Mental health in the work place

#15

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed May 30, 2018 6:26 pm

Septimus wrote: I was after differing views and opinions from my original post only. Not interested in contacting HR!


If you are not interested in contacting HR, then what options do you believe you have? I see 3:

-1- Quit
-2- Be vocal.
-3- Be quiet.

I mean, let’s assume that you are 100% correct. Let’s assume people that are not informed/educated about the difference between anxiety and depression should not help, i.e. should be quiet when they observe changes in an employees behavior they find concerning. What are you going to do about it?

Currently it seems like all you will do is vent in here...which is a perfectly healthy strategy, but it doesn’t change your options at work.
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#16

Postby Septimus » Wed May 30, 2018 6:46 pm

Can you not understand I was just interested in getting different views on this from someone that was knowledgeable on the subject?

To be more clear I was looking to discuss the differences with dealing with both anxiety and depression for educational purposes.
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#17

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed May 30, 2018 7:20 pm

Septimus wrote:To be more clear I was looking to discuss the differences with dealing with both anxiety and depression for educational purposes.


You are correct. Given the original and subsequent posts regarding it being related to the "work place" I don't or didn't understand. It is not clear what you are trying to achieve in the work place.

As for a discussion on the differences in dealing with anxiety vs. depression, that depends on the "who" that is doing the dealing. Is it the person suffering from anxiety/depression, a coworker, a supervisor, HR, or a licensed therapist? The "how" varies dependent upon the role within the organization.

A coworker doesn't differentiate, nor should they. They operate from changes in observed behavior, regardless of underlying cause.
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#18

Postby quietvoice » Wed May 30, 2018 8:37 pm

Septimus wrote:They are general principles, I'm sure they will work for some.

Principles are foundational. They are at the base of the whole of whichever field to which the principles pertain.

That they will work for some, is like saying that gravity only works for those who choose to use it.

You may have done plenty of reading about the human mind and such. And yet, at the base of all of your knowledge about the human mind and such, are the principles. The fact that we experience our thinking cannot be disputed. When it is recognized that that is what is going on, one can see that one doesn't have to take their thinking so seriously, and things gradually begin to clear up.
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#19

Postby Septimus » Thu May 31, 2018 1:50 pm

quietvoice wrote:The fact that we experience our thinking cannot be disputed. When it is recognized that that is what is going on, one can see that one doesn't have to take their thinking so seriously, and things gradually begin to clear up.


I agree we do experience our thinking, but even this leads to complexity about thinking itself.

Have you heard of cognitive biases or distortions, ego biases or the concept of mental projection?
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#20

Postby quietvoice » Thu May 31, 2018 2:57 pm

Septimus wrote:I agree we do experience our thinking, but even this leads to complexity about thinking itself.

Have you heard of cognitive biases or distortions, ego biases or the concept of mental projection?

The content of thought can get very complicated. The Principle of Thought is that we experience our thinking, through Consciousness.

Many want to play around with the content, and think that would be the cure to troubled thinking. I'm saying the heck with the content. The very fact that you are experiencing your thinking, which has content, is what is needing to be understood. Knowing that thoughts come, and thoughts go, and no one particular thought needs to be taken seriously, that is a saving grace. Everything else is just playing around with ideas (thought . . . complexity).
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#21

Postby Septimus » Thu May 31, 2018 3:46 pm

quietvoice wrote:
Septimus wrote:Many want to play around with the content, and think that would be the cure to troubled thinking. I'm saying the heck with the content. The very fact that you are experiencing your thinking, which has content, is what is needing to be understood. Knowing that thoughts come, and thoughts go, and no one particular thought needs to be taken seriously, that is a saving grace. Everything else is just playing around with ideas (thought . . . complexity).


The content of your thoughts is very very important, you don't need to quiet the content if the content is good in the first place.

Ok example mental health issue.

Someone was suffering with severe social anxiety, they can't even walk into a shop without feeling they're being judged negativity, resulting in a panic attack.

How do you help them?
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#22

Postby quietvoice » Thu May 31, 2018 4:33 pm

Septimus wrote:How do you help them?

You get yourself grounded in understanding the Three Principles (of Mind, Thought, Consciousness) and spend some time having one or more conversations with the person, assuming the person is open to having conversation.

Many resources are available online. Here's another link for an explanation of the principles.
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#23

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu May 31, 2018 4:35 pm

Septimus wrote:
Ok example mental health issue.

Someone was suffering with severe social anxiety, they can't even walk into a shop without feeling they're being judged negativity, resulting in a panic attack.

How do you help them?


Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)

Step by step by step, sit outside the shop, approach the door to the shop, go just inside the shop for 30 seconds or a couple of minutes.

After each step you focus on the fact that nothing bad happened, that they are perfectly okay, that their fears were irrational.

This same approach is used for fear of spiders, fear of heights, fear of social interaction, fear of public speaking.
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#24

Postby Septimus » Thu May 31, 2018 5:57 pm

quietvoice wrote:You get yourself grounded in understanding the Three Principles (of Mind, Thought, Consciousness) and spend some time having one or more conversations with the person, assuming the person is open to having conversation.


It all seems very vague when i comes to these 3 principles. It feels like a lack of understanding when someone cannot explain how something properly works. I will look into it more, but for the moment I remain skeptical.

Social anxiety comes from irrational unconscious thinking, egotistical thinking, thinking you're important enough for people to want to judge you in the first place. Too much self reflection and inward thinking also fuels self consciousness.

Possible solutions

Becoming more self aware and increased awareness of others, realizing everyone is self conscious to a degree, objectifying irrational thinking can often disarm negative thinking. Using forced positive thinking like affirmations to override your emotional brain can help.
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#25

Postby Septimus » Thu May 31, 2018 6:03 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)

Step by step by step, sit outside the shop, approach the door to the shop, go just inside the shop for 30 seconds or a couple of minutes.

After each step you focus on the fact that nothing bad happened, that they are perfectly okay, that their fears were irrational.

This same approach is used for fear of spiders, fear of heights, fear of social interaction, fear of public speaking.


Yeah exposure therapy works, it helps to see that your fears were just irrational.

I use to fear going into coffee shops by myself, then I just forced myself to go in, and now I do it several times a week with no problems.
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#26

Postby DrPsychFeels » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:22 pm

quietvoice wrote:
Septimus wrote:How do you help them?

You get yourself grounded in understanding the Three Principles (of Mind, Thought, Consciousness) and spend some time having one or more conversations with the person, assuming the person is open to having conversation.

Many resources are available online. Here's another link for an explanation of the principles.


The company is trying to do the minimal amount of effort to cover their butt in case an employee has an episode.

They don't want employees to help each other or play the therapist. But they also don't want employees to ignore each other.

And I would be wary of playing a therapist to a coworker if you're not trained as one.

Practicing therapy---even on a friendly-coworker level---without proper training is like being a building inspector without engineer training. You'd be okay most of the time and catch the big stuff, but you'd be unable to pick up on vital subtleties while giving everyone a false sense of security.
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#27

Postby quietvoice » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:21 pm

DrPsychFeels wrote:The company is trying to do the minimal amount of effort to cover their butt in case an employee has an episode.

They don't want employees to help each other or play the therapist. But they also don't want employees to ignore each other.

And I would be wary of playing a therapist to a coworker if you're not trained as one.

Practicing therapy---even on a friendly-coworker level---without proper training is like being a building inspector without engineer training. You'd be okay most of the time and catch the big stuff, but you'd be unable to pick up on vital subtleties while giving everyone a false sense of security.

Coming to an understanding of the Three Principles of Mind, Thought, Consciousness, has nothing to do with getting involved in one or more of the 400+ therapeutic practices or strategies available.

The principles come before the content of thought. Anyone on this Earth can come to an understanding of them without the aid of therapy. And, therapists getting an understanding of the principles can enhance their own professional practice through a better understanding of themselves and their clients.

At Work: There are a number of Three Principles practitioners who have done their work in the workplace, and have published books and other media about the same. Shall I do the legwork for you?
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#28

Postby Candid » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:52 pm

You want opinions. Here's mine.

Showing concern for someone who appears unwell and asking whether that person is okay is a normal human response. I would do as much for a stranger on the street.

You haven't said you are then expected to follow up with diagnosis, prescription, and one-to-one therapy. You are merely being asked to show an interest in the wellbeing of your colleagues.

What's peculiar about this is that it needed to be spelled out.
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#29

Postby Septimus » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:26 pm

Candid wrote:You want opinions. Here's mine.

Showing concern for someone who appears unwell and asking whether that person is okay is a normal human response. I would do as much for a stranger on the street.

You haven't said you are then expected to follow up with diagnosis, prescription, and one-to-one therapy. You are merely being asked to show an interest in the wellbeing of your colleagues.

What's peculiar about this is that it needed to be spelled out.


Just because it seems like a normal response doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Some people seem to think all problems can be solved by showing compassion, and it's just not true.

Symptoms of social anxiety, fear of being judged, extreme self consciousness, in some cases one of the worst things you can do is to bring attention to it. Simply asking if somebody is OK is drawing unwanted attention to that person, which can make those symptoms worse.
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