dragging me under. Those former friends have got other people to smoke with and pot was really the only thing we had in common anyway.

Keep up the good work mate - and look forward to the day when your phlegm is no longer full of tar and other rubbish

quote:
tommo637

Good job on 2 weeks. But most importantly i admire that you gave such an honest recount of everything and posted openly about your slip up. When I was stopping it took failed attempt after failed attempt before I finally left it. I posted a couple of failures on here but most times i was too embarrassed. My last smoke was just another crappy night with the same loser friends smoking the same crap in the same filthy bong and feeling exactly how i had the previous 100 times this had occured, like sh*t.

I read Wakinglifes advice about not worrying about one last hurrah, and after much soulsearching, rough nights and withdrawals I have reached day 32 and i KNOW I will not go back. Documenting a failed attempt takes guts, but it also shows you are serious about this and are going to get there no matter what. I can't wait for your post in a month or so with a positive and inspirational account of your 30 days, good luck mate

To Be Continued

_____________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Best Of / Why I must quit weed for good.

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:07 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Why I must quit weed for good.

Author: YacketySax

http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=439928&highlight=#439928

Continued

quote:
YacketySax

Well I have completed my first three days and have now woken up to the start of day four. The first three were weekend days, days where I would smoke more than any others, so it is good to have those out of the way first.

I have spent two of the days out, both times with weed available and being smoked in front of me, and one day at home alone. To be honest it was the day alone I found the hardest. When it was being smoked in front of me I felt no real urges.

I didnt want to borrow any, or just take a few drags. I have it well in my head now that just one puff will lead to full blown smoking again. So I dont even think of it as having just that one. I ask myself 'do I want to start smoking all day every day and have to quit again?', rather than 'do I just want to smoke this one joint'. And find it much easier to say no to the first question.

The day alone, which was day two was tougher though. The loneliness and boredom crept in. They would usually be the days I would relish smoking, no one to disturb me, no one to bother me or talk to me. Just smoke the day away.

I had an almost identical day to the saturday before. I watched a bit of telly, cooked a bit of food, did a few little jobs,went out in the garden for a bit, nothing serious, just coasted through the day. The difference being the saturday before, in between each little job or 'busy' time, I skinned up and smoked. I filled the time between doing things with being stoned. This saturday i didnt, I filled it with nothing, just thinking about being stoned.

That was it, two identical days. The only difference being eight to ten spliffs, smoked throughout the day, therefore killing time in between. That is all I have been doing, killing time. Yet when the time isnt killed I feel strange, like something is wrong. Lonely perhaps, almost certainly bored. Nothing has changed except my state of mind, everything else had stayed the same.

I guess this is just purely out of habit. And with some effort on my part, and the natural healing power of time, I can move on, start forgetting about being stoned all the time, and just get on with whatever it is that I want to do.

That has been the most difficult part of the first three days. Been getting up early and exercising so in truth sleep hasnt been too bad. On the plus side, going out, interacting with other people, looking people in the eye, and generally not having anything to worry about or hide has been great. Life is just so much easier when i havent put myself in that strange paranoid state. Its just the alone time, when it doesnt matter what state I am in that I need to work on.

It seems to get harder as the day goes on. Quitting seems to go like this for me, wake up, feel great about having quit another day, feel good right through from morning to afternoon, dont think that there will ever be any chance of smoking again, though after tea enthusiasm starts to drop, the later the night gets the more triggers and stronger the thoughts about smoking get, until by the end of the night I just want to sleep so the day has ended.

This probably happens as I used to smoke more at nights. Whilst I would smoke in the day sometimes, I would always smoke at night, so my brain associates evening/night time with smoking more than anything else. The challenge I guess is to still be feeling as positive at bedtime as i am when I awaken.

My plan for the week ahead is just to try and keep busy. Keep getting up early, keep exercising, but to try and do some things in free time. Do some of those things that I have always said I would when quitting. Try not to just mope around in mourning, that is my challenge for this week!!

quote:
splash

yackety... thank you so much for posting all your honest thoughts on quitting. i can identify with much of it, which makes me feel good because it makes me feel less crazy to hear it in someone else's words. moreover, my husband is trying to quit right now and i think that hearing how much of a daily struggle it is for you, which it seems to be for him, helps me to understand what he is not yet able to verbalize.

i hope you can keep it up, and keep posting about it too. it's incredibly therapeutic for me to read, and i imagine it's also good for you to get it out. i love your style of writing - maybe you could write a book in all of your uninterrupted alone time.

quote:
YacketySax

Into the evening time of my fifth day and I am finding it tough.

This is where abouts I usually get before a relapse, 5-10 days. And I can see why. The determination of the first few days has gone, smoking seems pretty insignificant again. Where as on the friday which was day one, it seemed like the worst thing in the world, i smoked it on the thursday until I was almost sick. I knew I had to quit, had the bad chest and foggy head to get rid of, wrote a long post which was the result of weeks of thinking, and was fully fired up.

Part of the problem is that most of the time I spend gearing myself up to quit, I am stoned. I am smoking in that comfort zone, knowing that I am about to quit. It seems to be one of the few times I can actually enjoy my smoking of late, when I am heading towards a quit date, as it is kind of like a last goodbye.

In that time I do a lot of stoned thinking, as to why I must quit and why it is no good for me anymore. Though as with all my stoned thoughts, the reality isnt anywhere how I was imagining it when in a smokey daze.

When lying in bed stoned at night I would nearly always think about how a clean living lifestyle would suit me. About five to eight years ago I would be lying there stoned, thinking mainly about how I could further my career and get on in life, thinking of all these wonderful ideas, and things that I could do to make money and live happily ever after. Of course, these were just stoned thoughts, some may have had some mileage, though I never did anything about them. It would always be something along the lines of 'starting from tomorrow i shall do x, y and z etc etc'. It always seemed like I was having revolutionary ground breaking thoughts, but when sober the next morning I would never act upon them, probably because they were unrealistic and daft!

That is how it has been with quitting of late. All the time I have smoked, I have lay there in a daze thinking how I would be healthy, active, filling my spare time with positive activities, and have this permanent warm glow about me when I quit!

Though five days in and I am faced with the reality. I feel really tired, but not able to sleep. Stiff from just sitting and doing nothing, wasting away too much time sat at my desk on my computer. I feel unmotivated, possibly worst than before, lethargic, lackluster, and just, well, at a loose end. That is probably the best way I can describe it. Bored and at a loose end.

Though where as I would usually be looking to get hold of some weed at this point, I dont feel im in any danger of a relapse. Because now I dont want to go and get a few joints worth to have a few smokes and see me through the night and to bed. I really dont want that as it is pointless. I wont get that stoned, I will become hugely frustrated when it runs out and want more, and will have broken this little run I have going. I really dont want to have just a little smoke. Where as that would be reasoning for a relapse, 'just that one wont hurt', I know it will, and just simply cannot justify a little smoke.

This sounds stupid, but a big smoke I can justify more. Going a buying a big bag seems better than just having a few smokes. At least I will be able to get properly stoned off it, and it wont run out so quickly, so I wont get any frustration, and any bad feelings about ending the run can be smoked away.

But I dont want to do that either! Because I know if I buy a big bag of weed, that I wont be able to smoke half of it before I am desperate to get rid and start another big long thread, about why I can never smoke again. Because from experience, and reading back through my old threads, that is what will happen. Its a racing certainty! I will not be able to finish a bag of weed without it being 'the last ever one', 'one final smoke' etc etc.

So I guess im kind of stuck! Not feeling that great at the moment. A little bit of a smoke wont be enough, and buying an eighth or quarter or something will be too much, and I will just feel silly when I start my next big quit in a few days time!!

To be fair I knew this would happen. Been getting to sleep ok, but it has been interrupted sleep, waking in the night a few times, and that is probably why I feel so tired and at a loose end. And also, ive not really been exercising as I should. Ive been a bit down and lethargic, and just moped around, so its hardly a surprise im feeling like this.

Ive often caved in around here, but im not doing this time. My previous best was a month, January, a 31 day month, just as August is, and im going to beat that. Im going to get a personal best out of this, so I may as well enjoy it whilst I am. Stop the moping about, get exercising, get breathing properly, a bit of stretching, meditation, start sleeping better, and start being a bit more positive. I have it fixed in my mind that I cannot smoke, Im going to improve on my record, and im going to do it with a smile on my face!!

Glad Ive got that off my chest!! (along with all the rubbish ive been coughing up today!)

quote:
thesecondcoming

It is remarkable how similar our situations are. From the insane guilt/paranoia right up to the amount of time it usually takes us to relapse after deciding to quit. I have been a floater on this forum for a few months now. I have been lured by the thought of moderation but that never held up.

It's a vicious cycle, it's treacherous. I had a big spill out of my doubts about quitting in my thread called "It's Time" Like you, I also decided to quit last night when I was high. You are five days in, why not make it six? Living life in the constant thought of marijuana is just crippling, it stunts you and makes you a drug addict. No excuses. I love weed, the feeling, everything. But I know that moderation doesn't exist with me in that world. Don't even think about it man, look at how much you've written, look at how much you've learned even through a few days of sobriety. Personally I can't wait to go into September with a clear mind. Until then, forget your one month personal best. You obviously relapsed then and the facts surrounding that quit period led you to smoke again. Day by day, the month will go by like nothing. You've let a lot of people know how badly you want this...I really think you mean it.

quote:
YacketySax

Hi thesecondcoming. Thanks for the encouragement, i wish you well with your own quit.

7 days and 7 nights completed.

Well its a week since i first wrote my quit post. Last friday morning I got up and typed that big long opening post, with thoughts of the heavy goodbye smoke the day before fresh in my mind.

I had been building up to August 1st as a quit date from mid July. So I had been smoking as much as I liked, in that comfort zone, knowing that I would be quitting soon. I spent most of my time looking forward to the quit day, thinking how all this would soon be over, thinking about what I had to look forward to, and what I was finally leaving behind.

A lot of that time I was stoned though, and what I realise now is that stoned thinking is just not worth the cigarette paper it is rolled up in! Whatever you are thinking about when stoned, however you are planning to change your life, make things better or whatever, its just silly unrealistic stoned thinking!

I mean dont get me wrong, I knew over these last few years, and these last couple of weeks building up to the quit date that I needed to stop smoking. I wasnt stoned all the time when I was thinking that. I would wake up in the morning sober, and know that I can not do this forever. I knew the damage I was doing to my lungs, and knew I wanted rid of that groggy stoned feeling, the unhealthy look and most of all to get off the quit/relapse roundabout.

But its the way I was imagining it when stoned that was wrong and silly. It all seemed so easy thinking about it. That i would just quit, and suddenly become productive, healthy, wiser, wealthier and just carry on my life never thinking about it, almost as if those years of smoking never happened. Though I know that to be untrue, its much harder than that!

After the initial 'im gonna quit for good' buzz wore off it became difficult. There have been benefits. I wake up feeling great. I feel great now. Though the longer the day goes on, the harder it gets, and from 6pm onwards, once i've finished my evening meal it gets very tough. I spend as much time thinking about smoking in those hours as I used to spend stoned, thinking about quitting when I was smoking!

What is keeping me going this time though is reading through all my old attempts. I think I am beginning to learn. The 'just one little smoke wont hurt' thinking has gone. I just dont want to ruin this run for the sake of a couple of smokes, it just isnt worth it. I can almost feel what it is like to finish that spliff without even having to smoke it. I know that as soon as I put it out, i will be feeling regret and guilt. I got offered a little bit last night. Asked if I wanted to borrow a few smokes worth. It wasnt somebody trying to 'break me'. They were just being nice. I had mentioned that I was quitting, though i've said it so many times before, that I have become like the boy who cried wolf, its just not taken seriously! But I declined, and though I was extremely tempted at the time, Im glad this morning that I did. As though a little smoke in a week probably isnt a big deal, i would be feeling terrible right now, and would be writing about a relapse and trying to explain why.

So i'm not going to relapse like that again. Buying a decent bit and having a good smoke appeals more. Though I just cant do it. Because I know, can almost guarantee, that I wont be able to finish off the bag without wanting to get rid of it all quickly so that I can quit for good. Thats the roundabout im trying to get off. That is the cycle I am trying to break.

I'll be honest im missing it, especially at nights. But I think im just missing the routine more than anything. I can do stuff in the day, motivation is slowly creeping back, but evening/night time has been very unproductive.

All in all though, its only been a week. Just one week. And im not ready for a relapse yet. Im going to take this further. Its the weekend again which is going to be tough. Being the weekend is just one huge trigger in itself. Got through last weekend easily enough as I was fully fired up. This one may be tougher, though I will see it through. Then it will soon be friday again and I will be at the two week marker.

Will update this when necessary. Though am going to try and move on a bit more this week. Week one has been quite tough, though that is to be expected, nobody finds week one easy. Will try to spend less time in mourning, less time thinking about what i was doing 'this time last week' etc. Thinking about old smoking times like they were the happiest days of my life, which they werent! They were spent thinking about how I cant wait to quit weed, something which I keep forgetting!

Anyhow, I've rambled there. A lot!

Summary: One week done. Feeling better, sharper, more confident, everyday life seems easier! Evening/night times tough. Sleep up and down, odd sweaty sleepless night. Have healthier look about me. Lots of cravings/triggers, but able to see through them!

quote:
NewWings

As I sit here and type I'm debating with myself. Part of me is ready to quit weed...the other part of me is considering a ride to my firend's house to score some weed. It's a real battle.

The part of me that wants to quit is rational, realizing that keeping on the pot road will do me no good, will probably kill me. This side of me knows all the reasons to stop, but can't win the battle without some suffering and sacrifice.

The other part is desperately craving a toke. It sees the relief in the sweet smelling herb. In moments all the unpleasant feelings, all the anxiety, all the sad thoughts evaporate. This has been the side that has been winning out.

The real problem is that this struggle is so distracting that I am finding it hard to get anything done. This has been what has led me to relapse the last few times I've tried to quit. I end up giving in to weed so that I can at least muddle through life.

I have to be honest here...I have been out of weed for several days, but twice I scraped resin from an old pipe. I know this is stupid and pitiful, but isn't that what drugs do?

It's Friday morning now, and as I think of going through the weekend without weed I begin to start wondering how I will do it. Without weed, days are so long. Monday seems like a million miles away.

You have captured a lot of my thoughts and feelings. Keep up the fight. We can do it.

quote:
wakinglife

quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by YacketySax
There have been benefits. I wake up feeling great. I feel great now.
________________________________________
Excellent!
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by YacketySax
Though the longer the day goes on, the harder it gets, and from 6pm onwards, once i've finished my evening meal it gets very tough. I spend as much time thinking about smoking in those hours as I used to spend stoned, thinking about quitting when I was smoking!

What is keeping me going this time though is reading through all my old attempts. I think I am beginning to learn. The 'just one little smoke wont hurt' thinking has gone. I just dont want to ruin this run for the sake of a couple of smokes, it just isnt worth it.
________________________________________

It sounds like you have a bit too much free time to think during this early phase (the first month is the toughest, in my opinion). Please consider listing all the possible things you could do, especially during the evenings. I'm not sure how large your city is, or how much cash you have to spare, but here are some ideas: go to a movie, go for coffee/tea with a non-smoking friend, see a show (music or drama), take a walk, rent some good DVDs, watch a TV series you like, take up an evening class (karate, writing, yoga, meditation).

I know you'll find something to keep busy!

Your posts are awesome, so keep that up as part of your recovery!

Best Of / Why I must quit weed for good.

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:58 am

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:58 am

Re: Why I must quit weed for good.

Author: YacketySax

http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=439928&highlight=#439928

quote:
YacketySax

Why I must quit weed for good.

Hi. I've been stuck on this quitting/relapsing/smoking regular/thinking about quitting/hating weed/loving weed/quitting/relapsing roundabout for about three to four years now.

I've been posting on and off on here for just over a year. What annoys me is that when I go back and read through those early posts, is that I could be a year clean now, I could know what it was like. I have no idea how I would be feeling, or what I would be thinking, but I would know. As it happens I am in more or less an identical place to that I was in a year ago.

I have achieved one or two things in that year, but only minor things, things that I would have achieved with or without the smoking. Though the fact is I am sat here, in the same room, at the same desk, on the same computer, in exactly the same state of mind. Obsessing about weed, and wanting it out of my life. Wanting to feel healthier, wanting some self esteem and self respect back, the sort that comes back to you when you set out to achieve something, something that is well within your means, and actually stick to it and see it through.

Ive had a good think about all of this, and over the last few weeks, building up to today, Aug 1st as being my day one, asking myself why I do it, why I dont want to anymore, and why I have continued to go back in the past. The longest I have ever done in the past was 1 month, january 2005, which is now becoming a distant memory.

Why did I ever start?

I started at school when I was 13/14. I had a genuine interest in drugs and getting high and that is what I did. It was all new, mainly a weekend thing, and it went the usual pattern of drinking, smoking, weed, harder drugs etc etc. I was young and had no regrets.

I carried it on after school at 16. By then weed was nothing special. It was an everyday thing. Something I would do every night at least, all weekend, and sometimes before and during work. I never gave much thought to it. Though thinking back, I remember having some terrible paranoid episodes with it at the time. I think it may have been to do with the trips, pills and speed that were being taken at the weekend, and smoking it in the week triggered off some nasty paranoia.

By my early twenties I had left all the other stuff behind. I didnt like the weekend heavy drinking and hard drug lifestyle, it just wasnt for me, and I was happy to just be a smoker, and spent most of my time at smokers houses, drinking now and again, but mainly just smoking. Again I have no regrets, where as a lot of people I knew were quitting then, going out drinking more/settling down in relationships, I was happy to carry on, I preferred the quieter lifestyle.

Then into my late twenties. Im 29 now. And it has been these last four or five years that have become the problem. Numerous quit attempts, and a realisation that this isnt what I want to do. Though I have become trapped.

Since my late twenties I have become a reclusive smoker. Where smoking used to enhance everyday things, it now makes simple everyday life an absolute nightmare. There is very little I can do when i smoke. Where I sometimes feel some slight anxiety when I am out the day after having smoked, basically, if I have havent smoked anything, I am ok to go out and do stuff. But I am all too aware of this. Things like the shops, conversations, looking people in the eye, fear of having to stop and talk to somebody, driving, basically anything that involves other people have become a nightmare when stoned. I can still go out and smoke with stoner friends, but even then, it just doesnt feel right, I get this awkwardness, not knowing where to look. I know this is just a weed thing, as I have very few, if any, problems when leaving it alone.

So now I have these ideal conditions for smoking it. I need to have no need to go out for anything, I need to be on my own, not expecting any phone calls. Basically I have been living with this great big 'do not disturb' sign on my head! And now I dont even know why?

There is no need for me to be stoned anymore. I am so keen to hide it, almost ashamed of it. All I am fit to do is lie there, thinking. Thinking about rubbish, those silly thoughts where you are in a stoned daze, making all these plans in your head, thinking how everything will be great if you just do x,y and z, which you will start doing tomorrow, but of course you never do. Because tomorrow you wake up sober, realise that you spent a night thinking about complete garbage, then go and smoke some more, so you can have some time of more self realisation and planning for the future, or so I think! I can manage to think about rubbish, or watch TV, thats about it. I used to think smoking enhanced watching the telly. But now I realise that is just a myth too. In sober times I laugh just as much at a funny program than in stoned times. Its the program that is making me laugh, not the weed.

tbc.....

quote:
YacketySax

So why must I quit?

I know to quit, you need a reason for doing so. Whilst there are millions of reasons for quitting, over the last few weeks I have come up with the ten biggest reasons for me to quit.

1) To move on. Im just going round in circles now and have been for years. A lot of the stuff I am writing in this post has appeared in numerous other ones that I have made. I need to break this boring and predictable cycle. Its almost as if i know i can quit, but I am just teasing myself, perhaps thinking that if I didnt have my weed to quit, then I could have no other excuses. Holding on to it, just in case things dont work out, then I can always play the 'well things will be ok when I quit weed' card. Covering my bets almost. If things work out for me whilst im smoking, great, but if they dont, well I have that excuse to fall back on. No more. I need to break the cycle.

2) Health. I hate smoking. I dont consider myself a smoker (though probably still have some sort of a tobacco addiction due to mixing). My health is poor. Im very stiff from always sitting and doing little. Brief attempts at getting fit of always ended in failure. Exercise and smoking weed just dont go hand in hand for me. After a bad day, or even a a good day, it is so much easier to skin up a spliff than do some time on a bike, swim, do weights, go for a run etc. But once the spliff is smoked, any chance of exercising later on are out of the window. I want to give my lungs the chance to heal, not smell of smoke, and have that healthy glow back about me, rather than the stoned grey look. Even if I do eat healthy, and get some sort of exercise routine going, as long as I continue to smoke its just taking one step forward, then another two back.

3) Mental health. Clarity of mind. Clear thinking. That feeling where I have nothing to hide. No limits to what I can or cant do today. Freedom to go out and do what I want, think what i want to think, without constantly analysing things, or living life by the rules my stoned self has set in my head.

4) Pursuing other interests. I have plenty. Loads of things interest me. Simple things. Reading, learning, yoga, soccer, fitness, cooking. I have many interests, though they all take a back seat to smoking. I do little more than dabble in and out, yet if i put as much effort into any of these things as i did with my smoking i would do well at them. And would also get some sort of pride back. I would go to bed knowing that the day wasnt wasted trapped in my own stoned thoughts. Many of these things are things to be done on my own anyway. So thats the strange thing, no one else would know! Nobody would have any idea if I was sat in my room meditating and practicing breathing exercises, or if i was sat up there smoking a bong and watching trash on TV. The only person who would know is me. Yet somehow, over the years, I have managed to engrave into my mind that sitting alone in a peaceful healthy state reading a book is a terrible sin, yet lying there in an awkward useless stoned state is an acceptable past time?

5) Time. Time will almost double. No rush to get everything done so I can go into smoking time. I always seem to be racing against the clock, but can never figure out why? I never seem to be doing anything, yet have so little time to do it. This is because once i am stoned, the time is written off. There is nothing I can do then, it is as if the day has ended, and I will have to wait for the next one. And sometimes this can happen very early on, no wonder I never seem to have the time to get anything done.

6) Money. Its getting expensive now to smoke. Green has gone up to a silly price, considering it is probably grown over here, and is often poor quality and sprayed with crap to make it weigh more. Then there is all the lighters, skins and tobacco that comes with it. I can think of plenty of things I would rather be spending the money on.

7)The running out scenario. The panic when the stash is getting low, worrying where the next bag will come from. Then running out. Feeling as if the world has ended, that I may as well not be alive. Having to mither people to get some for me. The shame of ringing up someone, asking how they are, but really only interested in borrowing some of there green, I wont miss doing that at all.

8)Its no fun anymore. I have gone from being a kid hanging out with others, smoking, getting high, giggling, laughing at nothing, smoking too much, throwing a whitey, to being an adult who stays in his room and smokes alone and watches crap on telly, wasting away the hours. I would never have smoked it back then if they were the effects. Im chasing a high that just isnt there anymore. It makes social situations a long drawn out terrifying ordeal, it makes me up tight and anxious, scared to speak, not a giggly fun to be around person, or a laid back hippy type.

9) Its made me reclusive. More so than ever. Its just not doing me any good anymore. If I dont stop now I dont know what i will be like in four or five years time. Making excuses to be alone, just so I can smoke. Pretending to have work to do, just so I can smoke. I cant carry on like that.

10) Achievement. I have this negativity about me at the moment. And it comes from failure. I keep saying I am going to quit, but never do. And it kind of snowballs into other things, and I never see them out either. I want some self respect back. Some pride. I want to achieve something that I said I would. I want to know that i control my mind again, and that my mind doesnt control me, by constantly tricking me back into doing something that I want to leave behind. I want some positivity back, that you get from accomplishing something, then the positivity can snowball into other aspects of my life.

tdc.....

quote:
time_2_change

Brilliant post

You break it all down perfectly. I agree with everything you've written. Sounds to me like its your time to end this destructive cycle.

I'm in the same boat, in that, I recognise/acknoledge the endless negatives of smoking, but still cant leave it behind despite it being over 3yrs since admitted I'm addicted

Best of luck friend
Robbie

quote:
YacketySax

So why have I failed in the past?

There is nothing new on that list, nothing revolutionary, no sudden realisations. They are all valid points, and sound reasons why I must quit. But they have appeared in posts of mine in the past, almost all of them have popped up in different quit threads, or journals that I have kept at home.

Reading them all back just then it seems so obvious that I must quit. But in truth I have rarely made it past 7 or 8 days, often less. In the past year I have had about 12-14 genuine quit attempts. Some I have documented, then after the constant failure it became a bit of a joke, so i stopped documenting it. But each time was genuine, I really meant it, just as I do now, so why have i failed in the past?

These are my main reasons for failing in the past. Most of the reasons are only there because I smoked. It is the years of being in this habit that has led to the problems when trying to quit it. While the smoking is the cause of all these problems, what tends to happen is that it becomes the short term answer to relieving them when they pop up, hence the many failed quit attempts.

1) Boredom. This one has got me plenty of times. I quit, get a few days in, then just find myself sat around with nothing to do. Just bored. Cant face the rubbish I would usually be watching on telly. Dont fancy doing any of those things I always said I would when I quit. I have found that where I have blamed weed for lack of motivation in the past, just quitting it isnt the answer to getting it back. I wont suddenly jump into being a reader or a keen cook, I have to work on it, and work hard. Basically i have spent the last few years doing very little when stoned,mainly at nights, but being in a stoned state, have spent little time noticing how little I am doing, feeling no boredom, and just being glad to have nothing to do as I am so stoned I wouldnt be able to manage it anyway. Once quitting it changes, I am still doing nothing, exactly as I was doing nothing before, but this time I am aware of it, and I dont like it. This is where my mind has run wild before, the smoking side trying to trick me back. Trying to justify it with thoughts like, 'well im sat here doing absolutely nothing anyway, I may as well be stoned'. I need to find other stuff to do, keep busy, give it chance for the stoned thinking to go away. I have caved in way too easily in the past. The first sign of boredom and i have been back out to get a bag.

2) Loneliness. Again this is all my own doing. I have hidden away so I can smoke alone as that is how I preferred it. I have gone out of my way to not get invited to things, and just keep out of the way of any awkward (only awkward when stoned) situations. When stoned I have never noticed this loneliness, am i glad the phone hasnt rung, I am glad to have nowhere to go and nothing to do. But once I quit, then I start to notice. I notice how people dont phone me, no one seems to care how I am, how I wish i had some sort of a relationship, someone to share my life with and to be honest that can get me down. After all that time wanting to be on my own, the things that gets me most, and often leads me back to smoking is being on my own. What I have to get into my head is that it isnt a bad thing to be on my own, and I can use the time for good things, things that I have always wanted to do, personal interests and hobbies, I dont have to sit there mourning, I am allowed to do other things that I enjoy. If I do that, gradually the other side of things, the going out more, the doing things, meeting people etc will snowball. As I will have no reason to hide, I will gradually find myself out more, it will happen gradually and naturally. Im not just going to go from a hideaway stoner to life and soul of the party in a week, and neither would I want to! But for now, I need to get over the loneliness I have created, realise nothing has changed, and spend the time I do find myself alone doing things that I have always wanted to do.

3) Fear of change. Whilst I am obviously not happy with smoking most of the time, at there same time I am in some sort of comfort zone. An uncomfortable comfort zone if you like. I mean I dont cause any trouble, have no enemies, am not aware of anybody hating me, and have never wronged anyone (its pretty hard to when you are stuck inside your room all day!!). But i have this irrational fear, that if i stop smoking, i will suddenly become a bad person. A cocky, arrogant, full of himself person and that friends and family will start to hate me, and I will find myself even lonelier than i am now. I fear losing everything that I have got. It seems like a gamble sometimes. Do I risk this cosy coasting along doing no harm to anyone keeping myself to myself stoner life, for turning into something else?! Its a strange fear, its not so much the fear of failure, more the fear of success.

When I think all that through its crazy. Its just typical paranoid stoner think. Worrying about what everybody else will think of me. Worrying that people wont like me as much if i do something that I have always wanted to do. Its completely irrational, quite how I will suddenly become an arrogant nasty fool who treats all his nearest and dearest likes crap is beyond me. When I read this back in a years time, I really do hope that I am laughing out loud at the ridiculousness of this fear!!!

I am in this for me now. And I want to quit.

4) Habit. When you are a full time smoker it becomes not just a habit, but a lifestyle. The whole day is centred around the smoke at the end of it. Whatever happens during the day doesnt matter if there is weed there at the end of it. It becomes what you are. However much i dont like it, however much i try to hide it, it is just there. Thousands of triggers, going round to friends houses i think of the smoking more than the actual visit, holidays think of smoking on the beach, the summertime remind me of the light nights and smoking outside, the winter reminds me of the dark evenings and the smoking out of my window, or going out on a crisp cold morning for a spliff. Finishing a meal im thinking about a spliff rather than dessert, being angry i think of a spliff to calm me down, being happy i think of a smoke to lift my mood further, a good program to watch means a good spliff to be smoked first. Basically, I have smoked it for so long that almost everything is associated with smoking, and everything is a trigger.

This is just habit, and it will go. Lots of people who come back and post after a long time off weed state how little they actually think about it. This has been the problem for me in the past, for the first week or so, even if I am not smoking it, I am constantly thinking about it. I need to let more time pass, fight the early triggers, and slowly let it drop out of my mind, until i no longer think about it, am no longer trapped, and will then have no desire to go back.

5) False security and the lure of moderation. This has got me many a time. Quit weed, follow a healthy lifestyle, then after a week of so, some of the main reasons for quitting, the bad chest, the grey pale look, feeling lethargic and lousy have all cleared up. In a week, a week of exercise and healthy eating and im feeling great. This has led me to think in the past, 'well one little spliff wont hurt me', seeing it as some kind of a reward, which makes no sense at all. Thinking that i will then go on and do another week, and feel just as good in a weeks time. But it is all mind games. Once your mind has tricked you into having that one, it will get you again, and again, and again, until you have been smoking everyday for the last three weeks and feel like quitting again. Moderation is just a trap, it is possible, but not if you have to force yourself to do it. I can moderate drink, but not weed. I have beer in the fridge that I can drink as and when, it can sit there for weeks and months sometimes. If I have weed in the draw though I smoke it, everyday, whenever possible I smoke it, I cannot moderate.

6) The big deal out of nothing. I can admit to myself that i cannot moderate, i know that it leads back to where I dont want to be. But when i see other people smoking it, seemingly enjoying it, again I start to try and rationalise. Thinking 'whats the big deal'? 'Its only a spliff? Why am i making out I am some sort of drug addict who cant ever touch the stuff again for fear of relapse?'. Again this is just mind games, another trick of the mind to get me back into smoking again. All it needs to do is get me to smoke one, and then it has won.

The fact is, to me, it is a big deal. To others it is probably nothing. But I know, if I smoke, sooner or later, I will be back smoking regularly, and i dont even like it. It will just put me back into full time smoking. I dont have to go round constantly telling everyone in public about my battle, or make out to everyone that I can never touch it again. I just have to know it in my own mind, that to me personally, a little bit on a spliff is a big deal.

7) Nicotine addiction. I consider myself a non smoker who quit cigarettes over ten years ago. But in truth am i still as much as a smoker as I ever was. Just because there is weed in there too, doesnt mean the tobacco will go away and have no effects. This is why it is important to never try to moderate, and another reason why I cant moderate. I am still harboring some sort of a tobacco addiction, and whilst cannabis isnt physically addictive, nicotine is. So once I try to have that 'just one spilff', I am once again triggering my niccotine addiction, and am fighting two addictions at once. Once my body gets a taste of it again, it wants more. Sometimes I wonder if I am just fighting a nicotine addiction.

The boredom/loneliness/habbit and triggers lead me back to the weed, the weed leads me to the nicotine, then the whole thing starts again and im back smoking regularly.

tbc......

quote:
YacketySax

Well thats it. Thats why I must quit, and why I have failed in the past. I apologise for the long thread. Some may wish to read it, I have got plenty of encouragement from reading and following the stories of others in the same boat from around the world, though it is very long, and I wouldnt expect everybody to! I have followed lots of stories in the past, and they all help. Its great when old timers come back and post about the benefits, that is what I intend to do now.

Basically its there as a point of reference for myself. A starting point. That is pretty much where I am, and what I am feeling right now, on August 1st 2008. And that is where this forum is great,coming back, reading your thoughts, seeing how you felt at different stages. Reading all my old threads back made me realise that I have to change, it has also helped in making my realise why i havent been able to do so, and what needs to be done differently to succeed this time round.

I know now that it isnt just a case of stop somking and everything will be wonderful. I know it takes hard work, and plenty of re-wiring of the way i think, getting into good healthy habits, and then just let time work its magic. I know if i just sit here doing nothing, feeling sorry for myself then i will be back smoking.

I intend to update as and when, for myself, and for others who are in a similar boat. And that is another great thing about the forum. Reading about people going through similar situations. As amongst friends, it is hard to admit to feeling like this. Few people ever admit to not liking smoking. Its kind of a hidden rule. If you smoke it, you have to go along with the line that smoking is great. Even people I knew that quit, never really admitted that it was bothering them, holding them back, affecting there lives in a negative way, they just quit.

Here, when you are anonymous, you can write how weed truly makes you feel, and seeing so many people with similar stories to tell makes me realise that I am not making a big deal or kicking up a fuss over nothing, that I am not alone, and that I can kick what is now nothing more than a bad habit.

quote:
YacketySax

Hi time_2_change,

Thanks for the post. Good luck for when you decide to quit. I think i am ready now . In truth I have been ready to quit for years, but one thing or another has always dragged me back.

One thing i do realise now, is that once the thoughts of quitting start creeping in, they never go away again.

All the best!

quote:
YacketySax

Glad you are quitting too, I wish you all the best on doing so.

I know exactly the kind of high you describe. The guilty paranoid one. That is what it has been like for me for the last few years. Even after the first five years of smoking when I was still doing it, despite not getting that buzz that you get when you first start out smoking, the one that never comes back, I never used to get any guilt.

More recently though, as soon as i finish a spliff I am hit with a guilt instead of a relaxing high, the only way to get rid of the initial guilt had been to carry on smoking. Its cazy when you put it in words and read it back! The answer is so obvious, dont smoke!!

Did my day one yesterday. Wasnt too hard as i was obviously pretty fired up to complete it having wrote all that yesterday. Trying to make a point of getting up as early as possible, and getting some exercise in for the first few days, try to avoid the sleepless sweaty nights as best as possible. Just want to get a few days under my belt for now, I can start working on everything else after, just want to get the run going first!

Best Of: The Secrets of Quitting Marijuana!

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:47 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:47 pm

The Secrets of Quitting Marijuana!

By Peter Hill

If you are a marijuana smoker and you want to learn the secret of quitting, then this article is for you. There are a number of simple things your need to know and use in order to quit pot naturally and easily, without cravings. From what things you will need to throw away, some ways you will have to distract yourself, why you will need plenty of rest and why it will be important to stay away from other smokers. This article's purpose is to bring you up to speed on the basics of overcoming the weed abuse.

To quit marijuana, it is important that you make the decision to quit, and along with that taking some action toward your goal. The first action you will have to take it to throw away all your paraphernalia. You will have to throw away all of your lighters, ash trays, bongs, pipes, papers, busters and rolling machines. When you get rid of all of your instruments of pot smoking, the temptation is reduced and it will make it harder to smoke again. Taking this sort of action is one of the best first steps of overcoming the weed habit. Once you have done this, it will be much easier to take the next step.

Since your body has become accustomed to smoking marijuana, you will have to plan out some simple but effective distractions for yourself. Since stopping pot is somewhat of a dramatic change to your daily activities, you will find that you now have some extra time on your hands. It is critical that you have some new things that you want to do, have, or be to replace your former weed smoking periods. If you usually smoke after a meal or after work or school, then you could plan to-do something like work on project, a game, go for a walk, read a book, ride your bike, etc. Anything physical will be extremely helpful in resetting your bodies natural system of feeling good. Anything that helps distract you is a good thing, but it's not just what you do, it is who you spend your time with.

The people you spend your free time with become your personal reference group, whether you realize it or not. You will have to stay away from other marijuana smokers, especially at the initial time that you start to quit. Your pot smoking buddies will definitely not be to happy to know that you intent to quit because they will miss your company and you will also remind them of their own weakness with regards to smoking weed. With out a doubt they will attempt to pull you back in, especially if you give them the slightest chance. Remember not to, and you will find it much easier to break away from the cannabis. Be sure to stay away from any environment that would expose you to marijuana since at the start, you will be tempted to slip back into your old ways. To avoid this will take a bit of preparation.
One of the best things to do in order to prepare yourself in quitting pot is to get plenty of rest. You may feel tired when you stop, or feel early cravings more when you are tired. This is completely normal for weed smokers who stop. So make sure you don't fight it, just get some extra sleep and allow your mind and body to take its course and allow it the extra energy it needs to begin rebuilding itself. Rest is one of the two main things your body will need in order to detoxify.

The second thing is a lot of water. Drink lots of water since water is one of the most essential things to life. When you quit marijuana, water flushes your system and it cleans out your entire body of toxins. The THC and all aspects of the pot that stays in your system will be flushed away, gone from your body, gone from your mind, leaving you free. Drinking water will even ease some of the cravings that come from the weed.

So now you know the basics of quitting marijuana naturally and easily, without too much stress, strain or confusion. There are many of things that can help with quitting, many things you can do with your diet that assist you in removing all cravings and withdrawal. However, throw out all your paraphernalia, giving yourself distractions, avoid your pot-head friends and get plenty of rest and water and you will find it easier then ever to quit marijuana for good. It is definitely a journey worth taking.

___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Best Of: How a Break From Booze Can Boost Your Health

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:06 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:06 pm

How a Break From Booze Can Boost Your Health

By JENNY DEAM

Even if you avoid overindulging around the holidays (eggnog bender, anyone?), starting off the New Year with a short break from booze can transform your body and mind. Turns out, much of the damage that alcohol does can be reversed. Try giving up the sauce for four weeks and you might be surprised at how much better you look and feel.

Within a Few Days

Minus any moisture-sapping alcohol, your skin will look and feel more hydrated. Any ruddiness in your cheeks and nose (caused by swollen capillaries) will fade. Nonchronic dandruff, eczema, or rosacea should lessen or disappear.

Alcohol may make you sleepy, but it also disrupts the quality of your sleep. Which means you're now getting the sounder shut-eye that leads to increased concentration and energy levels.

Your liver is loving you! It no longer has to work double time to neutralize boozy toxins and can now home in on other stuff, like helping you recover faster from scrapes or bruising.

Take a Break and Bounce Back Faster

If you suffer wonky digestion, and especially acid reflux, your symptoms should drastically improve.

Within a Week or Two

Since alcohol is by its nature a depressant, it can drag down the outlook of drinkers. Which means you should now start noticing increased mental clarity and much better moods.

Lots of women booze to relax, but lots of alcohol over time actually makes the heart work much harder. Without that extra burden, your pulse rate is lower and you're better able to exercise.

Within a Month

Most alcohol is loaded with sugar and empty calories, which often show up as belly fat (the most dangerous kind). Your abs are now re-revealing themselves; however, you may be fighting residual sugar cravings.

All that sleep you've been scoring means your brain and body are well rested. Enter heightened productivity and an ever-brightening mood.

Alcohol can dull your senses�all of your senses. Contrary to popular belief, sex isn't better when you're buzzed. Trust us and test this, now that your sexual organs are extra-sensitive again.

If you're trying to become pregnant, you now have a better chance of conceiving.

___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Best Of: 5 Strategies for Highly Effective New Year's Resolu

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:23 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:23 pm

5 Strategies for Highly Effective New Year's Resolutions

Jeremy Dean doesn't like the idea that you've made a New Year's resolution yet again this year. But as a research psychologist at University College London, he knows you've gone ahead and made one anyway.

"Most resolutions are too vague, too hard and too spontaneous," he said. "You're better off taking the time to think things through and putting the necessary preparation into place so you have a chance of succeeding."

Still, if you're going to do this thing, he wants you to do it right. Here are five strategies from Dean's new book, Making Habits, Breaking Habits, for making your resolutions stick.

Balance good and bad

A positive outlook is a good start to a resolution but it will only get you so far, Dean said. You also need to think about everything that can stand in your way.

Psychologists call this technique "mental contrasting." It works, Dean said, because it fires up motivation and because it better prepares you for what can go wrong.

It also stops you from wasting time.

"If a goal isn't realistic you'll realize it as soon as you've thought through the negatives. If it's too hard, you'll quickly abandon it," Dean said.

Focus on process

Fantasizing about being rich or thin can be oddly de-motivating, because it allows you to taste just enough success to stop you from taking action.

"You're a lot more likely to reach your goals if you focus on the steps you need to take to get there rather than the end result itself," Dean pointed out.

According to Dean, putting all your energy into process allows for the possibility of achievement even if your overall efforts are flawed. You master new habits more easily because you reinforce the skills you need to succeed whether you reach the desired result each and every try.

Think "If/ Then"

Resolutions that are too vague are doomed to failure, Dean says. But so are ones that are hyper-specific. Strike the happy medium by turning to resolutions into "if/then" statements.

Let's say your aim is to live a more active lifestyle. Starting off with the idea you'd like to walk the stairs more often, craft your goal like this: If I come to an elevator, then I will take the stairs or get off one floor early and take the stairs from there.

Such a statement links the actions you wish to take (walking stairs) with a common situation (coming to an elevator), increasing the likelihood that you'll follow through because it allows you to hook your habit onto a chain of events in your day that's already taking place. Just don't tie your goals to a definite time of day. Dean says this is a no-no because it promotes clock watching and if you get off schedule for some reason, you lose the opportunity to practice your new habit.

Also, building an "or" into the "then" part of the equation gives you more choices to complete your goal.

Replace don't erase

When most people decide to address a bad habit such as smoking or binge eating, they usually try to squelch it. You're better off trying to replace the bad habit with a better one.

"It's like trying not to think about a white bear," he said. "If you try not to think about the bear, then it's all you can think about."

So, instead of trying to completely terminate a habit like nighttime snacking, Dean suggested replacing the junk food for which you normally reach with some fruit. Studies show this is often more successful than trying to suppress the temptation to eat altogether because it dampens your obsession and allows you to conserve your limited reserves of self-control.

Keep on repeating

Just how long does it take to create a new habit? In a study carried out at University College London, 96 participants were asked to make an everyday behavior such as drinking more water, eating more fruit or exercising into a regular practice. More than half the participants couldn't hack it and quickly dropped out, but those who kept at it took an average of 66 days before the new routine became automatic and subconscious.

There was some variation: Simple tasks such as drinking a glass of water before breakfast took only about 20 days to take hold. Exercise proved to be the most stubborn goal; one participant who lasted until the end of the study took 84 days to make doing 50 sit ups a day a regular occurrence.

Dean said that each time you repeat the same action, consider it a mini-victory and know that it moves you one step closer to making your resolution an official habit.

"It's like climbing a very steep hill," he said. "It's hard to start but eventually it levels off and by the time you get to the top, it's a lot easier to keep going."

___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

Best Of: Are we blinded by a smoke screen?

2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily — Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:52 pm

Author: 2 Old 2 B Buzzed Daily

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:52 pm

Marijuana is harmless? Are we blinded by a smoke screen?
ROBERT EVERETT-GREEN

Marijuana is harmless? Are we blinded by a smoke screen?

We used to fear Mary Jane, then we laughed about her, and now many of us think she�s downright wholesome. Marijuana�s public image has undergone a stunning transformation since the scare-mongering of Reefer Madness and the dope comedies of Cheech and Chong, but many doctors believe that weed�s rehabilitation as a virtual wonder drug may be distracting us from its real health dangers.

It seems that plenty of people have bought the idea that marijuana is a harmless herb, or better. Stories proclaiming the benefits of �medical marijuana� � for ailments as varied as arthritis, MS, glaucoma and Alzheimer�s � abound in mainstream media like International Business Times, and at patient support sites such as Livestrong.org. Voters in Washington and Colorado recently approved measures to begin legalizing pot, and a reinvigorated movement in B.C. is pushing for similar changes. A poll in the summer showed that two-thirds of Canadians are okay with decriminalizing weed for personal use.

Pot supporters promote its supposed benefits at big trade shows like the Treating Yourself Expo, which celebrated its third annual edition in May in Toronto. Doctors aren�t nearly so well mobilized on the issue, but many say the health risks of smoking marijuana are more extensive and better understood than ever before.

�There�s a pretty potent lobby that makes claims about the medical benefits of cannabis, and anybody who disputes them is labelled part of the war on drugs,� says Dr. Meldon Kahan, medical director of the Substance Use Service at Women�s College Hospital in Toronto. �But there�s no role, or hardly any role, for smoked cannabis in the treatment of chronic pain. There are safer alternatives, such as cannabis in pill form or inhalers. There are toxins in cannabis smoke that are carcinogens, and that accelerate heart disease. Smoked cannabis is addicting, unsafe during pregnancy and especially dangerous for young people, in terms of triggering psychosis, depression and mood disorders.�

According to Health Canada, addiction is a complex phenomenon that includes psychological cravings, difficulties in controlling use, symptoms of withdrawal, and persistence in the addictive activity even when it is obviously damaging one�s health, relationships and day-to-day functioning. All can apply to heavy cannabis smokers, says Kahan.

Teens are still developing neurologically, he says, which makes them more vulnerable than adults to the adverse effects of marijuana, especially of the powerful strains for which B.C. is famous. A recent report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences about a long-term study of more than 1,000 pot-using teens in New Zealand said that those who continued smoking into their 30s suffered significant cognitive deficits related to memory, reasoning and ability to process information.

According to a 2007 report by Health Canada, 8.2 per cent of young people use cannabis on a daily basis. Many teens smoke weed to cope with the anxieties of adolescence, and find it very tough to quit.

�People who take cannabis regularly get a mood-leveling effect,� Kahan says. �When they stop suddenly, there�s a tremendous rebound anxiety that can go on for days or weeks, and that makes them want to take it again.�

Many young users smoke it with tobacco, a combo that researchers are finding to be much more addicting than marijuana alone. Dr. Bernard Le Foll, a leading researcher at Toronto�s Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, says his research shows that when nicotine and tetrahydrocannabinol (or THC, the element in pot that delivers the �high�) are received together, they magnify each other�s effects on brain chemistry.

A 2009 study at the University of B.C. led by Dr. Wan Tan found �a significant synergistic effect between marijuana smoking and tobacco smoking� that increases risk for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. COPD (which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis) can aggravate the risk of pneumonia, heart problems, glaucoma and lung cancer.

John Westland, a social worker at the Hospital for Sick Children�s Adolescent Substance Abuse Outreach Program, says many of his teenaged patients combine weed and tobacco in the quick-hit form known as �poppers� (not to be confused with the amyl nitrites inhaled at clubs and raves). They use a modified water pipe that delivers a head rush they don�t get from smoking straight marijuana.

�From my experience with my patients, I would say the addiction potential is higher for sure,� Westland says. The relative cheapness of poppers is also a draw, as is the societal notion that pot is pretty much okay, and that a few cigarettes won�t hurt you. �As their perception of risk goes down, use goes up,� Westland says. Withdrawal is an ugly process that deprives jittery patients of sleep and appetite, he says, and can drag on through cycles of relapse and repeated efforts.

So why is weed regarded as relatively benign? How can any kind of smoking seem okay in 2012 Pot�s current reputation has certainly benefited from growing skepticism about established medicine. Marijuana is seen as whole and natural, not a refined pharmaceutical produced by a big corporation. Weed as a painkiller or treatment for nausea may appeal to the same people who seek out herbal equivalents of pharmaceuticals such as Valium, whose effects can be mimicked by valerian root.

Pot also benefits from current demographics. In contrast to seniors of, say 20 years ago, aging boomers today have fond memories of sharing a joint in their college dorm, and may not be aware that today�s marijuana is probably much more potent than what they smoked in �68.

The widespread feeling that prohibition has failed both users and society as a whole has also helped. Surely a little pot smoking can�t be more harmful, say weed activists, than a harsh legal regime that has cost us so much in money and damaged lives.

�Whatever people think the harms of cannabis are, those are best reduced by a legally regulated system,� says Dana Larsen, leader of a Sensible B.C. initiative to decriminalize weed in B.C. In any case, he says, �The use of cannabis since the 1960s has pretty much steadily risen in Canada, as has the severity of the laws, so the idea that prohibition is doing anything to keep cannabis out of the hands of youth is totally wrong.�

No doubt. What does work is information. A 2011 survey report from the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse found that while cannabis use is increasing among American high school students, tobacco smoking has dropped by half since 1997. In those 15 years, tremendous societal scorn has come down on smoking, the ill effects of which are pictured on every cigarette pack. Marijuana, meanwhile, has acquired a public image almost as benign as wheatgrass. Perhaps our long-running relationship with Mary Jane is due for another change.

Pills vs. joints

Health Canada permits people to take marijuana to relieve �severe pain� or �debilitating symptoms� of several illnesses, �if a specialist confirms the diagnosis and that conventional treatments have failed or [are] judged inappropriate.� But there�s fierce debate about whether smoked cannabis is a good way to deliver the pain and nausea-suppressing effects of THC.

�There�s no other medicine that people would even think of smoking,� says Meldon Kahan, medical director of the Substance Use Service at Women�s College Hospital in Toronto. Cannabinoid pills and inhalers are safer, he says, and deliver medication over a longer period. Smoked marijuana delivers a surge of THC that is uncontrolled, intoxicates the patient and wears off sooner.

But Dana Larsen, a marijuana activist who runs the Medical Cannabis Dispensary in Vancouver, says that smoked weed does negligible harm to patients. Pills, he said, would be a worse option.

�The idea that people should turn away from a natural herb that�s been used for thousands of years, and instead use synthetic pharmaceutical products, is a failed argument,� Larsen says. �Those products are going to cost a lot more, they�re not going to have the same therapeutic benefits, and I would say they often present more harms.�
In any case, Larsen says, many of his customers opt for non-psychoactive extracts of cannabis, including tinctures, capsules and lotions.

___________________________________________________________

Quitting Resources

"A guide to quitting Marijuana and Hashish"
http://www.droginfo.com/pdf/guideuk.pdf

"Getting Out of It: How to Cut Down or Quit Cannabis" (Australian)
http://o.b5z.net/i/u/6136340/i/Getting_out_of_it.pdf

Thread: How to Quit Smoking Cannabis (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24480

Thread: Benefits of being off weed (Wakinglife)
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=264268&highlight=#264268

Thread: Best Of Quitters Wisdom: 2
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=541790#541790

Thread: "Quotes For Quitters"
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=48120

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