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The 3 seconds trance of sleep Derren Brown handshake


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Author Thread
The_Ping
Preferred Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 421
Location: Israel

Post Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:46 pm

The 3 seconds trance of sleep Derren Brown handshake    Reply with quote  

Hi,
I know how to do and I did several times the handshake induction and I succeeded with pattern interruption, but only with pattern interruption.
when Derren does this, most of the times, he is cause to his subject to sleep in three seconds. I can to say to my subject to relax and close his/her eyes, but you know that it's not the same way like Derren does.
so my question is what can I do in order to do the handshake induction like Derren or even like this guy: h tt p :/ / ww w . you tub e . co m/ wat ch ?v= B cF5 RE ftJ Js ?
more techniques? more experience? more pacing and leading? what to change? I don't want only pattern interruption. pattern interruption it's very nice, but I want sleep trance like Derren with handshake induction, sleep in 3 seconds. so what do you say...? and do you ever succeeded to do trance of sleep in 3 seconds like Derren with the handshake induction?
  
Anthony Jacquin
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 2935

Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:20 am

   Reply with quote  

Derren tends to follow the pattern interrupt with words along the lins of

'it's not really hypnosis just sinking and drifting, sinking and drifting'.

This scoots round any doubts in the mind of his volunteer because it kicks the legs away from any challenge found in the word 'sleep'.

Please explan what you mean by 'sleep' trance?

If you want 'sleep' you need to insist upon it. It souns like you are doing a pattern interrupt and not doing anything after that. Saying 'boo' is a pattern interrupt. It just buys you a moment. It is what you do next that counts.

If you succeed in the pattern interrupt what do you do next to turn that into a hypnotic process?

Ant
reggie
Junior Member


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 78

Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:33 am

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by Anthony Jacquin
Derren tends to follow the pattern interrupt with words along the lins of

'it's not really hypnosis just sinking and drifting, sinking and drifting'.

This scoots round any doubts in the mind of his volunteer because it kicks the legs away from any challenge found in the word 'sleep'.

Please explan what you mean by 'sleep' trance?

If you want 'sleep' you need to insist upon it. It souns like you are doing a pattern interrupt and not doing anything after that. Saying 'boo' is a pattern interrupt. It just buys you a moment. It is what you do next that counts.

If you succeed in the pattern interrupt what do you do next to turn that into a hypnotic process?

Ant
woow I am going to do that and can see that working thanks!
The_Ping
Preferred Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 421
Location: Israel

Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:04 pm

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by Anthony Jacquin
Derren tends to follow the pattern interrupt with words along the lins of

'it's not really hypnosis just sinking and drifting, sinking and drifting'.

This scoots round any doubts in the mind of his volunteer because it kicks the legs away from any challenge found in the word 'sleep'.

Please explan what you mean by 'sleep' trance?

If you want 'sleep' you need to insist upon it. It souns like you are doing a pattern interrupt and not doing anything after that. Saying 'boo' is a pattern interrupt. It just buys you a moment. It is what you do next that counts.

If you succeed in the pattern interrupt what do you do next to turn that into a hypnotic process?

Ant


Hi Ant, thanks a lot!!! you are the master in hypnosis! Very Happy
i mean that 'sleep' trance it's a hypnotic sleep, exactly like that you do an instant induction and say 'SLEEP!' and the subject go into a hypnotic sleep and he/she can't to open his/her eyes or wake up, unless disturb to them or give them suggestion to wake up. this is what I mean - a hypnotic sleep with handshake, like Derren does...

I do pattern interruption and after this I try to produce from him the maximum. I tell to the subject to let his/her eyes close, sometimes also with analogue marking, and go deeper and deeper to this state. (wow, in Hebrew it's hear so different...)
and then I give them suggestion that their can't move their hand... it's never worked. I even tried to combine some NLP techniques, like anchoring, analogue marking and another "tricks" - "did you where in trance BEFORE?" or to give them 2 options...

I think that the only question that I need to ask, it's why your diploma course is so expensive... Sad

thanks again! Wink
Anthony Jacquin
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 2935

Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:01 am

   Reply with quote  

HI Ping.

I love Derrens performances. However I really do not think he is the best source you could use to learn hypnosis. He may inspire you to learn it but most of the time when he uses an instant induction, there is no way to know if his subject has achieved hypnosis because more often than not the hypnosis has no relation to the effect. and he does not test his work He doesn't ask for much more than them to stand there with their eyes shut while belting out some instructions that are really there for the audience.

When he does use hypnosis more often than not you do not see the induction.

I have two courses. The two day one is affordable and reasonably priced. The diploma I accept is a more significant investment. But you are trained in a group of ten people or less, there are two trainers and all books/cd's/dvds are included. What price do you think would be reasonable?

By the way with regard to handshake induction to not being able to move arm I think you need to add a few steps.

Do the handshake, get their eyes closed and then, rather than just instucting them they cannot move their arm, say 'feel that arm getting stiffer, feel the scles getting tighter, that elbow joint locking, the bicep stiffer, up into the shoulder...' This way at least you are suggesting something that will help in making the arm immobile. Of course some people will be able immovable without all of this and only need the command 'you cannot move your arm' but many need a bit more work.

I will release some clips soon that will make this clearer.

All the best

Ant
Michael Lank
Super Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 5816
Location: Lewes, UK

Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:40 am

   Reply with quote  

Unless the rules have changed, you are definitely not seeing a hypnotic induction on TV.

TV rules used to forbid showing the actual induction, which is why Paul McKenna's shows never showed an induction.
Anthony Jacquin
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 2935

Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:04 am

   Reply with quote  

I think you are seeing an induction but because 'it's not really hypnosis just sinking and drifting' he gets away with it.

Ant
kevsheldrake
MVP
MVP


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 2570
Location: Cheltenham, UK

Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:00 pm

   Reply with quote  

Yes, while what we think we see may only be a sliver of what actually transpired, I do think he'd be inclined to take a flier, using the "it's not real" defence with the consolation of notoriety if it all goes horribly wrong. Smile Not sure he'd be into soap-on-a-rope territory either, probably just a fine and a major slap for Ch.4. BTW, I'm not a lawyer. Wink

Kev
The_Ping
Preferred Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 421
Location: Israel

Post Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:44 pm

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by Anthony Jacquin
HI Ping.

I love Derrens performances. However I really do not think he is the best source you could use to learn hypnosis. He may inspire you to learn it but most of the time when he uses an instant induction, there is no way to know if his subject has achieved hypnosis because more often than not the hypnosis has no relation to the effect. and he does not test his work He doesn't ask for much more than them to stand there with their eyes shut while belting out some instructions that are really there for the audience.

When he does use hypnosis more often than not you do not see the induction.

I have two courses. The two day one is affordable and reasonably priced. The diploma I accept is a more significant investment. But you are trained in a group of ten people or less, there are two trainers and all books/cd's/dvds are included. What price do you think would be reasonable?

By the way with regard to handshake induction to not being able to move arm I think you need to add a few steps.

Do the handshake, get their eyes closed and then, rather than just instucting them they cannot move their arm, say 'feel that arm getting stiffer, feel the scles getting tighter, that elbow joint locking, the bicep stiffer, up into the shoulder...' This way at least you are suggesting something that will help in making the arm immobile. Of course some people will be able immovable without all of this and only need the command 'you cannot move your arm' but many need a bit more work.

I will release some clips soon that will make this clearer.

All the best

Ant


Hi Ant, thanks a lot!!! Very Happy

with regard to your courses, I'm sure that you have fantastic courses. I wish I had the money for to be registered to your course (2500 pounds+flight+hotel, I want only diploma course...)
in California, hypnosis courses with diploma cost is 1700-1900$, I think that I have the money for that, in spite of this much farther for me.
but 2500 pounds it's reasonable cost in England because England it's the most expensive country in the world.

with regard to the handstick, wow it's absolutely awesome! I will try it out. CLIPS WILL BE GREAT! please tell me when you release this. thank you so much! Cool
kevpar
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Location: England

Post Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:05 am

   Reply with quote  

Just a quick point about Derren Brown using 'It's not really Hypnosis it's just sinking and drifting'

Surely this is presupposition to the point that its an acknowledgment of the fact that the subject is thinking that it IS hypnosis? Does that make sense?

Like, 'It's not REALLY a pink elephant you know' carries the meaning, 'You think that is a pink elephant don't you.

Thoughts?
Anthony Jacquin
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 2935

Post Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:16 am

   Reply with quote  

I get your point. The truth is it does not matter if they think it is hypnosis or not. As long as they stand on the spot with eyes shut because 9 times out of 10 the hypnosis is not required to pull of the trick just to create an effect.

That said if we were on the phone and you asked is it a beautiful day and I replied with 'It's not really a beautiful day it's just quite warm but cloudy' would you suppose well it is a beautiful day?

I'll say to someone who is about to be hypnotised or even someone who is already hypnotised 'Now you can understand what I mean when I say sleep. It's not really sleep like you have at night it is just focussing your attention on my voice and your thoughts'.

Extracting a language pattern from that by reverse engineering the sentance does not necessarily mean the language pattern is useful or meaningful. All I mean to communicate it it is fine that you can hear me, it is fine that you are wondering why you are not asleep. It is an opportunity to turn their thoughts to the realm of sleep and say sleep a few times.

Ant
kevpar
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Location: England

Post Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:40 pm

   Reply with quote  

Ahh ok so it's more a gentle command nudge in the direction of 'just sink and drift' something quite easy to grasp in the moment rather than the less easy to interpret set of commands which will lead someone to feel as though they have been properly hypnotised in perhaps a lengthier induction?

Kev
The_Ping
Preferred Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 421
Location: Israel

Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:43 am

   Reply with quote  

what do you think about this book??
does somebody here has this book??
http://www.marchogan.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=10
http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/page.asp?page=40

it is very expensive... so please tell me, I need to know if somebody here has the book, even in PDF!

I have the most rare book of Milton Erickson in PDF! it call "Milton H Erickson - The Practical Application Of Medical And Dental Hypnosis."
there you go: http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Application-Medical-Dental-Hypnosis/dp/B000I6K5I8/ref=sr_1_4/103-3369111-5340617?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185004113&sr=1-4
and I am interested to exchange!
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and if you are a good person, please help me for free and tell what do you think about this book? Smile
kevsheldrake
MVP
MVP


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 2570
Location: Cheltenham, UK

Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:32 am

   Reply with quote  

I know Marc and I'm sure his book is value for money.

However, get some in-person training, otherwise you may find yourself with yet another book and no more skills.

For my part, I read for about 18 months and couldn't hypnotise anyone; I learned how to in the first hour of a weekend course.

Kev
The_Ping
Preferred Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 421
Location: Israel

Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:45 pm

   Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by kevsheldrake
I know Marc and I'm sure his book is value for money.

However, get some in-person training, otherwise you may find yourself with yet another book and no more skills.

For my part, I read for about 18 months and couldn't hypnotise anyone; I learned how to in the first hour of a weekend course.

Kev


I know that you right and I agree with you. In what course you was?
  

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