you were always in my way

#15

Postby TheCloud » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:27 pm

That's what I think your wife might need, and probably other people in your life as well. Your interactions with others seem to be quite demanding, implicitly if not explicitly. Be fair, be reasonable, don't eat meat, don't drink, don't do drugs. You might be right, but that's not the only thing that's important. It's also important that people listen to you when you're right. If people aren't listening to you, then that's a solid indicator that communication has broken down.

If you aren't listening for what people need, and mainly focus on arguing back against them, it makes you very difficult to deal with. This also applies to yourself, which is to say, your own needs may go unmet because you are halfway deaf to them.

There's a process called Nonviolent Communication (NVC) which I think you can come to appreciate very much. It requires practice to be effective, but it's simple and can be practiced immediately. It has 4 steps; observe the facts, listen for feelings, listen for needs, and make requests. The guy who invented it, Marshall Rosenberg, has done everything from counseling married couples to mediating between warring tribes in the Middle East, using this process. It's a method which makes it possible for you to understand what is important to others, and for others to learn what is necessary for you.

First, observe the facts of the situation. What are you, or the other person, thinking or talking about? Most people have a lot of practice beating around the bush, especially when it comes to sensitive issues, so this can be tricky to nail down. Just take your time and make sure everyone is talking about the same thing.

Second, ask about feelings. Feelings, as in emotions. Anger is a feeling. Stupid is not a feeling. Stupid is a judgment, and judgments are not feelings. Try to be specific; frustrated, furious, and grumpy are all various forms of anger which might more accurately describe what a person is feeling.

Third, ask about needs. Behind every negative feeling, there is an unmet need. If you feel hungry, you need food. If you feel sad, maybe you need a hug. Sometimes all someone needs is to have their feelings listened to. Sometimes, their needs can be very challenging.

Fourth, make requests. If a specific need is identified, and not met simply by talking about it, then a person can make a request. A request is a positive statement. As Rosenberg's book on NVC says, you can't do a don't. If you want someone to stop eating meat, you have to give them an alternative. It's the same with anything; if you want them to stop one thing, you have to ask them to start something else that replaces it.

There's a whole lot more to NVC than what I'm explaining. There are a lot of free resources on the internet, including Youtube, and books if you're interested. I believe that a knowledge of NVC can help you with the difficulties you are having in explaining your ideas to others.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nonviolent+communication
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#16

Postby quietvoice » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:07 am

I'm reading back on your posts here because I looked at your current post about your daughter.

Hey, Mystic, I'm totally with you on the eating animals issue. Stand up for that, but don't expect others to see what you see just because you figured it out before they did. You can only stand as an example to others, and leave it at that. Possibly, if they allow you to do this, you can tell them how keeping to a (total) plant-based diet is more beneficial to them. I have a close friend who is a Bible believer and insists because of certain beliefs of his from what he's read in the Bible, that it's okay for him to eat meat. And my mother, she's doesn't live near me, so I'm not exposed to watching her eat, but again, because of her (non-religious) beliefs, she's not giving up eating her meat. Both my mother and my friend, though, have increased their consumption of fruits and vegetables. Step by step, my friend. We can't make someone else change their beliefs or belief system; we can only point the way.

I quit religion because I realised as much as I believed in one religion, there are 4500 other recognized religions in the world and all their practitioners believe in their religious as much as the next guy.

I'm sorry but this made me shake my head. If you were being facetious, maybe you should have said so, but this makes me doubt your other words. Don't you know that this is a fact that can be checked out, for instance at this link?

My wife In the heat of the moment admitted that she drinks to forget. She drinks because she "doesn't want to be here".

Why are you living with a drunk? Perhaps, your major "problem" in life is that you cannot or do not know how to make decisions in accordance with the reality of the situation, where the outcome is of a positive nature instead of a butt-kicking negative one. I'm not the one to teach you how, nor to direct you in a good direction for that. I'm just saying that I think that is where the problem lies. (Although, Richard may be able to help you.)
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#17

Postby Mystic323 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:59 pm

quiet voice: "Don't you know that this is a fact that can be checked out, for instance at this link?"
just because 2 poeple do something, doesnt mean its right. Just because millions do something, doesnt mean its right. Look at the millions who followed Hitler for example. In their minds, they thought it was right, OR they felt there was no other way (even if they thought it was wrong). Most poeple simply follow the herd like sheep but this does not make it right. Doing nothing, saying nothing, letting something go on, turning your head, does not make it right. If you saw a group of people who had tied a dog to a fence and they were taking turns whipping rocks at it until it was dead, would you do anything or would you just turn away? Would you think, "well, it's their opinion, it's their choice, let them torture and kill the dog" No, this is why we as vegans stand up and do something. I don't think a quiet voice is always the best option.
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#18

Postby quietvoice » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:10 pm

Mystic323 wrote:just because . . .

You missed my point. I was saying that you had said there are 4500 recognized religions; I was saying, um, not only did that sound doubtful to me, when I searched about it I found that the number came to less than 1/2 of 1 percent of that number (that were listed on that website in particular). If you were trying to be funny, I understand. I didn't pick up that you were.

Mystic323 wrote: I don't think a quiet voice is always the best option.

I agree in that context. Recently, I found a speaker named Mark Passio. He talks about how generally we have become a culture of master-slaves. Master says jump, and the ORDER FOLLOWERS follow orders, whatever they may be. This needs to be changed by each of us learning about and becoming a more balanced thinker-actor, (in the order follower case) moving toward the holistic right-brain, but not so far that you take no action, which is just as detrimental to ourselves. Balance!

I didn't pick that name in that context, though.
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#19

Postby Mystic323 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:05 pm

This page says 4200. I've seen others with over 5000.... and every religion believes it is the be all and end all. People get so hung up in these fables, they are willing to kill themselves and others.

ok, I tried to post a link to the page but this website says "Your post looks too spamy for a new user, please remove off-site URLs."

look up the article "List of religions and spiritual traditions" on wikipedia
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#20

Postby quietvoice » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:02 pm

Okay. Thank you, Mystic.
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