Trying to find people in similar situations

Postby Cleveland1988 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:00 pm

I find that most people who are angry are either:

1. big, burly, dominant dudes who get angry when their dominance is challenged and

2. people who have a very complex type of "anger" that seems more inward-directed.

Mine is physical anger related to a physical problem.

I get into a physical fight about once every 2-3 years, which is normal for this neighborhood and any neighborhood I can afford to live in. People tell me small towns are safer but when I try living in small towns the only thing that changes is that instead of getting picked on by some big, burly, black drug dealer/gang member, I'm getting picked on by some big, burly, white drug dealer in a biker gang. The concept of a "safe area" is heavily influenced by racism I can't help but believe. Every town I move to there's big burly dudes pushing me around.

Every time I try to defend myself it fails. Miserably.

I'm autistic and I have terrible hand-eye coordination.

I can't conceal carry, not even a taser or mace, because I've been inside psychiatric hospitals.

Not sure where to go from here but I have a feeling I'll need to retype this sometime with pages of details that I left out.

Usually everyone's response is something that does not apply to the situation and, usually, they would not make that reponse to me if I had typed in more details.
Cleveland1988
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
Likes Received: 0


#1

Postby Cleveland1988 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:03 pm

I also feel alone because other people are "angry" because they just plain like causing pain toward others...tortured animals when they were children, etc.

I'd like to find more people who are angry because they've been ostracized, shunned, and "othered" their whole lives like I have. I feel like finding those people would be good for my mental health.

I've tried self defense training and the instructors don't even think I'm trying. You can't expect them to hold back a class of 30 students and spend the entire class, every class, pulling me aside and explaining things to me a hundred times that other students get their first time. And no, not doing this doesn't mean they're "not good instructors" and I just need to find a "good" one.
Cleveland1988
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
Likes Received: 0

#2

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:33 am

Cleveland1988 wrote:I find that most people who are angry are either:
1. big, burly, dominant dudes who get angry when their dominance is challenged and
2. people who have a very complex type of "anger" that seems more inward-directed.
Mine is physical anger related to a physical problem. I get into a physical fight about once every 2-3 years, which is normal for this neighborhood and any neighborhood I can afford to live in. People tell me small towns are safer but when I try living in small towns the only thing that changes is that instead of getting picked on by some big, burly, black drug dealer/gang member, I'm getting picked on by some big, burly, white drug dealer in a biker gang. The concept of a "safe area" is heavily influenced by racism I can't help but believe. Every town I move to there's big burly dudes pushing me around.
Every time I try to defend myself it fails. Miserably.
I'm autistic and I have terrible hand-eye coordination. I can't conceal carry, not even a taser or mace, because I've been inside psychiatric hospitals.
I also feel alone because other people are "angry" because they just plain like causing pain toward others...tortured animals when they were children, etc.
I'd like to find more people who are angry because they've been ostracized, shunned, and "othered" their whole lives like I have. I feel like finding those people would be good for my mental health.
I've tried self defense training and the instructors don't even think I'm trying. You can't expect them to hold back a class of 30 students and spend the entire class, every class, pulling me aside and explaining things to me a hundred times that other students get their first time. And no, not doing this doesn't mean they're "not good instructors" and I just need to find a "good" one.


Hi Cleveland,

The way I understand what you have written is that you seem only to have a problem with Anger because you lose all your fights, and that you would be so much more okay with it if you were the Big Bully pushing his weight around. Now, yes, of course, in Male Dominated Social Groups there can be a lot of Dominance Behavior – assertions of Leadership and Territory Ownership. But studies have also shown that Egalitarianism is also a Powerful Force in Male Groups, and often the Effective Leader (the Guy that everyone actually follows around) is actually the nicest guy who knows where to go to have fun (that is why the other guys follow). So it is not all about being Big and Mean. Since you will Never be Big Enough to make Mean work for you, I would suggest you give all that up now. Fighting will just get you hurt or thrown in jail or some Institution.

Oh, and this is an Anger Management Page, where people come to learn how NOT to be Angry. You seem to be here in order to compare Notes with other Angry People – to get Tips. How to be Successfully Angry. This is not what we do here. The Worst Thing you can do is focus on ways to Justify your Anger. Yes, we have reasons for our Anger, but we have much better reasons for Staying Calm despite all the provocations. I don’t have first hand knowledge concerning the ordinary state of mind of an autistic person, and so I don’t know whether you understand or not that Being Calm is a better Feeling than Being Angry.

I would write more to you, but I am not sure of your attitude in being here and would not wish to be wasting my time. Try reading the last 5 or 6 Threads and see what the discussions are and whether you could enjoy going to that direction. After that, if you are interested, then, please, ask me anything you like, or of course the other Regular Helping Members here.
User avatar
Leo Volont
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:26 am
Likes Received: 132

#3

Postby Candid » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:53 am

Cleveland1988 wrote:I'd like to find more people who are angry because they've been ostracized, shunned, and "othered" their whole lives like I have.


Ostracism and shunning from your family of origin would leave you very angry and with severe relational difficulties. You will find plenty of people in the same predicament on http://cptsd.org/forum/index.php.
User avatar
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 7734
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Location: Reading, England
Likes Received: 289

#4

Postby Cleveland1988 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:06 am

Leo Volont wrote:
Hi Cleveland,

The way I understand what you have written is that you seem only to have a problem with Anger because you lose all your fights, and that you would be so much more okay with it if you were the Big Bully pushing his weight around. Now, yes, of course, in Male Dominated Social Groups there can be a lot of Dominance Behavior – assertions of Leadership and Territory Ownership. But studies have also shown that Egalitarianism is also a Powerful Force in Male Groups, and often the Effective Leader (the Guy that everyone actually follows around) is actually the nicest guy who knows where to go to have fun (that is why the other guys follow). So it is not all about being Big and Mean. Since you will Never be Big Enough to make Mean work for you, I would suggest you give all that up now. Fighting will just get you hurt or thrown in jail or some Institution.

Oh, and this is an Anger Management Page, where people come to learn how NOT to be Angry. You seem to be here in order to compare Notes with other Angry People – to get Tips. How to be Successfully Angry. This is not what we do here. The Worst Thing you can do is focus on ways to Justify your Anger. Yes, we have reasons for our Anger, but we have much better reasons for Staying Calm despite all the provocations. I don’t have first hand knowledge concerning the ordinary state of mind of an autistic person, and so I don’t know whether you understand or not that Being Calm is a better Feeling than Being Angry.

I would write more to you, but I am not sure of your attitude in being here and would not wish to be wasting my time. Try reading the last 5 or 6 Threads and see what the discussions are and whether you could enjoy going to that direction. After that, if you are interested, then, please, ask me anything you like, or of course the other Regular Helping Members here.


Imagine thinking "not getting your donkey kicked" is the same as "being a big bully pushing all your weight around".

There would literally be NOTHING WRONG with having a group of friends physically restrain the dude who's attacking me and either calm him down or have him arrested so he can be safe from harming himself and others with his violence.

Also, surviving a physical confrontation is about SURVIVING and not being "big and mean". You really have a lot to learn about life in volatile neighborhoods such as mine.
Cleveland1988
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
Likes Received: 0

#5

Postby Cleveland1988 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:13 am

Replies such as yours are what I've been getting for YEARS as I try to get help. I'm so sick of these tired old replies.
Cleveland1988
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
Likes Received: 0

#6

Postby Cleveland1988 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:18 am

Cleveland1988 wrote:Replies such as yours are what I've been getting for YEARS as I try to get help. I'm so sick of these tired old replies.


Also you realize there's more than just "big bullys pushing their weight around" and people who get their butt kicked, right?

You realize that you can defend yourself without being a "big bully".

One way is to remove yourself from the situation, but sometimes the attacker takes flight after you after which defending yourself physically becomes the only option.

If my grandmother defends herself from a teenage attacker with a can of mace, is my grandma a "big bully" now?
Cleveland1988
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
Likes Received: 0

#7

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:35 am

Hi Cleveland,

Now why is it that you think that so many people are giving you the same advice as I am? Now, yes, of course, I do not know you, and your situation may be entirely beyond anything I can imagine; however, it just seems like you are finding ways of justifying your Anger and you are looking at excuses for Aggression. You can't really be blaming your neighborhood. You told us that you have the same problem in Small Towns as you do in the Inner City. Somebody is always there to push you around. Do you think everyone has your problem? I'm not Big. and I was in the Army before I got my college education, and so I was with the Grunts. I got along.

Maybe there is something about your Autism. If you are perceived as 'weird' then we could suppose that harsh behavior is simply a way to ostracize you. But often in Groups of Males there is a kind of Rite of Initiation, whereby you have to Stand and Hold Your Own against the Group. Yes, it often involves Fighting, but Fighting to BELONG -- Fighting For Your Place. Did you ever see the Movie "The Karate Kid". There they get it ALL WRONG. The Kid fights AGAINST the Group that probably would have accepted him if he had only tried to fight his way into the Group. Oh, and YOU DON'T HAVE TO WIN! When I was in the Army I learned that If You Win, then there is always another Fight, because your Group Statis is not settled until you Lose one. You only have to make a good showing ... somehow lose with class. It really takes some Social Skills and good People Instincts. But I have heard that people with autism are a bit challenged in that regards. If such is the case, than you should probably apply yourself to your studies and aim at being something of a Expert Nerd Hermit -- basically live and work alone. Or you will have to finally accept what apparently everyone has been telling you and learn how to "get along with other people". Oh!? Have you EVER been able to get along with people? Did you have issues in School, or even Pre-school with getting along with the other children? You may be holding onto what has been your lifelong pattern.

So anyway, let's clarify your position... your orientation in regards to these Male Groups? Are Fighting Against them, or Fighting to Belong? Now, of course, I may be mistaken, but I get this hostile "Me Against the World" Vibe from you. You're not so much looking for friends as wanting to somehow defeat your enemies... and you are looking for us or some support group to cheer you on, is that it? I honestly hope I'm wrong about you. Hmmmm, I was just thinking that if there were A Lot of People like you, I could write a Book that could tell you all exactly what you wanted to hear, and I could go on Book Tours and offer Weekend Seminars where I could reinforce everything you already believe. I could be a Big Success. But its a shame I'm intellectually honest. But look around. I am sure someone would be eager to take your money.
User avatar
Leo Volont
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:26 am
Likes Received: 132

#8

Postby Cleveland1988 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:36 am

Leo Volont wrote:Hi Cleveland,

Now why is it that you think that so many people are giving you the same advice as I am?
.......

(From my original OP post): "Usually everyone's response is something that does not apply to the situation and, usually, they would not make that reponse to me if I had typed in more details."

Keep that in mind.

Even if I type a 50 page BOOK, there's going to be details that I leave out.

Everything you're saying is likely thing that you wouldn't say if I described my ENTIRE situation.

Which would take, like, 300,000 pages.
Cleveland1988
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
Likes Received: 0

#9

Postby quietvoice » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:17 am

Cleveland1988 wrote:Not sure where to go from here but I have a feeling I'll need to retype this sometime with pages of details that I left out.

Usually everyone's response is something that does not apply to the situation and, usually, they would not make that response to me if I had typed in more details.

If, in giving others the briefest scenario relative to the full picture, and getting responses of similar type from different venues,

then coming over here and continuing to give your brief scenario without the full and extensive details, and receiving the type of responses that are deemed to be unworthy still

. . . how did you expect something different to happen when doing the same thing?

Usually everyone's response is . . .

What unusual responses have you found to be of value to you?
User avatar
quietvoice
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2067
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm
Likes Received: 207

#10

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:28 am

Cleveland1988 wrote:
Leo Volont wrote:Hi Cleveland,

Now why is it that you think that so many people are giving you the same advice as I am?
.......

(From my original OP post): "Usually everyone's response is something that does not apply to the situation and, usually, they would not make that reponse to me if I had typed in more details."

Keep that in mind.

Even if I type a 50 page BOOK, there's going to be details that I leave out.

Everything you're saying is likely thing that you wouldn't say if I described my ENTIRE situation.

Which would take, like, 300,000 pages.


Hi Cleveland,

"War and Peace" was only a 1000 pages. I suppose you think you are 300 times more complex than Leo Tolstoy. If you ARE then maybe you should write a book. It would keep you off the streets, where apparently you have a difficult time of it. But here I am not asking for a Book, but maybe writing a chapter wouldn't kill you. Just tell us all about how you are spoiling for a fight and proud of it. Or explain why I am so far off base in suggesting it. If you can't explain yourself to others, then you don't understand yourself very well, do you? But Thinking and Discernment take Practice just like everything else. Maybe when you finally explain yourself accurately and with discernment, you will realize that it doesn't sound quite as heroic and noble as you at first believed.
User avatar
Leo Volont
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:26 am
Likes Received: 132

#11

Postby Candid » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:52 pm

maybe you should write a book. It would keep you off the streets, where apparently you have a difficult time of it...
... made me laugh. I do think you're missing Cleveland's point, though.
User avatar
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 7734
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Location: Reading, England
Likes Received: 289

#12

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:08 am

Candid wrote:
maybe you should write a book. It would keep you off the streets, where apparently you have a difficult time of it...
... made me laugh. I do think you're missing Cleveland's point, though.


Hi Candid,

Yes, I agree with you. I really don't feel as though I have a solid grip on Cleveland either. So I am glad there are so many members here who can fill in all the blanks. Especially you, in this particular case. You know how AGAINST being assertive I am (at least in Anger Management Principle. Being Assertive is dangerous risk for those with a very light Anger Trigger -- like a Reformed Alcoholic taking a job as a Wine Taster). So if Cleveland must absolutely positively insist upon pursuing the Assertiveness Angle ("I'm a Man, ain't I? If you cut me, don't I bleed? (... let's find out!) I demand RESPECT! .... as Roberta Flack used to Spell It Out --" R E S P E C T Find out what it means to Me... Sock it To Me Sock it To Me Sock it to Me..". Yeah, maybe Cleveland speaks Motown... oh wait, that's Detroit, isn't it? But, yeah, I have a feeling that Cleveland at least really knows what "Sock It To Me" means.)... then you are probably the Better Candidate for talking him through his issues.
User avatar
Leo Volont
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:26 am
Likes Received: 132

#13

Postby Candid » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:52 am

He ignored my post #3 so I'm not bothered.
User avatar
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 7734
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Location: Reading, England
Likes Received: 289

#14

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:58 pm

Candid wrote:He ignored my post #3 so I'm not bothered.


Oh! .... Hi Candid.... Thanks for mentioning that. Do you notice something about him ignoring you but engaging with me. He had nothing to fight with you about and so you were invisible to him. but I was somebody who he could fight with. He complains about hostility, but that is the only thing he looks for in Life... apparently.

Or maybe you used too many big words.... ("thems educated people think they're so smart!")
User avatar
Leo Volont
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:26 am
Likes Received: 132


Next

Return to Anger Management