Confused after talking to doctor... Please help

Postby whathaveidone » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:55 am

I'm on day 52 since my last joint. The things I went through in the few weeks after my last joint were so abrupt and severe that they had to be due to weed. I got checked by several doctors and they found nothing wrong with me.

It is slowly getting better but I still can't get proper sleep. Some days are better, but some days I'm miserable. I was never a hardcore user, I only smoked once in a while in 2019.

The thing is my psychiatrist told me today that the insomnia I'm currently experiencing can't be because of the weed, that it's my own anxiety. This has bummed me out because I was under the impression that this was PAWS and I would be better with time alone.

I don't think she knows about weed PAWS ..

Yeah I was anxious and depressive prior to weed but I had never had issues with sleep. I had my first panic attack mid 2019 after I had started smoking (just once in a while) and stopped. I went back to weed after a sober september and october and became a daily user in the last 2 months of 2019.

Right now I'm so tired and being tired makes me loopy, hopeless, and anxious. But I can't sleep... The doctor gave me Seroquel to try but I'm honestly scared of it, I feel like I'd rather smoke and watch a movie, unplug, and sleep...

Anyways... I'd love to hear your thoughts
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#1

Postby Unususal » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:42 am

Brother I am feeling the same.
Believe me I started taking ADs and I am feeling better, but i know that the meds are just a temporary solution.
I have this extremely irrational thoughts about demons and intrusive harm thoughts..feeling like I am going crazy really..I was desperate..thats why I took the meds.

My psychologist does not believe in Paws as well.
Keep telling me that i probably was anxious prior to weed and that is so not true.
I am an artist and was performing in front of crowds..never ever was I extremely anxious.
I guess they just don't understand paws.

Please hang in there and post your updates..
This forum is a huge help for me..

Stay strong..
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#2

Postby tokeless » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:52 am

Using weed on a regular basis can mask underlying mood and anxiety problems. If you get stoned you sleep easier so it's logical that if you take away the substance the underlying resurfaces at some point, ie after it leaves your system. Yes, everyone is different but did both of you have psychiatrist/psychologist before or during your smoking time? If so it suggests prior mood problems that are now coming to the fore? My own belief is we can over analyse how we feel and this heightens us to feel things we may not be so aware of if we just get on with life as a non smoker.. Some people don't like that or agree but hey it's an opinion. Projecting your own disbelief of doctors who tell you you're fine erks because you want confirmation of your own beliefs and there's the conflict.
Best wishes to you both
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#3

Postby Unususal » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:00 am

Thank you tokeless for your reply.
I never went to a psychologist or psychiatrist prior to this.
I never felt the need.
I always thought of myself as a well balanced individual. Got a great job and my music as a hobby / additional job.
My problems started 4-5 days after the last time i smoked. Thats when the irrational/intrusive thoughts and insomnia started.
I smoked for 6-9 months almost daily.
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#4

Postby Candid » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:58 am

whathaveidone wrote:my psychiatrist told me today that the insomnia I'm currently experiencing can't be because of the weed, that it's my own anxiety. This has bummed me out because I was under the impression that this was PAWS...


Yes, there are half a dozen posts a day from people blaming every psychological blip they experience on PAWS. What difference does it make, whathaveidone? You have insomnia. I intermittently have it too, and I haven't smoked weed since the Seventies.

This forum is a great space for the airing of our troubles, for some virtual company in adversity, but it has a way of inspiring long-term users to search themselves daily for PAWS symptoms to share here.

And what does PAWS mean, anyway? It means that after the tough time of quitting, the world looks a bit flat. Something's missing. Any long-term feel-good habit is like that. It's like a relationship break-up.

Seems to me that when you take away a big part of your life, you leave a hole that demands to be filled. My advice to anyone in this situation is that it isn't enough just to quit; you've got to run like hell in the opposite direction. I won't insult you by listing the sleep hygiene 'wisdom', with which my various doctors regularly beat me over the head, but how about visualising yourself as an athlete or superhero, and taking up running, or skydiving, or archery? IOW, replace the old habit with a much better one.

This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEThvdh ... tu.be&t=51 came up on another thread here yesterday. You may think it doesn't apply, but I think it does. It's a bit slow, so maybe start watching about midway and understand that getting over any of life's challenges is a head game.

If you see your problem already solved, it will be. Conversely, if you enjoy the virtual company of people posting in Addictions, you'll keep finding more and more 'PAWS symptoms' to write about. You'll be telling yourself every day that you can't cope without weed ... and we know where that's likely to lead.

Or you could become like tokeless:
tokeless wrote:My own belief is we can over analyse how we feel and this heightens us to feel things we may not be so aware of if we just get on with life as a non smoker [...] Projecting your own disbelief of doctors who tell you you're fine erks because you want confirmation of your own beliefs
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#5

Postby whathaveidone » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:18 pm

I totally agree with the video you sent me, and I do recognize I've played the victim a lot in my life.
Right now though it gets so tough to deal with anxiety and exhaustion at the same time, and the lack of interest in things makes it all so miserable.
I've never felt this way before, not even close.
I think it must have been triggered by weed, not just masked. I literally didn't smoke for two months feeling relatively okay before my 2 months of heavy use. I can't deny that the potential for a depressive episode was probably in me all a long, but I now believe it was triggered by weed. It must have been... Maybe that's what PAWS is? Major depression triggered by weed use? I also think it might have to do with quitting cold turkey after heavy habit.
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#6

Postby olympus92 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:48 am

I've had depression issues and some anxiety issues before weed but during the PAWS stage when I went sober was crap. PAWS is a real thing don't let anyone say otherwise the issues I had when I went sober was nothing I've experienced before in my life. I'm now 5 months clean and feeling a lot better about everything. Come check out my posts and you can get an idea of what I went though.

Also definitely can **** up your sleep pattern
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#7

Postby Eroica » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:32 am

Most health professionals other than those specialized in drug rehabilitation arent trained in PAWS. Most think weed is a harmless drug. And of course as a lot of them push drugs they will deny PAWS.
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#8

Postby Candid » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:00 pm

whathaveidone wrote:Right now though it gets so tough to deal with anxiety and exhaustion at the same time, and the lack of interest in things makes it all so miserable.
I've never felt this way before, not even close.


Hey, me too. Exactly those things, and in my case obviously it has nothing to do with smoking weed. My toker days made everything more interesting, right? But that was only because of the things that were missing or horrible to start with.

These days, feeling just as you've expressed here, it's because I'm one of the reluctantly retired. My two days a week volunteering for a national charity help a bit, but I often fall into a trough on the other days. Anxious, exhausted, lack of interest, plus not just "I've never felt this way before" (because actually I have), but that at my age, this may be permanent.

I think I need to take my own advice, and "run like hell in the opposite direction". Weed may be a long time in the past for me, but I seem to be stuck with cigarettes (more than 45 years!) and prescription drugs. I'm so glad you liked the video, and saw its relevance to your situation.

What's the opposite direction, for me? I don't see myself running in public wearing shorts and trainers, but there are other things I can do. We all know which behaviours are good for our bodies and which aren't.

How about you and I ignore the head problems for a while and focus on doing the right things for our bodies? Member quietvoice has lots of good ideas for that, and it was she who originally posted that video.

Yes, the misery seems to be in our heads, but I believe that if we set out to make our bodies happy, the head will follow. What do you reckon?
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#9

Postby tokeless » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:25 pm

Eroica wrote:Most health professionals other than those specialized in drug rehabilitation arent trained in PAWS. Most think weed is a harmless drug. And of course as a lot of them push drugs they will deny PAWS.


Can you clarify what trained in PAWS means and how they train for that? I worked in addiction services for 17 years and have never heard of such a thing... Thank you
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#10

Postby tokeless » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm

"Come check out my posts and you can get an idea of what I went though"

Mmm, really? How would this help?
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#11

Postby Candid » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:58 pm

tokeless wrote:My own belief is we can over analyse how we feel and this heightens us to feel things we may not be so aware of if we just get on with life as a non smoker [...] Projecting your own disbelief of doctors who tell you you're fine erks because you want confirmation of your own beliefs


Getting on with life as a non-smoker means you don't count the days since your last blast. All that achieves is to keep your focus on life as a smoker.

Counting the days seems to be a favourite pastime for some people here, and it can't possibly be helpful. Don't see it as the removal of a pleasurable sin, but as the joyful return of all the things you missed out on while you were obsessed with your habit.

ETA: Just to be clear, this was not a reply to tokeless, but intended for those people blaming everything on PAWS.
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#12

Postby Eroica » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:57 pm

tokeless wrote:
Eroica wrote:Most health professionals other than those specialized in drug rehabilitation arent trained in PAWS. Most think weed is a harmless drug. And of course as a lot of them push drugs they will deny PAWS.


Can you clarify what trained in PAWS means and how they train for that? I worked in addiction services for 17 years and have never heard of such a thing... Thank you


Trained to identify the symptoms of PAWS. Wow, if you worked in addiction services and dont believe in withdrawal symptoms while gaslighting your patients about their suffering, I really feel for them.

Why do you continue to troll the board?
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#13

Postby Candid » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:22 pm

Eroica wrote:Trained to identify the symptoms of PAWS.


Ooh! Oooh! I know, I know!

Agoraphobia
Anger outbursts
Anxiety
Crying
Depression
Falling hair
Headaches
Ingrown toenails
Insomnia
Isolation
Joint pains
Loneliness
Migraines
Nightmares
Runny nose
Stomach cramps

... and the many more I've seen on this board in my nearly 10 years here. You can't get any of those things any other way, can you? No, if you've been smoking for a while, then you stop, and you miss it, anything you're not happy about is a symptom of PAWS. And it can go on for decades!
You may never get over it!
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#14

Postby Candid » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:39 pm

Here's a few more recent ones:

I am 130 days clean of marijuana, a little over 4 months.

cravings
extreme anxiety attacks for what would be the whole month
Couldn’t get out of bed in the morning idk how I manage to go to work
depression and ocd thoughts
can’t sleep more than 4 hours
exhausted and tired of this situation
I repeat lyrics of songs over and over till it feels like my head will blow
I’m desperate
scared that this is me and I have mental illness now


Yep, there's no end to it.
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