I am still seeking my mother's approval: An update

Postby Petakash » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:36 am

Hi guys, this is an update on my journey with a little back history of why I made that first post.

Sunday December 11, 2016 I posted in the group that I am still seeking my mother’s approval in everything that I do. Even though yes I am an adult and I have always wanted her blessing in all that I do. Lately going through my journey, I have seen the other side of my mother, who would rather be happy that I did what she said or “advised” but would make me miserable. Yep, I would be miserable. I used to think that if I did what my mother wanted I would feel loved and appreciated, as she has shown my brother. However, that hardly was the case. My mother had instilled in me, a severe case of insecurity and self-doubt and never knew why I had always doubted myself and my abilities. I had often wished that I was more confident like others. I had suffered from low self-esteem and I always knew my brother was my mother’s pride and joy, and even though she has denied it, it was clear. Even persons who were coming to my house the first time, saw that my mother treated my brother like a royal prince and me like Cinderella. In 2015, I wanted to take a trip to see the family and I told my mother that I wanted to go. Everyone was traveling, my mother, my brother and his girlfriend. I have had family members, whom I have not seen since I was a child, and in my teen years and I wanted to go see them. I told my mother my plans and like always my mother had something negative to say. My mother said to me, “you would rather put yourself in debt for a trip rather than putting yourself in debt for your education.” Everyone funded their trip with money out of pocket, but I had to borrow.
I only applied to do my masters at the local university just to get my mother off my back. Yes, I want a masters, but I knew wasn’t ready. I had just completed my post graduate diploma and I just wanted to earn and save money to start building a life of my own, pay off my loan at the time and finally just enjoy my life. My mother’s saying is this, “you are young and you have no children, so do it now, and then you can have your children and your life when you are done.” I wanted to make a name, as well as just get some experience in the workplace, but my mother was always there with her “you not going to sign up for the masters” so I just did it to get her off my back. When my application got approved and I got in and yes she was happy. But I realized that I really don’t want to do my masters in Jamaica where I live. I wanted to do something different and do it in another country. I wanted to do just that and the more I thought of the idea is the more excited I got. When the opportunity arise, I thought my mother would be happy and accepting of the fact that I wanted to go overseas to study and that I got in, alas the case was no. She wanted me to go to the local university out here. When asked why not overseas, my mother said she had the money for here.
When I told my mother of my plans, the first thing my mother asked is how I was going to fund it. She asked me if I was going to strip/prostitute myself to go to school overseas. I was floored. I would not expect my mother or any parent to ask such a question. I still wanted her support and her approval but I wasn’t getting it. My mother thought that she was right in saying that, but that damaged me. How can a parent look at their child and ask them such a question? She said to me, “if I came to her with proof, then maybe she would help me.” I did it this way, because I did not want her to talk me out of it and I wanted to do this on my but I thought she would be proud of me for taking the initiative she said I am lying. As time went on, I kept on asking her for her help, wishing that she could give me her approval and say I am proud of you for taking the initiative of wanting to go to school. I am here for you. But never in my journey, did my mother utter those words. The words my mother uttered to me, were: sly, cunning, manipulator, thief, scam artist, covetous and the biggest one, liar. I would be crying and saying no, and begging for her help, still with tears in my eyes but she would never believe me. She thought I am out to scam her out of her, money, but my funds have been depleted in my preparation for my transition and when something would pop up I would be tearing out my hair and wondering where am I going to get the money to pay for it and what I should do.
It feels good to make that first step out. I have shed tears, shed weight, and tore my hair out. I have learnt to survive on less than $2usd per day. I have cut out extra spending. I haven’t really bought anything much for myself because this is a journey I want to take. An opportunity of a life time,that only comes once. I would love to study in a different country, and I have always wanted to go to school in the states but, my mother would say that she doesn’t have the money for me to go. Or her lovely comment “why do you want to follow your cousins. Their parents have it, I don’t.” I know the great sacrifice my aunt and uncle have made for my cousins to study overseas. I have done things that I would never thought I would do to get what I needed. I have taken out two loans, repaid loans and borrowed loans. My mother have once said to me, if I was going to the local university, I would not be in debt nor in this financial turmoil. She also said I would be in debt up to my eyeballs. That did not sit well with me and it caused me to react negatively towards my mother. My mother said I embarrassed her when I went to family members and beg them for money to help me cover some costs and I should feel embarrassed that I am begging people for help. When I needed help, my mother looked at me and said why should I help you? I would be in tears begging her for assistance, because I really want to go. I have borrowed from friends and I have begged strangers for help. Before, my pride wouldn’t allow me to do this, but going through this sojourn journey, have taught me that pride is not a good thing. Pride will not get you anywhere. TLC said it best “I ain’t to proud to beg”
The moment I stopped caring about my mother and her words was on Monday night. She said this to me “Why should I care about your dreams. You don’t care about me nor my money.” I have never once in my life thought I would hear my mother care more about money than her own child. My own mother who gave birth to me, would care less if she shattered my dreams. That was the when the switch to my emotions flipped off where my mother is concern. I have grown up in the past two months more so, in the past days. I have showed tenacity, backbone and grit. I am not the girl my mother expects to do her bidding. I have stepped out on my own and though sometimes I have been finding it difficult with my funds being depleted, I have made it thus far. I have learnt that pride is a big detractor. I look at her and said to myself. I come to you and you call me a liar, why should I come back to you. Sometimes I have to go back to her for monetary help. She still calls me a liar, and she still calls me a scam artist. But I don’t let that stop me from achieving my goals and my dreams.
I have several things to do in Jamaica before I leave. I have set up my gofundme page, with a target goal of $1,700 to help me with my ticket and money for a couple of weeks, when I get over there. I am not so sure if I will be able to access the funds while I am in Jamaica, but I have set it up to help me anyway. An opportunity to study for my masters overseas only comes knocking once, and I would rather starve to get the chance to see this opportunity realized.
To the person that is reading this out there, don’t fret and don’t worry. Your time will come to shine. The day when you switch off that switch in your head of seeking others approval that will come the day you least expect it. Taking that first step may seem shaky and unstable, but it will be the most thrilling feeling you would experience.
Petakash
Junior Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:35 am
Likes Received: 1


#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:53 pm

It is great that you have such a strong desire to accomplish a goal, studying overseas. It is also great that you recognize that another person's opinion should not necessarily detract you from your goals.

Good for you. Sounds like great progress.

What you still need to work on is believing your mother should pay even $1 for you to study. It is her money, not yours. If you are old enough to study abroad, she has done her job in raising and supporting you. Whatever she is willing to provide you is a gift for which you should be grateful. But, your post does not come across as grateful at all, but rather full of spite and anger that your mother won't give you money to do what you want.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 8418
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 828

#2

Postby Petakash » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:23 pm

Thank you Richard for your response and insight. Yes, my post may come across being spiteful and anger and may come across as impulsive, but this is how I have been feeling for the past 35 years of my life. I have always thought my mother did not love me enough or even be proud of who I am as a person or accomplished. I thought that I would have to do what she wanted me to do. There were days that she would make me feel guilty for not doing what she wanted me to do.

Richard, I have lived this life for the past 35 years, and now that I have taken a step on my own, marching to my own intuition and beat, it is like I am getting a fight from her. If I say this is what I want to do, my mother will find every excuse to say why my plan will not work, which would cause me to doubt my plans and say that they are not going to work. Then when she sees I am not backing down, she will input herself in the decision process. So in essence, I will still end up doing what she wanted me to do in the first place.

Her money is her money, I don't begrudge her for her money nor do I want her money. I need her help. I have done most of the heavy lifting on my own. There are days I pray that things will go according to plan and there are no surprises but there are days when there are surprises, and I have to be asking what am I to do.
I am uncovering alot of hurt, pain and old grief. I am in a place where I just can't take it anymore. I am at a place where if she wants to support me, then that is up to her, if not, it is ok. I am fine with my decisions.
Petakash
Junior Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:35 am
Likes Received: 1

#3

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:40 pm

Petakash wrote: I need her help.

...I am at a place where if she wants to support me, then that is up to her, if not, it is ok. I am fine with my decisions.


You are 35.

You can't have it both ways where you need her help, but don't want that help to have any expectations. If you need her help, then she has a right to put stipulations on that help, e.g. provide funds for local school instead of to Jamaica. It sounds like your mother has reasons she doesn't want to support her 35 year old abroad.

If you want to study abroad, that should be 100% your cost.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 8418
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 828

#4

Postby Petakash » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:28 am

Ok. I am 35, and I cannot have it both ways. However, what I am saying is this. She is not supporting me overseas for school, that is not the case. I am not being a whiny child where mommy has to support me. I am saying is this, this is my dream support my decision. Don't look at me and ask me if I am going to whore myself out to get what I want.
Petakash
Junior Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:35 am
Likes Received: 1

#5

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:38 am

Petakash wrote:Ok. I am 35, and I cannot have it both ways. However, what I am saying is this. She is not supporting me overseas for school, that is not the case. I am not being a whiny child where mommy has to support me. I am saying is this, this is my dream support my decision. Don't look at me and ask me if I am going to whore myself out to get what I want.


I agree the whore comment is strong language. But, I have a difficult time believing this was the very first time your mother has dealt with your request for support. More than likely, she has dealt with similar requests from you and has asked how you plan to pay or how you plan to realize your dreams. Again and again you have had similar conversations and this time she had enough and as a human, frustrated with a 35 year old with a dream, she used strong language to ask a simple question, "How will you pay?"

And when you say you have a gofund me page, that just demonstrates you are incapable of supporting yourself. You require others to provide you the money. Why? If you want to realize your dream it requires earning it, not begging for it. At 35, not having enough discretionary income for a plane ticket, let alone housing, food, tuition, etc. shows you lack decision making skills.

if I'm your parent, I'm equally as frustrated as your mother. It must be very frustrating for her to watch her 35 year old without the means to even buy a plane ticket try to beg others to send them to Jamaica where then the 35 year old has no means to support themselves.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 8418
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 828

#6

Postby Roady » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:12 am

Hi,
If I may add my few thoughts....

The subject here is "you still need your moms approval".
When I read your post, you are definitely dependent on your mom's yes or no. But that wasn't what you really want right?

The whole case where you should have your study doesn't matter at all.
It only shows the fact that you still are dependent.

You want to become more independent from her right?
Than start making decisions on your own without asking your mother for approval. At all!! Just stop it.
Decide for yourself and .... then go. Maybe you have success, great.
Maybe you fail. Again great, because if you fail, you still made that decision for yourself.

Again I want to say: you are the one who have to break free emotionally from your mother on your way to adulthood.
And oh, as long as your choices are just another way to prove something to your mom, then please don't make that decision, because it will not bring you the adulthood you are longing for.
You are just asking your mom: "Am I good enough now for you to love me?"

It may not be wrong if you talk to a counselor about this. Because there is a deep rooted fear in your heart which you have to overcome to become free from your mother.

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:if I'm your parent, I'm equally as frustrated as your mother. It must be very frustrating for her to watch her 35 year old without the means to even buy a plane ticket try to beg others to send them to Jamaica where then the 35 year old has no means to support themselves.

Maybe you 're right, but if the mother never bought a plane ticket herself.....

I wonder how adult the mother is herself. Adult, well-grown up mothers don't treat their son like babies.
They should treat their son like adult, pushing and encourage him to live and life.
The fact that there is such a strong dependent mother-son-relationship of course tell us much about the mother herself.
Roady
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:21 pm
Likes Received: 28

#7

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:20 pm

Roady wrote:I wonder how adult the mother is herself. Adult, well-grown up mothers don't treat their son like babies.
They should treat their son like adult, pushing and encourage him to live and life.
The fact that there is such a strong dependent mother-son-relationship of course tell us much about the mother herself.


First a small correction. I believe I misspoke that the OP wants to study in Jamaica, rather than leave and study abroad. Regardless, the OP has no money and wants to leave and study abroad without having any means.

I agree with you Roady. The OP's writings does allow for us to speculate about the mother. So, how do we calculate that speculation into any advice provided to a 35 year old? What about the influence and teachings of the father, school teachers, neighbors, siblings, grandparents, mentors, friends, coworkers, teammates, coaches, therapists, etc?

At what point...or I guess it is better to ask to what extent do we focus on the speculative influence of a mother as an enabler of bad choices, verses focusing on the OP as being responsible for themselves? I don't have an exact answer or formula.

Personally, when a young teen posts a question I have more empathy as legally they are bound to the parent. They have no life experience, they live with the parent. A young adult, they are just getting out of the home and I understand the influence and enabling behaviors of a parent. Past the age of 20? 25? 30? At what point do I begin to lack empathy?

As I said I have no exact formula, but in this case my empathy for a 35 year old is much less than it would be for a teenager. Maybe I'm wrong, but the OP discusses a brother that afforded a trip, but he borrowed. The OP discusses a perceived disparity of treatment with his brother. Are we to believe the mother pushes one child out of the nest, but enables the other to remain suckling on her tit?

I like your thought process. I am right there with you regarding the role of the mother in all of this. But, I don't trust the biased perspective of the OP. And at the age of 35 I choose to focus on the accountability and responsibility of the 35 year old, of the OP.

I guess my fear is that the OP wants to be enabled. The OP is posting in hopes to hear and be reinforced about the faults of the mother. The more we use the information provided by the OP to speculate about those potential faults, the more the OP feels justified in feeling hurt. And the mother is not here to defend herself. We are getting strictly a one sided perspective of the mother.

@Petakash

Roady has provided great advice. I got off track from the original theme of the thread. You are obviously still clinging and wanting the support of your mother. Even if the support you want is strictly emotional, to support your dream of studying abroad.

You are 35. You are no longer allowed to blame another person for your failures or your success in life. Focusing on your mother, brother, etc. is just a distraction.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 8418
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 828

#8

Postby Roady » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:05 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:I agree with you Roady. The OP's writings does allow for us to speculate about the mother. So, how do we calculate that speculation into any advice provided to a 35 year old? What about the influence and teachings of the father, school teachers, neighbors, siblings, grandparents, mentors, friends, coworkers, teammates, coaches, therapists, etc?

I wasn't mean to talk about the mother in a bad way or whatever.
The reason why I mentioned it, is that it can help the OP to understand what is going on.

For example, if the mother has never bought a flying ticket herself, so, never made such a journey, what can you expect from the children?
In other words, if the parent(s) is raised by/with fear, they raised their children with fear as well.
So to me it's no surprise that a 35 old is struggling with things like this.
As an ex-addict I know that I can hide myself for years.
When I decided to come alive again, sometimes it feels to me if I am only 18 in stead of 42. During all those years, I was too afraid for doing certain things (on certain terrains). Now I have faced the inner pain, I don't feel the fear any more so I can build up my life on a different base than fear. Oh man, what a pleasure is that :)
So emotionally people can freeze in a certain way, until they develop further from the point where the frozing begun.

In my opinion this whole topic is about fear. Nothing else.
All I can read is that the world is too insecure for the OP to spread his wings and fly away.
So he has to deal with this inner insecurity on one side, and let the object where this security should have come from (his mother) go on the other side. And that is not a tiny thing to do.
Actually it's very paradoxical.

At what point...or I guess it is better to ask to what extent do we focus on the speculative influence of a mother as an enabler of bad choices, verses focusing on the OP as being responsible for themselves? I don't have an exact answer or formula.

In my opinion, when somebody has reached the age of 35 he IS already responsible for his own life, wanting or not.
He just IS. He is now waking up to TAKE that responsibility. For him it's the right time, so that's oke to me.
It's important for the OP to make a distinguish between his responsibility and his mothers.
Because the mother should not change because of a healthy relationship, he has to take the responsibility to keep himself healthy and build up a healthy, productive life, according to his own feelings, wishes, longings, convictions etc.

Personally, when a young teen posts a question I have more empathy as legally they are bound to the parent. They have no life experience, they live with the parent. A young adult, they are just getting out of the home and I understand the influence and enabling behaviors of a parent. Past the age of 20? 25? 30? At what point do I begin to lack empathy?

Well, that's totally up to you. As long as you can see things obviously, you shouldn't give up empathy to anyone.

As I said I have no exact formula, but in this case my empathy for a 35 year old is much less than it would be for a teenager. Maybe I'm wrong, but the OP discusses a brother that afforded a trip, but he borrowed. The OP discusses a perceived disparity of treatment with his brother. Are we to believe the mother pushes one child out of the nest, but enables the other to remain suckling on her tit?

I know what you try to say here (I think).
I can understand that somebody is becoming conscious in a certain way and maybe for the first time in life he is sharing some of his feelings about this important issue. I mean, for him it is important.
As this is his topic, who am I to judge somebody? The least thing I can do is to share some thoughts hoping that the OP is making one little step further in his process.

I like your thought process. I am right there with you regarding the role of the mother in all of this. But, I don't trust the biased perspective of the OP. And at the age of 35 I choose to focus on the accountability and responsibility of the 35 year old, of the OP.

Of course Richard, you should do that with an 35 years old.
But I think there is a big gap between your vision and the way the OP is experiencing it.
Therefor I try to look inside what is happening.
If somebody looks for approval of his mom (knowing that the mother-son relationship is the most important and most close relationship) I know that there are other things going on.


I guess my fear is that the OP wants to be enabled. The OP is posting in hopes to hear and be reinforced about the faults of the mother. The more we use the information provided by the OP to speculate about those potential faults, the more the OP feels justified in feeling hurt. And the mother is not here to defend herself. We are getting strictly a one sided perspective of the mother.


I would like to add:
We can speculate or not, but the OP is the only one who can tell us if we are right or wrong.
I don't have the need to solve his problem. He has to do that. I hope that the advises here can help him a bit to grow further in his adulthood.
Roady
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:21 pm
Likes Received: 28

#9

Postby Petakash » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:58 pm

Thank you for explaining it that way Roady. You have pointed posters in the right direction. Firstly, I am a female, the person my brother whom I refer to, has been the apple of my mother's eye. Many persons outside my family have noticed the treatment that is meted out. My mother and brother do have a close relationship, and yes my mother enables my brother in a lot of things. Things that I would not dream of doing but she allows him to do it.

I live in Jamaica, and to study overseas is an opportunity one would love to have. When the opportunity presented itself I looked at the pros and cons, the pros outweighed th cons and I made that decision to go for it. I work 9-5 however in Jamaica, persons can't really have a second job unless you are in a specialized field. Believe me I would love to have had a second job where I can supplement my income. But the legitimate online jobs are only for US/Canadian Residents only, and for me in the Caribbean has a slim chance. I have adequately prepared myself, borrowing loans putting myself in financial crisis, to achieve this dream.

The incident of purchasing tickets to travel was one in which the disparity was shown. My brother and mother were able to fund their tickets out of pocket, where I on the other hand had to borrow to pay for it. My mother did say to me, "you wouldn't even put yourself in debt for your education, but you would put yourself in debt for just a trip." Mind you, this trip was one that I was planning to take long before everyone else planned theirs. I saw the situation and statement as being unfair in my eyes. Why am I being told in no uncertain terms to stay home when everyone has taken a trip? That statement was unfair and I did not ask for any help in funding my trip, I just told her, I am going for Thanksgiving.

Richard, you asked about extended family. My father wasn't in the picture, and even when he came around or so, he was not of much support at all. I am not close to siblings, nor other relatives, did not have much mentors growing up. My mother would give the glossy feel of everything is alright at home, when it was far from it. When I sought counseling, I asked her to come with me, so we can have a mediator to air the concerns that I have, she would say she is fine and she doesn't need counseling. So I would go to counseling by myself trying to work on me, but the problems at home would still exist.

When I mention my gofundme to purchase my ticket and to cover expenses for the first weeks, I am asking persons and appealing to humanity to help support a dream of mine to come to a reality. The groundwork has been lain but with all my monies spent in acquiring school fees, living expenses and other add-ons, I have depleted my personal funds/resources. I have asked persons if they can help but to no avail. So I placed it out there in the internet world asking for help. I cannot take another loan with my paycheck. It was confirmed by my accounting department. I don't have family who are willing to lend a helping hand so to speak.
Petakash
Junior Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:35 am
Likes Received: 1

#10

Postby Roady » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:40 am

Good morning Petakash,

I apologize for calling you man. Thanks for the correction, because it do make sense.

It is very miserable to read that you are not feeling as a part of your familiy.
You are talking about your wish to get some money so you can by that fly ticket. (as a try to prove yourself)
Can you point the finger to the real problem for instead?
In my opinion you are talking about the symptoms of your problem.
Can you see what your real problem is? And do you see a way to work on it?
Roady
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:21 pm
Likes Received: 28

#11

Postby Petakash » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:38 pm

That's ok Roady. The root cause of the problem. My mother enables my brother for acting out and getting away with things. She will give support readily, and if he needs something she will get it for him. For me, she has supported me, yes, but later she will complain about it. If you did this, if you did that then you will not be here. Roady, she has made me feel guilty about my decisions, even hurt and shame. This is the first time I really made a decision, that does not involve her and I refuse to allow her to make me feel guilty over it.
My dreams are in my hand, I have been sitting down feeling sorry for myself and I refuse to do so. Roady my time to shine is now, and I really need the help to fund my ticket, but asking for help from family, its not so.
Petakash
Junior Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:35 am
Likes Received: 1

#12

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:37 pm

Petakash wrote:...The root cause of the problem.

My dreams are in my hand, I have been sitting down feeling sorry for myself and I refuse to do so. Roady my time to shine is now, and I really need the help to fund my ticket, but asking for help from family, its not so.


@Petakash,

Do you believe beggars achieve their dreams?

Remove your family from the equation. Your dreams are in your hand. How do you plan to turn your dream into a reality? Other than begging and other than family, how can you get the money you need for a ticket?
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 8418
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 828

#13

Postby Petakash » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:52 pm

Yes they do Richard. If you look at most of the persons who have multi million/billion business have actually begged friends, family and other persons to get a headstart, yet still were turned down. So they went to others. All they wanted was someone to believe in them, and give them a helping hand. That is all.

That is why I started my gofundme account Richard. I am asking for persons to help me realize my dreams because it is important to me.
Petakash
Junior Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:35 am
Likes Received: 1

#14

Postby Roady » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:33 pm

That's ok Roady. The root cause of the problem. My mother enables my brother for acting out and getting away with things. She will give support readily, and if he needs something she will get it for him. For me, she has supported me, yes, but later she will complain about it. If you did this, if you did that then you will not be here. Roady, she has made me feel guilty about my decisions, even hurt and shame.

To become closer to the solution of the real problem, you have to zoom in onto this factors.

Please explain further why exactly do you feel guilty because of your own decisions.
You try to make decisions and the result of talking with your mother is shame?

You have to see how misleading,twisting, manipulation and projecting works.
Do you see what I mean?
Roady
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:21 pm
Likes Received: 28


Next

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Psychology