My dad doesn't want to see the truth

Postby Romgar13 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:35 am

How can i make him face the truth ?
So, for the context: I lost my mom 5 years ago and am now living with my father and brother. 2 or 3 ago, my dad finally decided to rebuild his life. After several encounters, he met 1 year ago this woman who is the center of my question.

So since she has arrived in our life, we've tried with my family to integrate her as well as possible. Now arrives the problem : since the beginning of their relation, this woman just let everything go and i think she's done that all her life. She has absolutely no scrupules to let herself completely at the charge of my father, who must assume her and more or less her 2 girls financially when we live already at three with his only salary. She does not have a job and does not seem motivated to have one and the first thing she tried to do when arriving at our home was to make her daughters (who live in a residential school since their mother couldn't take care of them) come with her when we did not even know them and didn't have the capacity to house them. Now, despite all of this, me and my family tried to integrate her the best we could, but since she participates to family celebrations, there have been several robberies during Christmas or birthdays into the family that still are unexplained and DIDN'T HAPPEN before she arrived . These events have caused major problems with our relatives, with people accusing each other, causing serious trouble for the relations in the family.

Now since these events, we haven't been able to prove the new girlfriend of my dad as the author of all of this and my father refuse to see the verity even if we know that it can only be her. Moreover, this girl is asking my father a LOT of attention and he is providing for ALL of her needs without her moving it an inch. Now that i know her true nature this is my question: How could i force her to make an error that my dad would notice so that he can finally realize who she is and what she really wants ?

Thanks you a lot for reading all of this story, i know it was a bit long but i think it was important to put the entire context in order to understand the situation ^^. if someone have already been in a similar situation or have an idea to take things further, I would thank you a lot to share with me your recommendations :)
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:45 am

How old are you and your brother?
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#2

Postby Romgar13 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:46 am

I'm 18 and my brother is 15
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#3

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:36 pm

Romgar13 wrote: She has absolutely no scrupules to let herself completely at the charge of my father, who must assume her and more or less her 2 girls financially when we live already at three with his only salary.


It is your dad's salary. Let me repeat. It is your dad's salary. This means stop using "WE". You believe that your father didn't have the capacity to house them. You believe your father didn't have the ability to support them. You believe that your father, on his salary is making bad decisions. WE is not part of the equation, because it is only your father who has bought, paid for, and funded your home, bought your food, your clothing, paid for your doctor bills, your schooling, etc. Therefore, if he wants to spend his salary in whatever way he wants, that is up to him. It is not up to you or your brother.

She does not have a job and does not seem motivated to have one and the first thing she tried to do when arriving at our home was to make her daughters (who live in a residential school since their mother couldn't take care of them) come with her when we did not even know them and didn't have the capacity to house them.


Once again, it is not up to you to decide if she needs a job or not. Your father decided to have a relationship with this woman. If he wants to have that conversation about jobs and bills, finances, etc. that is for your father and this woman to discuss. She doesn't have to get a job, because you personally believe that your father must spend his money in ways you approve.

Now that i know her true nature this is my question: How could i force her to make an error that my dad would notice so that he can finally realize who she is and what she really wants ?


If I was your father and found out my son was trying to force someone else to make an error, I would be very disappointed. I would be disappointed that I had raised a son that believed that is the way to behave, to try and force another person to make a mistake. If I discovered that my son at age 18 was doing this, I would have him leave my home, the home I had bought with my money and I would have that 18 year old go earn a living and try to make it on his own, without my support. If my son tried this, it would show disrespect for me, it would show lack of trust and lack of appreciation for all that I had done the previous 18 years to try to help my son become a man. And to think, the boy turned man, what they learned was to try and manipulate a woman into making a mistake. I would be disappointed in myself for raising such a person to think this way.

At 18, I do understand you think your father needs your protection, that your father is spending his money in ways you don't approve. Well, tough. It isn't your money, it isn't your decisions, it isn't your life. Even if you are 100% correct and this woman is not a good choice for your father, it doesn't give you the right to disrespect your father and to act as if he needs your protection, because at 18 you are so much wiser and capable of showing your father the truth of the situation.
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#4

Postby Romgar13 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:30 pm

Ok I clearly approve the fact that my dad makes what he wants with his life, his money and the rest and that I don't have to impact on these things but i have the right to have my opinion on that which i have expressed in order to make you understand the situation. I don't think it gives me any right to impose my opinion or anything which i'm not trying to do at all ( I only gave my opinion to my dad when he ASKED me about it). Then I think I expressed myself in a really bad way and am pretty sorry for this part :
Now that i know her true nature this is my question: How could i force her to make an error that my dad would notice so that he can finally realize who she is and what she really wants ?

The way I phrased it makes think that I want to provoke an error from her in order to make my dad want to stop his relation with her. Ok I totally failed this part, i want you to well understand that I would NEVER take the liberty to impact that negatively my dad's life by deciding if one of his relations must continue or not because I know I have absolutely no right to do so. My point here was that this woman has already done a lot of errors that should have alerted my father (I know that even if it didn't alert him, it's not up to me to decide if it should have but I give you my point of view and I would give it to my father only if he asked me for it). Then, if I rephrased my question, it would give something like : With all the bad things that this woman has already done and that my father refuse to see, How can i open his eyes about the situation ? which catch up with your point : because at 18 you are so much wiser and capable of showing your father the truth of the situation.
That's what I'm trying to do: showing the truth of the situation to my father.
Then I will repeat myself but I wouldn't give myself the permission to act like this if I didn't have some serious reasons. Another missed point is that you think that I want to protect my dad which is not the case because I know it's not my role and because I don't want to. BUT, something I forgot to mention is that my brother who is 15 got robbed of all of his economies for example while this person was living with us and if there is one person that I think I can at least try to protect of this situation, it's him.

So the real point of this post would be: How can I help my dad realize the truth of the situation even when he refuses categorically to see it ?
I don't know if you can help me on this last point but I thank you for having responded
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#5

Postby quietvoice » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:01 pm

Romgar13 wrote:How can I help my dad realize the truth of the situation even when he refuses categorically to see it ?

If only the world was so simple to run such that one person could simply show the truth of the matter to another, and they would be open enough to see that truth and then change their beliefs and behaviors, what a paradise we would enjoy.

Alas, it isn't that simple. I'd like to see the world's population have a certain knowledge of a truth that I am certain would be a vast improvement over what I see now, overall.

If you could let me know how to change a person's belief system without them being ready to hear—how to get a person out of denial of a truth—hey, I'm all ears.
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:25 pm

Romgar13 wrote:So the real point of this post would be: How can I help my dad realize the truth of the situation even when he refuses categorically to see it ?


Okay, fair enough. Let's then rephrase the question to:

"How can I help a person see the truth of a situation, when they refuse to see it?"

This can apply to many situations, to many different cases in life where a person doesn't see "the truth". How can you help a person see "the truth".

Generally speaking there are two ways:

(1) Through a series of cases where evidence is presented again, and again, and again. Each of these cases slowly enlightens the other person to the truth.

(2) Through one major case, once piece of evidence that is so uncontroversial, so strong that it can't be denied.

These two approaches in scientific research are referred to as "conceptual change". It means the way in which people change their concepts about an issue. It could be how a child changes their concept of the shape of the earth. Another example is the way a child changes their concept about believing in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, or monsters under the bed. They start with a belief X (monsters under the bed exist) and through the process of conceptual change, their belief changes to Y (monsters under the bed don't exist).

When your father asks your opinion, you can share your opinion and build the evidence that this woman is not who your father truly believes her to be. Or if you have some big, strong evidence that this woman is so horrible, that to can be presented to your father.

REGARDLESS, there is one big obstacle that you face. Your "truth" about this woman is not the same as monsters under the bed. Your truth is not TRUTH as in some scientific fact that is infallible and without question. Your version of truth can be easily disputed. Your father doesn't have to agree with your version of truth, one simple example being you thinking this woman should work. Should she work, is that the truth? Bull!!!! That is you imposing your "truth" into the situation. That is not truth, that is your prejudiced, personal view of what her role should be in the relationship.

Imagine trying to impose your view of the truth on your father. "Dad, I think this woman should have a job." RIDICULOUS! Who are you to try and decide what this woman needs to do in the relationship!!!!

So, I have tried to be fair and have given you the way in which researchers approach getting others to see "truth" about a situation. They expose individuals to repeated evidence, scaffolding the learning of truth or present an individual with evidence that is undeniably the truth.

But, at the same time I caution you against your own ego. You believe you have "truth" that your father needs to see, but what I see is another truth all together. I see a truth where an 18 year old is trying to impose their version of the truth into the situation. It is a way in which many relationships are damaged or destroyed, trying to impose a version of truth onto another person.
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#7

Postby Romgar13 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:29 pm

Thank you for answering honestly, I see that I'm probably choosing the wrong path when trying to deal with this situation. I'll take it in consideration.
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#8

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:27 pm

Romgar13 wrote:Thank you for answering honestly, I see that I'm probably choosing the wrong path when trying to deal with this situation. I'll take it in consideration.


I was thinking about this a bit more, and think a good approach might be to write down what you consider to be "the truth". What do you know as "the truth"?

-1- She doesn't work, she doesn't have a job, that is the truth.
-2- She brought her daughters with her, that is the truth.

What else is "the truth"? That she should have a job, that she shouldn't have brought her daughters, that it is not how your father should spend his money, those are not "truth" those are just your personal opinions, your feelings.

-3- Your brother was robbed, that is the truth.

This woman did not intentionally or knowingly harm your brother. You said you don't have truth, but rather you suspect because of timing. Maybe it was a daughter, maybe it was a friend of a daughter, maybe it was just coincidence. Regardless, the only truth you have is that your brother was robbed, the rest is your personal opinion and once again it is not a truth.

You definitely seem to have some strong opinions about how this woman and her daughters are suppose to act, what they are suppose to do, how they are suppose to behave. These are not truths, these are simply your personal opinions that you want to impose on the situation. I recommend caution in this regard.
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#9

Postby Romgar13 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Thank you for your help Richard, I think i'll just wait for time to do its job in order to see where all of this lead us. I'll also try to be less demanding with this woman even if I know it'll be quite difficult, the problem being that I wouldn't even mind about all of this story if it didn't have a very negative effect on our family life as a hole and on people whom I love. But I'll try.
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