in nature we are obligated to choose our freedom

Postby Sunyata » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:36 am

Hello,

Not introduced myself yet, sorry. Sharing a realisation



Free, freedom

Nature is the fullest freedom, we all, everyone is free to do whatever he/she wants, it is in everyone's right to do so. You can deny your hunger, you can deny your thurst and keep going through that suffering of pain until you die. You can eat and drink and keep on living.
But it all comes down to a choice to make, the obligation everyone always has to make is a choice, weather you dont do something is a choice, or you do something is a choice, no one can escape this.
Choices come, and choices are the obligation to make. If you decide to do something, whatever it is that you do, the decision is the choice, and this choice was the obligation to make, even if you did not do something you made a choice.
Every conflict in life comes with that choice to make, but it is only when there is a choice one wants to make and cannot make because of reason others then self, then that freedom is lost, he lost touch with nature.
If you want to fly to the moon by yourself, you cannot do so as this is impossible in nature, and all nature is what means freedom. But everything else in reason other then self, means one owns freedom is lost, and his/her wil is not fully(completely) own.
Nature lost you, nature is determined and nature lost you. You do not follow the path nature set out and you will be automatically helping in destroying nature, cause harm to fellow people, and block life.. how ?

a Nature = freedom (this is everyone's freedom)
b All the rights to have = do as you want (this is every persons freedom to do whatever he/she wants)
c obligation = choice to make (choose what you want that you come in conflict with)
d the made choice is your act = what will be your contributed duty

All your choices made come from the same force as what makes you eat, drink, reproduce, heal wounds and avoid danger(fear). hunger, thirst, no reproduce, suffer and daredevils are painfull feelings making each one stay alive, nature prevention mechanism to sustain life even if you have no brain.
You choices will always be good, as every choice of not good made reduce your freedom in nature and/or give more fear. If you come in conflict by seeing a person in need for help in a forest, you choice is simpel.
Do something, or do not do something (choice starts not with help or do bad!!!), if you choose to not do anything, it comes down to the same, you intentionally did not choose to help, it will not be ok.
You can also choose to do something, and instead of helping, you make it even worse, its intentionally not helping. So you got one basic and logic choice obligated to make, do and do good, or do and do bad or dont do anything and it is bad. Your not obligated to do anything, your also not obligated to do nothing, your obligated to make that choice. Imagine your own moral and consiouss that comes with this, and your own personality to see and get to know by others!

But this is the truth as a fact in nature, thus what is the huge problem now today.
Nature is overruled by society, and in society you are certain rights granted and certain rights not granted, and by this there is a small portion society doesnt care about what everyone does or not does with it, no rights are involved and thats it, its untouched in nature.
And in society everyone is obligated for certain things to do and thats it, all besides this is untouched and lies by yourself, these are what you do not have to do, or can do if you like.
rules and law is what makes this mechanism possible, and this is the evil from devil, and what this causes is the possibility for us people to be and live in a world where we are able to watch, see and view people have hurt, die, suffer and go on with our daily activities, it makes it possible to smile while other people are in war dying.

All have certain rights to have, and certain rights they cannot have while no one in whole wide universe has this authority to do so, no one has green eyes and nuclear blood being able to put this on any other human. There aint a man or woman in nature which is more or less then anyone else. But its our society this happens, and by that take everyone's freedom in nature they have, being in captivity of the complete prison which is the subsystem ontop of nature. What no one ever needed to do in nature's freedom, is searching for your own freedom, as in nature you searched for more freedom of ours (go to the moon, fly). Now eveyone searches for own freedom by getting more rights to have, and get less obligations to do, this is all in contrast to others.
We search for more freedom, and while we do that as long as we do not have complete freedom (never will in this fiction society, rules, law is), we find comfort in all we are not obligated to do and things we can do which is our small choice left besides all we are obligated to do. And when we see all misery arround us, people in need, suffer pain war we look at it and think to ourselves wishing to do something about it, wanting to help if possible but we do not feel responsible and think we cannot help and find no blame in self, all say not having a choice to make to do much about it (anything at all) though here is where everyone is wrong;

Everyone has a choice to make, if not you would not be alive. This is nature's mechanism, this is what life gave us all, and this mechanism is perfect, it sustains life. All pain is what makes life go on, you need to feed your hunger and its the hurt why creatures do this, not eat wil just hurt more and more. Nature's mechanism is now in your soul, your consciousness, awareness in a choice to make, choose to do something or dont. If you do not do something, you have caused, and i repeat YOU HAVE CAUSED the misery in the world also. Not doing something, is the same as doing bad. You can only make the choice to do something to help if you wanna be called a good person.
Some say not having the means or capabilities, well how is that possible ? Society, rules, laws, gouverments, rulers, no money.........? This is why nature lost you, this is why you can live alongside misery and not do anything, this is where you lost your freedom. And what do you choose, to find more freedom by get more rights to have, have less obligations, work harder get more money...? This choice creates and worsens more misery, as freedom will never be found inside captivity.

Everyone has only one obligation, and this obligation is to make choice, do or dont do. Why this is an obligation is simpel to see, its natures mechanism to sustain life. By this obligation nature forces each individual to make the right choice, and individual would never choose not to do something to fix/help where there is need unless self has not the ability to do something about it, but this is only when the means in nature
arent available to person self. For all reasons where this is also possible, this self lost all freedom of nature and means lives in captivity. And it is this what keeps us all imprisoned that obstructs what you want to do, what this best and good thing to do, your obediance to it, your participation is a choice you yourself everyone makes, there is no escaping the obligation of choice, do nothing or do something.
And by doing something, work towards the direct meaningfull goal, dont go arround and find a way from inside the prison, destroy whatever blocks the door to do good, dont pay the doorman to open a door.

There is one huge fact, undeniable thruth; Free wil, determinism. Nature is all freedom, everything including you, us everyone is free, do or dont do, or do it as how you want to do it, it all is possible, it is full freedom and nothing else. Every individual has just one obligation, to choose. And the made choice is what is each one's act is. And it is all determined by nature, its course is set, it keep on living untill an universal event vanishes it.
Nature's course is set, nature is life. Did nature lost you, then you are going against life, you participate in its death. Nothing else then nature can be life, not money, not rules, not law, not taxes, not banks, not countries, not a puppetshow starring presidents, kings, rulers, christians, jews, none of this does excist.
Every person holds responsibility, from the only obligation everyone has, to choose.

There is no escape
the misery is real, your impossibility to help aint, dont let the fiction block your/our/everyone's right to do our duty. In real freedom, a working natural system, no one will do wrong, freedom enables fair, captivity doesnt
Sunyata
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am
Likes Received: 0


#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:22 pm

Not a bad overall thought process.

I agree with you regarding the existence of a will to decide. The degree of freedom is not always clear, but we can decide to starve ourselves to death. This is clear evidence of a strong will.

Technology tricks your brain. It is not society. It is the Internet, the television, the ability for you to see pictures of fellow humans suffering in a war or starving in lands far away. Your brain can’t tell the difference. The emotions of seeing others in suffering is the same as if these people are in the forest standing within arms reach. You are faced with a decision, to help or not. But, this is a trick. The emotions are real, but you are not in the same forest.

Imagine you live in a small society, a tribe of 100 people. You do good, you decide to help when they are in need and you can. You know nothing else. Then one day you find a pond. You look into the pond and you see pain and suffering of 10,000 people all over the globe! Emotionally your brain can’t tell the difference. You can’t do anything for these people. Heck, until you looked into the pond you had no idea they existed.

Do you suddenly live a miserable life because you now know the truth of the world? Is your tribe of 100 to blame because you see 10,000 in other tribes struggling or in need of help? You blame your society? Or is it just the fact you discovered a pond that will transmit knowledge about the condition of other tribes around the world?

I agree...DON’T be a slave. Don’t be a captive. But, the master is not your society, your tribe, your group. Don’t blame society. You are free to help those around you. Nothing has changed. Don’t become a slave to the pond. Don’t waste your days looking into the pond and watching other tribes at war or suffering from disease. Don’t be a slave to television networks and the Internet. Go help YOUR tribe, your community, your society...the people that are your friends, your family, your community that exist when you walk out the door and get away from the pond.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9543
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 963

#2

Postby Livetowin » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:51 pm

I think what gets lost in the equation is for every choice, there is a consequence. Some directly, some indirectly and others not fully realized until long down the road. What works for today, may reap something not so desired for tomorrow. All decisions must be given the full scope of impact before we move forward. And once that assessment is made, only then can we proceed with a clear understanding of what we're actually doing.
Livetowin
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:18 pm
Likes Received: 77

#3

Postby Sunyata » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:10 am

Thanks for these much appreciated nice replies Richard and Livetowin,

I got a reply to both, but ill start with the missing word in the equation.
It aint really missing, but this what you now state puts my greatest difficulty in life in the spotlights.
Nothing is as it seems, absolutly nothing. We are living human beings on planet earth, in solarsystem, in milkyway, in clusterblahblah, in universe excistance. What we observe, percieve with eyes, ears, touch, smell, taste is all an illusion. Water, air, iron, sand are all stuff of matter which are formed by molecules and they are formed by atoms and those are formed by electrons/protons/neutrons (and some steps more, but lets keep this the start reference point). Our direct perception is illusion, this is what forms our reality, behind illusion lies actuality (only word perfect enough is the dutch one i know of, werkelijkheid). And in our reality which is percieving illusion, we can also fantasyse think of fiction.
We can take a leaf of paper from a tree, put some colour inkt substances on it, write a number and say this is 100 dollar and give it a economical value, fiction.
The worst ever we could do is linking our fantasy/fiction to movement. Nature, life is what moves, we live, eat, drink, breath, in short we live and living is movement. Everything that moves in the universe is called life.
If you percieve something which you do not see moving, then it is important to look at displacement and time in contrast to yourself. A tree for example you wont see growing before your eyes, but in time it grows bigger and higher. This means that it does not stand still, and a werkelijkheid is behind it to discover of what the illusion really is that displaces.
But if you see a plastic cup to put water in, that doesnt change in time and only displaces by your action. You are seeing something of fiction, and watch out using your own energy for its needed displacement as it is just wasted. The molecules/atoms do never stand still inside.

Finding the illusion and werkelijkheid is my biggest interest, but writing it down and sharing it correctly is tough, the right words, in the right context, not confusing and understandable for everyone is what im trying very hard and doing my best for, it aint easy. I never cared for the way I see it, I think of it, I know it, my logic, my reality and also i never cared for how it is being told to me and i have to assume it, i want to see it all as it really is, and (altough my own words) I found just that in todays chaos.

"I think what gets lost in the equation is for every choice, there is a consequence."

This is where it gets difficult to see the truth. Everything is just consequences, collisions, explosions, creations all through time and space.
Collisions occur all the time, this is life, everything moves. And now that we have the ability to control certain movement, we are responsible for certain collisions, thats why we are obligated to choose. How strong and powerfull this control of our is, we can see in the effect of the collisions, the consequences of the intermediate we chose. Even if our choice was not intermediate, it can have devestating effect, thats why doing nothing is also a choice we were obligated to make, we are responsible.
What road you will take to some place is indeed a choice and they can have various consequences but these are no consequences which came from your responsibility, you were not obligated to choose any road at all, heck you were even not obligated to choose going to another place.
In life we have only one obligation, and thats the obligation to choose. This is what we have in life, its the only responsibility we carry, and we perform this responsiblity by choosing.

Did anyone ever think we have no responsibility in life at all, each and every person carries this responsibility with him. What we are responsible for, what we have this obligation for is nature/excistance.

We are forced, commanded, ordered with no escape to do this obligation and take our responsibility, those who choose to do nothing will be punished and those who choose do something but make another choice of their own to do wrong will be severly punished. The force of obligation comes from nature asking you in its own language pain to eat/drink and live, do nothing and it will shout more to eat/drink, untill you eventually die.
Doing something, but choose wrong to do, you can eat but instead of real food you eat chemical crap/sugar/cholesterol burgers, well nature will make your life a more living hell, struggle with 10 times more energy then needed to live.

Bring this principle fact to the current day, and see yourself, everyone of us here today. A house to buy, the first people had the freedom to build their own house from whatever they could gather on land, the materials were free and land costs nothing. Though they had no electric machinerie and stuff. But working together, they managed to build houses in maybe a year, and done. Houses evolved and suddenly got valued in money, also land got valued in money to pay. A house now today costs so much it takes a loan, the loan has interest and it all has taxes. 30 years to pay, 30 years of your time and energy to earn money which is cut in half by taxes to pay your half earned money for full time and energy of your life spend in payoff loan which is ( i even cannot calculate how much less the house is worth compared to its price). Nature punishes you by having your time and energy wasted for a bunch of nothing, it is the same energy of painfull hunger and the longer your endure this wasted pain, the more time you wasted.

The obligation can never be an obligation when you would not know the consequence of your choice, do nothing and starve to death is a choice, do something and eat is the opposite to choose from. But doing something and eat poison, this is doing what you want, it aint a choice really. You did something, put effort time and energy in doing something which was wasted anyway lol. So if you see people in need which need help, and you do nothing then your not helping which is the reason why they keep suffer, if you do something then do not do whatever you want/think is ok, do something in finding a way to end it for real, and if you didnt manage to find that way, it is the effort which counted, your time and energy were not wasted.

But its pretty sure you will find one, and then comes your free will on the spot. Executing your idea is where you find true freedom, your true free will.

"The degree of freedom is not always clear, but we can decide to starve ourselves to death. This is clear evidence of a strong will."

Richard; You mention this decision we can make is evidence of a strong will, and im pretty sure more people say it like this. Does this not concern you ?
Starving to death is choosing to do nothing, and endure the pain(obligation) till death is the inevitable consequence we knew will happen.
Death is a salvation, life is suffering, what is the reason and motivation to choose years and years of time living if you do not know what it is for, but hence even more why do you give so much of that suffering life you do away to others that hold you captive and consume your time and energy lol.


I give you a point of view on this.
If you chose not to eat, and hunger sets up and the pain of hunger gets bigger and bigger for lets say 15 days, and then you die. You endured 15 days of pain, which you did nothing of, how much energy would that pain be for you to endure...... compared to
lets say, 50 years of your life you give time and energy in working, worries, stress, time and energy taken by others you gave of your life, and do not forget that many of your positive moments (joy, happy) come from negative moments present. Tax who takes time and energy from you is the same as climbing the mount everest, and you had to do it twice to reach the top, or you had a taxguy on your back strapped comming along reaching the top. And this is all seen in time, wasted, useless energy of 50 years, shrink that amount of energy power into 15 days, and endure that feeling.
In the other way arround, spread 15 days of hunger feeling out over 50 years and may that be the only energy feeling you have all those 50 years.
A strong will how, one chooses to do nothing, the other chooses to do something and makes his own choice doing wrong or lets others tell him what to do.

It cannot be someone's will to die, no one likes to suffer or endure pain, everyone's will is set to find freedom, have more freedom. But hell yeah sure todays mind thinking that freedom is to be found in having more rights then all others, and have less obligations then all others have, and seems aquiring money and gain power is just that it takes to get this freedom lol.
Im sure many people come to this life and do not see the purpose of it, they see there is no freedom to obtain, actually its only more fear, so the perform suicide.
Sunyata
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am
Likes Received: 0

#4

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:59 am

Sunyata, I think you are putting too much effort trying to resolve a problem that does not exist.

You clearly recognize you can decide or not.

How do you decide? You decide based on the knowledge you have, not the knowledge you wished you have.

In decision making research there is a concept called bounded rationality. This means you make decisions based on the best information you have at the time. You don’t make decisions through irrational desire for omniscience,

You don’t fear making a decision because it might cause a long series of unknown butterfly effects, where your decision to throw a rock, kills the bird that eats a bug that carries a virus that bites a human that invents a cure for cancer. If you just didn’t throw that rock, cancer would be cured!

I recommend you make things much more simple. If you want to eat a scoop of ice cream, eat a scoop of ice cream. Focus on things you can control in your immediate surroundings. Don’t try to dig into some deep philosophical reason behind if eating a scoop of ice cream will result in the end of humanity.

Of course if you’re just having fun and enjoy philosophical thought experiments knock yourself out. But don’t take it so serious as to negatively impact your life.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9543
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 963

#5

Postby Livetowin » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:37 pm

I think the overall theme here is alluding responsibility for what you do, which I don't agree with. This idea that because life moves on around you and without your participation does not eliminate what you impact in your own space.

As Richard indicated, decisions are often based off the knowledge we possess. Yes, you can eat ice cream if you like. But if you have dangerously high cholesterol, neglected to take your meds to control that, and were scheduled for a bypass in a week, it may be in your best interest to pass on that temptation.

And yes, once you make a decision, that does become YOUR decision. You own it. You may not have been obliged to take it , but you answer for it once you do. Yes there are intended and unintended circumstances that involve everyone, because we live in a world where we can share the same space. So what another person does can impact us whether we participated in that decision or not. But that does not alleviate the responsibility of the person performing that action.

Knowledge is a key player in decisions. And what we choose to examine and not examine plays a big role in what happens to us today and down the road. That is a big part of why many people come to this forum. They have a difficult time accepting their role in their own lives. Many do not realize they're often the author of their own pain, because they get affixed to a pattern of behavior that they transpose responsibility to others. It's always easier to say someone else was making them feel bad than to think they were hurting themselves. So yes, how we choose to see life around us plays an enormous role in the hand we are dealt. The notion that it all just blows in the wind does not carry allot of merit.

Besides if you believed that, you wouldn't be discussing it's value if you felt there was a decision to render on the matter. This conversation alone debunks that theory.
Livetowin
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:18 pm
Likes Received: 77

#6

Postby laureat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am

if you say human has no intelligence is same like telling the bird has no wings

human has the intelligence, the ability to think, the ability to decide,

we dont always use it but we do if we need to, same like the bird doesnt always fly but it does when it needs to
laureat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: Kosovo
Likes Received: 108

#7

Postby Sunyata » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:34 am

Hey Richard,

My apology if it got off track somehow, request to be excused for my difficulty in writing.

Continueing on the problem you mention, though not the problem your pointing to.
This world holds many issues, misery, problems, troubles we are struggling with and facing every day. And it has not found any decent solution yet. These is a basis/foundation for everything, the root at which everything started with and spreaded out into many other consequences that followed.
And for everything that is not right in this whole world, really everything it has it's cause from exactly this I am trying to share here, our only obligation in life.

It is quite simple and easy to see in true reality, and it is very difficult how it works today in our fiction reality. How does it in true nature work, every person gets born and lives, and in nature life a person has all the rights to do whatever he/she wants. and to make this mor clear to see and understand, weather a person kills another person, animal, beats people, steals, jumps off a mountain, digs holes, builds houses, watches porn it does not matter, nature does not withhold anyone of his/her right to do whatever he wants.
But there is one force, one order, one command which is not by anyone to escape, and this is to choose.
Everyone has only one burdon, the obligation to choose.

I am not in any way discussing in topic this choice, I am merely trying to share this view why living in nature has this one obligation only. Life is within nature. Life is from nature. In nature lies life, and life can make use of the full extent of nature in unity, the more unity the more freedom. We could not go to the moon if we did not worked together collectively, we had to put our mind and heads together to figur it our and make it work.
This possibility is a bigger freedom we achieved in nature, being able to fly to the moon where we as organism alone could not go, we cannot fly and breath in space in human form.

How tough it has been to achieve this can be seen and said in many ways, but there is one fact in a specific view, it has been much much harder then needed, we made it more tough for ourselves. It started more out of a competition by USSR vs USA, it costed money, politics and probably much technology has first been develloped from war rather then to have initially invented for going to space.
Sweet, we did it, we achieved some more freedom in nature many times harder then needed, though still it is a step towards freedom. But the concern isnt about the little freedom we achieve, the concern lies in the prison of destruction we achieving at a much faster pace.

In nature you can kill another human being, this is your right to do and you yourself chose this as a non obligation choice you hold to nature. If you kill another human being, you failed to do nature's obligated choice, do something or do nothing. Killing another human being is not doing something, it is the same as doing nothing, though it has been your own choice of doing nothing which will give you less freedom. In nature with making one less person you will have to carry on doing more work by yourself or the amount of people that are left. More people create more possible freedom, every obligated choice you make, is doing nothing and gives you less freedom, and doing something wrong is you who doesnt want more freedom. Only doing something that helps is the way to more freedom, not only for yourself but for everyone as a whole, that is why it is an obligated choice. It is the only obligation we all have in life, for its a choice you have to make in nature's responsibility which has effect on yourself and everyone.
Obligated choices are not the one's which are made by someone's own mind, wishes, longings, cravings. Obligated choices are those who have effect in return also when you chose to do nothing, which is what some people say as, i did not choose for this, it is not me who started these wars, made these people suffer. This is not true, every freedom comes from us together as a whole in the failed obligated choices o make by nature.


If you are somehow religious, the you will find things in its text as, we need to share, be equal, do good and so on blah blah. And we get punished if not, we dont go to heaven and such blah. Well, it doesnt need a religious story to it, it is true in nature, true reality.

Pardom me to use some caps here; THE BIGGEST WORST PROBLEM HERE TODAY IS.
This obligation to nature used in the wrong way is beyond everyone's imaginable vision of evil.
It is sacred, it is holy, it is so true and beautifull but omfg so wrong being not used right. Today, we all have our rights set by law and rules to obey. As in nature we have all the rights available to do, here in society it is split up in 2. Given Rights you do get to whatever, and Given Rights you do not get to whatever.
And the rules in society (what is the only one obligation in nature) are telling you what you must do in order to this/that, and these rules/obligation of society are not as simple as nature, in nature every choice has just the only consequence of less freedom when chosen wrong.

What does this mean/do psychology wise; Rights are set and given, you have the right to buy food, but you have no right to steal food, and Rules made; to get money you must do this/that. Growing your own food is not set as the right you have, or do not have, it is left in peace by society (yes i know, even this is at some places set by a law, but this aint whats discussed now). So weather you grow or dont grow food is here our freedom lies, freedom in the midst of the laws (repeating, freedom in the midst of laws) allowing you and laws disallowing you whatever.)
And you do not have to do it growing food, but you can do it if you like to grow food. Your not obligated to choose doing this for society, and your not obligated to choose doing this for yourself, and when you are not obligated to do anything for anyone and/or yourself it can never have any effect towards freedom in nature, only for yourself or society in society. For example, growing food will expand and become a busisness where you eventually earn much money from, this money is what becomes yours, and society in taxes. And a lot of money is what gets you more freedom of being allowed to have more rights others dont have or get, and do less other must do.
In short, psychology of people is searching freedom, finding freedom in what one can do more or less then all others are allowed, and have less and less obligations to do then all others must do. And many people do not like to compete with eachother, many people need to have a true meaning in life for choices they make, and energy they put into doing something. Unaware, unconsciouss this has a effect. Burnout, loss of energy, lust and wil to live, meaningless, pointless.

Freedom is where the limits lie from our organism being as humans in contrast to nature, if there is not one obligated choice anyone makes then the life of this person lies not in nature, and it is owned by either another person or a system and this is where person spend his life on making decisions for what he (not)wants himself or society (not)wants. And this everytime gives one same result, you failed making the obligated choice by deciding whats best in society to do or not do where you see a fata morgana of freedom.
The word choice should be seen as only done once for saomething ver important, obligated by nature.
Rechoose doesnt excist, redecide does. And deciding is all one does in society, not making choices like in nature, just decisions.

To end my always extreme much writing, i dont know why i cannot keep in shorter, its not what i like or wish to but i see no possibility otherwise from my lack in writing.
To connect the dots in a quick example; 7 billion people, and (estimated) just 7 of or less of all us people in the world make choices (scary maybe its even no one). You, me, all other listen to society what they are allowed and not allowed and do what they are obligated told to do. Thus when we did what we chose in obligation to nature, we would not do something stupid as kill a fellow human being, this is a great risc in ending your own freedom very quickly by the family and friends who come after you, and even if this wasnt the case, it will surely not help you towards any freedom thats the only way forward. So the obligated choices will be of the right things to do, these will make all other people do the same for you, and all your ideas of the full spare time will be fully performed, doing what is best for nature, people and you in the evolution of eath, nature, life, mankind. This is not an utopia, though it will not be possible in one day. We would have been much more evolved then just going to the moon.
Though this imagine is the fiction reality of today, but the truth is surely that making discisions as we do in society, is not in any way seen as a real choice, and also not a free will in which you decide. If you put a mice in a cage, and put that cage into you house, you can set the mouse free from its cage, but it is still in the boundaries of house, it is not free.
Do I care, does anyone care whatever someone does, you should ask yourself if you care when others care about you, thats the same likewise. But we all unaware see freedom between eachother, competing for enjoying more nature and still find it all is restricted by rules and law to compete for again lol.


You know what is one of the inclusions that occur when nature lost you, you lost touch with self and that causes fear, what you see in this world, what you view all that is negative, you think how can people do all those I could not do, this is fear.


Something found on the net; Research shows that 80 percent of our choices are fear-based; in other words, we’re afraid of what will happen if we don’t make a certain choice as opposed to making decisions based on what we really want out of life. Ask yourself, “Is this an escape-based decision or a target-based decision?” Don’t be pushed away from what you don’t want; let yourself be pulled toward what you do want.

Its because it is a decision lol
Sunyata
Sunyata
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am
Likes Received: 0

#8

Postby Sunyata » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:49 am

Laureat, Livetowin, Richard,

Im pretty sure if you take away the wings of all birds in the world they will die by many, this is not the case by intelligence, infact with less intelligence we will have a better chance on survival then the third option of intelligence which wings and everything else does not have. Use it, dont use it, use it wrong.

Psychology is observing issues, gaining a lot of knowledge from those issues and then apply the fixes where the issue is present, and not doing anything on the problem which causes those issues. Take ADHD, Depression, burnout, stress etc etc.

Our intelligence comes with a great responsibility to nature, and the only force this is, is the obligation to choose doing something, or doing nothing. The consequence is easy, freedom or captivity

PS:
The freedom is easy, we are busy fixing nature which we never would have needed to be busy with if we toke our obligation, people with mental, fysical issues, wars, nature issues. Is that not just a waste of time, though the captivity lies even in a much closer space arround every one, we are not living in this freedom which is closing in with less and less freedom, we live in a much tighter prison called society where we have discussions like;
free wil, what is it, do we have it lol
Sunyata
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am
Likes Received: 0

#9

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:13 am

Sunyata wrote:Psychology is observing issues... apply the fixes where the issue is present...


Okay wonderful. YES...I agree with you. There are issues that need to be fixed...

NOW...tell me. Which issues are you currently fixing? Are you currently helping in a war zone? Which one? Are you currently running a soup kitchen? Which issue are you actively participating in?

Please, share the website of your organization so we can partner together and we can fix things together. Provide a way for us to connect and support all of your good works.

OR are you just another keyboard warrior, talking about issues, watching the media, tracking your social media, but not actually doing anything of substance?
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9543
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 963

#10

Postby laureat » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:44 am

I am trying to understand your worries, or what you trying to figure out here but you have gone complicated or maybe inaccurate

you said decisions are based on fear, i believe more accurate would be if you said humans try to survive which is very simple

if you trying to say that " emotions decide for the human " : ... this is partly true... but there is also the power of the intellect
laureat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: Kosovo
Likes Received: 108

#11

Postby Sunyata » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:46 pm

Hi all, thanks again for the effort and time in replies, appreciated.

@ Richard;
My post here, just by posting this, is already helpfull. It does not matter how small it got picked up, it it does not matter if only a few see what is shared here, it has a value to something greater and even more value comes from our discussion about it, all who reply.

Richard; I sense some emotion in your reply, like if I stepped on your foot with something I wrote maybe ? Maybe I am wrong, maybe not, but for sure this is not possible that I would ever intent to do to someone, it is really impossible. I think it is the moment to tell something about myself.
If people get the question 'who are you' . Their answers will be be 'name(john)/proffession(painter)/dutch/rich/poor/king/....and all those sorts answers'

I am none of those, I see myself as a human being like all of us 7+ billion, and the way I am consciouss/aware/know/see/feel myself in the question who am I;
I Am Nothing, There is Nothing I want.

Dear Richard and everyone here, there is really absolutely nothing I have, own, got, nothing which is mine. Not the house, not the clothes, not the money, not people, no wisdom, no knowledge, nothing is mine. Everything is just what I share temporarely, share from the world or from us. Though there is one thing I share from outside this world, and that is the truth I can see and know of, the truth which is the same for us all.

Blinded is not what I am by being nothing unlike everyone else who thinks he/she is something. If someone says he is something, this is always a created vision in relation to something else, and opposite. One cannot say to have a good life, be rich, well educated, a good person when there is nothing to compare this too, people with bad lives, poor, no/less education, bad person.
And do not think there are people in nature who have the intrinsic intention to do bad, cause harm, do less well then yourself. So it is not a good thing to use those for own good or better selfimage.

I really see myself as I Am Nothing, if I would be the only single human being on this planet, I really would be nothing. My opposite is therefore;
We Are Everything, here is everything we need.
I am a part of us all, and everything we need is here to share.

Seriously, I do not care if I am alive or am death, it is just the I do choose to live for the obligation of nature. My Ego is totally gone, and I am not in any competition with anyone, not would I like to be. It is not me who shares my toughts, knowledge, theor, logic. I am fully straight forward and 100% honoust and I am merely speaking of the truth which i Just happen to see, nothing special only I can do, it is what everyone can do when opening the eyes. And my only motivation is to see all this unneeded suffering people do, I make an effort and try to stop it by sharing our truth to be visible for everyone.

Help would be very appreciated, pm me. I am not from any organisation of whatsoever, im doing this by myself.
And you mention some activities that I could be doing for help, but let's be honoust. When you say 'helping in a war zone', which activity in some war would be really helping people, they are all in the bigger vision supporting to make more war! I aggree it is better then nothing to help those in need, but in the long term it is merely a oppurtunity created by someone to do good by helping victums of war/hunger/crime. People helping in warzones where a war waged that got started by the same country they live in and payed taxes to, taxes which partially funded that war on both sides, first the weapons were manufactured in their country and sold to the foreign country and then those weapons were used in the war against their country. Yes i know, who are we, what can we do by ourselves. Though I found a way, and quite a simple but very effective one, with some help it would be possible to try.

So Richard, I am just like you and everyone else stripped of all which I could be diffrent which is not seen in nature, I am purely just like us all, human.
Sunyata
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am
Likes Received: 0

#12

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:55 am

Sunyata wrote:My post here, just by posting this, is already helpfull.


You have not stepped on any toes. I am simply pointing out you complain about every issue, but as you have just stated don’t contribute to fixing any of them.

What you posted is proof of ego. It is not helpful to say what is already obvious. People are hungry. Pointing out that fact is in no way helpful. It does absolutely nothing to get food in their stomach. It is about as helpful as telling the world that tomorrow the sun will rise again.

But, social keyboard warriors watch the news and “participate” which boosts their ego. It gives them a false sense of validation, of contribution. Again, it is simply a display of unjustified ego.

Don’t misunderstand. I hold no ill will towards you or any other keyboard warrior. I only voice my opinion regarding what a useless display of ego it is. I encourage people to consider alternatives to using their keyboard to lament over every conceivable issue in a belief that is participating. Instead, I encourage people to pick a cause and actually doing something about it. Generally all it requires is becoming active in a local community,

Blinded is not what I am by being nothing


I disagree. You are what you wish to believe. A person that believes they are nothing has nothing to offer.

So Richard, I am just like you


Nope. You are not just like me. We are very much different people. I believe we both have value, which means we both are something. That doesn’t make us the same, it just means being different we both have different value to offer.

The baker is something and is valuable. The baker is different than the teacher. They both provide value, but in different ways, hence they are different.

I have an ego and celebrate that ego. You claim not to have an ego, treating ego as something undesirable. That alone makes us different.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9543
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 963

#13

Postby Sunyata » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am

While making a reply to Laureat Ive noticed you already replied Richard, how did you managed to do this so fast, are you checking here all the time ?

Nope. You are not just like me. We are very much different people. I believe we both have value, which means we both are something. That doesn’t make us the same, it just means being different we both have different value to offer.

The baker is something and is valuable. The baker is different than the teacher. They both provide value, but in different ways, hence they are different.

I have an ego and celebrate that ego. You claim not to have an ego, treating ego as something undesirable. That alone makes us different.


I just hope you can handle the truth Richard, I seriously mean this out of concern you will not feel offended, though actually this truth is what you also speak of in your explenation but you use it in correcting something ive said thats incorrect, but it is not.

I have ditched my ego completely just for one purpose, to be not blind for anything at all. And do not think this was easy, time and effort to put in like everyone else does in their own activities.
Look very closely, and try to see what you say yourself. You say; I am not just like you, we are very much diffrent PEOPLE. So what is it that connects us, that relates us, PEOPLE. We both are humans, this is the same. And I am even not talking about appearances like skin colour, female/male, phyiscal diffrences, mental diffrences, but im speaking of the organism we both are the same, the organism which lives in nature requiring the same needs to live. I am the same as you Richard.

The truth here Richard, not me but the truth and it is harsch, please be prepared.
A baker can also become a teacher, and a teacher can also become a baker. They, what they both are, are humans, and those humans aquired something they give to us, they share with fellow human beings. These skills and knowledge we aquired and provide to others do not give ourselves diffrent values or make us be diffrent from eachother. It is the ego humans have which put a diffrent value on another human, of see a diffrence in a human by whatever he/she gives. I do not care if you were the one who dropped the bombs on hiroshima, or if you were in a wheelchair, or if you work for greenpeace, or if you are a doctor helping people, or a terrorist.
People judge/name a serialkiller as someone evil, bad, terrible, worse, devil, not worthy to live, cruel, sick, and much much more.... whatever they say about the person is everything he/she everything is that a human being can be.
A HUMAN BEING IS NOT ALL OF THOSE, ALL OF THOSE IS WHAT A HUMAN BEING CAN BE. Get these right please, is and can be. When I kill 2 people tomorrow, am I a killer(bad person) then ? And when I save 10 lives the day after then, am I a life saver(good person) then ? I am a human being, and a human being is neither of anything in what it gives or takes weather it is good or bad people judge it.
Let me tell you something, when you see a terrorist blow something up and many people get injured, suffer, die it is something really awfull and terrible. But the very point this happens is because there is hurt in this world, this hurt/pain lies much deeper then just the terrorist himself or organisation he is from, not just the victums of the very own terrorist act are hurted and suffer, even the terroris himself and organisation are suffering from some hurt that is the reason why they do something this awfull.
You have no idea how many people are blinded to see this hurt in the world, just by judging the terrorist and its organisation by their ego, and whatever people say aint nothing to argue against, terrorist is wrong, evil, bad. I and everyone aggrees it is wrong, evil, bad, etc... which he has done and what it has caused, but not the human being he/she is, this is what most see wrong. This person has just diffrent believes, views, knowledge and more so is unaware of true reality.
All this misery and wrong on the whole world finds it's origin in exactly what you also do Richard, make us all be diffrent, and also give value in the diffrences which we give or take.
Who judges the bomb droppers of hiroshima, oh hence no they had their orders and were military, they cannot be hold responsible, isnt that how most see it.....

Humans can be all kinds of things, can be all kinds of proffesions, can be whatever there all is to be, do in this world and can have all kinds of values from whatever they can have in this world available to us all, it are all the diffrences that I, You, everyone can be, something that I can become diffrent for what is the same human being we are.
I can become someTHING, but I denied all thus I am nothing, and this made me be part of everything human we are.

Like I said, I do not care who you or anyone can be which we all can be if we want, I value everyone exactly equally by the organism in nature we are human beings.
And by doing this comes one additional realisation, and that is the word believing. If you manage to do this, you will see how believing only can be done, in it's only possibility.
For us human beings it is impossible to believe in anything else, or something else then believing in eachother. Believing is not how it works by doing this in something else then in human beings. And what there is to believe from eachother is that no matter who and what everyone else is that he shows, says, does, acts, behaves, tells which is diffrent from ourselves and we can not understand, feel or see we can only believe there is just exactly the same human being that feels just the same.
If one gives up this believe in eachother, even just for a small portion and put's this in also something else, the connection gets lost. You can believe in whatever you want, even things that do not excist at all, and what it is you can believe from whatever is endless and infinite, but even if it would become visible to you and told you everything how it is aware and consciouss, you will never ever have the exact consciouss and awareness of how it percieves. Believing can only be done in eachother, and if someone wants to know who he/she really is, then you do this by looking at the same organism as you which act in ways that you could not do, you dont understand how someone can do those things, you will only get to know this when you keep believing they are the same.

Blinded by love, blinded by hate, blinded by jealously, blinded by anger, it is all ego which blinds a person. I decided to be nothing, know nothing, think nothing, have nothing, own nothing, claim nothing just to see everything, and it works.

But hence do not let me stop you or anyone from having an ego and also celebrate this ego, it is everyones own freedom to choose which gives peace.

Sunyata
Sunyata
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am
Likes Received: 0

#14

Postby moondaddy1 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:17 pm

"Choice, not chance, determines destiny." Anon
moondaddy1
Junior Member
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:24 pm
Likes Received: 3


Next

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Psychology