I think I sort of broke my brain a bit

Postby KD5NRH » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:26 am

I was having some luck with self hypnosis (using YouTube and some of Joseph Clough's audio sessions) for smoking cessation and nail biting several months ago, but then I started taking progressively more interest in learning about hypnotherapy. Now I just can't stop analyzing what I'm hearing and let myself get/stay induced. I've tried nearly every free session from YouTube, the Uncommon Knowledge nicotine cessation, HypnoBusters' stop smoking now, (the single session, not the multi-pack, though I'd have bought the multi if the single had noticeable effect) and a couple of others, and I either just end up listening to it, trying not to analyze it, then not consciously trying to do anything, then trying to keep a single visual focus and just let the recording be all I can hear, with no apparent effect whatsoever, or doze off and wake up well after it ends, with a craving starting already.
I know I can still be - at least - shock induced, thanks to a friend who only has experience in stage hypnosis, but he didn't have a script available at the time to even attempt anything useful.
Any thoughts? For a few weeks there, I was down to four cigs a day, (after meals and bedtime - no before-breakfast craving) but after the induction resistance started, I quickly picked back up to pack a day. I'd love to do some of the training out there and learn to help others, but I don't want to be like the hypnotherapist I decided against using several years ago; he was a morbidly obese smoker who advertised primarily stop smoking, lose weight and exercise motivation sessions. (I'm in much better shape than he was, but still...)
Things I've considered but not yet tried yet;
  • Splicing together my own session, with a much longer induction. (I have noticeably gone under using a session with a very long, monotonous induction before it even gets to the serious deepeners. Maybe I just get bored trying to analyze something that repetitive and let it happen.) Would it be unethical *for personal use only* to edit my own longer induction or another session's induction into one of the commercially available recorded sessions? Some of them have good scripts, they just leave me staring at the ceiling or examining the light leaks of my eyelids without any recognizable trance state. I've also tried playlisting this session, followed by different smoking cessation, but it's a mild insomnia session, so apparently I'm already devolved to normal sleep when the next session starts, and gain nothing detectable from it.
  • Recording from scratch, using whatever script I feel is best for the suggestions. This seems like it might help, as I should get pretty bored with trying to analyze something I've already transcribed, then read into the recorder. OTOH, one would think I'd get bored with just listening to the same session several times, and let it happen.
  • Using a local hypnotherapist. Not terribly comforting that all of them are primarily marriage and family counselors with any hypnotherapy mention way down in the fine print, no details of their training, and no mention of tobacco cessation. When I called each one, it was the same "...uh, sure...well, I've done it a couple of times." (A couple of times when your website hasn't even been updated in 3-5 years, so I know you've been advertising hypno for that long? Not even one stop smoking session a year?) And the answer to any question about training focused on their counseling credentials, and maybe a quick mention of 1-2 hypno certifications I've never heard of. (i.e. no HMI, Newton Institute, HTI, ACH, etc., just some random names that I strongly suspect have only a single person listed on the "about our instructors" page...or any other page on their GoDaddy site.)
  • Traveling to another therapist. Maybe practical if I thought I could expect a solid result from a single session, (even just clearing the resistance to let the recordings work) but the time and cost demands of going 90+ miles each way mean that multiple sessions aren't going to be easy to manage.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0


#1

Postby KD5NRH » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:41 am

Forgot the obvious possibility; anyone know of some self-hypno recordings that already have very long inductions and/or inductions specifically tailored for people who tend to over-analyze the recording itself? I'm thinking 20 minutes plus just on induction, as I'm often still analyzing right through the deepeners and into the main script of even full hour sessions. I feel like even 45 minutes of induction and deepening, with ten minutes of targeted suggestions and a five minute wakeup would be more productive than not ever getting solidly into trance.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0

#2

Postby quietvoice » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:47 pm

KD5NRH wrote:Any thoughts?

All the hypnosis in the world won't stop you from smoking until YOU are ready to stop smoking. All hypnosis is self-hypnosis.

Being conscious while smoking with Roy Masters . . .
https://youtu.be/b9CHandYRAA?t=1h20m15s
User avatar
quietvoice
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1925
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm
Likes Received: 195

#3

Postby KD5NRH » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:07 pm

quietvoice wrote:
KD5NRH wrote:Any thoughts?

All the hypnosis in the world won't stop you from smoking until YOU are ready to stop smoking. All hypnosis is self-hypnosis.


Right, but smoking is just the easily tested one; I've tried other goals, but they're not as immediately obvious as "gee, I've been up for an hour and only just started wanting a smoke.

And I'm still trying to figure out how I could shock induce myself. Sort of tricky when I know exactly what's coming and when.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0

#4

Postby quietvoice » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:39 pm

KD5NRH wrote:Right, but smoking is just the easily tested one;

If you're talking about the demonstration in the video, then yes, that is exactly what Roy said—that it is what can be easily demonstrated on stage.

So . . . what's your essential concern, again . . . how can you stop smoking?

KD5NRH wrote:And I'm still trying to figure out how I could shock induce myself. Sort of tricky when I know exactly what's coming and when.

Well, of course. How can you expect to do something that is contradictory to the logic of the situation. How can you tickle yourself . . .
User avatar
quietvoice
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1925
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm
Likes Received: 195

#5

Postby ChristianKl » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:11 pm

Successful hypnosis isn't what you think it is. It's not just about pilling up more suggestions. I know good hypnotist who also gives seminars in which he teaches hypnosis.

According to him one of the most important steps of getting people to stop smoking happens during the appointment making on the telephone. He asks the client whether or not the client has decided to stop smoking. If the say "No" he tells them to come back when they have made the decision. They have to say "Yes" or he won't work with them.

It's said that one of the easiest way a hypnotist reduces the success rate of their smoking cessations is to sell gift vouchers. It brings a lot of people into the door who didn't decide to stop smoking and thus the treatment fails more often.

If this would be really important for you, then you wouldn't take the need to travel 90 miles to a hypnotist as a real obstacle. You would invest the effort because you really care to stop smoking. The problem is that you don't really care to stop smoking and try to do it the low effort way by doing it with a free downloaded mp3s.

Because you haven't made the decision that you do whatever it takes to get it done, your subconscious is putting up resistence to the process. If a hypnotist tells you in trance to try to lift your arm you won't lift your arm. The suggestion to try is a different one than doing. Trying a bunch of different mp3s is not going to help you even if you splice them together in a different way.

I know that isn't easy to hear and many good hypnotist with whom you person in person wouldn't tell it to you like this but would be more indirect.

Stop trying stuff. Decide whether you are serious about this and if so, do what's necessary to stop smoking.
ChristianKl
Full Member
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:18 pm
Likes Received: 8

#6

Postby KD5NRH » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:51 am

quietvoice wrote:
KD5NRH wrote:Right, but smoking is just the easily tested one;

If you're talking about the demonstration in the video, then yes, that is exactly what Roy said—that it is what can be easily demonstrated on stage.


I'm not sure which video you're referring to. I mean that I can tell relatively quickly and reliably whether my nicotine cravings are diminished, compared to, for example, a "healthier diet" session which may take months to show any measurable progress, or a sleep session that might have just bored me to sleep.

So . . . what's your essential concern, again . . . how can you stop smoking?


The essential concern is that I now have significant difficulty in letting myself be induced into trance by the majority of the recordings I've tried. So far, the only one that has appeared to work lately has a relatively long (10min plus) induction before going to simple deepeners, but it's a sleep session, so there's not a "next day" result I can test. (And I can just as easily fall asleep listening to normal audiobooks, so I have my doubts about whether that one is actually successful or just boring.) I'd like to be able to use some of the others for their intended results as well but I'm still analyzing well past their inductions.

KD5NRH wrote:And I'm still trying to figure out how I could shock induce myself. Sort of tricky when I know exactly what's coming and when.

Well, of course. How can you expect to do something that is contradictory to the logic of the situation. How can you tickle yourself . . .


Oddly, I can tickle myself to some extent, and never realized that was unusual until just a couple years ago.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0

#7

Postby KD5NRH » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:11 am

ChristianKl wrote:According to him one of the most important steps of getting people to stop smoking happens during the appointment making on the telephone. He asks the client whether or not the client has decided to stop smoking. If the say "No" he tells them to come back when they have made the decision. They have to say "Yes" or he won't work with them.


OK, then forget the smoking for now; are you also saying that I'm not ready for my hip to stop hurting from a cycling accident a few months ago? (Doc says he can fix it really easy if I'll just go find a fountain of youth to soak it in.) I've tried pain relief sessions as well, and with the exact same result; fully consciously analyzing (against my preference, but it's like trying not to think of an elephant) and receiving no benefit. In that case, I gave it a solid week of daily listening, as recommended in the instructions, and initially placated myself with the assumption that the effects might be cumulative over the week and thus not very noticeable for a couple of days. Ultimately, though, my hip still hurts just as much.

It's said that one of the easiest way a hypnotist reduces the success rate of their smoking cessations is to sell gift vouchers. It brings a lot of people into the door who didn't decide to stop smoking and thus the treatment fails more often.


I picked up the one on sale because it happened to be about two weeks after I'd had some success with a free one. I'm fully aware of the 100% discount available for not buying crap I wasn't planning to buy anyway, and use it all the time.

If this would be really important for you, then you wouldn't take the need to travel 90 miles to a hypnotist as a real obstacle.


Can't drive for the time being, and that's a long walk on a sore hip. $120 each way fee for the shuttle, and I'd have to stay overnight as they only make one round trip per day. So that's $300 per visit before I even get to the therapist's fee. Trust me, I'd go there for the pain if I could afford to do multiple sessions at that rate.

You would invest the effort because you really care to stop smoking. The problem is that you don't really care to stop smoking and try to do it the low effort way by doing it with a free downloaded mp3s.

Because you haven't made the decision that you do whatever it takes to get it done, your subconscious is putting up resistence to the process. If a hypnotist tells you in trance to try to lift your arm you won't lift your arm.


Ah, yes, and I'm so much more fond of choosing daily between throbbing pain or pain meds that make me nauseous and incapable of operating dangerous machinery, among other side effects I'll spare the board the details of that I just won't raise my arm. That must be it; I just love to ache so much. I think maybe I'll nail my genitals to the wall so I can have some more pain.

Stop trying stuff. Decide whether you are serious about this and if so, do what's necessary to stop smoking.


Again; stop fixating on the smoking and tell me where that fountain of youth is so I can do what needs to be done;soaking 20+ years off my hip to let it heal.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0

#8

Postby quietvoice » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:36 am

quietvoice wrote:
KD5NRH wrote:Any thoughts?

All the hypnosis in the world won't stop you from smoking until YOU are ready to stop smoking. All hypnosis is self-hypnosis.

Being conscious while smoking with Roy Masters . . .
https://youtu.be/b9CHandYRAA?t=1h20m15s ( link )

KD5NRH wrote:
quietvoice wrote:If you're talking about the demonstration in the video, . . .

I'm not sure which video you're referring to.

??? It's the only one that was linked in my reply to you.

I've noticed that Mr. Masters, whom I've only within the last couple of weeks have found and been listening, puts a heavy emphasis on holding onto resentments as the cause of many (or all?) of our psychological troubles. Perhaps, looking at that aspect may be of help to you.

KD5NRH wrote:I mean that I can tell relatively quickly and reliably whether my nicotine cravings are diminished, compared to, for example, a "healthier diet" session which may take months to show any measurable progress, or a sleep session that might have just bored me to sleep.

If you changed your daily behaviors toward a "healthier diet," then you got your results.

If you slept . . . you got your results, at least for the moment. Perhaps learning some meditation principles and practices would be a better use of your energies in getting to sleep—apparently you've got too much on your mind. Or you could stay out of bed until you are ready to sleep. Or you can change your diet.

KD5NRH wrote:The essential concern is that I now have significant difficulty in letting myself be induced into trance by the majority of the recordings I've tried.

The recordings are not specific to you in the here and now. A live hypnotist is always watching for signals from you in order to continue with what is appropriate for the current hypnotic session.

KD5NRH wrote:. . . I'm not ready for my hip to stop hurting . . .

Pain is almost always an acid condition in your body. Look up robertmorsend on YouTube. This requires a drastic change in your eating habits. Are you ready?

KD5NRH wrote:. . . tell me where that fountain of youth is . . .

Funny that you should ask. It's in your diet. Life begets life; death begets death. Besides looking up Robert Morse, you can also learn a tremendous amount from John Rose's channel on YouTube. There are many others, as well. Change to a diet of fresh, raw, properly-grown and picked-ripe fruits and berries and melons, and include some botanicals (herbs) in supporting systems in your body. You can get started with a heavy emphasis on juicing fruits and vegetables and greens. Yay!
User avatar
quietvoice
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1925
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm
Likes Received: 195

#9

Postby ChristianKl » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:03 pm

Pain exists to provide a signal of not doing certain things. Switching it off with hypnosis requires you to convince your subconscious that you don't need it for it's signaling value.

That's not as simply as lying down and listening to a bunch of suggestions without changing anything besides the pain.
ChristianKl
Full Member
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:18 pm
Likes Received: 8

#10

Postby KD5NRH » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:39 pm

quietvoice wrote:If you changed your daily behaviors toward a "healthier diet," then you got your results.


If McChickens are a healthier diet choice than Burrito Supremes, then sure, but I doubt the hypnotherapy last month caused McDonalds to be built substantially closer than Taco Casa 35 years ago. I go to McD's because it's about as far as I can walk before my leg hurts...and about half as far as the closest grocery store with anything healthier.

The recordings are not specific to you in the here and now. A live hypnotist is always watching for signals from you in order to continue with what is appropriate for the current hypnotic session.


A good live hypnotist, yes. That's the other problem with going to any of the more distant ones; I have nothing to go by but their own opinions of themselves, their certifications and if I'm lucky, maybe a Yelp review.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0

#11

Postby quietvoice » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 pm

Are you aware that the dead so-called foods that you regularly consume is your downfall? You'll have to make a decision to do whatever it takes to get yourself the fresh and raw fruits (primarily) that your body is deep down craving for the healing of pain. Until then, enjoy your suffering.

If nothing else, you can stop eating altogether for a period of time. You're on the Internet so do some research on that. "Fasting" is the topic you want to research. And you will want to research it before undertaking that project that just may change your life.

Otherwise, I fear that I'll be hearing another excuse in your next reply. If so, I'm done here.
User avatar
quietvoice
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1925
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm
Likes Received: 195

#12

Postby KD5NRH » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:36 am

quietvoice wrote:Otherwise, I fear that I'll be hearing another excuse in your next reply. If so, I'm done here.


No, you're hearing the voice of reality here; plenty of countries are stuck with your fruit and water magic diet, and they're still full of disease and death.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0

#13

Postby quietvoice » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:54 am

KD5NRH wrote:No, you're hearing the voice of reality here; plenty of countries are stuck with your fruit and water magic diet, and they're still full of disease and death.

Name them.

What else is going on in those countries?

Some countries have other issues that are deleterious to health. That doesn't make what I proposed to you a false solution to your problems. You are in a "first world" country, which I know by the fact you are using the Internet and going to a McDonalds regularly. You are in a position to make a positive change in your life just by changing the substances that you put into your mouth. But first, you have to change the information you place into your mind and believe in.

So, your response sounded like another excuse. Good bye and good luck.
User avatar
quietvoice
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1925
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm
Likes Received: 195

#14

Postby KD5NRH » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:21 pm

quietvoice wrote:Some countries have other issues that are deleterious to health. That doesn't make what I proposed to you a false solution to your problems.


Yes, it does. I spent five years with the vast majority of what I ate coming from the 80 acres directly around the house, and still had plenty of health problems.

Maybe rather than the "all teh foodz iz bad!!!!!" excuse, you should take a more realistic approach to life.
KD5NRH
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:20 am
Likes Received: 0


Next

Return to Hypnosis