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jurplesman
Super Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 10375
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon May 11, 2009 12:34 am
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HI TheHappinessClinic,
I never got the impression that you were selling anything. As a professional like me, we like to share our experience with people. With a history of serious mood disorders myself I am thankful for people who have helped me and trained me, and I can honestly say that I was very privileged to have had a job that I enjoyed. I have always had the feeling that I needed to give something in return for all the help I personally received from my mentors. I am sure that you like me consider your job as a vocation rather than a job. Counselling is a very rewarding profession. I hope that you will continue giving your opinions on any matters raised at this discussion board.
Funnily, I started off as a volunteer (while training and studying), then became a professional, but even as a professional I considered myself a volunteer, and now that I am retired I am still a volunteer. I have not the slightest interest in making money, apart from having enough to survive. My wife accuses me that I should have been a priest instead of a Nutritional Psychologist. I am also the founding member of the Hypoglycemic Association Health Association, which is a non-profit charitable organisation and a bridge between our members and complementary doctors interested in promoting complementary medicine. It is a bit wider than "mental illness", as it concerns nutritional aspects of medical problems in general. In fact "mental illness" is just an example of a medical malaise. The aim is to "educate" the public and medical profession about nutritional medicine.
My approach to treatment is and always has been to educate clients about the physical and psychological aspects of "mental illness" (which I have already said does not really exist), so as to enable clients to be their own psychotherapist. So I am not anybody's psychotherapist, but I teach people the tools of psychotherapy (as I was taught) - starting off with the physical/biochemical aspects FIRST, then followed with "psychological" repair of personality. I consider most forms of endogenous mood disorders to be due to biological factors, to which I give priority. This may annoy people who are "psychologically" oriented. I am also likely to annoy psychiatrists as I aim at treating people without the use of drugs as much as possible. If drugs are used there are some nutritional tricks to counteract side effects. Thus it is more about education than personal advice - which I find impossible to do over the internet.
As such people have to educate themselves in the same manner I myself had to do and this requires reading educational materials that I am giving completely free of charge. If people were to come and see me I would charge a fee. If you are not prepared to read I cannot help anybody via the internet. I don't mind criticism, but I would like to be challenged scientifically, not by means of ad hominem arguments. Most of my statements are evidence-based, supported by either research or text books and I am quite willing to refer people to other scientific literature in support of whatever I am claiming.
Nevertheless, regardless of whatever approach we take, as humans we will remain fallible and we should realize that there are many roads that lead to Rome. I hope this discussion board remains eclectic, contributing ideas from a broad range of sources. |
johnjoe
Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1748
Location: UK/moved to Mauritius Nov 07
Mon May 11, 2009 5:34 am
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| Hi jurplesman |
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I am sure you are past the point of worrying about what other people say about you on this site.
If you are giving free information as you do and links to other sites, then people have the option of looking, reading, taking onboard the information and/or disregard it.
Best Wishes
Joe |
gull2516
Full Member
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 212
Mon May 11, 2009 8:31 am
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Thank that Kathleen wrote a post.
Any discussion that pertaining to the topic of mental illness and/or related issues with an intention of helping people, to to understand and benefit from, would the one and only good thing one do, nothing else, at any event. |
TheHappinessClinic
Preferred Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Oxon/Bucks /Bournemouth
Mon May 11, 2009 11:31 am
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Thank you Kathleen -Very helpful
and thanks Jurplesman I appreciate your thoughts. What you do doesn’t seem a million miles from the biology that I do. If adrenaline causes sugar to be made wont it in turn cause more anxiety? More sugars mean always living life in the fast lane. No time to think straight. It is obvious nutrition plays a part.
I get what you mean when you say mental illness does not exist but as an ex fellow sufferer you must agree at the time of suffering it does. Past events continue to react within the body. Cellular changes that is unconscious. Everything set up to uphold a set of beliefs. Mentally we are trapped seeing our own perspective.
In the 16th century Descartes did a deal with the pope that he would leave mind and spirituality alone in exchange for dead bodies to dissect thus separating mind and body. Mind and body are one and it is only when we see this that real change is possible which of course is what you do.
It is on forums such as this that we can enjoy discussions and learn to see other perspectives. It is there that change becomes possible. |
jurplesman
Super Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 10375
Location: Sydney, Australia
Tue May 12, 2009 2:28 am
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHappinessClinic
If adrenaline causes sugar to be made wont it in turn cause more anxiety? More sugars mean always living life in the fast lane. No time to think straight. It is obvious nutrition plays a part.
Prediabetic hypoglycemia really means unstable blood sugar levels, as shown here.
You will notice that in all cases there is a steep rise in blood sugar levels. This is because receptors for insulin do not respond to insulin. In the extreme case we have diabetes where receptors do not seem to respond to insulin at all. Also notice the flat curve hypoglycemia, which is a sign of hypothyroidism. In the prediabetic and hypoglycemic curves, the rise is followed by a sudden descent in blood sugar levels in response to heightened sugar concentrations, called hyperinsulinism. This sudden crash in blood sugar levels is a danger sign to the brain, which is entirely dependent on proper glucose supplies as its only source of energy. The brain (hypothalamus) now sends a hormone to the adrenal glands to pour adrenaline into system, which functions to convert sugar stores in the body (glycogen) back into glucose, so as to feed the brain again with necessary energy. Thus with unstable blood sugar levels the brain will produce excess adrenaline - a fear hormone - which is responsible for most symptoms of mood disorders, such as anxiety attacks, OCD, PTSD, hallucinations and delusions.
Thus the only way of treating this is by stabilizing blood sugar levels the natural way by the adoption of the Hypoglycemic Diet. It may take some time for the body to adjust to this new regime (from 3- 12 months) depending on circumstances; such as drug use, nutritional deficiencies, allergies and so forth.
I hope this explains it. |
TheHappinessClinic
Preferred Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Oxon/Bucks /Bournemouth
Tue May 12, 2009 6:11 am
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So are you saying that the brain makes a fear to create adrenalin in order to gain more glucose? |
jurplesman
Super Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 10375
Location: Sydney, Australia
Tue May 12, 2009 6:36 am
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHappinessClinic
So are you saying that the brain makes a fear to create adrenalin in order to gain more glucose?
The brain "does not make a fear" in order to trigger adrenaline production, it is energy starvation in the brain that triggers the onslaught of adrenaline, experienced as fear for no apparent reason.(A delusion). We may create a delusion to make sense out of an hormonal unexplained or irrational fear reaction. |
TheHappinessClinic
Preferred Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Oxon/Bucks /Bournemouth
Tue May 12, 2009 6:47 am
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Why wouldn't it send a message to the liver to make more glucose? |
TheHappinessClinic
Preferred Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Oxon/Bucks /Bournemouth
Tue May 12, 2009 6:49 am
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why adrenalin? |
Cooler
Moderator
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 1145
Tue May 12, 2009 9:36 am
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHappinessClinic
I have in the past suffered from depression and had a number of issued that needed sorting. I would like to say I’m 100% cured but I have had the odd wobble this year even.
Happiness,
Just as an aside, I find it heartening that we are sharing our experiences on this forum with others who know the score. No matter how qualified a doctor is, I still feel better talking with someone who has tasted the illness.
Your term 'wobbles' is well put. I know the feeling.
C. |
TheHappinessClinic
Preferred Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Oxon/Bucks /Bournemouth
Tue May 12, 2009 10:40 am
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Thanks Cooler
I like it. It isn't until your through the wobble that you recognise it as such. At the time you you are standing on the precipice!! lol
It is all very well being highly qualified in what you do but mental illness is so unique to each person it is learning to deal with it on an individual basis. Listening to how others have learnt I think is very important. When your in it, there is no light. Hearing others gives it to you.
The stuff I say on here I use. Not on a daily basis anymore but when the need arrives I become aware and start working on myself. The quicker I become aware, the less of a wobble it is |
xXsociocideXx
New Member
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 13
Wed May 13, 2009 2:41 am
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Jurplesman, there is no doubt in my mind that diet relates to mood. I want carbs when I'm stressed and I can definitely relate to crashing after ingesting copious amounts of sugar. And it's definitely a vicious cycle, as you described above.
The question I have for you, Jurplesman, is what exactly are you categorizing as "hypoglycemia"? Personally, my encounters with hypoglycemia have involved the afflicted person losing coordination of her muscles and being in a state of mental confusion. Obviously, we're on two different wavelengths.  In your experience, how severe does the drop in blood sugar level have to be before someone's mood is affected?
Also, what's the label on the y-axis for your graph? I tried to find the original image source but the website its from is kinda funky and not user-friendly.
quote:
Why wouldn't it send a message to the liver to make more glucose?
That's what I'm wondering too. Glycogen is stored in the liver (and to a drastically lesser extent, the muscles). The thing that confuses me is that I'm pretty sure that glucagon (not adrenaline), produced by the pancreas, stimulates the liver to break down glycogen into glucose.
Adrenaline isn't a 'fear' hormone, it's a stress hormone (though naturally, fear is a stressor). I don't think that adrenaline is the brain's first response to low glucose levels. Rather, wouldn't the brain only need to release adrenaline after the glycogen in the liver and muscles has been completely exhausted? And that would only happen after not eating for quite a while.... |
jurplesman
Super Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 10375
Location: Sydney, Australia
Wed May 13, 2009 4:50 am
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHappinessClinic
Why wouldn't it send a message to the liver to make more glucose?
why adrenalin?
I don't understand the question? Glycogen (stored sugar in the liver and muscles) is converted to glucose by the hormone adrenaline, which is an adrenal hormone from the adrenal medulla. That's the way nature works.
quote:
Originally posted by xXsociocideXx
The question I have for you, Jurplesman, is what exactly are you categorizing as "hypoglycemia"? Personally, my encounters with hypoglycemia have involved the afflicted person losing coordination of her muscles and being in a state of mental confusion. Obviously, we're on two different wavelengths. In your experience, how severe does the drop in blood sugar level have to be before someone's mood is affected?
Tis is explained at:
What is Hypoglycemia?
and also
The Serotonin Connection ----> here and also here
It also shows under under what under what conditions adrenaline is triggered here.
quote:
Also, what's the label on the y-axis for your graph? I tried to find the original image source but the website its from is kinda funky and not user-friendly.{/quote]
Here is an other graph:
quote:
Why wouldn't it send a message to the liver to make more glucose?
That's what I'm wondering too. Glycogen is stored in the liver (and to a drastically lesser extent, the muscles). The thing that confuses me is that I'm pretty sure that glucagon (not adrenaline), produced by the pancreas, stimulates the liver to break down glycogen into glucose.
This is a good question.
Glucagon is a polypeptide hormone secreted by the alpha cells of the islets of Langerhans in response to hypoglycemia, that converts stored carbohydrates (glycogen) into glucose, the body’s energy source. It counteracts isulin. But in an emergency - as when there is a sudden brain glucose starvation - adrenaline is a fast acting, instant-on stress hormone. See also: Jack Challem page 47 and here.
quote:
Adrenaline isn't a 'fear' hormone, it's a stress hormone (though naturally, fear is a stressor). I don't think that adrenaline is the brain's first response to low glucose levels. Rather, wouldn't the brain only need to release adrenaline after the glycogen in the liver and muscles has been completely exhausted? And that would only happen after not eating for quite a while....
Adrenaline as well as cortisol are used in cases of emergency. They are fast-acting hormones RAPIDLY supplying muscle and organs with glucose for immediate action. That's why one of the symptoms of over-secretion of adrenaline is muscle shakes. Adrenaline is also a focusing hormone, forcing you to focus on the "enemy'. |
TheHappinessClinic
Preferred Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Oxon/Bucks /Bournemouth
Wed May 13, 2009 7:40 am
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quote:
The brain "does not make a fear" in order to trigger adrenaline production, it is energy starvation in the brain that triggers the onslaught of adrenaline, experienced as fear for no apparent reason.(A delusion). We may create a delusion to make sense out of an hormonal unexplained or irrational fear reaction.
So where do you stand on triggers of past behaviours? It appears you are saying it doesn't really happen. A look can produce adrenalin. Are you saying its the brains way of making more glucose and not a reminder from how something happened in the past?
Surely past creates the reaction and the excess glucose is a by product?
Your fears are not usually for no apparent reason, you have learnt them. Whether they are real fears is a different matter but the response is triggered by a stimulus. At the time, the stimulus is very real |
xXsociocideXx
New Member
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 13
Wed May 13, 2009 12:03 pm
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quote:
Adrenaline as well as cortisol are used in cases of emergency. They are fast-acting hormones RAPIDLY supplying muscle and organs with glucose for immediate action. That's why one of the symptoms of over-secretion of adrenaline is muscle shakes. Adrenaline is also a focusing hormone, forcing you to focus on the "enemy'.
Then I guess what I'm failing to see is the connection between adrenaline levels and mood. As you said, adrenaline is only released in emergencies (like with the fight-or-flight response). If there's no clear and present danger, then what's the brain's motivation to release adrenaline rather than allowing glucagon to do it's work? Surely the brain is able to monitor blood glucose levels and ensure that it always has a (relatively constant) supply. (Or is this where the insulin-resistance comes into play? I think I just answered my own question.) |
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