Racism against one's own race

Postby Angel Sigh » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:58 pm

greetings everyone! I hope I am posting the proper subject in the correct section. if not, then I apologies. pleas re-direct it to a better suited section.

if I may begin with my inquiry that got me thinking recently;

I thought this might be a psychological issue. I was thinking of the possibility of someone being racist against his own race- even though he/she lived (and are still living) all their lives in that society/social group and is genuinely a part of that group regardless of what angle you look at it from. could it happen? if so, what could be some of the reasoning for such a position. it would presumably go against the natural feel abd desire of 'belonging' to your own group- especially being nutured directly by its culture since birth.

thank you for your time.
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#1

Postby megan » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:55 am

Hi Angel ... this is a good place to post I think. I'm not sure what you meanabout 'racist against your own race' maybe you could ellaborate or be precise?

I sometimes think the word racism needs categorising a bit more as it seems a multitude of sins are lumped under it. Regarding your own race however, I'm white British. I do think that English people are, compared to other races, reserved, complacent and disinclined to passion and being outspoken (theres of course exceptions but generally) Now yes, you could say I was stereotyping my own race and some would go as far as to say its racist. I just think its a reasonable observation drawn from experience. Sometimes observations can seem derrogatory such as this, but its not, at least not intended as such. Most Australians and Americans I have met have been quite loud, even brash...but not all and most are very nice too!! (I'd better shut up!!) There are cultural differences that we observe, even if these are observed in your own race, but the word 'racism' seems to be banded about indescriminately, and inappropriately I think, sometimes

Maybe you could define what you are asking a bit more?
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#2

Postby mastermind2007 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:14 am

Do you actually know what racism is?
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#3

Postby gezunda » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:52 am

Wikipedia says: "Racism has many definitions, the most common and widely accepted is that members of one "race" are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other "races."".

So I guess you can't be racist against your own race by that definition. You can feel superior to them, but would that be classified as "racism"?
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#4

Postby PoppyGoodWill » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:18 pm

I think racism against your own people is possible.

Think South Asians who adopted British habits, ways of speaking and manners and then looked down on other Indians during the time that the Brits ruled that country.

The academics and activists call it "internalized racism", in other words, you've come to believe racist assertions about your own people. It's often accompanied by a real effort to distance yourself from your heritage.
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#5

Postby gezunda » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:33 pm

Great example, Poppy. I hadn't thought of that. I suspect there would be other examples throughout history.
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#6

Postby good spirit » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:05 pm

I believe that feeling superior or inferior to anyone else is incorrect thinking.


At our inner core we are all exactly the same. :D

*And I can back that up scientifically if anyone wants me to.
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#7

Postby Angel Sigh » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:30 pm

thanks for the replies everyone. :) this topic is much concern to me and I can't seem to find a good place to learn more about it.

there doesn't seem to be a multiple quotation function on this forums system, so I'll do it manually

Maybe you could define what you are asking a bit more?

seeing a very specific race of people to be genuienly inferior to every other human population. for example, seeing a certain type of people to be inherently dumb, extrmely bad, not worth the air they breath, etc. and there is no hope for them to evolve to what would begin to describe them as even being 'human'.
I am trying to give an example here. I would presume that to be called 'racism', is it not?

but the thing is, such negative 'branding' or pre-made thoughts of specific groups is usually done to or applied on other groups/races than your own. but in my case, a member is ridiculing his own race. now that may not be hard to see if that individual has been exposed to other living environments- say his family moved to a foreign country and he grew up there. in that case, he would concider himself a member of his new group and thus having such remarks on his own people can be explained.
but in the case I am laying the individual is and has been living in his own environment. he doesn't consider himself not being a part of this group. yet, he still have these remarks and genuine hatred to his own kind.

I hate saying 'kind' in such a sense, but it is a description of different human races as how some use it. I am trying to be as descriptive and clear as possible.

Do you actually know what racism is?

maybe what I am asking isn't racism. there could be another terminology or a known condition for it.


Wikipedia says: "Racism has many definitions, the most common and widely accepted is that members of one "race" are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other "races."".

So I guess you can't be racist against your own race by that definition. You can feel superior to them, but would that be classified as "racism"?

that is exactly my point. the thing I am asking here is could it be possible to see a race as 'intrinsically inferior' when you yourself admittedly belong to that group in every way?

I think racism against your own people is possible.

Think South Asians who adopted British habits, ways of speaking and manners and then looked down on other Indians during the time that the Brits ruled that country.

The academics and activists call it "internalized racism", in other words, you've come to believe racist assertions about your own people. It's often accompanied by a real effort to distance yourself from your heritage.


that is a good example. but as I said in my first point, the individual wasn't exposed to other living/group/race environment. he doesn't see himself ans not belonging to the same race he hates. that is what I find strange; a person living all his life in such a culture growing up to not be able to stand it one bit. in fact, if asked where does he fell he belongs, he would respond by saying "nowhere". asking to elaborate he would say this is his only culture, his only environment that he ever knew. he cannot 'be' anywhere else since he feels he would never belong or fit anywhere else. and since he refuses his own people, he feels he doesn't and cannot belong anywhere.

fascinating, really. he is the only example I know of with such feelings. woudl that be considered as giving up, loss of purpose, what? and are such thoughts really evoked by racism or are they merely categorized as such?


I believe that feeling superior or inferior to anyone else is incorrect thinking.


At our inner core we are all exactly the same. Very Happy

*And I can back that up scientifically if anyone wants me to.

true. but that's beside the point. :)




PS. admins should really consider switching to the vbulletin forum system. this php one is outdated and very restrictive.
cheers. :)
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#8

Postby mastermind2007 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:53 pm

Racism against your own race would be like hating yourself.
This is nonsense, really.
If you hated people of your own race for what they are, I think it'd be that you wouldn't see yourself as those, but rather think you're superior to them.
It's maybe like saying "Humankind is miserable." of humans, but seeing oneself as being superior to the usual human.
But why the question?
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#9

Postby Angel Sigh » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:18 pm

Racism against your own race would be like hating yourself.
This is nonsense, really.

but a lot of people hate themselves. in some cases, enough to commit suicide or self inflect injury/pain.

mastermind2007 wrote:
If you hated people of your own race for what they are, I think it'd be that you wouldn't see yourself as those, but rather think you're superior to them.
It's maybe like saying "Humankind is miserable." of humans, but seeing oneself as being superior to the usual human.
But why the question?

and therein lies my fascination; it is like you say, but you don't consider yourself better than them nor apart from them.

it's like you are in a sinking boat with a group of people. you are indeed with and one of them (like I said before; even by own admission). normally, this wouldn't be an issue as it is common place to think of your own or your own group as being 'better' than others. but not in this case.
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#10

Postby gezunda » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:54 pm

A bit more context puts a different slant on the question, Angel Sigh.

If this person grew up in a place where the people of his own race were nasty, violent etc and that's all he saw, as a child, he could have made the decision that all people of this race are like this and therefore inferior, and bad, and that he was going to be different.

I've seen it happen where women hate women, and men hate men, so I would presume it could happen where an individual hates their own race.

Interesting question. Can you give us a bit more background information.
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#11

Postby Angel Sigh » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:06 am

good thing you mentioned it; the guy is a man and he does hate men. I don't know if that is related or a different topic all together. I think it is different since the reason he gives is that 'all men are pigs. no exceptions'.

can you please ask what examples or info you need exactly so I wouldn't just keep going and going or get stuck in repetition? thanks.

and that he was going to be different.

he doesn't want to relate to his own people in any way that he isn't forced to. it is not that he want to be different for the sake of it; he wants to be different from 'them'. he refuses to have a social life since it would mean to spend time with the people he hates (which is everyone in his ethnicity). he doesn't watch media produced by these people, read anything they write, etc. he doesn't even want to speak their language. he uses a forieng language and only uses his mother tongue in places others don't understand the foreign language he uses like work or when someone asks for directions on the street. he doesn't want to wear the same clothes (again, unless he has to like work).
marriage is out of the question since he doesn't want to be affiliated with his race in any way let alone get married. when asked why not them get married from another race he says he could never allow his children or wife to live in such a place or culture. he rather age alone and die alone. he doesn't have a cell phone for that reason. he 'had' to get a land-line phone for internet access, otherwise, he wouldn't get even that. he doesn't answer it when it rings most of the time anyways.

for what its worth, the person isn't violent at all. not even in the slightest. I would imagine such a person would at least be grumpy and rude, but no. it turned out that negative behavior like that is a prominent part of his race (as he put it) and thus being like that would make him be one of them. so he doesn't do it just to distance himself from them- even if only psychologically in his own mind.
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#12

Postby gezunda » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:21 am

Hi Angel Sigh. The beliefs will be rooted in his childhood somewhere. Either learned from other people in his life or a decision to do something different.

It sounds like he is using this as a method of distancing himself from everyone, so that may be the psychological purpose of his beliefs.
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#13

Postby Angel Sigh » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:17 pm

so what you are saying is that he may be unconciously using such beliefs as an excuse to keep his distance?
interesting. if so, why would he want to be distant and use such methods to get there? I would've thought it more simpler if he went with the much more common "I hate the world" mentality teenagers seem to be using growing up.

this person does not regard any other people besides his own to be like that. not a single other ethnicity. when asked, he would refer to everyone else to be normal, typical human beings. only with his own kind does he have a problem.
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#14

Postby gezunda » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:51 pm

I guess I suggested the psychological purpose of this man's behaviour was to keep people at a distance becoz he won't even contemplate being with someone from another race. Some people are afraid of closeness, intimacy with others and so use beliefs such as this to avoid closeness. Why he is using this belief, I don't know.

He is getting his own personal (negative) payoff from this behaviour.

Interesting topic Angel Sigh.
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