How fight this?

Postby Guess what? » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:14 pm

Yesterday I was talking with a woman about when I' drunk, get mad and have bad behaviors; and I was so sorry with who received this version of me.
She said the solution was less drinking, obviously; but now I'm thinking about it.
Except that i can't even talk with confidence if I don't drink "much", but I was thinking that probably I have bad behaviors not when I'm drunk; but when I'm angry.
And when I'm drunk I'm angry; i don't know if this is repressed anger, but it is so. I remember that I did or said bad things (maybe not with the the direct interested) and I don't know if this is so shamefull or gives me a position.

I know it is normal that people have not a really good response when they are in a bad mood, but many times this my way of doing keeps many peoples away from me, and I don't wanna this.

Any tips?
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#1

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:33 pm

Guess what? wrote:Yesterday I was talking with a woman about when I' drunk, get mad and have bad behaviors; and I was so sorry with who received this version of me.
She said the solution was less drinking, obviously; but now I'm thinking about it.
Except that i can't even talk with confidence if I don't drink "much", but I was thinking that probably I have bad behaviors not when I'm drunk; but when I'm angry.
And when I'm drunk I'm angry; i don't know if this is repressed anger, but it is so. I remember that I did or said bad things (maybe not with the the direct interested) and I don't know if this is so shamefull or gives me a position.

I know it is normal that people have not a really good response when they are in a bad mood, but many times this my way of doing keeps many peoples away from me, and I don't wanna this.

Any tips?


Hi Guess What,

Well, from what you say you have a low grade Anger issue, which could be classified as just baseline irritability. Some people are happy and cheerful, that is, they are baseline ‘happy’… even when such people are clinically depressed, they still come off socially as cheerful – they are ‘cheerful’ people with low motivation, lack of energy, and the other symptoms of depression… a except that they look happy. Of course, with irritable people it is far easier to discern when they have a problem, but often that looks like they have a problem ‘all the time’, even when life is going relatively well for them. I have read studies that say that one’s ‘baseline’ is not entirely deterministic, that one can learn how to move up on the happiness scale if one adopts better habits in one’s thinking, that is, how one evaluates the day by day occurrences in one’s life.

So, yes, while I am generally happy, it is still possible for me to get irritable. But I have found that irritability can be controlled. Much of irritability is caused by internal emotions and the internal emotions are mostly guided by whatever your internal dialogue happens to be. You have to be able to monitor your thoughts and determine when you are just kind of bumming yourself out for no good reason. It is part of what the psychologists call ‘Cognitive Behavioral Therapy’. In order to be happy and socially well-adjusted you simply have to monitor your thinking and replace bad thinking with good thinking. It is difficult at first because nearly all of your thinking comes in conditioned patterns – stuff that you have been habitually thinking ever since you were a little kid. You really have to take a fresh look at all the crap that goes through your head. And then you need to have a good imagination for thinking up what you ought to be thinking instead, because, it is not just enough to just shut down the bad but you need to replace it with something better. Only the great Spiritual Masters can stop thinking and go totally blank (and what great fun at a party that would be, huh!?), but for the common herd of humanity, the situations of life prompt us to think, but in large part we can choose what we do allow ourselves to finally conclude. But, yes, new thoughts will seem phony and unnatural to you at first. So you practice, practice, practice, like the little six year old Mozart on his violin. After a year or two (yes, Anger Management is not just about your first major attitude change but requires a great deal of subsequent work and practice, practice, practice).

Also, you might notice that some behaviors are entirely habitual, that is, you will sometimes just do things without even thinking about it first. We can sort of think of this in terms of the body having its own ‘mind’, or the tongue having its own ‘mind’. It is why comedians get in trouble all the time because their tongues are conditioned to just say ‘funny stuff’ the very instant that the situation suggests it. It is sort of a failure of impulse control. And, really, the only way to develop impulse control is to review all of your behaviors, just as you should review all of your internal dialogue, and break the habits of conditioning that you find consistently getting you into trouble. For a comedian it would be enough to pause before they speak, which can be funny in itself if they use the right funny face to show the agony of their thoughts, but, yes, that would give them time to greatly modify any punch line that could potentially wreak havoc on their careers.

And, as with your thoughts, also with your behaviors, you have to replace the bad with something you think better. This is the revise phase. So that is the basics of Cognitive Behavior Therapy – you simply review and revise your life until you have something good going for yourself.

Oh, and in your case, you should minimize your drinking and your social exposure until you have a good handle on the New You. And that might take a while.

Let me know if any of this makes sense to you and whether you want any more of my advice. I would gladly be more helpful, but if you look at the last few inquiries, well, I spent hours writing detailed plans for these people who asked for opinions, and they simply went on with their lives… probably finding comfort in their smart phones. So, yes, I have more, but you will need to ask for it.
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#2

Postby Mustafa » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:14 am

Everyone don't mind this post:

Leo i can't send PM. You sound like a boring drearlingly long Professor. Hahaha I don't know if that's a good thing. Before, due to Cortisol and zero sized amygdala i was cheerfully defiantly boring, i was alone and neither did i consider it a problem. Now, after over 10 years treatment i've started to do the jaw-trick subconciously. I think i'm still boring, they say Aspergers/autism has dry/dark humor.

To thread opener i don't know how to benefit you, you are vague and i know you can't help it, and i can't because i have drunk ... close to Zero times. No more than 1 time, and i didn't do by my free will.
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#3

Postby Guess what? » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 am

Hi Leo.
I see what you are saying, but isn't taking my anger off dangerous?
Like repressed anger that can become passive agressivity?
I can control my drinking, but being alone will destroy me.
Mostly, when everyone have drunk and have fun while i'm timid and can't say anything is the biggest problem. So i drink.
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#4

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:35 pm

Guess what? wrote:Hi Leo.
I see what you are saying, but isn't taking my anger off dangerous?
Like repressed anger that can become passive agressivity?
I can control my drinking, but being alone will destroy me.
Mostly, when everyone have drunk and have fun while i'm timid and can't say anything is the biggest problem. So i drink.


Hi Guess What,

Good! Finally. Thank you, Guess What… you were instrumental in breaking this ‘batting slump’ I was in where people were writing in and not even answering. Now, yes, mostly I do these responses as an exercise in keeping my head in Anger Management, but, still, one enjoys a little human contact once in a while.

Now, down to business. My God No! that somehow not being irritable and obnoxious will somehow cause all that pent-up spite and bitterness to poison your blond and rush you into an early grave. You must know some really sweet nice people. Well, do they really look so bottled up and ready to explode… or do they look nice and sweet? The idea that it is necessary to express our every negative impulse is exactly opposite to the truth of the matter. If I would have had time to write you my usual book, I would have told you that nearly everybody is either in denial about their anger, or they justify it, in the sense that they wish to believe that they are always angry for perfectly good reasons. And apparently you have heard it said a great many times that “blowing off steam” is healthy. Well, it’s not. You see, when one gets angry enough to get worked up, that sets the Cortisol to flowing, and, well, cortisol is intended to be for emergencies only – natures ‘panic button’. The problem with cortisol is that the more the brain gland that produces the cortisol is pressed into production, the more prone it is to produce even more (and the brain pathways from other brain areas that would help to inhibit the Cortisol Gland weaken and atrophy). The brain gets the message, from repeated bouts of anger, that one lives in a super dangerous highly threatening environment, and the body adapts by being constantly on edge… always under stress… nervous and jumpy all the time (and that kills you young from heart disease and hypertension). Anyway, by intentionally triggering cortisol in order to “let off steam” you are actually just sort of ‘pouring gasoline on the fire’. Now, if you are already baseline irritable, it means that your brain is already overly active with cortisol. To get back to normal, you have to consciously relax and chill out. One trick for this, which you won’t read about anywhere, is to control your cortisol releases by monitoring the very first sign that cortisol is being released. That gland is near the brains stem and the muscle group that is closest to that gland is your jaw muscles. You know, when the body feels threatened (or you feel offended or insulted) the cortisol gland begins pumping immediately, so quickly in fact that it is ahead of even your own conscious mind’s realization that you are supposed to be pissed off. And one of the first things that the Cortisol does (how it effects the rest of the brain) is it starts shutting down your brains higher thinking functions, which is why it is nearly impossible to control your anger after you are already angry – cortisol makes you literally ‘lose your mind’ (especially in regards to Rage, but you are only irritable, thank God, but you are in the same continuum.). So, the jaw muscles will tighten up two or three seconds before your mind begins to shut down and you go all berserk. IF you can relax your jaw muscles in the very moment that they tighten up, then that in effect tells that cortisol gland that it was only just a ‘false alarm’. Just think of Primitive Man in the jungle where false alarms must have happened all the time. They must have learned about the relaxation response I am now telling you about or living in the jungle would have been simply too stressful. So, anyway, you need less stress, not more. If you feel your mouth close or your teeth clench or anything like that, then simply start breathing through your mouth and realize that something just triggered you… pushed a button. And then you have to deal with that.

Most of the time when we are ‘triggered’, it is over something that is not worth worrying about. Grouches like you need to chill out, right? So do that Review and Revise stuff (see my first reply to you) whenever anything pushes one of your buttons. Your motto now is ‘live and let live’, or ‘everyone makes mistakes’, or ‘a lot of people like food that’s burned and over salted’ or whatever it takes at the moment in order to not descend into your usual grouchy attitude.

But, yes, Guess What, maybe you should read a few good Anger Management books. My favorite author is Ronald Potter-Efron, a PHD. He’s written a lot of books on Anger Management… even college text books. Stay away from the silly New Age books, the ones that explain how anger is actually good for us and that if we don’t flip out and kill people once in awhile it is bad for our health (you see, those New Age people are in denial – they think they are automatically perfect because the Universe loves them so much, and so that if anything bad ever happens, well, then they simply have to explain it away and make excuses for it, and that is how they deal with Anger Management). Anyway, Ronald Potter-Efron’s books are available on line. And reading anger management books is perhaps the easiest way to have an Anger Management activity every day. If you work for a living, for safety’s sake you should read a chapter every morning in order to give yourself the right mindset to keep you from being grouchy at work. Then, before socializing in the evening you should read a bit also, in order to remind yourself to be civilized with friends and family. Really, it will take six months of daily anger management activities before you realize any significant degree of change in the way you typically think and behave… before you are perceptibly a better person. But it is well worth the effort.

Let me know what you think, Guess What. And thanks again for writing back.
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#5

Postby Guess what? » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:49 pm

Not "thanks for writing back".
I'm here for facing my problems. Sure I should go to a real terapist, but money, time, shame, etc, don't let me go for it.

But enough talk about poppycock.
Sure every people take their anger inside thinking that they are doing the right thing, for then exploding this anger o talking on the back of others. This is not nice.
Then, I practice mewing, I have my jaw muscles tighten up every seconds.

Sure I will check for Potter's books. I'm just tired of being submissive, for then throwing up all of my frustration when I'm at my limit, or when I'm drunk.
I will read this, i just hope it will not make me a sort of passive and weak dude, ahah, just joking.

My "friends" aren't really the good kind of people, but they are not evil.
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#6

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Good Morning, Guess What,

Well, I know a place where we can start with you. First, you should try not to be so gruff and impatient with people. Do you see in my previous response where I made small talk and used polite words like ‘thank you for writing back’. Well, that was me trying to encourage openness and a sense of new comradship. It was only a few sentences and it was not overplayed. But apparently it did not appeal to you. Maybe it looked too submissive to you, and you would rather be talking with some gruff hard nose guy (like guess who, but what would such a person be doing giving advice on an Anger Management Forum?). But then you go so far as to throw it in my face… to complain about it, even in humor, but, still, your impatience and irritability show through. Well, what was your intended message there? How was that supposed to help?

So, yes, one thing concerns me now about you. Usually when people ‘write in’ they have already had some kind of scare or crisis that has given them at least a temporary attitude change, where they are afraid of their own anger and they are on tip toes for a while. This is a good phase which we can use to get them into the work that they must begin doing. You see, this attitude gives them motivation for a while. But, you, Guess What, seem to be dragging your feet… you’re still on the fence.

Also, we have already spoken about how ‘you can change for the better ’, but now we should think about ‘changing into what’. You already mentioned that you do not want to change into something that is ‘weak and submissive’. Well, this is perhaps indicative of a problem. It seems that you are still idealizing your present personality. You are apparently direct, you don’t mince words, and are not afraid to tell people what you think no matter who they are or how they might take it, or whether they should even care what you think (or may simply wonder why you seem to be so full of yourself). Your World view is self-centered, but in a self-destructive way. You somehow assume that other self-centered people should also make you their center, but, really, why should they? You know, a lot of people behave socially with the idea of always improving themselves in the eyes of others. They don’t do or say anything that does not advance them in the opinions of those they are living and working with. In this way they have friends and are respected by others. Yes, this kind of social focus takes work, but these people get their alone time so that they can cater to their own needs enough to feel self-sustaining. Yes, such goal-oriented social behavior may seem phony and artificial to you, but if these people have been operating from that same ‘game plan’ for years, believe me, it all becomes quite natural. Being ‘socially centered and other-directed’ is really who they genuinely are, or have become. Their friends aren’t being fooled, and the respect paid homage to them is not in any way being misplaced.

So, yes, you need to change, but first you need to think about whom you would like to be. In today’s World it is hard to find any existing personality to emulate. Screenwriters for the movies and TV deal so often in flawed ‘real life’ characters. Mostly the screen writers resort to ‘drama’ – scenes where the actors are shouting and getting angry…’making scenes’… and all such behaviors comes to our perceptions as being ‘normalized’, instead of being perceived as appalling behavior. There is no narrative that accompanies our movies and tv shows telling us what is good or bad, and we are supposed to figure that out for ourselves. Mostly we all get it wrong. We send our children to school with the idea that they should be ‘tough guys’ or little ‘wise-cracking whores’.

Perhaps you can take up reading fine literature from the 19th Century, that is, from well more than a hundred years ago, and from British authors (America has had great American Authors but they have never had a great author of the English Language… well, maybe early Henry James and Raymond Chandler in the Detective Fiction genre). But with certain English Authors of the 19th Century there were conscious and designed delineations of the Human Ideal, which we simply did not get any longer in the 20th Century. And even if a character does break the ideal for an episode, the all-knowing narrative of the book informs you of the deviation from the ideal. If you want ideal characterization, and you should, then you should read Jane Austen, or maybe Thomas Hardy from the Victorian Period would be more accessible to you.

But, yes, Guess What, in order to change enough that it matters, you are going to have to be willing to let go of your old self, and it would greatly help if you had some idea of the dimensions, colorings and shades of your New Self.

Oh, and there is nothing magical about Therapy. As soon as my therapist found out that I was educated, he simply loaded me down with books. The good thing about Therapy is that an Educated man agrees to spend 45 minutes giving you his exclusive attention. Well, that is what is happening here, isn’t it? So don’t be so ready to consider me so second rate simply because I come to you on the cheap.
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#7

Postby Guess what? » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:01 pm

Don't missunderstand me please. Mine was supposed to be a polite answer as well.
Just tried to say "no need to say thanks. I didn't anything special, and for not look hypocritical, I'm doing this for me."
English is not my main language, sorry then. I prefer to say things in a few words (try to do the same, please xD ). But many times people missunderstand me; maybe i have trouble with this, or maybe, deep down, I want to say bad things for then answering "just joking"; like a passive aggressive dude.

Also, my mood changes drastically my behaviour. Now I'm calm, tired and trying to step on a bad story (that i posted days ago in realtionship section).

now
You are apparently direct, you don’t mince words, and are not afraid to tell people what you think no matter who they are or how they might take it, or whether they should even care what you think (or may simply wonder why you seem to be so full of yourself). Your World view is self-centered, but in a self-destructive way.


Yes, it is kinda me.
I just wanna give the apparence to be a guy with whom you can talk about everything. Your problems too, if I noticed them, but it doesn't seem working.
I don't know, I want to be a guy who likes joking, that lives and let others live, respectable, good, but not weak. but I don't want that this is a sort of videogame character that i like. I did this sometimes, tracing character behaviours.

The "drama" thing makes me thinking. It's probably true. I did dramas sometimes, I opened my heart and say things with what i was feeling in that moment ('cause they asked me to do it), and on the other side I saw people that didn't care at all of what i was saying. They didn't trust me, or probably they thought i was ridicolous and worthless.
And this make my angry too. But I don't completely regret that, I did it 'cause i wanted to do it, to be honest with myself and others.

Then probably I was agree with drama 'cause my best friend loves drama too. lol
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#8

Postby Leo Volont » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:57 pm

Good Morning Guess What,

Oh, good, I am glad you told me that English is not your primary language. But there are a great many native English speakers whose versatility with English does not exceed your own, but then one wonders about their intelligence. So now I can assume that you are actually very intelligent. Oh, forgive me for using a great many words. You see, I am well read and I like language, and it is difficult to clip my own wings, so to speak. I would have to hire an editor to trim, prune and cut me down to what it is that normal people write, and I can’t afford that. So, please, try to bear with me on my verbosity.

Oh, it is good that you have an inclination for Drama. Now, in the Anger Management Sense, ‘drama’ is considered a bad thing, just as “making a scene” is considered bad and being a “drama queen” is considered bad. But just pure drama, that is, acting, can be a good thing. You simply have to find a good well socially adjusted ‘nice friendly guy’ role and play it – play the part. Act like you are not irritable and angry. Now, you know, acting, just like music, takes practice, practice, practice. The best examples of this are not from the Anger Management Literature. I have read a lot of English Literature (from Britain) and there have always been cases of common people being able to break into their High Society by simply acting the part – learning the proper boarding school ‘RP’ accent, learning all the table manners, and getting just the right cloths. It probably takes years before they get it all just right. This is the same way that you have to become a Good Person. For the first six months it will only be ‘acting’ but as it approaches a year, you will find that it becomes natural and that you can no long ‘drop the act’ and go back to being ‘yourself’. Oh, it is like with under-cover cops. If they stay ‘under’ for too long, well, it changes them. Oh, but there are the Great Actors, who can cultivate a number of convincing personas – ‘characters’.

So, yes, Guess What, you can put your acting skills to work for you. Oh, and no drinking… it gets you into trouble, and if you are acting, then being drunk will make it harder to play your role. I myself only allow myself a glass of red wine at night before I go to sleep. It is far easier to be thoughtful, courteous and discrete if one is not drunk.

Anyway, Guess What, have a nice day.
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#9

Postby Guess what? » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:02 am

Just few questions.
I don't like the word "Acting". So I have to pretend to be someone that I might be not. And in case of strong stress, won't my real "person" come out and destroy what I built?
I know world is not fair, so if I wanna to be loved, I need to go through people's tastes; just asking if i can really change or i have just to pretend. And if I'm in a bad mood, I may have not the will to go ahead with this.
A dude said me "Be good with close friends. Be indifferent (be and let it be) with others. Never be a white knights" seems a good and easy tip.
I am wondering if I am stupid to do not think about things like this.

What do you mean with "acting like a drama". Can I have examples?
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#10

Postby Leo Volont » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Guess what? wrote:Just few questions.
I don't like the word "Acting". So I have to pretend to be someone that I might be not. And in case of strong stress, won't my real "person" come out and destroy what I built?
I know world is not fair, so if I wanna to be loved, I need to go through people's tastes; just asking if i can really change or i have just to pretend. And if I'm in a bad mood, I may have not the will to go ahead with this.
A dude said me "Be good with close friends. Be indifferent (be and let it be) with others. Never be a white knights" seems a good and easy tip.
I am wondering if I am stupid to do not think about things like this.

What do you mean with "acting like a drama". Can I have examples?


Hi Guess What,

Yes, a lot of people who write into this Anger Management Forum, because the want to change, and then they object that they wish to continue on being just who they are. Well, Guess What… you can’t both change and be the same at the same time. You know, I am not asking you to become anybody you don’t wish to become. Whom you become is up to you. And, yes, I mentioned that above, somewhere, that one of the most difficult tasks is in deciding what your ‘ideal’ persona would be (certainly better than your current self but still within reach of your abilities to become such a person). But right now, Guess What, you are drunk with bad temper who is irritable even when he is sober. We ought to be able to do a lot better than that, shouldn’t we? We are not aiming that high, are we?

You know, if nobody likes you, besides your mother, then why do you like yourself so much that you are afraid of parting with yourself. You said you enjoy acting, well, now put it work for you. As I said, it will only seem like ‘acting’ (we call it ‘phony’) for the first six months, or maybe not even that long (you see, I am an amateur musician and from decades ago when I was learning my first instruments, I became accustomed to thinking that everything takes six months before you start catching on, but perhaps things can move along faster than that as long as you put in the practice time).

Now, about “strong stress”. We also went over that. Strong Stress is Cortisol. If you monitor your jaw muscles ‘come hell or high water’ and keep your teeth from clenching no matter what happens, then you will remain calm. Yes, that takes practice too. Clamping down on your teeth so that you will get a big angry Cortisol Rush is something that you should never indulge in, unless a tiger jumps out at you from the jungle and you have to fight for your life just like you were a wild animal too…. That is the only thing Cortisol is good for. Civilized people in a civilized society do not need Cortisol and the stress that comes with it. Will we be frustrated at times and sad at others? Sure. But that is no reason not to remain calm. Living a poor and miserable life needn’t be ‘stressful’. Just look around at a lot of people far worse off than you are and notice that many of them are quite calm about it.

Oh, and your friend, the ‘Dude’, didn’t really give you good advice about being indifferent to people. Yes, ‘Close friends’ are very rare, and yes it is good to treat them specially. But in each of our lives are scores of people who are not our special close friends but with whom we have dealings. They are in our social circle. We work with them. These are the people that talk behind our backs. These are the people who in closed meeting decide whether or not we get invited to this or that, or whether we get promotions at work. These are the people that new girls ask whether or not we are a nice guy or some creep. So it is crazy to be indifferent with these people. You really need to have a smile and a “good morning” for every person whom you even recognize. And it works out well. When I go out shopping, at least 20 people will smile and say “Hi Mr. Volont. How are you today?” And I am nobody special. I am actually kind of poor. But I am on ‘friendly’ terms with everybody whom I come in contact with. It simply makes good sense. Remember, it is all those ‘indifferent people’ who talk behind your back and make decisions about you that will affect your life. It is crazy not to be nice to them.

Well, I think I have answered everything for now. It is good that you are putting thought into all of this. You know, some ‘denial’ and ‘resistance’ is normal at first. Very few people charge ahead into entirely new territory without some misgivings and hesitations. But, yes, hang in there and keep with this. Right now you are just a surly irritable grouch. Your life must be miserable compared to what it could be if you were a ‘nice guy’. And if you are able to achieve this goal in your life, then it will make other endeavors easier to jump into with less hesitation as you get older. I am an old man now, and I have achieved so many things in my life, that if something new comes up, well, I don’t hesitate anymore. I have a certain faith in myself that when I work on something, then I will get better and better and better at it. So will you, Guess What. So will you.
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#11

Postby Guess what? » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:43 pm

Hi Leo Volont, then. Ahaha

Well, maybe I explain it bad. I didn't mean I'm scared to parting to myself. Just if what I do can really change me or it is just a fiction. 'Cause then I do not what to explode with my anger, my real persona, when something will be wrong.
About the cortisol thing, yes, ok, it is helpfull, but for calming yourself in that moment.
But if somebody do something that hurts me, I can control myself in that moment; but I know myself, and that thing will keep burning inside me; i will have hard feelings with that person and maybe one day I can say something wrong, involuntary, as a revenge.

I know I change the topic. I started saying that sometimes I go mad, and now we are talking about passive agressivity, but I think this is a anger concept too.
A person that I know say that she forgave me for what I done, she just put a stone over it; but yet one day, when I teased her a little bit, She answered "do you remember what you did?". Now it could be that she just wanted to say something bad, maybe she doesn't care at all, but I felt that answer like if she still hates me for that.

Ah, women.
Anyway I say goodmoring to my coworker, good lunch, and "Thanks! Bye and have a nice day!"to the girls that sell me bread.
Also, I do not want to look like a weak guy. I read about assertiveness. Stay calm but try to explain what you want. But people is not always so "polite", Asseriveness can make you "weak" in front of others eyes. So what to do?

I have to say more, but I have to go. See ya' later.
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#12

Postby Guess what? » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:06 pm

Here I am.

So, being polite do not bring to be appreciate anyway. People can just don't care about you, and ignore you to feel themself superior; if a dude don't like you i don't think a "hello" can be helpfull, instead that can even make worse the situation lol.
Or still a girl with whom i had a fight kept to talk to me, but I didn't want to and I said to her (after that HER decided to stop talking with me) that I felt annoyed for her behaviour. Long story, but if you are interested: viewtopic.php?t=107063
Greetings are not always the answer.
Taking that you say, the girl has a doing way similar to this, but sometimes she get mad too, others talk behind her back, but still seems like they like her.
Well, nowdays it's normal that people talk behind others' back, but this do not mean that they hate each other.
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#13

Postby Leo Volont » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:02 am

Good Morning Guess What,

You have some interesting questions. Yes, I understand that you are worried about losing your temper and blowing up when pushed too hard. Yes, every angry person, or person who has ever been angry, is very familiar with the avalanche of thoughts and anxieties that come with each anger episode. These dark clouds of thought can ruin at least a day, and cause a bad night’s sleep and even caste a shadow on the next day. But in large part all of those haunting thoughts depend upon us having taken some kind of an assertive and confrontational action. If we can only stay calm and handle each situation strategically and sensibly then there is far less involved that can disturb our peace of mind. Basically, if you want to retain your peace of mind then don’t reach to insults, slights, trouble outside your door, the cat knocking over your drink, etc. Stay calm and think “does this require any action on my part, and, if so, what is the best possible thing I can do turn it in my favor or to at least minimize damage”. Nearly always, doing and saying nothing is far better than doing anything else.

Also, what Anger Management books will do for you is give you some perspective on how you can eventually re-condition your mental and behavioral habits (remember Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). Guess What, you probably just think too much about stuff that really doesn’t need any thinking about. You are stuck in a mental rut. You think that this is who you are, but as soon as you pull yourself up out of that rut you are in, you will change. So, yes, get those books. Remember that author Ronal Potter-Efron. I would recommend Peter Favoro’s book “Anger Management” but apparently it went out of print and is selling very expensively, even in kindle.

Oh, Guess What, you are only hurting yourself with Assertiveness Training. That is for pushy salespeople and predatory wannabee executives – all the kind of people that everybody hates. Honestly, if you think about it, you don’t like people who are assertive, do you? Why should you? They are obviously self-centered and only thinking of themselves. Yes, I know, the truth is that we are all more self-centered than we should be (one of the things I tell people who are afraid to be humiliated and embarrassed is that nobody really cares about them anyway. On person’s mortifying humiliation is just a momentary laugh or sneer from people who will go back to thinking about only themselves five minutes later). But, remember, we are thinking about your Social Image – the way people regard you as a person. So you don’t want to SEEM self-centered. You want to be known as a good listener. Make sure you talk as much about the other person’s life, as your own. Take an interest in other people. Even on the job at work don’t be ‘assertive’ about how to do things better and improve things, because essentially nobody cares about the business, and while the Bosses claim that they want productive input from everybody, secretly they resent anybody who pretends to know more than they do… they really just want the workers to obey orders and do what they are told. So the best thing you can do career wise is to become adept at playing office politics, which is mostly just ‘make no enemies’ and get along with everybody. So, yes, Guess What, forget all that Assertiveness Training stuff – its probably either what got you into trouble in the first place, or it is symptomatic of your being an angry irritable person. I believe I mentioned before that angry people are in denial about their anger and tend to justify it, and one way they are drawn to doing that is with Assertiveness Training where ‘anger’ becomes ‘being assertive’. So, yes, being assertive is self-destructive. Remember, every time you win, there will be people who will resent you for it. Being in second and third place are socially more durable.

Oh, you were talking about women. Women can be very problematic. You remember how I told you how friendly I am. Well, that would be difficult if I was in a relationship with a woman. They become jealous of any friendly behavior towards another woman (they call it ‘flirting’) and in regards to being friendly towards men, then women become extremely judgmental – that all your friends are low-lifes or snobs or whatever – women are jealous of everybody and everything. Even your pet dog or cat will catch crap from a girl friend. They will resent your favorite hobbies because it takes you time away from them. You know, men in relationships lose themselves as their girlfriends slowly destroy everything that was interesting in their lives. So I have found it good to never get into a steady relationship whereby the woman thinks that she has any claims on me. And, yes, you are absolutely correct that women today simply do not know how to properly behave in a relationship. They say hurtful things, and they bring up the past. Really, if you are in a relationship you must insist upon the ultimatum that you will not tolerate any intentional attempt to insult yourself or to hurt your feelings. That is not what you are in the relationship for, and if things descend to that level, then you must insist that you will take an OUT. Simply pull out your smart phone and delete their number right in front of them. If they hurt you once, it is sure that they will do it again. You see, they don’t know any better (or you could get them to write to me and I’ll take a shot at fixing them for you, but, ordinarily, a woman who has no discretion in a relationship is a lost cause). Oh, when I went through my Editorial Reading and re-write of this, it occurred to me that one could deal with a relationship with a troublesome women simply by ignoring what she says, along the line of “what can I expect from a ‘chick’ anyway”. So, yes, if it is important to you to be in a “successful relationship” then I suppose you could use Cognitive Behavioral Therapy methodologies to form the right mindset to even make those things work out. But I am an old man and nobody expects me to be in a relationship, but young men are always under pressure about such things. But, honestly, I have been in many relationships, and my informed opinion is that it is better to be free, alone and unencumbered by the fairer sex.

Oh, in your second post you were speaking about the pros and cons of greeting people. You say that greeting somebody who obviously hates you is counter-productive. Well, first, if they already hate you, then you must have done something seriously wrong. See, this is where your life brought you that you have enemies to worry about. But, yes, now that you have enemies you have to learn how to deal with them. First, pretend that they are not your enemy. Smile and say “good morning” just like they are anybody else. Why? Because other people are watching. You don’t want other people to know that you have enemies. People are social animals and they observe how people behave in a crowd. You do not want to attract attention to yourself as the guy who obviously has enemies all over the place. Heck, just go to any high society cocktail party and see how everybody behaves (until they get too drunk to control themselves) – they are all friendly and everybody chitchats with everybody else. Everyone mixes and eventually gets around to having talked with everybody, and leaving anybody out would be a grave social error. Now, of course when you are chitchatting with an avowed enemy ( you both know that you hate each other) well, while still smiling, you can politely sneer at each other, but both of you are too protective of your own self-images to ‘make a scene at a party’ by any sign of hostility that can be noticed from more than 4 feet away.

But, yes, I think I have fielded all your questions from this morning. It is good that you are taking all of this seriously. Have a nice day.
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#14

Postby Guess what? » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:07 am

Good morning!
Well, don't let me talking about women. I don't wanna seem maschilist, but I know how the world is turning around.
That being said, yesterday I talked with some friends, about this girl, again. Yeah I drunk 2 cocktails, I'm not confidence without them, but maybe I did wrong talking of her once again, but so they know what I felt and my version, that of course doesn't match with hers. The one of them said that she just doesn't care about me anymore, like all girls lol. Sad humor.
Anyway I do not want to be hypocrital, I did many mistakes with her. Maybe she really has a big gain to have closed with me.

But let's skip this part.
I didn't try the Assertiveness Training yet, so I don't think it got me in trouble.

So you don’t want to SEEM self-centered. You want to be known as a good listener. Make sure you talk as much about the other person’s life, as your own.


I never saw it in this form. Effectively, I don't go through much in people life, 'Cause I don't care much. And sometimes I don't even hide this, just to seem a particolar guy who don't judge you, 'cause I'm thinking about myself. But I haven't been always like this, simply I noticed that if I don't think about myself, nobody does.
So now when I start I talk too much about my trouble, like yesterday when a friend said "but when She goes out with us, we never talk about this"; I don't know if he meant that she doesn't care anymore or just I'm annoying.
But I'm doing this 'cause many times I saw that who acts like drama queen seems to be appreciated. I don't ask never about others' life. Sure I have to start doing it.
Nearly always, doing and saying nothing is far better than doing anything else.


True.
Instead, sometimes i need to react, for when people think that they can step on me. But there are cases and cases.
People are self-centered, but being humiliated it is not always so light. Think about bullying or who become viral with some crap on youtube. Sometimes people like to hurt each other, me too maybe.
Anyway, I talked long enough to think about a doing list for changing. To be better and lovely, for me, the ones that care about me and who I care.

Stop drinking. Max 1 beer or shot, just to do not seem too asocial when everybody drink lol
Reading these books, if i can get online is better.
Stay calm, and don't being impulsive.
Forget about past, I have to use it for growing, not for being conditionated.
Trying to be more kind and stay strong, 'cause life never miss a hurting hit, and I have not to bow down. And I'm sure that sometimes i will want to give up. Just stay strong.

I don't think it will be easy. I'm really timid and i have so hard feelings; but I can try and giving my best.

Thanks pal'.
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