Can a narcissist ever change??

Psychology-related discussions or questions that don't fit neatly into any other forum.

Postby heatherbell » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:00 am

That's it really.....am fed up banging my head against a brick wall with this person. Three years of psychotherapy don't seem to have made a huge amount of difference to them
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Postby tokeless » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:50 am

I think until narcissist's take a good look at themselves they will never change!

But, seriously. Psychotherapy isn't like a course of antibiotics that will treat the sufferer if they just take the pills. Perhaps this person doesn't see any incentive to change. What do they get out of the relationship that they don't get now?
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Postby theforsaken » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:50 am

have you considered that maybe this person is just an a**hole?
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Postby tokeless » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:52 am

That was meant to ask what would they get out of the relationship (if they change) that they don't get now?
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Postby alrietto » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:52 pm

heatherbell wrote:That's it really.....am fed up banging my head against a brick wall with this person. Three years of psychotherapy don't seem to have made a huge amount of difference to them


www dot questia dot com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=F0F1D5FFE9C5DC2FDDB859C214DED095.inst2_2b?docId=5002562046

Narcissistic personality disorder is a common and often disabling syndrome. Although persons with narcissistic personality disorder are often difficult to treat, certain psychotherapeutic strategies have been identified which can lead to effective interventions with these clients. This article presents strategies for assessing and treating narcissistic personality disorder during psychotherapy. Both theoretical and research literature is summarized in order to highlight useful approaches to working with clients manifesting narcissistic characteristics.

...

NPD has been regarded as one of the most difficult pathologies to successfully treat (Lawrence, 1987). Beck and Freeman (1990) point our that when individuals with NPD actually engage in psychotherapy, it is primarily due to the symptoms of another disorder, most commonly depression. The lack of actively pursuing treatment for this condition is symptomatic of the disorder itself; individuals esteem themselves too highly to consciously consider the need for treatment. Some clients will project their grandiosity onto the therapist and develop a love-hate relationship.

They are likely to approach therapy with a sense of entitlement and may seduce the therapist into supporting their sense of grandiosity.

findarticles dot com/p/articles/mi_hb013/is_4_5/ai_n28974030/?tag=content;col1
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Postby Ruthless Mask » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:24 pm

Narcissitic behaviour is just out of control self-importance, that inflates self-esteem( more nonsense). It is a result of a belief in the thought that there is a separate self, controlling the human organism. This is completely false, see the falseness, the illusion disolves and narcissism cannot be.
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Postby Ruthless Mask » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:26 pm

theforsaken wrote:have you considered that maybe this person is just an a**hole?


Oh very intelligent and helpful!!!
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Postby waiawy » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:23 am

I do think gene plays the crucial role in narcissism , so it's nearly uncurable.
It's not like software runing on a computer which you can recode , it's rather the
hardware which is unchangeable.
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Postby theforsaken » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:13 am

Ruthless Mask wrote:
theforsaken wrote:have you considered that maybe this person is just an a**hole?


Oh very intelligent and helpful!!!
its more intelegent and helpful that telling people they dont exist as the solution to everything...
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Postby alrietto » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:23 pm

I have gotten some advices regarding how to deal with a Narcissist or Psychopath:

The first advice I got about how to deal with a Narcissist or Psychopath is don't deal with them. Get as far away from them as you can!

I'd like to make a comment that Narcissists and Psychopaths are very closely related. Narcissists and Psychopaths are essentially the same and the only difference is the severity of their disorder.

They are incurable! You can't change them! As they get smarter, they get worse! There is no accumulation of credit with them. Any investment in them is futile! If you help them, they return the favor by hurting you back!

The way to deal with a Narcissist or Psychopath is as follows:

1. No contact! Establishing no contact with them will prevent them from further harming you and permit the begining of your recovery.

2. You may need some therapy to recover for the trauma(s) inflicted on you by the Narcissist or Psychopath. Consider therapies such as EMDR, Guided Imagery, Guided Meditation etc...

3. Re-programming you sub-conscious mind: Using NLP or affirmations re-program yourself, for example: "She is very sick", "She has a narcissistic personality disorder", "She is miserable".... etc.

4. Get on with your life (away from her!!!). Learn new things relevant for your recovery, your profession, your career, your family, your own well being... and start practising these new skills immediately to move on and have a happy succesful life and thus forget you ever met the Narcissists.


I hope that helps.
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Postby heatherbell » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:43 pm

General consensus seems to be that no, a narcissist cannot change. Confirms my own experience, but sometimes I thought my opinion may be slewed because I'm too close to the problem. Would love to get as far away as possible but it's impossible when it's a member of your own family. What to do? Really, really, really at end of my tether.
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Postby Mantis » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:03 pm

curious that someone mentioned a "gene" for it?

I think both my maternal grandfather and my uncle(mother's brother) suffered from severe narcissism, or were even psychopaths.
And, according to what other relatives have told me, including my mother and grandmother, they come from a long line of people who always acted "insufferably arrogant", completely egotistical and insensitive, and over-confident.

The weird thing is my grandfather was subjected to psychological assessment, and he was declared "sane". But those who knew him in private were terrorized by him.
He threatened to kill his wife, treated her like a slave all her life, although he wasn't physically abusive.
He was impossibly arrogant, treated everybody like crap, even those who were very kind to him.

My uncle is even worse. He has been unemployed since 2001, living on his wife's money(they have no kids), and on top of the fact that she supports him, he treats her like sh**, always picking fights, not doing anything around the house, spending her money on expensive hobbies, like chess club, ping-pong classes and what not.
And everybody who knows him thinks he is a total braggart, he's always arrogant, and acts like he knows everything, and that people around him are all "idiots".
He's choleric, and it's impossible to even talk to him..it's like, no matter what you say, he twists it into what he wants to hear. And almost without exception, starts an argument on the smallest, most insignificant subjects, like the weather, for instance.
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Postby Mantis » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:04 pm

P.S.

However, I am not so sure that it is indeed "genetic" or passed on from generation to generation, through upbringing.
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Postby tokeless » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:21 pm

Heather:
I guess the only advice I can suggest is that you, and none of us can predict or control what happens in life, but we can learn to control how we react to it.

How much contact do you have with this person. Do you live with them?

Best wishes
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Postby alrietto » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:00 am

Mantis wrote:... However, I am not so sure that it is indeed "genetic" or passed on from generation to generation, through upbringing.
Yes!!! Absolutely!!!

Narcissism and Psychopathy are not genetic disorders. These disorders may pass from generation to generation by learning the behaviour, by being victims and being abused during childhood.

The incapacity for empathy and real emotions towards their children is exactly what creates another generation of narcissists and psychopaths.

It is a communicable disease!!!

Stay away from them!!!

They are contageous!!!
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