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Panic Attacks and Anxiety Resources
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liquid force
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 20
Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:57 pm
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| Public speaking, inderal, solutions? |
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Hi there everyone.
I'll tell you a bit about me and my problem first, I'm 17 and I have recently got a job where I will have to give probably 17 or 18 presentations in the next year, for the most part to about 300 people. But I hate public speaking, its one thing that causes this hate for me really I think, the fact that my voice shakes when I get nervous, the fact that I know that this happens is what makes me nervous aswell. And I don't really understand why because up until a couple of years ago I used to be one of the best speakers in class, and the teachers always used to pick me to read passages from books etc. But then something must have clicked or happened and I've been nervous about it ever since. Other symptons include severe dry mouth, (I can salivate but about 3 seconds later if that, it is bone dry again; this has gotten worse with my recent position). I go red when I realise my voice is doing the tremor thing, forgetting half of my presentation, excessive sweating.
I really don't care about any of the other symptons much at all, it is just the fact that my voice shakes that I can't deal with, and many of these other symptons don't appear until I realise that my voice is shaking. This sympton is instantly visible to everyone, it sucks big time and I want to and really need to do something about it.
I heard about inderal being used to treat these sort of symptons for public speaking. Has anyone had any experience using inderal, and for public speaking? If you have could you please tell me about your experiences with it/anything you know about it relating to this problem. If I was to use it it would only be in the cases where I have an upcoming presentation/speech, so probably 18 times this year or something. After that I won't have to do many speeches/presentations so could get away with using it 2 or 3 times a year. I also read online about it has the possibility of causing heart attacks if suddenly stopped, would this relate to taking one small dosage 18 times a year, or is this when you are using it everyday and the like? If this is a decent option how would I go about getting some. I have the classic sympton of feeling embarassed about this fear and try to hide it from my friends and family and if this was a cure would I have to see my doctor to use it? If so would he be able to tell my parents about it? I'm even scared about telling my doctor about it, even though I basically don't know him, I haven't seen him since I was about 10 or something and most likely won't again for another good few years/ever if I move and change doctors. I don't understand why I'm like this, but I don't really care if I can cure the voice tremor.
I also had a look at the option of hypnosis to treat this disorder, I wouldn't mind spending enough money to get it sorted, I can't afford a tremendous amount probably about £250 would be my cap, but I would gladly spend it all if I thought it would cure it. Has anyone undergone any forms of hypnosis/related therapies? How did it go?
I recently bought a herbal supplement called relora in the hope it may help. I haven't really tested it yet, although I have taken a capsule. It is reccomended to take 3-4 before the event for public speaking, but does anyone have any ideas on how to test if it will work that aren't going to prove embarassing if it doesn't, without actually going into the real event without knowing. I also heard of a herbal supplement called Kava Kava that is supposed to be helpful, has anyone ever used this? How did it go?
I have 3 weeks before I have to give my first presentation, so 3 weeks to find a cure. I know I've given a lot of information about me and what I found that could be possible cures, sorry for that, once I started I needed to carry on and I guess it will help you to help me.
Thanks to anyone that posts in advance. |
f clifford
MVP
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 521
Location: Australia
Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:16 am
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I havent tried the remedies you were talking about but I do understand your anxiety about public speaking. I sing and play music on stage and suffered with anxiety that almost put an end to it at one point. Iam generally a nervy sort of person and had been experiencing panic attacks in other areas of my life. On stage I felt like I couldnt swallow and like I was going to pass out. I can honestly say that I no longer experience that now. I shifted my ideas about myself on stage and stopped worrying about it so much. I found that taking time to prepare by imagining myself on stage relaxed,confident and performing well was important. I also used the idea of a trigger,,touching finger and thumb together as a cue to relax for example, a useful one. Hypnotherapy might be a good idea but a good book about public speaking and a bit of motivation might do the trick!!Good luck with it..youve got to come to love those opportunities to speak publicly,I promise you it can be done!!! |
jurplesman
Super Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 10375
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:56 am
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I can see that you are worried having anxiety attacks during a public presentation. I can identify with that because I had the same problems about forty years ago.
If you have an attack whilst speaking breath out and hold your breath as long as you can. The sudden flood of oxygen may dissipate the anxiety attack.
These attacks are caused by excess adrenaline poured into your system. Adrenaline is supposed to convert sugar stores in muscle and liver back into glucose to feed the brain, that is entirely dependent on glucose.
Thus the cause is fundamentally a hypoglycemic dip as a result of unstable blood sugar levels.
The treatment is the hypoglycemic diet, but this is not going to help you for a while. It takes about three months to regulate your blood sugar levels on the hypoglycemic diet. So in the meantime I suggest that you take propranolol (Inderal), with doctor's approval of course. It suppresses noradrenaline (the brain adrenaline), and stops the physical symptoms of anxiety without affecting your brain, intelligence or clarity of mind. It is always a good idea to prepare your speech with notes with headings only, serving as prompts.
If you cannot get hold of propranolol, you may try a sweet drink before your speech. Remember an anxiety attack is a hypoglycemic dip and hence sugar consumption raises blood sugar levels (BSLs) and stops the anxiety attacks. BUT and this is a big BUT it must be realized that consuming excess sugar may aggravate the hypoglycemic condition that causes you to have anxiety attacks in the first place. Most people get a dip after three hours of eating sugar. I had one client that gets a hypoglycemic dip within half an hour of sugar intake, but this is very rare. We are all biochemically different.
Avoid any stimulants like caffeine and alcohol.
There are several other nutritional remedies. Honey contains about 40-43% glucose and an equal amount of fructose. Thus a table spoon of honey may give you an instant boost in glucose and the fructose portion is slowly metabolized in the liver into glucose. You have then both an immediate and slow release glucose into the system, which should prevent an adrenaline rush, for at least some hours.
I am always reluctant to advise these sugar tricks, because every nutritionist knows that sugar consumption can only worsen the anxiety attacks in the long term and may even trigger diabetes. So you are warned.
It is best to take glycerine before the speech. Glycerine is metabolized in the liver to glucose, bypasses the pancreas and does not cause a insulin peak (the causes of hypo dips). Other substances with a similar effect is fructose and xylitol.
You can get the glycerine from any pharmacist, mix one tablespoon of glycerine in a glass of water with a dash of lemonade to improve taste, and it will slowly release glucose via the liver without a sugar peak. It should stop the anxiety attack, because it does not trigger adrenaline release. Drink it 1/2 hour before the speech. You can experiment with glycerine any time before your speech.
There are natural sources of glucose/fructose - like bananas, melon or grapes, that should raise BSLs.
If you mix a glass of warm milk with bananas you should have all the ingredients to produce serotonin, the calming hormone. This mixture has calcium, magnesium, tryptophan and B complex vitamins. It is also a good remedy for those that have insomnia,but may not work for others (See: "Hit of Miss Supplements for Depression").
And of course, if you have a high protein meal (two eggs on toast, or steak with potatoes) one or two hours before your speech, you will have a full stomach and will be converting these proteins into glucose at a slower rate.
So you have a few options here.
You can test yourself for hypoglycemia with the NBI at our web site if you have any doubts about having hypoglycemia.
The ultimate treatment is the hypoglycemic diet as part of your lifestyle.
Good luck and I am sure you will make it!!
Last edited by jurplesman on Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
cat
New Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:16 am
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Hi there Liquid.
I have the same problem. I found Inderal (propanololol) works like magic for getting rid of pounding heart, shakey voice for public speaking. But I still looked anxious so I took citapram for anxiety too and I now feel good on stage. I was prescribed these under the guidence of a psychiatrist. I was assured that these chemicals do no damage to liver, kidneys, etc. Propanolol lowers your blood pressure so you need to come off it slowly so you b.p. doesn't shoot up too quickly. I'm not sure if a family doctor would be knowledgeable about medications for our problem. I went to expense of a pychiatrist because I needed an immediate cure and it was for my career. Long term, in my case it is caused by general anxiety and only way to get rid of that is through therapy. I reckon it is well worth the expense to seek professional help to get rid of this problem. |
lydia
New Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 6
Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:33 am
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| Inderal |
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I tried Inderal last night for a singing performance. I was pretty amazed at how well it worked. I still felt excited but did not have shaky hands or the waves of dread I sometimes experience when making any kind of public performance (dancing, introducing myself, speaking, singing). I enjoyed the experience SO much more than ever before. My sense is that by using this drug I can used to the feeling of enjoyment and then stop. I highly recommend this for people who want to get over their fears and move on with their lives and careers. Note that it is strongly contra-indicated for people with asthma. |
uber
New Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 3
Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:44 am
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quote:
Originally posted by cat
Hi there Liquid.
I have the same problem. I found Inderal (propanololol) works like magic for getting rid of pounding heart, shakey voice for public speaking. But I still looked anxious so I took citapram for anxiety too and I now feel good on stage. I was prescribed these under the guidence of a psychiatrist. I was assured that these chemicals do no damage to liver, kidneys, etc. Propanolol lowers your blood pressure so you need to come off it slowly so you b.p. doesn't shoot up too quickly. I'm not sure if a family doctor would be knowledgeable about medications for our problem. I went to expense of a pychiatrist because I needed an immediate cure and it was for my career. Long term, in my case it is caused by general anxiety and only way to get rid of that is through therapy. I reckon it is well worth the expense to seek professional help to get rid of this problem.
Ok Cat I just want to make sure you understand this. You said Inderal has no bad side effects, you had better be careful there. I have been on Inderal for a while now, and I can tell you what my Doctor told me. Before you start this medicine I want to explain the side effects, , and he proceeded to tell me. You can get insomnia, your hair might fall out, vomiting, bradycardia, rash, if you have allergies to anything this will make you more easily affected, how do you feel about carple tunnel, drop in white blood cell count, hypotension. Now let me get to the bad side effects, some are rare but do you want to trust it wont happen to you. Liver pathology, renal failure, fatal heart failure, deppression, abnormal behaviors, ect, and a whole lot more. So if you are taking this drug I hope you have the common sense to have bloodwork done. I have to have blood drawn every 4 weeks. Look all you have to do is Google inderal side effects. My goodness take control of your health people, and don't believe everything told to you, or should I say fed to you. Thats a good way to wind up with more problems than you had in the begining. Research for Gods sakes. |
lydia
New Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 6
Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:48 pm
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| Occasional use of Inderal |
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Hi Uber,
I would counter that taking a low-dose (5-10mg) beta blocker once every few weeks or months presents negligible health risk for most healthy people. I got mine from my doctor of 15 years, no dire warnings and I have shown no ill effects.
I know that the stress of worrying about a presentation for days or weeks and not sleeping is much harder on my body, mind and spirit.
For those who have really tried to address this phobia, but have been unsuccessful, try Inderal. I say YES much more often now to invitations to speak and believe I'll ultimately conquer my fear with the help of this drug.
Lydia |
Jayxer
New Member
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1
Mon May 12, 2008 4:31 pm
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| Inderal and Rivotril/Klonopin (Clonazepam) |
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Hi,
Inderal is a mild medication that addresses the physical symptoms to some extent. Doses of 15 mg (3 tablets) are harmless on an as-needed basis, around half an hour before performing. Up to 6 of these can be taken daily.
But if you'd like to try a far more effective medication for this condition then I'd strongly suggest Klonopin (US) or Rivotril (UK) which both contain Clonazepam. This is far stronger and addresses the central nervous system and therefore calms your mind. At a sufficient dose it actually makes you outspoken, confident and has quite an anti-depressant effect (even though it's not an anti-depressant).
At first it is tiring. Once your body builds a little tolerance to it, the tiredness goes away and you feel relaxed and slightly euphoric! You can take 1mg to 2mg 2 hours before performing. Provided you are over the temporary tiredness side-effects, you will perform at your best with ease. |
robinsl
New Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:37 pm
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| Panic Attacks / Inderal and other techniques |
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Hi -
I'm in my late 30's now and have experienced panic attacks for about 20 years, during that time I've tried pretty much everything going - Hypnotherapy, CBT, EFT, Beta Blockers, visualisation and relaxation techniques.
It’s all related to the ‘Flight or Fight’ mechanism that alerts your nervous system to a potentially dangerous situation. A throwback to our caveman days, fortunately for us you no longer need to fight or run from sabre tooth tigers, unfortunately for us our caveman system still needs to invoke the same reactions even if it’s none life threatening i.e. giving a presentation (although it can feel life threatening). Sportsmen / Actors are very familiar with it and they reframe it in their minds as something that will give them an extra edge when they need to perform.
I’ve chosen to steer away from medication, as I kind of see it as a last resort, however a friend of mine has tried Inderal (under medical prescription), and it has changed his life as he always struggled with presentations, even though he’d done hundreds he still had the panic attacks. It’s a personal choice and if I were giving a presentation to 300 people I’d probably do the same.
Personally I’ve had success, with a combination of the following - Meditation, visualising a successful outcome (your nervous system doesn’t know the difference between your imagination and reality) challenging negative thoughts (a big one this, your biggest enemy is the voice in your head telling you you’re crap – challenge it – there’s often no basis), deep breathing, distracting your thoughts and planning properly. I've found that if you know you've done all you can do, then there's no reason to panic - easier to say than do I know, but you always know within yourself if you've prepared properly.
Then there’s a few staples, such as regular exercise, healthy diet and friends / family / forums like this one to open up to (this is very important, shame often prevents people from talking – don’t let it, I carried it around by myself for years – not good)
So I’m sorry that there is no one answer, it could be one, all or a combination of the above that works for you and the only way to know is to be committed to trying.
The important things to remember are that:-
a) The attack always passes (you’re not dying like you think you’re the first time it happens)
b) You’d be surprised how little people notice that you’re having one
c) You’re not a freak – its very common
d) Imaginative people experience it
Hope this helps - good luck |
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