Resignation Syndrome

Postby Theorease » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:03 pm

For nearly two decades Sweden has been battling a mysterious illness. Called Resignation Syndrome, it affects only the children of asylum-seekers, who withdraw completely, ceasing to walk or talk, or open their eyes. Eventually they recover. But why does this only seem to occur in Sweden?


Wow...this is completely terrifying...why only Sweden? Must be something in the culture/environment...but what?
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:16 am

IMO it is not terrifying at all, but rather very sad and unfortunate. Children are a vulnerable population. Pick whichever factor you wish to be the primary cause from the below study. In my opinion, the primary place to look is with the primary caregivers. The parents are seeking asylum, the child has no expectations outside of those provided by the parents.

This syndrome mimics a response to a set of beliefs promoted by a subculture, similar to isolated historical events such as witchcraft and/or voodoo. A classic case study is the Salem Witch Trials. Only in hindsight do we see what took place in Salem as rather irrational. At the time however, it was a form of sociocultural induced pathology that for those living the situation was very real.

pg.3 of the research study

“An official inquiry (Hessle and Ahmadi, 2006) and an expert committee (Rydelius, 2006) have both proposed multifactorial explanatory models involving individual vulnerability, traumatization, migration, culturally conditioned reaction patterns and parental dysfunction or pathological adaption to a caregiver’s expectations to interplay in pathogenesis.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731541/
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#2

Postby Theorease » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:03 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:IMO it is not terrifying at all, but rather very sad and unfortunate.

Well, I find the suffering and potential suffering of children terrifying; so I think that's a semantic distinction.

Children are a vulnerable population.

They are especially vulnerable yes IMO.


Pick whichever factor you wish to be the primary cause from the below study.

Thanks for letting me do that lol

In my opinion, the primary place to look is with the primary caregivers. The parents are seeking asylum, the child has no expectations outside of those provided by the parents.

So the parent's are influenced by the Swedish environment and influence the children in a bad way because of that effect? ONLY Sweden remember.

This syndrome mimics a response to a set of beliefs promoted by a subculture, similar to isolated historical events such as witchcraft and/or voodoo. A classic case study is the Salem Witch Trials. Only in hindsight do we see what took place in Salem as rather irrational. At the time however, it was a form of sociocultural induced pathology that for those living the situation was very real.

Er..ummmm...it's not really quite like cat burning or slavery or witch hunting IMO...it's more of an involuntary (sic) autonomic response.


“An official inquiry (Hessle and Ahmadi, 2006) and an expert committee (Rydelius, 2006) have both proposed multifactorial explanatory models involving individual vulnerability, traumatization, migration, culturally conditioned reaction patterns and parental dysfunction or pathological adaption to a caregiver’s expectations to interplay in pathogenesis.”

Yeah they really hit the nail on the head there didn't they :roll:
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#3

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:29 pm

Theorease wrote:Er..ummmm...it's not really quite like cat burning or slavery or witch hunting IMO...it's more of an involuntary (sic) autonomic response.


This is where we (society as a whole) always tend to get it wrong. Hindsight bias, where in retrospect it was obvious or we believe should have been obvious, and therefore something like witchcraft, voodoo, or faith healing can’t be an involuntary (sic) autonomic response. These are all just fakers, right?

I disagree. The reason we see this syndrome only in Sweden is the same reason we see people going into a catatonic zombie trance in Haiti, and the same reason we saw “witches” in Salem, etc. Facing the stress of being labeled a witch, facing torture and then death could have triggered involuntary autonomic responses, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Anyway, why these pathologies in only these specific locations? I realize voodoo, witchcraft, and faith healing are more widespread, but we can narrow in on certain geographic locations. People going into catatonic voodoo states doesn’t happen in Sweden, why? Because people in Sweden don’t buy into the voodoo beliefs, there is no voodoo subculture in Sweden that promotes such conditions that can trigger the involuntary autonomic response.

If a subculture of Haiti went to Sweden, you might start seeing voodoo involuntary autonomic responses. Then the question would be, why is Sweden causes these issues? Why only in Sweden? Research would discover the subculture brought the prerequisite belief system with them, but to say that would be declared xenophobic. Blame would need to be distributed as we can’t possibly be found guilty of such a politically incorrect view as xenophobia.

IMO, this is why the researchers are very careful in the study to list all the causes. And they are correct to do so. That is solid research. But, what is the primary cause? Where is the point of leverage in the problem? Is the point of leverage changing the Swedish system, or is the point of leverage in challenging the “dysfunctional parents” and the expectations they place on their children?
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#4

Postby Theorease » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:59 pm

hmmmmm...you make some interesting points Richard. I can't really reply properly until I'm allowed to post links so I will then. I will say however that you seem to think that the witches really were witches; that the faith healers really were faith healers and that voodoo really is effective. I'm a little apprehensive about those statements although psychogenic effects are indeed powerful sounds a bit like woo to me : /
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#5

Postby Theorease » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:36 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:The reason we see this syndrome only in Sweden is the same reason we see people going into a catatonic zombie trance in Haiti, and the same reason we saw “witches” in Salem, etc. Facing the stress of being labeled a witch, facing torture and then death could have triggered involuntary autonomic responses, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Oh so confident :roll: the study you mentioned didn't identify that as a possible cause, and although I do think iatrogenic suggestion can lead to psychogenic effects I think that HIGHLY unlikely in this case because they are foreign children (ie. relatively ignorant of the Swedish condition) and resignation syndrome is relatively obscure.....and it come's on out of the blue as it were - there's no shaman dancing by the fire waving his maracas for 6 hours before onset.
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:48 pm

Theorease wrote: I will say however that you seem to think that the witches really were witches; that the faith healers really were faith healers and that voodoo really is effective.


No, I don’t believe. That is a key term, a “belief” or set of beliefs. I was not raised in a culture that has me believing in witches.

I’m saying that we have both historical and empirical evidence that psychogenic effects can occur based on a system of beliefs. If a person, especially a child, is brought up believing in witches, believing in voodoo, hears stories about it, watches an exorcism or sees “witches” burned at the stake, etc. it may result in psychogenic effects.

As far as my confidence, I’m simply using analogical reasoning. This doesn’t mean the Sweden case is exactly analogous to Haiti, or exactly analogous to the year 1692. We certainly can always find differences and if we want, we can use those differences to completely dismiss similarities.

...there is no shaman dancing by the fire


No, just parents telling their children day after day after day how if they don’t receieve asylum all sorts of nightmares will come true.
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#7

Postby quietvoice » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:09 pm

Theorease wrote:Wow...this is completely terrifying...why only Sweden? Must be something in the culture/environment...but what?

Why bother asking? What difference does it make if everything, in your view, happens mechanically, without the choice to make it better or worse? What is the point in gaining knowledge of anything, anyway?
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#8

Postby Theorease » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 pm

Just because it's not a choice to make things better or worse doesn't mean my brain doesn't make me feel empathetic and direct me to attempt to increase pleasure and decrease pain...
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#9

Postby quietvoice » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:47 pm

Theorease wrote:Just because it's not a choice to make things better or worse doesn't mean my brain doesn't make me feel empathetic and direct me to attempt to increase pleasure and decrease pain...

How do champions become champions, and not wallow in the non-championhood of the majority of people? A lot of champions came from the same place as those who stay stuck. Why is that so?
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#10

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:00 pm

Theorease wrote:Just because it's not a choice to make things better or worse doesn't mean my brain doesn't make me feel empathetic and direct me to attempt to increase pleasure and decrease pain...


A determinist in our midst?
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#11

Postby Theorease » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:02 am

quietvoice wrote:
Theorease wrote:Just because it's not a choice to make things better or worse doesn't mean my brain doesn't make me feel empathetic and direct me to attempt to increase pleasure and decrease pain...

How do champions become champions, and not wallow in the non-championhood of the majority of people? A lot of champions came from the same place as those who stay stuck. Why is that so?


Because environmental and genetic differences aren't homogeneous. Also, somebody's gotta be champion.
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#12

Postby Theorease » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:02 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Theorease wrote:Just because it's not a choice to make things better or worse doesn't mean my brain doesn't make me feel empathetic and direct me to attempt to increase pleasure and decrease pain...


A determinist in our midst?


Damn straight.
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#13

Postby quietvoice » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 pm

Theorease wrote:
Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:A determinist in our midst?

Damn straight.

Would you say that you have a consciousness that is conscious of everything that is, right now, or would you say that you may not be conscious of everything that is, right now, but that you as time goes along you become conscious of more and more of the everything, i.e., that you don't know everything, there's always more to learn?
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#14

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:14 pm

Theorease wrote:Wow...this is completely terrifying...why only Sweden? Must be something in the culture/environment...but what?


According to your belief system you already know the answer, it was predestined. So why are you asking such a question? Oh, that’s right, it was also predestined as will any response you “choose” errr, I mean that you are predestined to give.

Unless...maybe you were predestined to believe in the existence of an extraterrestrial species, aliens capable of volitional acts. Then your belief system would support asking, “why only in Sweden?” You might have been predestined to recognize that possibly Sweden was not predestined, but instead some volitional influence is involved, modifying these poor children’s destiny. How unfair, how terrifying that free will might alter the predetermined path for these children.
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