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Why do people manipulate others? and how do they do it?


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ptski
New Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: lancashire

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:58 pm

Why do people manipulate others? and how do they do it?    Reply with quote  

I am stuck on a question for a few ideas!

why do people manipulate others? have you ever had it done to yourself?

Is it because they need the attention from others if they are putting others down or is it because that is all they know as they have been brought up on that treatment?

i think there are three types

agrerssive..... Physically intimidating
Snide........Emotionally insulting
ignorant........Your not worth even speaking to

What do you think
  
satanstoystore
MVP
MVP


Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 8046
Location: seattle

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:08 pm

   Reply with quote  

because they lack the proper perspective and skills to manage their relationships in a more healthy way.
Wox
New Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Near Chicago

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:37 pm

   Reply with quote  

But what about the theory of that book, "how to influence people and get what you want" "or get everyone to like you", or whatever, there's quite a few books. Indication of a healthy natural aspect of manipulation? As creatures capable of conscious choice, would it not be a duty for us to manipulate for the assurance of our success?
Vincent1976
Preferred Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 306

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:23 pm

   Reply with quote  

My input:

Manipulation is about control.

As a person you make decisions. But whomever you are talking to makes decisions also.

Obviously one person doesn't control discussions in a way that this person has his/her own perfect discussion.

How I have recently learned how to deal with it:

Whenever it's my turn to speak, I say what's most reasonable, rational, friendly and postive. That way I'm beyond anyone's negative manipulation.

Cheers
JAKJRF
Senior Member


Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 1680
Location: USA

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:15 pm

   Reply with quote  

At some level, manipulation is the essence of every social interaction.
Vincent1976
Preferred Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 306

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:32 pm

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by JAKJRF
At some level, manipulation is the essence of every social interaction.


It's wrong though to negatively manipuatle people. You agree?
satanstoystore
MVP
MVP


Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 8046
Location: seattle

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:54 pm

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well I don't think there's any such thing as manipulation. I don't reach into people's brains and cause chemical reactions to occur, or manually create neurological connections.

I do believe in influence though. Everyone influences. Now that you are reading this...You can choose to do it consciously or you can choose to do it outside of conscious awareness. Your intent or desired outcome by use of influence is still a reflection of ones capabilities.

If a person thinks the world is full of liars and cheaters and the only way to get ahead is for them to be a con-man, then their behavior is a reflection of their model of the world. and it's the same for everyone. How they believe things work and "are" shapes how they behave.

But it isn't influence or "manipulation" that's bad. It's what you do with it.
ptski
New Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: lancashire

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:07 pm

different level    Reply with quote  

ok, maybe i didnt put the post as clear as i could for my aim

i mean manipulation in a bullying manipulation sense.

such as

a manager will purposly withhold information on how to perform the job from their staff just to gain the attention of their staff when they constantly come up to them and say "what are we doing"
from this the manager goes "oh god i always have MY staff hasling me (im soooo important) they never leave me alone. this is a technique used to gain attention and percieved impotance in society

any ideas?


Last edited by ptski on Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
megan
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 3510

Post Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:09 pm

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there's many reasons really why people are manipulative and I think everyone without exception uses some degree of manipulation sometimes.

People often manipulate to get attention (love). ...even bullies! Its always to gain something for themselves, whether they are bullying or just plain needy, its to get the other person to do something for them, to feel better about themselves etc
Smurfetta
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 312
Location: London

Post Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:39 am

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I think people manipulate in the sense that you are describing for their own desperate grab at self gratifying their egos/the person they see themselves as.

I had a friendship that was very manipulative.My friend did everything in her power to make me feel humble.Luckily my innate sense of worth shone through and made me see the light after 13 years of constant critizism/put downs/dominance subtly aimed at not just me but-towards the end-my kids too Shocked

I think my ex friend did it through low self esteem learned through her childhood mainly.She had a rocky(though not half as `real` as say mine Rolling Eyes )start where her mum basically lived her own life and left her child to find the long,sometimes troubled path to adulthood by herself.
I think she learned that to gain feel good feelings she had to feed off others.
The stage she is at at the moment I believe to be one that would be very difficult to overcome for her as it has become integrated into her perception of what makes people tick and the world go round.

Hope this kind of insight is what you mean and Im not going off at a tangent.
Sip
Full Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 204

Post Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:13 am

   Reply with quote  

See from early childhood I have perceived everything differently and could never really grasp natural instinct that with my brother constantly tricking me and lying to me (and me believing him) has taught me a lot about peopleís intentions, motivations, actions and reactions. I try not to use it but I get sick and tired of people taking me for granted. Sadly now Iím trapped on two fronts one being what Iíve always been and having the big advantages and disadvantages of thinking outside of the box....or be normal and accepted by others.

But I still have morals on the use of manipulation...so there are some lines I won't cross.
Smurfetta
Preferred Member


Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 312
Location: London

Post Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:30 am

   Reply with quote  

Sip - You have learned to mistrust and to be sceptical and with good foundation but also you have boundaries you will not cross-good,my faith in human nature is steadfastedly safe......for now.....

My middle child is a boy who loves to `wind up` shall we say Rolling Eyes I am hoping youngest will be stronger and smarter(hopefully not learn manipulative measures)as not to succumb to his sadistic recreational idiotic pastimes lol
chaipau
Junior Member


Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Los Angeles

Post Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:21 am

   Reply with quote  

Manipulation is normal human behavior. As an animal, we behave as all other animals do and engage in manipulation.

For instance, the cobra will bob it's head about slowly to mesmerize the mouse, and then, when the mouse is sort of in a trance, strike out at it.

The snake charmer plays a flute and also with his head movements controls or manipulates the cobra to impress and entertain tourists, who then throw him a few rupees.

The snake charmer then takes those rupees and buys some liquor. The liquor seller understands that the alcohol exerts a kind of control over the customer, causing them to come back time and time again for more.

The landlord holds the threat of eviction over the alcohol seller, so that the seller gets up every morning, sweeps his stoop, and trades rupees for liquor.

The bank that holds the note on the landlord's property keeps him on top of collecting his rent.

And so on.

All human societies form pyramidal power structures. Even in a Marxist country like Cuba, there is still a pyramid, however it's middle section is very small compared to other kinds of societies.

Insect colonies also form pyramidal power structures.

In order for humans to form pyramid power structures, each person has to be both a manipulator and a maniplulee.

The human power pyramid is actually made up of many smaller pyramids. Sometimes the various small pyramids do not have personal interconnections but are connected by the institutions. For instance, your police department is a pyramid that, unless you're a criminal, does not have a direct personal connection to you, but you are taxed to support it.

If you find yourself at the bottom of a local pyramid then you may be someone who is more a manipulee than a manipulator. There is a tendency for such persons to speak of those who manipulate them in pejorative terms, and to squawk about their victimization, and wear a halo over their heads. Yet every manipulee only wants more power, that is, to be more of a manipulator. Assigning a pejorative to your manipulators is nothing more than hypocrisy.

In many cases, the manipulee has entered into a transaction with the manipultor, such as, "if you will give me large orgasms, I will clean the home and do your errands, and give you large orgasms also". The invitation to have sex is always a manipulation of some kind, and one party always ends up with more in the deal than the other. And it's actually kind of humorous that the party getting less is often unable to see this fact because THEIR orgasms program them to over value the other party - they allow themselves to be manipulated with their own neurochemistry!!!

If two parties are more or less equal in power, they may engage in commerce, but they will never be friends or lovers, as neither will submit to the other. They can stand next to each other in the pyramid, but they can't form the close relationship of a manipulator/manipulee.

If a person does not want something from another person, he/she can't be manipulated. The employee who is manipulated by the boss has only themselves to blame for wanting a job.

But of course, most of us have to pursue a job and sex and that'w why life is hell.
Sip
Full Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 204

Post Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:15 am

   Reply with quote  

Smurfetta thanks for the response, sadly people around me never tell me things like that and to see it in words makes me rest a bit easy.

Also Chaipau, very nice post and great insight and looking at my own life it makes a lot of sense yet I only feel comfortable around other manipulators.
CrazyGal
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 73
Location: Australia

Post Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:12 pm

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i've been been manipulated for along time now. I believe it is just a total control power grab on their behalf.. The guy that has been severely manipulating me said this to me the other day : " I don't just manipulate/play mind games with you, I do it with everyone"..

So I dunno.. is that statement meant to make me feel like I should be lucky that it is not just only me he does it to? lol .. hmm

I agree with some of the posts about how all of us manipulate people to some degree, but as for manipulation causing HARM.., I believe it takes only sick minded people to not only a) do it in the first place, and b) continue manipulating with enjoyment of the harm it cause the manipulatee...[/b]
  

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