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too much tension when speaking on certain topics


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JustChatting
New Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 16

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:43 am

too much tension when speaking on certain topics    Reply with quote  

Do you think that's possible to get rid forever of the inhibiting emotions?
I'm talking about feeling nervous, specially in the middle of other people and specially when discussing about certain topics.
I have this problem, I didn't always have it, I guess it was amplified in the last few years, because I had a lot of stress and unpleasant situations.
But this problem started to bother me specially after I got hired and I had to interact and socialize with different people (people which I wouldn't have any connection with unless they were my work mates).
It's hard for me to talk about certain things, specially things that are very important to me, like my hobbies, passions and beliefs. Symptoms are: heart beating fast, voice trembling, hands shaking, starting to feel weak and lose focus. Tension is the right word.
I noticed that there are 3 main body parts where the negative emotions are felt: head (feeling stressed), heart (beating fast) and stomach (causing diarrhea for example) - as a general observation, available for stress and tension in general, not only to nervousness when talking to people.
I was referring to "inhibiting emotions" earlier, because I'm not talking about those pleasant emotions when you're excited about something. It's that tension what inhibits and blocks you, that stops you from enjoying the moment and being how you want to be.
I'm trying to be as explicit as possible. Of course that this problem doesn't always affect me at the same intensity, but I wish that I could solve it once and forever.
I managed to make some progress, by meditation, prayer etc. An NLP exercise that helped me a lot was focusing on an object and on my breath at the same time and so, making a separation,a detachment (you have to go through a cycle, looking at it with your eyes open, vizualising it with your eyes closed, starting to also focus on your breath at the same time etc)
The situation also improved because I'm spending a notable amount of time per day in a very friendly environment now.
I also don't practice too much sport, I know it would help.
Finally, even though it doesn't permanently affect me, I feel that this problem is still in me and it stops me from fully expressing myself. I might have some complex views and tendentious(even extremist) opinions on some things, but I don't want to repress them just because it's hard for me to express them to others.
So, I'm open to any suggestions. I'm interested in psychology, spirituality, religion. Any exercise recommendation or advice is welcome.
  
jurplesman
Super Member


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 14148
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:17 am

   Reply with quote  

Hi JustChatting,

I suggest that you try out the supplementation of glycerine, obtainable from any health food store.

If you find that glycerine calms you down in anxious situations, it proves that you are hypoglycemic. This can be treated by going on a hypoglycemic diet.

Once on a hypoglycemic diet for about three months, you don't need to take glycerine any more.
asd
Junior Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 67

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: too much tension when speaking on certain topics    Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by JustChatting
Do you think that's possible to get rid forever of the inhibiting emotions?

I was referring to "inhibiting emotions" earlier, because I'm not talking about those pleasant emotions when you're excited about something. It's that tension what inhibits and blocks you, that stops you from enjoying the moment and being how you want to be.
I'm trying to be as explicit as possible. Of course that this problem doesn't always affect me at the same intensity, but I wish that I could solve it once and forever.
I managed to make some progress, by meditation, prayer etc. An NLP exercise that helped me a lot was focusing on an object and on my breath at the same time and so, making a separation,a detachment (you have to go through a cycle, looking at it with your eyes open, vizualising it with your eyes closed, starting to also focus on your breath at the same time etc)



Hi,

It's more about continuously evolving in a chosen direction, rather than getting rid of what's bothering you once and forever.

It's good to hear you're willing to explore any routes that may help you deal with the issue, and that you've already experimented with meditation. Now if you're good at visualizations, what you did comes very close to the real thing (exposure therapy), and that can be too much. A common advice is to go give speeches and make small talk as much as possible, but that doesn't always help, especially when there are serious physical symptoms.

My view is that you need to learn how to micro-manage them (bodymind) and, essentially, reset some of the automatic patterns in the brain and the body. Assume you want to change the way you walk. If you just pick your new walk and start practicing it, the myriad of muscles involved will still fire in the same sequence, following the same path they've been following for decades (the path of least resistance, avoiding the tight spots), but maybe with different intensity so that you can take larger or smaller steps, etc. Now if you were to really change the way you walk, you would deconstruct the walk, see, for instance whether it's the quads or the glutes that straighten the leg to propel you forward, become aware of the exact angle under which your foot hits the ground, all that. When you bring all that back under conscious control, you can change those normally involuntary the patterns and, after a while, the new, corrected form will become automatic.

Now think about applying the same principle to solve your issue. Analyze what's changing in the body whenever you experience emotions. Not just the emotions you don't like, all emotions. It's easier to detach and examine when you feel joy than when you feel horror, the only thing is that we want to just let ourselves enjoy the good times and not waste them on such analysis.

Posture is essential for breathing, and breathing is essential for keeping the heart rate down and the voice steady. Good posture is not pulling shoulders back and making the body stiff and erect (that's the worst thing you can do). If your body is slouching, when you forcefully straighten it, you're seriously limiting your ability to breath.
What you want is to always focus on elongating the spine, as if your top half is being pulled upwards by a balloon, while your bottom half is sinking into the floor under great weight. You want your shoulders to fall wherever they naturally fall (ideally, back and down, but you'll have to work on that if it's not happening yet; ). Similarly, you want all your other external muscles to fall, relaxed, on an erect structure maintained by your deep postural muscles.

When you breath, breath down into your stomach as if you're inhaling directly into the lungs, not your nostrils. Also, focus on releasing the hips, as a lot of emotional tension tends to accumulate in that area (also the shoulders). This may sound like nonsense, but it's not and there are all sorts of explanations.

The whole thing described above is closely related to meditation, your goal being do become mindful of your own body. Not only will that help with the symptoms you mentioned in your post, but it will also give you a better understanding of and control over your mind.
JustChatting
New Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 16

Post Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:12 am

   Reply with quote  

Hello,
Thank you for your answers.
I firstly want to ask Jurplesman about hypoglycemy, because I don't think that I really understood a thing:
let's say that I'm hypoglycemic; then, shouldn't I follow a diet with more sugar?
Or it's just about lack of glycerine and not lack of sugar? Just asking, I'm a bit confused.
Iceman30
Full Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 181

Post Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:58 am

   Reply with quote  

For the past 8 or 9 years, I've had the same problem as you. I wasn't like this at all until I was 27-28. I can't express my opinions well with certain people without getting a full-blown panic attack. I also get attacks when I run into people I don't want to talk to sometimes, or if I get very angry with strangers. Interestingly, I am a shy person at all. The more I try not to panic, the more I do. That's how it is. Though, over the past year, things are still much better for me than they were a few years ago, but I am far from having overcome the problem. My life seems to be forever on hold (can't do job interviews, etc). I've done every herb imaginable as well as Mindful Acceptance treatment. These things have helped, but nothing "did the trick", if you know what I mean. I haven't given up...I never will... Very Happy

You're not alone, and I wish you the best.
JustChatting
New Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 16

Post Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:23 pm

   Reply with quote  

Iceman30 there surely was a trigger that amplified the problem in your case too (about the age of 27-28 as you were saying).
I'm thinking that, in my case, there could be more triggers that amplified the problem: tiredness, stress and responsibilities, even cigarettes,coffee,alcohol.
It's interesting, I'm sure that there is a way to get rid of the problem (not necessarily "once and forever"), because almost nobody had this problem as a child.
You can try the exercise with the breath that I was talking about, it may help.
I wish you all the best, too!
jurplesman
Super Member


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 14148
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:46 am

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by JustChatting
Hello,
Thank you for your answers.
I firstly want to ask Jurplesman about hypoglycemy, because I don't think that I really understood a thing:
let's say that I'm hypoglycemic; then, shouldn't I follow a diet with more sugar?
Or it's just about lack of glycerine and not lack of sugar? Just asking, I'm a bit confused.


Most people when they want to discuss anxiety - or for that matter any other mood disorder - assume that it is a matter of mind over matter. In other words, they believe firmly that by looking at the problem LOGICALLY you can resolve the problem by changing your mind by a set of logical arguments. In fact this is saying to you"you are not logical". Thus you can will away your anxiety problems by changing you thinking patterns.

This completely overlook the fact that mood disorders are mainly caused by biochemical abnormalities that are responsible for the symptoms of diseases, that happens to affect the mind. This is why doctors prescribe drugs. They are smart enough to know it is PHYSICAL and not "psychological", except that the majority patients using psychotropic drugs finish up being permanently "treatment resistant" and may have to take drugs for the rest of their life. Good for psychiatry but not good for the patients.

It is very difficult for people without any background in nutritional biochemistry to understand how nutrition can affect the mind. In fact it creates a painful "cognitive dissonance" in these people usually resulting in attacking the author as a person instead of looking at the content of the scientific arguments. If you look at posts by me, you will find many people accusing me of scamming, or promoting myself or such nonsense. They cannot handle the topic under discussion.

Clinical nutrition is a evidence-based science just like any other science and it requires you to know the rules of "scientific method" if you want to debate the pros and cons of a scientific hypothesis. Attacking an author himself, instead of the theory, is a sure sign that we are dealing with a perosn with little understanding of science in general.

If you want to understand the connection between nutrition and mood disorders, then you have to realize that most of your neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes and co-enzymes are derived from nutrients in the food we eat. Thus SEROTONIN - an important feel-good neurotransmitter - is produced from an amino acid in food called, TRYPTOPHAN, with the help of many other nutrients such as zinc, magnesium B12, B6, Vitamin D, and a whole host of other enzymes and co-enzymes found in food.

What is seldom mentioned, even among biochemists themselves, is that in order to convert one set of molecules into another set of molecules, such as the conversion of tryptophan into serotonin, you need biological energy, called adenosinetriphosphate (ATP), to fuel this transformation. Without that energy the body cannot complete the conversion and we will become depressed, or anxious. or whatever affects the mind. An active cell requires more than 2 million ATP molecules per second.. Most hypoglycemic people lack that energy, which then may affect their mind.

Furthermore, when our mind is affected by a biochemical flaw - ie, we become anxious without any reasonable environmental cause - we tend to make up a story as to why we become anxious. The human mind is genetically programmed to link any emotion to an outside event in the environment - past or present. Thus if we have a low self-esteem the idea that "I am no good", becomes very soon "people think I am no good". This is how delusions and hallucinations are created, and this is not only restricted to psychotic illnesses, but normal delusions found in anxiety, phobias and depression, especially in PTSD.
In psychology this is called "Psychological Projection".

This is the usual technique used by professional psychologists in their psychotherapy sessions with clients "looking for external causes" for symptoms triggered by internal physical illnesses of the body.
Ignoring the biological basis of mood disorders is the most common cause of failure rate in treatment of "mental illness", as shown by numerous studies, leaving 60 % of patients with "treatment resistant" depression. If psychotherapy thus fails, the client is often left with the feeling that it is his fault

Yet, despite these studies available to anybody who can read, people continue to mislead "emotionally disturbed patients" with the mantra that their illness can be treated by long convoluted and expensive talk therapy sessions plus mind-altering drugs. Much of this evidenced at this web site, where people try to help others with mental health problems by looking for external environmental causes, past or present. It may sound sympathetic, but utterly useless in most cases. Clients are not looking for sympathy, but a "cure".

Now tragically this may often be misinterpreted by arguing, "therefore psychotherapy does not work". This is not correct. Psychotherapy is sometimes needed if you want to "reconstruct personality" in severely disturbed personalities, such as are found among a prison population. Prisons house the most severely deranged individuals. Even people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder can be greatly helped with a combination of nutritional and psychotherapeutic methods. But the cardinal rule in nutritional psychotherapy is that you MUST FIRST treat the biochemical aspect before addressing the "psychological" aspects. You cannot treat a physical illness by talk-therapy!

The other advantage with nutritional therapy is that we have found (working with nutritional doctors) that the majority of people with mood disorders are in fact hypoglycemic, when tested with a proper medical test. This means that majority can be helped by just adopting the hypoglycemic diet. They don't even have to know why the hypoglycemic diet works. This simple idea conflicts with the generally held idea that "mental illness" is a COMPLEX disease. Therefore nutritional therapy is just a "crazy" idea.

This means that it can easily be treated by a change in diet by the client him/herself. If this fails, then a further reference to a nutritional doctor or naturopath may be required, provided they are familiar with hypoglycemia.
JustChatting
New Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 16

Post Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:33 pm

   Reply with quote  

jurplesman, thanks for sharing all this information and experience.
I have to try the hypoglycemic diet. It would be a much more simple approach to the problem, instead of making so much of a "phylosophical discussion" out of it.
Iceman30
Full Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 181

Post Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:25 am

   Reply with quote  

Today, I had a bad day: someone started to ask me about what I did for a living, etc. I got real pannicked and ran to the bathroom. I answered quickly, but acted like I was in a hurry. I could barely talk...heart started to race and throat went shut....if I don't run away I get so embarrassed as the other person starts to think there is something wrong with me.

I am a bit upset as I haven't gotten this nervous for a while. I'm not sure why I get so nervous when certain people ask me what I do for a living. Some people are so nosy....I don't get like this with everyone - just certain people who make feel inferior, or uncomfortable....
JustChatting
New Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 16

Post Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:53 pm

   Reply with quote  

Iceman30 sorry to hear that, I had a few similar experiences and also tried to "cut them short". And yes, some people tend to make you panic more than others..specially if you don't like them or if they are too nosy and curious.
Just remember to breath..and you can also try (at home) the exercise that I was mentioning a while ago.
I also noticed that these situations can be improved by
1.being spontaneous, not thinking about an upcoming panic attack
2.(interesting, but sometimes it works) speaking in a more aggressive manner (a little bit loud and quickly) - this helps releasing the tension, letting it go, specially when you're really arguing or you're frustrated about something
ZenOfchaos
Junior Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 34

Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:37 pm

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by jurplesman


Most people when they want to discuss anxiety - or for that matter any other mood disorder - assume that it is a matter of mind over matter. In other words, they believe firmly that by looking at the problem LOGICALLY you can resolve the problem by changing your mind by a set of logical arguments. In fact this is saying to you"you are not logical". Thus you can will away your anxiety problems by changing you thinking patterns.

This completely overlook the fact that mood disorders are mainly caused by biochemical abnormalities that are responsible for the symptoms of diseases, that happens to affect the mind. This is why doctors prescribe drugs. They are smart enough to know it is PHYSICAL and not "psychological",


While I am not contesting biochemical nutrition I am calling complete BS on the statement. Doctors, while smart people, aren't smart enough to know it's a physical problem rather than psychological. Doctors prescribe drugs becuase their training is focused on the biological medical model of diagnosis and treatment. The may also get a nice commision from the pharmaceutical companies for prescribing drugs. Whats more is that doctors don't have the specialised training, knowledge, or resources to deal with psychologically related disorders (wether of biochemical origin or not), hence they prescribe drugs for mental health issues.


quote:
except that the majority patients using psychotropic drugs finish up being permanently "treatment resistant" and may have to take drugs for the rest of their life. Good for psychiatry but not good for the patients.

It is very difficult for people without any background in nutritional biochemistry to understand how nutrition can affect the mind. In fact it creates a painful [ucognitive dissonance" in these people usually resulting in attacking the author as a person instead of looking at the content of the scientific arguments. If you look at posts by me, you will find many people accusing me of scamming, or promoting myself or such nonsense. They cannot handle the topic under discussion.


just so you know, my replies and questions to you (check out my last post a couple of threads down) aren't attacking you or your hypotheses. Being in the field of research myself I would like prospective studies on your hypotheses. I for one would like one of these hypotheses to be true becuase it would lead to better/focused treatment for the bio-physiological aspects of my anxiety.


quote:
Clinical nutrition is a evidence-based science just like any other science and it requires you to know the rules of ["scientific method"[] if you want to debate the pros and cons of a scientific hypothesis. Attacking an author himself, instead of the theory, is a sure sign that we are dealing with a perosn with little understanding of science in general.

If you want to understand the connection between nutrition and mood disorders, then you have to realize that most of your neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes and co-enzymes are derived from nutrients in the food we eat. Thus SEROTONIN - an important feel-good neurotransmitter - is produced from an amino acid in food called, TRYPTOPHAN, with the help of many other nutrients such as zinc, magnesium B12, B6, Vitamin D, and a whole host of other enzymes and co-enzymes found in food.

What is seldom mentioned, even among biochemists themselves, is that in order to convert one set of molecules into another set of molecules, such as the conversion of tryptophan into serotonin, you need biological energy, called adenosinetriphosphate (ATP), to fuel this transformation. Without that energy the body cannot complete the conversion and we will become depressed, or anxious. or whatever affects the mind. ]An active cell requires more than 2 million ATP molecules per second.]. Most hypoglycemic people lack that energy, which then may affect their mind.

Furthermore, when our mind is affected by a biochemical flaw - ie, we become anxious without any reasonable environmental cause - we tend to make up a story as to why we become anxious. The human mind is genetically programmed to link any emotion to an outside event in the environment - past or present. Thus if we have a low self-esteem the idea that "I am no good", becomes very soon "people think I am no good". This is how delusions and hallucinations are created, and this is not only restricted to psychotic illnesses, but normal delusions found in anxiety, phobias and depression, especially in PTSD.
In psychology this is called"Psychological Projection".


Can you delineate cause and effect though? Might someone biochemistry alter over time in response to psychologically determined anxiety?


quote:
This is the usual technique used by professional psychologists in their psychotherapy sessions with clients "looking for external causes" for symptoms triggered by internal physical illnesses of the body.
Ignoring the biological basis of mood disorders is the most common cause of failure rate in treatment of "mental illness", as shown by numerous studies[, leaving 60 % of patients with "treatment resistant" depression. If psychotherapy thus fails, the client is often left with the feeling that it is his fault


Lets be honest. Psychotherapy is a rediculously poor form of therapy. It would be better to compare with CBT.


quote:
Yet, despite these studies available to anybody who can read, people continue to mislead "emotionally disturbed patients" with the mantra that their illness can be treated by long convoluted and expensive talk therapy sessions plus mind-altering drugs. Much of this evidenced at this web site, where people try to help others with mental health problems by looking for external environmental causes, past or present. It may sound sympathetic, but utterly useless in most cases. Clients are not looking for sympathy, but a "cure".

Now tragically this may often be misinterpreted by arguing, "therefore psychotherapy does not work". This is not correct. Psychotherapy is sometimes needed if you want to "reconstruct personality" in severely disturbed personalities, such as are found among a prison population. Prisons house the most severely deranged individuals. Even people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder can be greatly helped with a combination of nutritional and psychotherapeutic methods. But the cardinal rule in nutritional psychotherapy is that you MUST FIRST treat the biochemical aspect before addressing the "psychological" aspects. You cannot treat a physical illness by talk-therapy!

The other advantage with nutritional therapy is that we have found (working with nutritional doctors) that the majority of people with mood disorders are in fact hypoglycemic, when tested with a proper medical test. This means that majority can be helped by just adopting the hypoglycemic diet. They don't even have to know why the hypoglycemic diet works. This simple idea conflicts with the generally held idea that "mental illness" is a COMPLEX disease. Therefore nutritional therapy is just a "crazy" idea.

This means that it can easily be treated by a change in diet by the client him/herself. If this fails, then a further reference to a nutritional doctor or naturopath may be required, provided they are familiar with hypoglycemia.


Haven't you and your group applied for any funding to conduct some clinical trials?

mayeb in a few years when I finish my current work I'll do some work into this side!
Iceman30
Full Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 181

Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:54 pm

   Reply with quote  

Thank you for your support, JustChatting. I do appreciate it.

I even get anxiety symptoms if I laugh too hard (dizziness, etc.), especially in social situations where I am not completely comfortable with my guests.

I always know that things will get better. For one, I wasn't like this until I was in my late 20's, so....
  

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