CBD for THC Withdrawal / PAWS

Postby Foggy Noggin » Wed May 09, 2018 3:27 am

I am lucky enough to be living in the Great NorthWest and was able to give some CBD products a try to help me deal with the myriad symptoms of PAWS when abstaining from MJ / THC.

First, I tried a VAPE PEN that is 51% CBD and 0% THC. The effects were profound and immediate. I felt a wave of relaxation wash over me as the ever present sense of dread seemed to just evaporate. It greatly reduced my feelings of depression and anxiety and gave me a bit of focus that seemed to be missing.

Next I tried a special strain of flower called Ringo's Gift. It's 17.8% CBD and .58% THC (a little more than half a percent). Again, the effects were instant relief from the PAWS symptoms I've been dealing with for a couple months now.

Like a lot of you, I've spent many years smoking very high THC content MJ. I actually sought out strains that had low or no CBD so the effects of the THC wouldn't be diminished, as CBD can counteract the production of Dopamine.

I don't want to spam or copy and paste a bunch of info here, but google CBD and learn the specifics behind the brain chemistry, it's really fascinating stuff!

In some ways it kinda feels like I am 'cheating' and / or trading one substance for another. But at the same time, the withdrawal effects I am dealing with are from THC withdrawal, and my brain needs to learn to produce it's own Dopamine again, which is the underlying cause of the PAWS. While using CBD, my brain can deal with the effects of the depression and anxiety much easier while my brain heals from the 30 years of THC abuse.

I've tried Zoloft in the past and it gave me a bit of brain fog and would help my depression but wouldn't do much for my anxiety. If CBD can keep me from using SSRI's or SNRI's, I think that is a good thing. I don't know what my long term plans are for CBD, but for now it is doing a great job at helping me feel better about my life, and I do not have any craving for trying anything with any active amount of THC in it. THC often causes anxiety, both with it's use and from it's withdrawal, and CBD counteracts that.

Here's a link to a similar topic here: www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=92914
Foggy Noggin
Junior Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Likes Received: 24


#1

Postby exstonerinhell » Wed May 09, 2018 12:54 pm

Got a few questions for you, as someone suffering pretty badly from PAWS induced depression.

The effects were profound and immediate. I felt a wave of relaxation wash over me as the ever present sense of dread seemed to just evaporate. It greatly reduced my feelings of depression and anxiety and gave me a bit of focus that seemed to be missing.


How long did this last? Did your PAWS symptoms return gradually, or with a bang?

Again, the effects were instant relief from the PAWS symptoms I've been dealing with for a couple months now.


When you say 'relief' what exactly do you mean by that? Sorry, I know that's a strange questions and it's hard to describe this stuff, but PAWS is killing me and any relief short of going on psych meds (which I don't think will bring me any relief, but they're being pushed on me HARD by my psychiatrist) is of great interest to me.

I don't know what my long term plans are for CBD, but for now it is doing a great job at helping me feel better about my life, and I do not have any craving for trying anything with any active amount of THC in it.


I'd be super curious to try it but if it doesn't work I'm really afraid of setting myself back in terms of PAWS if I try it and it doesn't work out. I know you can't really speak to that one way or the other, but I'm curious as to your view on your brain truly 'healing' while consuming high CBD?

Anyway, thanks for the info, you've giving me something to think about.
exstonerinhell
Full Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:24 pm
Likes Received: 77

#2

Postby Foggy Noggin » Thu May 10, 2018 3:47 am

Hey exstonerinhell,

First off, I've read some of your posts and can relate to a lot of what you are going through. this PAWS caught me off guard after feeling pretty good for a couple months off weed, and I am so glad I found this forum with members like yourself, so thank you.

To answer your questions:

The relief I felt lasted several hours. The arc of the effect is similar to smoking THC, you get a full effect within 5-10 minutes and then it lasts maybe an hour or two depending on how much you inhale/smoke.

It actually feels a bit like smoking MJ with THC, but it's like a 'clean' high feeling with no real mental effects. It kinda feels like it gets to certain parts of your brain but does not effect the prefrontal cortex like THC. There's relaxation, peace of mind, and a sense of well-being (a mild euphoric feeling from the anandamide). It will also make you a bit sleepy at first.

And I find I don't 'chase' the high like I did with THC. Once I smoke a bowl, I relax and am able to leave it. Currently, I smoke in the morning when my anxiety is at it's worst. Then I'll smoke another bowl at some point during the evening, sometimes when I get home, sometimes later.

I have to be conscientious of not flooding my brain with constant anandamide, as I'm not sure what withdrawal from that would look or feel like, and I don't want to find out. But, for now, I think CBD to combat THC withdrawal is something folks should consider.

What I find most useful is how it seems to make my anxiety and depression go away and not cause any buzzy head high that results in cloudy thinking. My cognitive ability has improved since being on CBD, which could be simply a result of the relief from anxiety and depression, but anandamine is also supposed to help with cognitive dysfunction.

I would recommend reading up on the difference between THC and CBD and how differently they act on the receptors in your brain. Although they both make you 'feel good' they do it in a completely different way.
Foggy Noggin
Junior Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Likes Received: 24

#3

Postby exstonerinhell » Thu May 10, 2018 6:15 pm

Thanks for all the info, I may have to swing by a dispensary and pick some up and give it a try. Perhaps I'll set myself back some, but when things are bad I'm willing to try just about anything.

If I do, I'll report back to this thread and log my own personal experience.

I suppose this is a 'go with your gut thing' but I know that NateTGreat (a previous success story after a LONG recovery) had tried CBD (from hemp) and was disappointed. But he was trying oil and I'm not sure if he was vaping it or what, so I can't really speak on it.

viewtopic.php?t=91416&p=879311#p879311

Anyway, just another view-point.
exstonerinhell
Full Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:24 pm
Likes Received: 77

#4

Postby Cali-Detroit » Thu May 10, 2018 9:12 pm

Hey Foggy,

I'm in California, so I feel you on having access to the medicinal side of things, such as CBD. But can we real talk for a minute here?

Your shitting yourself, plain and simple. Your still using weed, just an extracted component of it. And most importantly, your still doing the ritual. I believe in the medical benefits for truly sick people, but come on, you're dealing with the same sh** any addict does, and toking on a vape pen isn't quitting anything, no matter the THC levels. If you don't want to quit, then that's your business.

My problem is impressionable minds also visit this forum and it would be sad for them to think that using CBD to help quit weed is in any way a reasonable solution. It's not.
Cali-Detroit
Full Member
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 9:45 pm
Likes Received: 90

#5

Postby Foggy Noggin » Fri May 11, 2018 2:37 am

Cali-Detroit, I appreciate the counter argument, but respectfully disagree.

I firmly believe CBD will soon be prescribed by real doctors for anxiety and depression regardless of the cause.

I also think it is important to understand that different parts of the plant do different things to different parts of the brain. Weed PAWS is caused by THC withdrawal, plain and simple.

I do think individuals have to draw the line where it is appropriate for them. To some, like yourself, abstaining means to abstain from any part of the plant. For others, it could be not using any psychoactive chemicals at all, including prescription anti-depressants.Some here still drink, still smoke cigarettes, etc which artificially boosts dopamine levels, and, I would imagine, that can help people deal with their PAWS. I do neither of those things. I am intent on allowing my brain to reset and learn to make dopamine the natural way, which is through reward seeking behavior, something stoners have a hard time doing due to having brains on THC.

For those who are interested in CBD, but think smoking or vaping CBD could be a trigger, or as Cali-Detroit thinks, is the same as getting high on THC, I would suggest using a tincture or edible. CBD is good medicine and helps the brain heal, and my post is not the only one on this forum to suggest this.

In addition, I would suggest using CBD as one tool to combat PAWS. A good diet (with supplements), exercise, and connections to people who care about you are all very important.
Foggy Noggin
Junior Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Likes Received: 24

#6

Postby Foggy Noggin » Fri May 11, 2018 2:55 am

For anyone interested in the scientific specifics:

CBD has no effect on dopamine at all. Dopamine is released when the CB1 receptor is stimulated. The CB1 receptor is located on the cell surface. CBD exerts its effects inside the cell – not on the cell surface.

THC, however, exerts binds and activates the CB1 receptor, and when the CB1 receptor is continuously stimulated, it becomes less responsive, and less and less dopamine is released.

People who use THC on a regular basis, downgrade their dopamine levels, thus requiring greater amounts of THC to achieve the same response. This is called “drug tolerance”.

CBD works as an anxiolytic by stimulating the 5HT1A receptor which then inhibits the release of fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH). FAAH breaks down the endogenous anandamide. When anandamide, known as the “bliss” hormone does not break down, the levels increase, and one feels, well…for lack of a better term – blissful.
Foggy Noggin
Junior Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Likes Received: 24

#7

Postby Cali-Detroit » Fri May 11, 2018 3:15 am

I'm not doubting the efficacy of CBD for a myriad of different medical conditions, but I don't think we're at the point where we can definitely say this is the thing that will work for drug addiction/withdrawal symptoms. I've yet to see peer reviewed, double blind studies with control groups unequivocally say that this is a sure bet. Knowing the science and being able to prove it are two different worlds, and the fact remains, we just aren't there yet with CBD.
Now seizures? Yeah the work has been done, we know for sure, to use the most visible example. But it took time, and maybe this will play out the same way. I really hope it does, honestly, but puffing a pen is just way too habitual and didn't you mention a slight thc content in one of your carts? And who is making these anyway? With no oversight and no regulation, anything goes.

But, hey, you do you bro. If that's the thing for you, great. I'm still confused as to why your recommending this to others knowing (or maybe not) full well that the absolute truth is yet to be known.

Let's be real and just say "look we have to stop and that's that" and just suffer through it. I think the pain is part of the process and to try and avoid that at all costs is natural. The last time I "quit" I started popping a Percocet a night for the next month or two until I ran out. And yes, people smoke cigarettes, or drink or eat themselves into a sugar coma or whatever... addiction is in our nature.

I guess the main point is to stop and stay that way, which seems to be a massive effort for all those who make the attempt. But I truly do wish you luck, and hope it works for you, whatever your method. Take care
Cali-Detroit
Full Member
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 9:45 pm
Likes Received: 90

#8

Postby Foggy Noggin » Fri May 11, 2018 4:13 am

The products I am using are tested by state-certified labs, which is, by definition, oversight and regulation. One product has an insignificant amount of THC by percentage. The CBD actually works to counteract the effects of the THC making the insignificant amount even more insignificant.

Yes, there is still lots to learn about CBD, but that doesn't mean we don't know anything. In fact, in the last 20 years, we've learned quite a bit. I think 'absolute truth' is a pretty high bar for trying new things, no pun intended. I realize it's pretty common for people who *loved* the weed to now *hate* the weed, and if that helps them abstain, great, but I think one should be a little more nuanced than that.

People should decide for themselves based on available data. I'll be 3 months free of THC next week and have a new found optimism regarding my PAWS recovery. I wish everyone the best, whichever path they choose.
Foggy Noggin
Junior Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Likes Received: 24

#9

Postby exstonerinhell » Fri May 11, 2018 6:47 pm

I ended up not going to the dispensary to pick any CBD stuff up. That's not to say in the future I won't but I do want to get away from weed in all its forms and becoming reliant on CBD might just make things tougher for me.

Of course, I might just be shooting myself in the foot because this PAWS sh** SUCKS, but only way to the other side is through. I do appreciate the discussion though!
exstonerinhell
Full Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:24 pm
Likes Received: 77

#10

Postby Cali-Detroit » Fri May 11, 2018 10:21 pm

Good call, exstoney. I'm sure some people can work with CBD and be just fine. But I'd bet good money those people aren't long term heads and haven't really locked themselves up in a way that decades of abuse does. Not to disrespect anyone's personal journey, but there are gradations to this habit and also the fact that it simply affects us all differently.

The pain and anguish is the worst, for sure. I had some very dark moments just last night, and was seriously thinking maybe having a gun in the house is a bad idea. I'm fine now, but it gets real in the later hours for me. Today is good though. Taking pleasure in the very simplest of things was advised to me , and it's solid.

I'm a fan of the suffering part to be honest, but maybe that's just the masochist in me :? It's strengthens the will and builds character in my experience. I've spent a whole lifetime avoiding discomfort, but the truth is the only real growth and success came out of adversity.
Why should this be any different?

Stay up, you're doing great. Take care
Cali-Detroit
Full Member
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 9:45 pm
Likes Received: 90

#11

Postby Bagobones » Fri May 11, 2018 11:02 pm

I got some Charlottes Web CBD oil from Colorado as a gift during my bad time after quitting. I got the same feeling that Cali and exstoney did. I was done with the green plant. I did not want to use more drugs. I would rather take the punishment I had caused myself...

I tried it once out of curiosity. I quit my VERY overkill coffee habbit. That made me get some really bad headaches. CBD is the best Ive tried for killing headaches.. So during those days I was going to visit a friend overseas that has migrene and a lousy health care system in her country. So I gave it to her as a gift. She still to this day loves me for that gift. She treat it like a magical oil. hehe. Finally she can sleep at night during migrene times... :) 27 years of pain and she found some reliefe.. hehe

So I do believe in CBD. ALOT! But for ex stoners in general, I think we have had enough of "medicine"... We are after "being ourself" now. No more drugs please! At least thats how I am feeling about it.
Bagobones
Full Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:14 pm
Likes Received: 140

#12

Postby Bagobones » Fri May 11, 2018 11:12 pm

Cali-Detroit wrote:The pain and anguish is the worst, for sure. I had some very dark moments just last night, and was seriously thinking maybe having a gun in the house is a bad idea.


I am sure it would not hurt to let someone responsable and legal for it, take care of your gun for the next 6 months.. You know what they say about guns and mental health problems.. hehe.. And its the head we are struggling with after quitting weed. And for someone who has been so deep into the deep end of the weed culture, raging is pretty common during the withdrawal and PAWS...

Just a little friendly suggestion.. :D
Bagobones
Full Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:14 pm
Likes Received: 140

#13

Postby Cali-Detroit » Fri May 11, 2018 11:53 pm

No doubt, I'm already on it. Not that I think it would ever be an issue. Of course, neither did other folks...until it was. Thanks for looking out
Cali-Detroit
Full Member
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 9:45 pm
Likes Received: 90

#14

Postby Foggy Noggin » Sat May 12, 2018 2:28 am

I respect the positions and decisions of everyone who has contributed to this thread.

CBD, especially smoking or vaping, may not be for everyone. But, as I alluded to earlier, it's a personal choice where to draw the line of abstinence.

Some folks are giving up everything during their detox, including coffee or sugar or processed foods. Some folks are adamant against SSRI's or SNRI's as a way to address their depression or anxiety. Some people might continue to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol during their PAWS, as, for some, it is simply about quitting weed. And for some its cold turkey / all or nothing, while for others tapering off is most effective. Addiction is nothing if not personal.

For me, it's about withdrawing from THC, and not doing anything artificial to increase Dopamine production. For what it's worth, I get the suffering ethos, I really do. I think there is some merit to that. Life isn't meant to be *too* easy. And CBD isn't a silver bullet or magic potion, it's just one tool in the toolbox. I still have PAWS and I am still recovering.

I think smoking VERY HIGH THC and low or no CBD strains of marijuana is part of the reason PAWS is so hard to recover from.

I hope people will continue to post their thoughts about or experiences with CBD. For me, it is just as effective as prescription anti-depressants and a better choice for cognitive dysfunction and anxiety.
Foggy Noggin
Junior Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Likes Received: 24


Next

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Addictions

cron