What does the word "forgiveness" mean?

Postby Carla2016 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:11 am

Hi All,

I have a problem with the word "forgiveness".
Wherever you go, whatever the pain you go through in your life, people repeatedly mention this bloody word.
So if I well understood, I am going to hurt someone tomorrow and I will be happy about it because he/she will forgive me. And I am sure that he/she will find a way to heal.
How great!
Unfortunately, I am not the devil...I don't hurt people like that :evil:

I will NEVER forgive the 2 employees who triggered my resignation from my dream job back in March!
I will NEVER forgive myself that I did not fight for my job or confront the bullying manager because I was scared to lose my job! I even gave up the legal case due to homelessness...

The result was long-term unemployment, weight gain, binge eating disorder (I used to be a good cook) depression, friends loss, rare contacts with family, no hobbies, loneliness, symptoms of my previous sickness came back...I even found a few grey hairs!

I am starting a basic job soon, I am very far from getting my previous position back unless I marry the boss...
Sad that I have not healed yet from the pain inflicted by the people I am encouraged to forgive...
My heart is so sad
Carla
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:36 am

Carla2016 wrote:I will NEVER forgive the 2 employees who triggered my resignation from my dream job back in March!


Carla, they are not asking for you to forgive them. They don't care. So you NEVER forgiving them is your problem, not theirs.

You NEVER forgiving yourself is part of the problem and then you NEVER learning that your beliefs, how you think the world is suppose to operate is another part of the problem. For instance, in this thread you say you were homeless, but in another thread you say you need money, but plan to take a cab to work everyday. You are your own worst enemy. If you would stop focusing all your energy on others and start focusing on yourself, you might be able to take a new path in life, a path you might actually enjoy.
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#2

Postby Carla2016 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:50 am

U are right there...I have not found my own path yet.

I found it last year when I found my dream job: I started to look after myself, bought a new car, even had a few friends to keep me company...I just needed my own home. Had problems with the person I was living with, this brought stress to work. I had no time for myself...working 50h a wk, sometimes on weekends!
Some bloody idiots took it away from me...why couldn't they forgive me? Because they had the financial power. People like them, they are allowed to hurt and get away with it. They sill owe me my last salary though!
Have a good day! CB
PS: you look good on the picture in this forum Rich'. I won't post mine because you won't stop contacting me LOL
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#3

Postby outsquare » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:02 am

i am sorry to hear that you lost your dream job. i have to say that to me it seems that you haven't been completely fair and honest with yourself about yourself. i think you might hurt them too, even more then you think. the awareness of un-proper actions can lead you to learn what compassion is and also important, self-forgiveness. be well.
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#4

Postby catfancier42 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:57 pm

Forgiveness can be a confusing concept. Here's my current understanding:

There is only one moment in life in which you actually live: the present. All the choices you make in life, the changes, everything in which you have actual say or influence over how life unfolds, all that happens right here, right now. The past is past and can only be remembered and possibly reinterpreted, not undone or otherwise changed. The future is not yet written and can only be imagined and planned for. Life itself--whether you are remembering the past, occupied with the present moment, or planning for the future--all of it happens in one single moment: the present moment.

So, Carla, this moment is all you have. What are you doing with it? Forgiveness is a tool for a particular sort of problem. It addresses the problem people have when their present moment becomes dominated by some painful past event. In your scenario, you were fired from the job you loved for reasons you deem unfair. This was a painful past event. But what you are doing now is worse: rather than experiencing the pain of losing your job and then moving on, you are instead choosing to continually relive what happened to you. Your present moment has been taken over by your past pain. So what are you actually doing here? By continuing to bring the pain of the past into the present, you are extending your own torment! And this is where forgiveness comes into play.

Forgiveness is a tool designed to help you move on from the pain you suffered in the past and return to living more fully and freely in the present. As you can now see, its primary purpose is to help you, not the person you are forgiving. Here are some steps you might take in actually going about doing it:

1. Acknowledge that what happened in the past cannot be changed. You cannot go back in time and avoid being fired from your job.
2. Realize that the only moment you have any control over in life is the present moment. If you are going to move forward with your life, you are going to have to do it in the here and now.
3. Choose to begin living in the present moment instead of the past. Ask yourself questions like, What is something positive I can do right now? Go outside and just sit somewhere that you can practice watching life unfold as it happens, maybe in a park or something where you can watch nature instead of people (which may encourage a relapse into negativity.). The idea here is that your brain has a habit: looking into the past and dragging up painful memories. You want to gradually replace that habit with a new one: being attuned to the present moment and taking positive actions in it that will promote a better future.
4. Gradually attempt to reframe what happened to you in the past. I waited to put this step here because it helps to put a little distance between yourself and the painful events in your past before trying to do it. What does reframing your past mean? It means taking your present wisdom and insight and applying it to a painful past event in a way that transforms it and helps you heal. For instance, let's say you were to become a more self-aware person in the present, more mindful of your faults as they actually are, rather than what you had previously just assumed them to be. Well, when you bring that awareness to your past, you might better notice the ways in which your behavior encouraged the event of your getting fired. And if you are able to become okay with idea of being human being with both strengths and weaknesses, you might be able to look back and better understand why your managers acted as they did. Not only will you be able to see both the good and the bad in their actions, but rather than treating them as horrible demons you will begin to see them as fellow people just like yourself: people who have reasons for why they do what they do, however poorly conceived, and even if what they do isn't always the right thing. All of this helps you to come to terms with your past experience. By seeing it more clearly and in a healthier, more realistic context, a lot of your negative feelings will be able to resolve and let go. You no longer have reason to feel them.

As you can see, forgiveness is not easy! Which is why it is so easy to struggle with it. Yet I think it is safe to say that the alternative of continually reliving your past pain is much worse. Not only do you have the pain itself, but all the delusion about reality that goes with it. I believe this is something of what Jesus points to in his instruction to remove the log from your own eye before picking at the speck in your neighbor's. When you remove the log, then and only then do you see clearly enough to get at your neighbor's speck. It is only by going through the process of forgiveness that we have the humanity and humility necessary to even begin to accurately ascertain the faults of someone else.

So, realize that you will not forgive in a day. It is a process that of necessity takes time, and it is vital to be patient, kind, and understanding with yourself as you go through it. But if you are committed to moving forward in life, forgiveness is the only way to do that 100%. If we are bound in the past, how can we live fully in the present?

Note: It can be important to distinguish between two thinking states when practicing forgiveness: active thinking and re-active thinking. In active thinking you are in the driver's seat of your brain, so to speak, actively thinking about what you choose and choosing how to think about what you are thinking about. But in re-active thinking you are swept up, as it were, in the raging sea of your own thoughts. There is no self-awareness in re-active thinking; you are simply lost in the narratives and emotions of the thought stream. Part of cultivating living in the present moment is the gradual transition from predominately re-active thinking to more and more active thinking. When you struggle with unforgiveness, what tends to happen is that you get swept up in painful past memories and experience all the emotions associated with them, over and over again, without any real feeling of control. In order to forgive, you will be learning to be present with your thoughts without getting lost in them; that is, you will be learning to think more actively. By engaging in active thinking with past painful memories, you are able to explore and learn from them rather than simply getting swept up in them yet again.

Wow. I posted more than I intended. I realize that my explanation of forgiveness may be rather complicated. I would encourage you to just use whatever you can understand and that seems useful to you. Maybe the rest will make sense later? Or perhaps someone with clearer explanations will come along!
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#5

Postby Carla2016 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm

Thanks outsquare.
You are right, I actually hurt them on my resignation day. They did not expect it at all.
When I contacted the MD to withdraw my resignation, he finished me off by sacking me instead of accepting my resignation. He recruited 4 wks later a younger lady who has never worked in the industry before, has no experience.

On her starting day, I was in court without a lawyer asking for my money and a decent reference for all my hard work. For 2 hours, I have heard some humiliating comments about me, I was crying. They left the court room with their lawyer, a big smile on their face. I stayed their on my own crying. My God this was just awful...
A board member - who was my ally and supported my future promotion - said that the atmosphere in the entire company 200 employees was cold, sad, confusing...There was no proper good bye. The production manager - I insulted - has ruined my reputation inside and outside the company. Last wk, a previous customer rejected my application because of bad references.
(sorry i am in tears, have to stop writing. Thanks)
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#6

Postby Carla2016 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:51 pm

Thanks for your long post catfancier42. I appreciate your efforts.
I have tried your points already...the managers DID something wrong, their actions were not justified. They did not obey the labour law in this country.
The damage has already been done. I want to hang myself after I shoot them.
I even don't want to start a new job next week. I am not ready. I may actually call them and decline it.

I want revenge. If I did not have a loving family, I would have bought a gun and kill the production manager and my boss.
I know where they live. I can wait for them in front of their house, say hello and shoot. Unless they give me my job back!

They both have 4 children, I have none. I have no life, no career. I don't f***ing care about the loss they may experience.
They don't care about God or about me.

On the other hand, I don't want my family to come here and pay me a visit in a prison. They cannot speak the language.
My disabled brother would be devastated, he loves me so much that he won't stop crying...
The company is only 10 min drive from where I live. I cannot even drive on the motorway - I used to take to go to work
They will suffer and this will happen very soon. This thought gives me hope.
Thank you ALL for reading my posts in this forum
Bye now
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#7

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:21 pm

Carla2016 wrote:...the managers DID something wrong, their actions were not justified. They did not obey the labour law in this country.


If that was true, you would have a legal case against them. That is justice.

What you are talking about is not justice, but the exact opposite. It is not justice for you to decide that because you were let go that it is okay then to take another person's life, let alone multiple people that have children. That is ridiculous and ignorant. It is an ongoing theme with your anger. You blame others, yet it is you that has the problem, it is you that is blinded by your emotion.

You should leave the country where you are now and go back to your family with your brother. Seek professional help for your emotional issues. In time, maybe with the support of your family you will be able to see life more clearly.

P.S. it is beyond hypocritical to claim they don't care about a spiritual ideology, i.e. God, while in the same post you are discussing murdering people.
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#8

Postby Carla2016 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm

The production manager who triggered my resignation has spent 5 months in a Psychiatric unit because he dared confronting the MD. A guy like him should have compassion for fragile employees!
To win a legal case, you need finance Mr!
My anger is justified
I am not done yet with the ex-employer. I will hurt them and we will meet in hell. Promise
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#9

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:35 pm

Carla2016 wrote:To win a legal case, you need finance Mr!


Uh, no you don't. If you have a worthwhile case, the lawyers will jump all over helping you get your just damages. They take a cut of the damages, that is how they make money.

Example, I testified in a workplace injury case. The injured employee did not pay a single euro. The companies involved in the lawsuit ended up paying roughly 25 million euros to the employee, of which the lawyers took 35%. The injured employee got the rest.
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#10

Postby Carla2016 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:43 pm

That is different, easy case!
Harassment is harder
Stop reading the Daily Mail!
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#11

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:13 pm

Carla2016 wrote:That is different, easy case!
Harassment is harder
Stop reading the Daily Mail!


Oh Carla, between you and I who do you really think needs to stop believing everything they hear? How is what you believe working out for you in life? How is what I believe working out? Between you and I, who do you believe has a better understanding of the legal system? A person that worked in the justice system for many years, testifying in court more times than I can count, including two cases where people were executed as well as the $20 million euro case I mentioned in my previous post or yourself? How many times have you testified in court, how many legal cases have you been involved with? If you can say over 1,000 cases you have me beat and I concede to your greater life experience dealing with the justice system than I.

Yes, a harassment case is harder to prove, but if the employee does have a case it does not require they have money to hire a lawyer. If they have a case, the lawyer sues and is paid from the damages won. If any lawyer tries to charge you money to sue on your behalf, RUN! If that happens, the lawyer is basically telling you that it is not a good case, but they are willing to let you pay them and waste your money.
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#12

Postby quietvoice » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:29 pm

From your first thread:
Carla2016 wrote:In March, I lost the job of my dreams after 9 months working abroad. . . .

I loved my job as a Sales Manager, my colleagues, my customers. However, I have suffered for months from psychological harassment.

And so, this clearly was not the Dream Job that it first appeared to be, due to the working environment.

I would chalk it up to experience and move on.
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#13

Postby Carla2016 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:21 pm

Hi Quietvoice,
You are right. Working conditions were horrible. Was always on business trips though
I was performance-oriented unlike my other colleagues.
I loved my job so much that I forgot the harassment...

The painful thing - I cannot overcome today - is my withdrawal of my own resignation which was turned into a dismissal by the MD who has an ego problem. He enjoys sacking people. 20 in 12 months...
Had I resigned properly, I would have felt much better now. No court case and they would have paid me the 4 wks notice
I was so stupid and I cannot forgive myself for this! I was so bad in the end...
Thanks
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#14

Postby catfancier42 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:45 pm

When really difficult and upsetting things happen to us, it's really easy to act less than perfectly and to feel a lot of anger. You are far from alone in being human, Carla!

Being successful isn't about not making mistakes; it's about using them as further opportunities to learn and grow.

Those mangers of yours who seem to revel in causing others pain? Probably have a lot of unaddressed issues in their personal lives. Egos they need to defend at all costs/insecurity, etc.

These are people who avoid facing their problems, and in doing so there is a tendency to lash out against other people.

You can't control them, but you can learn to control yourself. Allow yourself grace to be human and make mistakes, and learn as you are able. It's okay to be angry over injustice. But when it starts to ruin your life, it's time to ask yourself why you would want to torment yourself so? You are worth more than that.
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