My sister came out to me as transgender and I’m not buying

#15

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:53 pm

And to say your piece or share your beliefs does not mean a one time conversation and then you remain silent. It means if she comes for advice, give it and then let her reflect and make a decision if she wants more advice or not. If she comes back for more advice, give it and then again, let her decide what to do with it, how to integrate it into her world view.

The cycle of advice/reflection cannot be forced.
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#16

Postby Candid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:40 am

Yennefer wrote:I was gladly busy in taking care of my own life, you can believe that. But I'm not able to do so since my sister droppend this bomb on me.


I get that. I felt the same way when my baby brother came out as gay. I was worried for him, about the discrimination and possibly danger he would face. Our parents weren't happy about it either. It took time for everyone to get used to the idea, and ultimately we wouldn't have him any other way. You'll find it makes no difference to how you live your life.

We are a family, and as part of her family it is my precise responsibility to reach the bottom of this whole thing with her. And I don't think I have to apologize if I have a thing or two to say on the matter.


So now he's come to you in tears because you don't accept him the way he is on the inside.

But still, do you realize she has only encountered encouragment because she has always only looked up for help from people who would have agree with her?


Isn't that what you did in posting here? You hoped people here would be as shocked as you are, and when a couple of us have questioned your high-handedness, you want to argue about it. As quietvoice pointed out, your sister is legally adult... and about to take the first steps towards becoming your brother.

I was her first obstacle and she crumbled! She was totally torn apart, she cried and we had to stop the conversation and go take some fresh air. How does she think is gonna go with other people? With our parents? I think that if one is secure and strong with his/her feelings, no word from anyone could change things.


You haven't changed how he feels about his gender, but you've changed how he feels about you. Lots of people are rejected by their families when they come out as gay or transgender. They find support networks elsewhere, with others who've gone through the same thing. There's a term for it: family of choice, as opposed to family of origin. Would you prefer he lead a double life, being fake with you and true to himself elsewhere? Or abandon you?

He gave you the choice. You should feel honoured you were the first family member he told. You may want to rethink what family love and responsibility mean to you.

And it took 32 years of his life to take the decision and much therapy and counselling, and family support.


Is this what you wish for your 'sister' -- that he spend another 20 years or so living a lie to make you feel better? Where is the family support in this?
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#17

Postby Yennefer » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:56 am

Candid wrote:I get that. I felt the same way when my baby brother came out as gay. I was worried for him, about the discrimination and possibly danger he would face. Our parents weren't happy about it either. It took time for everyone to get used to the idea, and ultimately we wouldn't have him any other way. You'll find it makes no difference to how you live your life.


Yeah, sorry but not exaclty the same thing. I don't give a damn about being gay, nothing changes for me. It's none of my business who people prefer in the bedroom or towards who they are attracted to. We are talking about having a sex change here. A thing that includes a chemical treatment (that is not exactly a happy walk in the woods) and various surgical intervents. Like, are you seriously putting being gay on the same page as being transexual?


Candid wrote:So now he's come to you in tears because you don't accept him the way he is on the inside.


She, for Heaven's sake. And yes, I don't because this thing came out of the blue, and knowing all of the other issues she has inside this is probably the one thing she choosed to address everything into. I'm not going to call my sister my brother until she has gone through proper psychiatric consult and therapy, and until doctorS state that this is a certain case of dysphoria and needs to be treated as such. I don't give a flying f*ck about "people on the internet who shares their experiences so maybe other people can relate". This is the kind of thing that contributes to make a huge damage to insecure people who find this stuff the more comfortable way to have confrontation with.

Candid wrote:Isn't that what you did in posting here? You hoped people here would be as shocked as you are, and when a couple of us have questioned your high-handedness, you want to argue about it. As quietvoice pointed out, your sister is legally adult... and about to take the first steps towards becoming your brother.


I posted here because I needed to see if other people were in a similar situation and to share the way they managed it. BUT as I posted in my OP the first people I went to were my husband and my best friend (who, for the matter, knows a thing or two about the transition process). It wasn't for sure my very first thought to seek help from strangers. I went to flesh and blood folks first.

Candid wrote:You haven't changed how he feels about his gender, but you've changed how he feels about you. Lots of people are rejected by their families when they come out as gay or transgender. They find support networks elsewhere, with others who've gone through the same thing. There's a term for it: family of choice, as opposed to family of origin. Would you prefer he lead a double life, being fake with you and true to himself elsewhere? Or abandon you?

He gave you the choice. You should feel honoured you were the first family member he told. You may want to rethink what family love and responsibility mean to you.


Or maybe you may want to rethink what the concepts of sisterhood and worriyng mean to you. I didn't rejected what she told me. Despite my nature I tried with all my streght to talk about this with softness, care and acceptance, but as I said above, I'm not gonna buy anything that comes from the fears and fragilities of a lonely, insecure and depressed person, who has seen a therapist for the first time in her life four months ago. I need her to take this path much more seriously than she is now, and to solve all the issues that she has as a base of her inner self BEFORE thinking that everything is to be addressed to the fact that she may feel some masculine shade inside.

Candid wrote:Is this what you wish for your 'sister' -- that he spend another 20 years or so living a lie to make you feel better? Where is the family support in this?


I wish for her what is RIGHT. Not for me, but for her. And if this means to spend the rest of her life in the research of truth, then so be it. I prefer that she takes the slow but more reflective path, instead of the fast but dangerous and risky one.
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#18

Postby Candid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:54 pm

Yennefer wrote:She, for Heaven's sake.


For your sake, it seems.

I need her to take this path much more seriously...


I posted here because I needed to see if other people were in a similar situation and to share the way they managed it


Put "transgender" into the search facility (top of page). You have plenty of company.
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#19

Postby quietvoice » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:24 pm

Yennefer wrote: A thing that includes a chemical treatment (that is not exactly a happy walk in the woods) and various surgical intervents.

What are your thoughts on chemotherapy?
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#20

Postby Yennefer » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:31 pm

Candid wrote:Put "transgender" into the search facility (top of page). You have plenty of company.


And you have plenty of work, looks like.

quietvoice wrote:
Yennefer wrote: A thing that includes a chemical treatment (that is not exactly a happy walk in the woods) and various surgical intervents.

What are your thoughts on chemotherapy?


I really hope you're not making a comparison to cancer here.

Anyway, I appreciate all the answers but it seems like that just one person here was able to stay neutral on the theme. I didn't come here to fight nor to have people I need to justify my thoughts and feelings with. Great to know my sister will have all the possible support from strangers who don't even know how her face looks like. But who cares, I mean. Being open to diversity, even forcing diversity out of everything seems to be the new last trend. All of sudden good people are everywhere, everyone is supportive and with a huge smile on the face in front of things that need maybe more than just 5 minutes to be analized. Everyone is so good being a doctor, a psychiatrist, a therapist. Never been so easy. Why, I wonder, I still waste my time studying, when I could do all the job staying online and giving everyone my two cents. Whatever makes you people sleep.

Admins can close this thread, I'm done.
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#21

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:50 pm

Yennefer wrote:
Candid wrote:So now he's come to you in tears because you don't accept him the way he is on the inside.


She, for Heaven's sake. And yes, I don't because this thing came out of the blue, and knowing all of the other issues she has inside this is probably the one thing she choosed to address everything into. I'm not going to call my sister my brother until she has gone through proper psychiatric consult and therapy, and until doctorS state that this is a certain case of dysphoria and needs to be treated as such.


You see the trick Yennefer.

You don’t accept someone for who they are on the inside? Really? Again, let’s go back to what we can prove scientifically or what we based on faith “feel” that we want to believe. Candid has likened gender to the same as a soul. That is a belief, not science.

Scientifically your sister has ovaries inside of her. Scientifically she has large amounts of estrogen inside of her. Scientifically she has XX chromosomes inside of her. Point to me where inside her she is male?

The issue with surgery and hormone therapy is that these are invasive ways that a person modifies their body cosmetically using science to be more inline with a belief. It is cosmetic body modification.

A belief is a result of our minds. For example, I believe I am of a different race, so I take steps to lighten or darken my skin. It is a belief. Changing my skin color aligns with my belief, but scientifically my dna is what it is. My ethnicity/race is not assigned to me by my parents any more than my gender is assigned to me.

This doesn’t mean I’m against people aligning their bodies with their beliefs. We do it all the time. But, our beliefs are influenced by sociocultural factors. Our beliefs change over time, while body modification is often much more permanent.

Again, I feel for you. As a sibling, all you can offer your sister is your advice that gender is based on science, not feeling.
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#22

Postby quietvoice » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:09 pm

Yennefer wrote:
quietvoice wrote:What are your thoughts on chemotherapy?

I really hope you're not making a comparison to cancer here.

I am just curious, this being an open forum . . .
Not a comparison, but wondering on your thoughts of pushing chemicals (poison) into a person's body generally. You are okay with the idea of pushing poisons into those with a diagnosis of cancer?


Yennefer wrote:Anyway, I appreciate all the answers but it seems like that just one person here was able to stay neutral on the theme.

Who was neutral?

Yennefer wrote:I didn't come here to fight nor to have people I need to justify my thoughts and feelings with. Great to know my sister will have all the possible support from strangers who don't even know how her face looks like. But who cares, I mean. Being open to diversity, even forcing diversity out of everything seems to be the new last trend. All of sudden good people are everywhere, everyone is supportive and with a huge smile on the face in front of things that need maybe more than just 5 minutes to be analized. Everyone is so good being a doctor, a psychiatrist, a therapist. Never been so easy. Why, I wonder, I still waste my time studying, when I could do all the job staying online and giving everyone my two cents. Whatever makes you people sleep.

Rant.

Yennefer wrote:Admins can close this thread, I'm done.

In other words, you didn't get the answer that you wanted.
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#23

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:34 pm

quietvoice wrote:
Yennefer wrote:Admins can close this thread, I'm done.

In other words, you didn't get the answer that you wanted.


Sounds a bit like it.

I think Yennefer wants an answer regarding how she can be more of an influence in her sisters life than for lack of a better term, "less significant" others. She believes she knows her sister better than these other people in her life, she believes her sister is listening to people that don't really care about her, but instead are just pushing their own agenda.

It would be similar to a family member coming into the forum and asking how to deal with a sibling that is being influenced by a group that does not share the same values, often times termed a cult. It is scary for a family member to see a loved one get swept up in a ideological movement.

The issue then becomes the OP learning to accept that all she can do is offer her opinions. She can only offer advice to her sister regarding her thoughts about the beliefs of this other group. The OP wants a solution that doesn't align with reality. It is very common for family members to see a member going down a path they see as less than healthy. Regardless, the reality revolves around trying to provide advice, alternatives, and opinions while not pushing the family member away.
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#24

Postby Candid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:48 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:she believes her sister is listening to people that don't really care about her, but instead are just pushing their own agenda.


This is based on the laughable notion that LGBTs like nothing better than to 'recruit' from the straight community.

The OP wants a solution that doesn't align with reality.


Indeed. The sister wasn't approached by a horde of placard-waving sex-change enthusiasts; she went looking for support and found it. It's natural to want to come out to family members once the decision has been made and action is about to be taken, as appears to be the case here. I hope the OP can accept facts, because legally she can't change them.
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#25

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:07 pm

Candid wrote:This is based on the laughable notion that LGBTs like nothing better than to 'recruit' from the straight community.


I agree it is based on a "notion" a belief about a community of people. To what extent it is laughable is dependent on one's perspective. LGBT is an ideological movement. There is nothing necessarily good or bad about it relative to any other ideological community.

The idea people don't "recruit" from other communities is simply not supported by what we can observe. Of course they do. How vocal they are varies, the methods they use vary, but it is very much an aspect of any community to promote their own interests, welcoming new members, receiving new members, educating and indoctrinating and recruiting. It is tribalism. It has been taking place for 300,000 years, it is normal. To pretend the LGBT community somehow acts different than any other community on earth is simply false.

I hope the OP can accept facts, because legally she can't change them.


Agreed. I hope the OP does learn to accept the limits of her role in her sisters life. It can be very difficult to see a sibling join a community which goes counter to one's own beliefs. Families have been torn apart by ideological differences throughout history. Brother against brother as the saying goes, with families divided as a massive disagreement in beliefs tears them apart.

This doesn't mean siblings must accept each others beliefs. As I have been repeating and trying my best to get across in this thread, is that we must respect each others right to choose what we believe in. That doesn't mean we must accept each others beliefs.

Just as an example, I don't have to accept your belief in ghosts, but hopefully I can respect your right to believe in ghosts. It doesn't mean when you point at a chair and say, "See that ghost?" that I must pretend to see it because it is what you wish to believe. I can be polite, I can be respectful. I don't have to say you are stupid for seeing a ghost. But, I don't have to say, "yes, I see it."

IMO the OP is struggling, because she sees that she has less influence over her sibling than these "outsiders," this group of people she believes don't know her sister. I can respect that must be very frustrating. Regardless, this doesn't change the reality of options available. You don't do yourself any favors by lashing out at the community. Your only real option is to use whatever time you do have available with a sibling to continue to keep channels of communication open.
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#26

Postby Candid » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:01 am

Are you serious? I don't believe any amount of propaganda can turn a straight person gay, or vice versa.

The OP described her sister as depressed and messed up, as anyone would be when assumptions are made about sexuality based on physical attributes. The 'sister' must have known s/he was likely to be rejected by family members.

I perceive this "ideological movement" as people standing up for their legal rights. If some of them come across as strident -- and I agree, they do --- it's because they're angry at having been suppressed for so long.
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#27

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:41 pm

Candid wrote:Are you serious? I don't believe any amount of propaganda can turn a straight person gay, or vice versa.


-1- Transgender is not about sexual arousal. It is about being confused about one’s gender. It is about “feeling” like a woman when biologically one is a man. That is neither gay nor lesbian. I understand they are often lumped together. I understand you like to conflate them as equivalent. I wonder why? Maybe because they are part of the same ideological community, suffering similar slings and arrows of society? Maybe because of this popular notion that we can’t scientifically point to a “gay gene” so it is just a feeling one has? A person might feel like a woman in a man’s body so that is exactly the same? No.

-2- I know you don’t want to believe environment plays a role in sexuality. I know you wish to believe it is 100% genetic. You are wrong. Men do not go into prison straight and come out gay because of some genetic predisposition of gay men being criminals and the prison population being such a loving an accepting community. How a person knows they are gay is based on sexual arousal, sexual attraction to members of the same sex. Society plays a role in suppressing or supporting what triggers sexual arousal. Hence we see wide variations in homosexuality throughout history. It hasn’t always been about 100% genetic and men being scared and suppressed, needing to hide their gayness in the proverbial closet. That is today’s popular notion, using a myopic historical view to support the beliefs of the oppressed.

-3- An ideological community does not require all members qualify or pass some test to join and be embraced. I can support and wave a flag and be involved in parades and fight for an ideology even though I am not the target population of that ideology. In other words, I can be ideological aligned with rights for women without being a women, the same as I can be for racial equality for all without being a minority. The LBGT movement is no different. You try to make it sound like a club where you get a membership card. That is innacurate. You need not be lesbian nor gay nor queer to be part of the ideological community.

The OP described her sister as depressed and messed up, as anyone would be when assumptions are made about sexuality based on physical attributes.


As would a young adult be depressed and messed up when they are told again and again and again that gender is not a physical reality, but a fluid concept about whatever a they feel, up to and including feeling like a man then a woman then a man. This is also part of the ideology. Have life changing cosmetic body modification today, but you might feel different tomorrow.

Candid, you have very strong beliefs of what is true regarding this issue. Without any doubt gender is a feeling! End of story, full stop. No possibility that a person might make a mistake getting the surgery. The fact they give the surgery serious consideration is the only proof you need. Give an idea serious thought, and you are undoubtedly not suffering from a mental issue, but you 100% are guaranteed a legit transgender.

Not everyone has such surety that just because a person seriously considers a major life decision, that this in and of itself is proof of some underlying truth. This young 20 year old might not use the Candid measurement of truth-o-meter. Feeling strongly about something, being passionate and really wanting it to be true, doesn’t always make it so.

The proof is simple. There are many cases of postop regret. There are cases of buyers remorse. The surgery statistically has done nothing to reduce suicide rates amongst the population that self-identifies as transgender. There is ample evidence that it doesn’t always make a person happy or any less confused. So just because someone has given a topic lots of deep thought, is not a good indication of truth.
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#28

Postby PrettyBoi » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:38 am

Hi,

I’m writing to you as a member of the lgbt community- I’m a 28yr old woman that has seen/lived this situation over and over and over again in my lgbt community...

First thing- it’s great you are trying to find a way to help your sister. I am a big sister and when I read your post I could see that your support means your protection- that’s what big sisters do. We don’t want to see our little ones get hurt or make potentially stupid decisions like permanently altering their body before their brain is even permanently developed... I see you!


My first advice: don’t panic! kids coming out in the lgbt community don’t have a script to follow when we are young like traditional people do; most of us can’t or don’t come out until after high school because of fear, guilt, confusion etc... essentially, we can be late bloomers when it comes to developing self-concept/identity because nobody has really set the path for us....your sister may be trying on many identities that are all under the general “lgbt” umbrella until she finds her true identity, and that’ll take longer than your average Hetero kid who’s entire life is clearly scripted for them... patience! Give her extra time than you’d give a normal 20yr old girl

My other best advice:
Don’t resist her too hard... that’s the moment where she stops trusting you. it’s pribably just a phase.

**ive seen at least ten friends proclaim in social media or via text that they were transgender and getting hormones asap and I suddenly had to support that or go away.... only 2 of these friends actually got on hormones, the ones who could have passed for grown men already, and neither has gotten a surgery yet (it’s been years)
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