How fight this?

#75

Postby Leo Volont » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:42 am

Good Evening Guess What,

Oh, by the way, I am ready to start school again for an old man’s second career… I am going back to College to pick up a degree in Math. So now I only have time in the evening for checking this Page. Oh, and, yes, unfortunately people remember the worse about you. Well, you can guess that the only reason I am on this Page is that I used to have anger problem (or its been so long since I have been angry that I hope I have sufficiently vanquished it so that I can used the term “used to”). Well, my anger was moderate. I would only blow up maybe just once or at most twice a year, and yet I was still characterized as being a “hot head”, and this despite the fact that the other 364 days a year I was uniformly polite, cheerful and smiling (people must have seen that as “the calm before the storm”) . Even a little bit of anger is damaging to one’s social reputation. And that goes for people with simply ‘mild’ anger, that is people who are occasionally irritable. Being irritable once in a while doesn’t seem like much, but it circulates socially that such a person is a ‘grouch’.
Oh, Guess What, this transformation of your personality will not happen overnight. You will make a lot of mistakes. Indeed, I still ‘review’ every interaction I have with people, because there is always room for improvement. Rarely do I get any interaction to a level in which I would call entirely satisfactory. As some English poet once said “A man’s reach should exceed his grasp” and perfection, while it is the ideal we should strive for, can scarcely be hoped to be attained. Oh, but stop thinking about whether people will instantly suppose you are insincere or making fun of them. Yeah, maybe they will think that, but your new endeavor is to practice being easy going until you get the role perfectly. Even if they never truly believe it, well, it will be better than being whatever it was before that you were. And, as I said before, all of this practicing to be a more ideal person might really pay off someday if you get the chance to move out of town where you can start fresh – don’t do that now… give yourself a few years to ‘get your act together’ before you ‘take the show on the road’.
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#76

Postby quietvoice » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:36 pm

Leo Volont wrote:Oh, by the way, I am ready to start school again for an old man’s second career… I am going back to College to pick up a degree in Math.

That's awesome, Leo! I expect that you'll do extremely well in your studies.

~~~
There are 10 types of people in this world—those who know binary and those who don't.
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#77

Postby Leo Volont » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:08 pm

quietvoice wrote:
Leo Volont wrote:Oh, by the way, I am ready to start school again for an old man’s second career… I am going back to College to pick up a degree in Math.

That's awesome, Leo! I expect that you'll do extremely well in your studies.

~~~
There are 10 types of people in this world—those who know binary and those who don't.


Thank you, Quiet Voice,... "from your lips to God's ears". Yeah, I already did well enough on the Screening Test so that I could avoid several layers of remedial classes and get straight into the good stuff. But I am wondering how I will be able to do in a class environment where I have to keep up to a certain pace. As it was, I was studying at home. You see, I got downsized 4 years ago (in England they call it being made 'redundant'). They probably got rid of me because I was becoming noticeable lame -- osteoarthritis of the hips (but this year I finally got my operations -- two brand new hip joints). But back in 2014, while on my 'last legs' , I had an interview with a Professor in the Educations Department. I could have taken an Education Degree if I would have agreed to be a Civics, History or Social Studies Teacher, but I told her "no, that the world was too politically divided now (and that was before Trump) to talk about anything that close to politics... I would lose my job within six months from either one set of partisan parents or the other". So, right there, in her office I decided to be a Math Teacher, although I hadn't done any formal math in 40 years. Yes, I had written a lot of computer programs with engineering applications and so I was used to being able to figure out the math I needed, and found that kind of fun. Anyway, that day I raided the University Bookstore and made off with a bunch of College Math Textbooks which I have been going through ever since (the "Algebra and Trig" book is in tatters) . So I study and forget and go back and study some more. If it take me a while to get comfortable with something, well, I spend the time with it until I am comfortable. But now, in doing classes, I will have to learn "on a schedule". Well, Quietvoice, I do appreciate it that you have wished me luck. Oh, my Math Academic Adviser, a young woman whom I just had an interview with a few days ago, gave me hope... it seems that a lot of the Math students I will be studying with don't have much ambition for A's and that they grade on a 'curve', and so I might be able to get good grades by just not getting as much wrong as all the lazy youngsters. But, still, I am not going to College to just get through a "Gate Keeper"... I want to actually be good at it... So, yes, classes don't begin for another month and a half, but in that time I want to 'train up' to studying 8 or 10 hours a day... with a minimal amount of screwing around and taking breaks. Thanks again for your thoughts.
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#78

Postby Guess what? » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:32 pm

Good evening Leo!

Yeah, I noticed that you now replys in another part of the day (i don't know how to say).
This is why i call people jackals, it is unfair remember for the worst.. but i could see that. actually i would have good examples of people that act like this.
I can't pretend to chance in an istant... i open this thread 'cause i wanted to stop.. to delete this anger.
As i said i have been a hot head from school but I never thought that was a problem

I was sure that i was just frustrated from the fact i was alone. When i was with the girl everyone said i was finally happy.. until i ruined everything.
Probably this thread started due her, and probably if i knew you before my situation would have been better now.. well, better later than never.
Then i started to torture others with this story (nowadays still i talk about this, now just really little bit, but still talking. Yesterday a friend asked me where the girl was and i answeres that i could not know cause she not even come close to me anymore) i started to be disgusted about me.. before was just physically, then mentally too; i destroyed my own happyness, it is not normal.

After anger, seems like i have depression and anxiety trouble too. I am jealous of who is thoughtless.

Uh, good luck with the school. Why do you pick this choice now? Just to try something new? It has to be good. I have a good phrase too
"Everyone dies but not everyone lives for real"

I don't know if i made it clear xD
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#79

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:06 am

Good Morning Guess What,

Its ‘bill paying day’ and so I checked the computer before going out, and saw your post. Guess What, you have got to stop thinking so negatively about people. OF COURSE people will remember the bad about people. If people are ‘good’ then they are reliable and safe, and therefore nothing to worry about, and so why waste any mental space on them, right? BUT when people pose a problem, well, that is something to worry about…. Something to talk about… Something to remember. Its all normal and to be expected. There would be something wrong if people didn’t worry about problems, right? As I said, the solution to this problem is NOT to keep on complaining about it, but to simply stop being a problem. Don’t give people anything to talk about, worry about, or remember. When people think of you, the only thing that should come to their mind is “he’s a nice guy”, even if they can’t think of a single reason why. That is how brains work. Don’t fight it. Adapt to it.

Why a career change? The job field I was working in has changed over the years, involving more paperwork and less working autonomy. Also less respect. As we in my old field were expected to follow my set paperwork procedures more and more, the bosses figured that we wouldn’t have the brains to just do it, like we used to, and so they think that ‘a monkey who could read’ could do our jobs. And so they began treating us more like monkeys than men. It didn’t help that for many of the younger workers coming into the field, all of that was fine, and many of them couldn’t do the job unless it was spelled out in front of them. They ARE monkeys. So, really, phuque them all; I was too good for that crap. It was time for me to move on. Also, as an old man, I would like to help the next generation, and as a Math Teacher I could do that. There aren’t many Math Teachers because everybody hates math. But I knew that all I had to do was get involved in Math and after a short while it would become more of a challenge than a pain, and I would like it just fine (you see, this is me practicing what I am preaching to you). But, now, looking around at the University, well, if I live long enough, I could probably get a small income just being a Teaching Assistant (TA), you know, the Under-Professors who teach the easy 100 Level courses that don’t require the caliber of a Full Professor. Yeah, theoretically I would love to Help the Kids who are our Future, but realistically, little kids are a pain in the nether regions. The higher up in the food chain I go, the better. But I still don’t know how smart I am…compared to other people. Compared to just me, I’m a friggin genius!
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#80

Postby Guess what? » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:12 pm

I don't get at all. How can I don't think bad about people but admiting that they see just what they wanna see.
It's stupid, it's unfair, sounds like children's whim. For a person i did 100 right things, then 2-3 bad things, and now I'm an "idiot" that don't even deserve importance.
This is stupid... my best friend never left me in 15 years of friendships though my mistakes, and I don't left him though his mistakes.
Also, I don't convinced you in some replys but you didn't send me to faque (i like this term xD) myself.. also when you admited to having been rude in a reply, I didn't left this thread 'cause I didn't trust you anymore.
Nobody is perfect, everyone has "lights and shadows" inside. I can't pretend the forgiveness for everything, but well, pencils have eraser for a reason.

I can accept it, but this doesn't mean that I will like it. Once somebody said "What do you want to show with this 'world hating' ?" I didn't think that was a part of me.

Also you see? You too have hard feelings with others "they are monkeys". xD
Good luck with your new job, anyway. :)
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#81

Postby Guess what? » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:23 pm

Saying good things, for a bad goal, isn't ever the best. Someone tried with me and I felt like if this someone was faqueing around with me. People aren't stupid. I said to this someone what really I was thinking and now the get offended is his/her weapon; but at least I have been honest.
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#82

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:33 pm

Good Morning Guess What,

I think you are in denial about reality – shaking your fist against the sky, or holding your hand up to stop the tide. Yes, it is undeniable that social people in a real world, where they have been shaped by the necessities of evolution, will remember threats and problems more than stuff that that they do not need to worry about, that is when people are good, nice and kind. However, nobody is perfect. You said yourself that that you are still friends with imperfect people, and they can still be friends with you. But the problems do not go away. Long ago I had a friend. We were friends since childhood. He did me some favors and I never forgot him for it. And he was amusing to hang out with. However, he proved to be unreliable, and so I learned not to rely upon him for anything, and whenever I saw him, I saw him, but I would never make plans that included him, as I couldn’t rely on him to show up. Also, he was friends with people who were my enemies, with whom I acted friendly enough, but that made me limit what I spoke to my friend about, because I knew that when I was speaking with him, I was speaking to all of them also. So, he was still my friend, that is, as far as the reality of the situation permitted.

Guess What. You need to begin to digest all of this and accept it. You want to maximize the number of your friends, minimize the number of your enemies and get along with everybody. I really believe in the possibility of a World where people are more social and cooperative, that is, more like their personal pronoun is “we” instead of “I”. But people will fit in where they belong. If you are friendly, reliable, interesting and discrete then your social horizons are limitless. But so many people fall short of that, even in areas where it is all their own fault. We can’t all have great looks and wonderful talents, but each and every one of us could be ‘easy going’, reliable (keeping to our promises), and discrete (not doing or saying anything that might embarrass another… even if its ‘funny’), but so many of us don’t even try. They think that they have to be in a constant struggle with Society, and so Society, in its turn, senses their hostility, and it makes everybody nervous and watchful. Remember, we are Social Animals. All our natural born instincts are honed for these social perceptions.

Guess What, you simply aren’t comfortable with people. You’re being nervous with people, well, it makes them nervous. One of the things you can do to become more comfortable with people is to stop construing all of these necessary things as negative – finding reasons to complain about what on evaluation you know to be the facts of life. Accept limitations philosophically without all the drama.

Also, I suspect that you look at every social encounter in respect to how it affects you. This creates a kind of social tunnel vision. Forget about yourself and think about other people’s actions in terms of their motives for themselves, and not their motives in regards to you. Or their motives in regards to others. Try to figure out the Big Picture first, before worrying about how you fit into it, as you will have plenty of time for that later. Try to be discerning and objective. You can’t do that while you are entirely self-referenced. Start thinking of yourself in terms of the Big We instead of the Little Me. But, again, not in any overly optimistic idealistic way, but in a discerning real-world objective way. I don’t want you to delude yourself, but to be socially successful and well adapted. Why be dysfunctional if nobody is making you?
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#83

Postby Guess what? » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:25 pm

Good afternoon Leo!

But the problems do not go away.


Ok, but this is so unfair. Problems will keep come. This is what I don't like about people when they are in a relationship.. Love and peace, and when the first problem comes, goodbye.
I mean, what? Sounds too much like a prima donna, like nowadays people are too touchy, and you have to considerer that on the other side there is a person, with emotions. But "people are thinking just about theirself" we know.

I'm starting to be confused... I have to think about myself, but also as Big We.I can't be remain the same, but what can I be? I don't understand well how i have to act. With new people or people that I know just a few I become a statue, I can't let go myself out, others can do but how can I understand if I'm gonna do something wrong? There are so many rules.

every one of us could be ‘easy going’, reliable (keeping to our promises), and discrete (not doing or saying anything that might embarrass another… even if its ‘funny’),


Sounds like me.
I hate making promises. With that girl i made one and then retraited it, and i wasn't discrete.
About being discrete sometimes people isn't like this, for flirting or for have confidence with others... but with the doubt I will avoid to say bad thing.
Friends anyway mock each other many times. Then they will take me as a closed dude, more than how I am.

Guess What, you simply aren’t comfortable with people. You’re being nervous with people, well, it makes them nervous. One of the things you can do to become more comfortable with people is to stop construing all of these necessary things as negative – finding reasons to complain about what on evaluation you know to be the facts of life. Accept limitations philosophically without all the drama.


I think I'm uncomfortable with people even out of this thread. I'm timid and I lack self confidence. But the biggest part of the self confidence comes from others, so..

Also, I suspect that you look at every social encounter in respect to how it affects you. This creates a kind of social tunnel vision. Forget about yourself and think about other people’s actions in terms of their motives for themselves, and not their motives in regards to you. Or their motives in regards to others. Try to figure out the Big Picture first, before worrying about how you fit into it, as you will have plenty of time for that later. Try to be discerning and objective. You can’t do that while you are entirely self-referenced. Start thinking of yourself in terms of the Big We instead of the Little Me. But, again, not in any overly optimistic idealistic way, but in a discerning real-world objective way. I don’t want you to delude yourself, but to be socially successful and well adapted. Why be dysfunctional if nobody is making you?


I don't understand well this part.

I knew one guy who was so ‘easy going’ that he would never say “no” – for instance, he would agree to do musical gigs, to fill in for people, and then just not show up. He would probably agree to give people money, but then never get around to going to the bank for it. Well, I think his method of ‘easy going’ was a bit confusing for people.


I think this guy is seen as not credible and unreliable.
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#84

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:45 am

Good Morning Guess What,

Well, great, you are thinking about everything I am telling you. Oh, about the guy I knew who was wonderfully ‘easy going’ but unreliable. He still had plenty of friends, but people just learned never to rely upon him if they were the ones doing the asking. For instance, with music gigs, people would only trust him if he was the one who walked in and asked for the job. As long as something was his idea, then they could trust him. But, yes, he would probably have a difficult time with the gals once his inclination for saying “yeah” but doing “no” was discovered.

About you being reserved with new people. Well, honestly, if you weren’t I would tell you to be. With any new person you really do only want to just watch and learn for a while. Let them reveal themselves, and that way you will be able to figure out what line to take with them. You can get good with that in practice. President Johnson’s father, who was also a scheming politician, used to tell him that he should be able to walk into a crowded smoky room and be able to look around and figure out in 20 seconds who is for him and who is against him (it’s the ability to read ‘body language’). But, yeah, what’s your hurry to perform in front of new people? Just remember to smile and be polite. Show that you are listening. When they speak, orient your body in their direction. Don’t cross your arms or look down or away, but don’t stare at them. All you have to show is that you are interested in them without really doing or saying anything. The good thing about being “easy going’ is that it is “easy”, once we figure it out.

Oh, and about Relationships, how people do not ‘give them a chance’ after they get a first ‘bad feeling’ about it. Well, I couldn’t agree more. I think that People in general are finally arriving at the conclusion that long-term relationships, for the most part, don’t work, and lead to far more unhappiness than happiness. Back when I was still eager to be in relationships I read this paper by a guy who said that most people stay in relationships mostly because they do not want the relationship to ‘fail’, even if it makes them very unhappy. He advised putting a calendar up on the wall and every month to put either a little “h” or a “u” discretely in the corner of each month, depending on whether it was a ‘happy’ month or an ‘unhappy’ month over all (the reason for the small letters is so that it wouldn’t attract the attention of your relationship partner who might begin to ask uncomfortable questions). He says that if you notice a trend of unhappiness, well, your relationship has already failed, hasn’t it? Are you in a relationship to be happy, or just in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship, even if it is making you miserable? But, yes, there are a few people out of every hundred whose personalities are so soft and moldable that they can link up and be happy with another person in their way all the time, and if two such people find each other, well, oh how beautiful and lovely. But for most people it is probably best to be ‘foot loose and fancy free’ and to stay on their own and just casually date or save their money for high class escorts.

Now, about what you are supposed to do and who you are supposed to be. You will figure that out in time. Remember you are still young. At your age I don’t think I had even yet picked up my first violin. Anyway, this is why I am starting you out with the primary goal of simply being “easy going”. “Easy Going” will not get you into any trouble. If you can be discrete in your humor and smile a lot, then being ‘easy going’ could even make you popular. But as time moves along, as you get more and more practice in controlling the way you think and the way you behave, then you will be able to build on ‘easy going’. If you get a Vision of what you want to be, then you could work on that. But for right now being “easy going” should almost be self-explanatory. If you still think that people want you to talk and do stuff, well, remember what we should both know by now, that people essentially don’t care. People are focused on themselves, right? Be friendly, be attentive, nod, be polite. You will find that it will be possible to have a successful social outing without saying more than 20 words the whole evening. Its not that hard. As I said before, when people think about you, it will be that you ‘are a nice guy’, even if they can’t think of a single reason why. They say that half the trick to being successful is just “showing up”, and the other half is not ‘screwing up’. So show up and don’t screw up. What’s so hard? Also, by not expecting yourself to perform like a trained seal, balancing a ball on your nose, for people, well, you will be under a lot less pressure for yourself, which will reduce your anxieties. You will learn how to have fun just being with people – laughing with them (and often, in your secret heart, laughing at them). You could enjoy thing more if you weren’t so stressed out. Well, I better get back to work… the Math table.
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#85

Postby Guess what? » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:10 pm

Good afternoon, Leo.

About you being reserved with new people. Well, honestly, if you weren’t I would tell you to be.


Oh, really? it is said that being reserved is a flaw. Like if you are too timid, social inept, with relationship trouble.
I think you understood that my biggest problem is treating with girls.
Yeah, my friends were the "last drop" that bring me to open this thread, but mostly is 'cause I become insane after a bad experience with a girl.
I know, we already talked about it; but I wanna do experience, I really lack experience, and waiting 30s will bring me there like a newbie. Then I will able to act like i'm not, but they will understand.
But we already talked about women, so you that they can be interested even if i'm really reserved? People says 'no' I have doubt about, but I'm not the kind of guy that wanna escluse other theorys if he already has one; so I always kept that window open.
Then I know that "interesting guys" have their own way downhill, but we were not born all interesting. Everything matters a little, if you understand what I mean, but just a little.

Let them reveal themselves, and that way you will be able to figure out what line to take with them.


Oh, that "Changing behaviour depending on who you have in front of you". I do, many people does, I don't think this is wrong, human being are complicated and so they can have many shades.
Somebody can be the same with everyone, i admire them; that means they are "good enough" for everyone in their true identity.

Oh, and about Relationships, how people do not ‘give them a chance’ after they get a first ‘bad feeling’ about it. Well, I couldn’t agree more. I think that People in general are finally arriving at the conclusion that long-term relationships, for the most part, don’t work, and lead to far more unhappiness than happiness.


This is really sad. I can understand it after years, but throwing away all just for a mistake is stupid; in my opinione. As I said, toubles will come, and if we have to throw away everything at first problem, we should end our life years ago.
But well, let's turn this page. But yes, after years, or months, if you are unhappy for very long time, something is wrong; and there i can understand.

Now, about what you are supposed to do and who you are supposed to be. You will figure that out in time. Remember you are still young. At your age I don’t think I had even yet picked up my first violin. Anyway, this is why I am starting you out with the primary goal of simply being “easy going”. “Easy Going” will not get you into any trouble. If you can be discrete in your humor and smile a lot, then being ‘easy going’ could even make you popular. But as time moves along, as you get more and more practice in controlling the way you think and the way you behave, then you will be able to build on ‘easy going’. If you get a Vision of what you want to be, then you could work on that. But for right now being “easy going” should almost be self-explanatory. If you still think that people want you to talk and do stuff, well, remember what we should both know by now, that people essentially don’t care. People are focused on themselves, right? Be friendly, be attentive, nod, be polite. You will find that it will be possible to have a successful social outing without saying more than 20 words the whole evening. Its not that hard. As I said before, when people think about you, it will be that you ‘are a nice guy’, even if they can’t think of a single reason why. They say that half the trick to being successful is just “showing up”, and the other half is not ‘screwing up’. So show up and don’t screw up. What’s so hard? Also, by not expecting yourself to perform like a trained seal, balancing a ball on your nose, for people, well, you will be under a lot less pressure for yourself, which will reduce your anxieties. You will learn how to have fun just being with people – laughing with them (and often, in your secret heart, laughing at them). You could enjoy thing more if you weren’t so stressed out. Well, I better get back to work… the Math table.


Uh ok, sorry for my hurry. I'm just so scared and confused on trying this "new" thing.
As I said, I like to be friendly, once they liked me for this, then I screwed up with my fears, with my whinys and with my anger attacks.
But now I drink less, I cutted in part my crazy attacks. The highest I reached in these days is just answer when I was irritated due a drunk friend.. he was really annoying.
I'm just scared of not being... noticed? Of don't leaving the mark on others.
Like saturday, when one of my friends touched a girl's boobs, then another one take her and kiss her, all in front of her girlfriend (she is bisex or kinda). I did nothing, but so I don't want to having lost my opportunity of "doing something".

I don't know if I made it clear. Maybe I talk too much about women. But, putting it in another way, it is like if anyone is better than me on being a friend. 'Cause they are more open and so compare their experience with others and so; doing games or actions that others will remember happily.
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#86

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:12 pm

Good Morning Guess What,

A tropical storm blew over in the night and I was checking the weather satellite to see if it was really past. Oh, you describe stories where you are with friends who do disgraceful things. I wonder why you chose to have people like these as your friends? Are you so lonely that you have to hang out with just any random set of low-lifes? I can’t believe that all of your Nation, City or Town are like that. Why not just abandon that crowd, and makes plans for rising up to a better level? You know what I am doing. I am going back to school.

Oh, I find that you idealize the type of person who is the same ‘self’ in every room, no matter who he is with – the same in a orgy as he would be in a Cathedral, or at a Polish Wedding as a Chinese. Well, such a person would have to be blind to the social context and entirely centered on himself. You are talking about a deeply dysfunctional personality – somebody that only thinks of his or her own self. You know, narcissistic… presidential. You do not want to be like that. Why do you think you are supposed to listen and observe if not in order to help regulate your behavior? “when in Rome do as the Romans do”, but you have to pay attention to the ‘road signs’ just to know when you are ‘in Rome’. There’s an idea that has gone through my mind – ‘persona theory’, that our brains’ higher functions have plenty of room, and if we can develop one personality, for interacting with our family and school when we were young, then couldn’t we develop other personas for other social milieus? Of course, we can. In America we see instances of it when on Thanksgiving Day in November family members that were scattered all around the Country come home for a big meal. Well, what people notice is that they get sucked back into their ‘family persona’, which is often disconcerting because they may be 30 or 40 years old, but their family persona left off in development when they were really young adults, like you, practically a child, so these middle aged people are surprised to find themselves squabbling like teenagers. We have people who have gone into the Military and have developed a separate Military Persona, but when they are on leave, go back seamlessly to a civilian persona (accept as in regards to long time career military who generally become foul mouthed small minded alcoholics… and those are the successful ones!). There are people who may work in ethnic neighborhoods or in factories with a predominance of ethnic workers, and so they develop an “ethnic persona” to adapt to this society. None of this is necessarily conscious. Remember, like I am always trying to tell you, we are Social Animals (where you seem to be a bit socially dysfunctional). We have large brains with plenty of room for creating a Specialized Persona for every Predictable Social Condition. We are evolutionarily developed to be socially adaptable. This is not only normal, but it is what should be the ideal.

I have read a lot of History. What I saw time and time again in Ancient History was that conquering hordes would sweep into a town or city or village and either kill or enslave all the men, but they would take the young women still in bloom and parcel them out as either dedicated wives or consorts or to be non-specific ‘camp followers’. Yes, there are a few stories of such women refusing the change and jumping off of lover’s cliffs or whatever, but what the general story seems to be is that the women adapted. Now, what is one of these Bandit Warriors supposed to think about the girls he left ‘back-home’ after seeing how easy it is for a ‘respectable farm or town girls’ he has run across in his travels to go to being a ‘camp followers’. It is not like these women never laugh and smile again, even while their husbands from before had either been slain or sent off in slavery. The point is that we evolved to adapt. Its normal. They might call it the Stockholm Syndrome but its not a dysfunction. Its normal.

Also, Guess What, you need to begin to watch how you think. Remember, that Cognitive Behavioral Therapy starts with the cognitive. Well, I noticed that when I speak to you about ending disastrous relationships, you have come back more than once with the phrase “throw away everything at the first problem”. You need to keep your thinking realistic. Do not let yourself exaggerate or hyperbolize because at a certain level your mind takes your thoughts seriously. Now certainly you do not really believe that anybody throws anything substantial away at the first problem. To you it may seem like the “first problem”, but, remember, you are so fixated on yourself that you are not really paying attention to what other people are saying and what their body language is telling you. From my own experience I can tell you that I have gone on more than several dates with people and found that I was quite ambiguous in regards to them – the scales were bobbing up and down pro and con. But eventually you have to make up your mind, right? You just can’t stick in every relationship you get into. People are not interchangeable. Some people are better than others, and we only want the good ones, right? Usually, you have to make up your mind by, well, some people say the 3rd date, some people the 5th, but whatever that limit is, the cutoff point, well you have to decide. And the stakes are steep. This is the person you could get stuck with, who someday might make your life miserable and then take you to divorce court and take everything you earned over 30 years. And in such circumstances, it might seem a ‘little thing’ that finally allows you to make up your mind. So, it is not ever just “the first thing”. People are judging the other person’s complete presentation. Also, you must be careful. I had a friend, an actual licensed Psychologist, who advised me to be entirely phony while on dates. Well, yes, that is what it appears that I am advising you to do socially, but with relationships I would think that you owe it to the other person to show them how you would behave in a normal relaxed home setting, which is NOT ‘date’ behavior. So when you are dating people, often you will encounter ‘skilled daters’ who are adept at being able to ‘make it through’ that trial period of 3 to 5 to however many dates it takes before people are considered de facto to be in a ‘relationship’. Anyway, when you are up against such ‘skilled’ dissimulators, then you really need to be sharp to see the natural person under what they are projecting with their careful ‘dating’ behavior. You are new to all of this, but the women you date, well, as they say in America, “it’s not their first rodeo”… they’ve been through the wars. You’ve never seen it, but women can be quite seductive if they are targeting you. But once they get you in their snares, the nice behavior will screech to a stop, unless they are genuinely nice. But how do you know they are nice if they might just be acting? In this case you must really pay attention to body language and even ‘micro-expressions’. Especially watch them when they do not know you are watching, as, for instance, excuse yourself to wash your hands but circle around and come back into the room by another door and observe for a moment… is she the same person or not? If you ever become something that women want, it is both a blessing and a curse, and you will have to learn to winnow the wheat from the chaff.

But, remember, the girls you meet will also be observing you. They learn to pick up on ‘the feeling they get’ about guys, even beyond what they empirically say and do. Yes, you could get tossed over because of a ‘hunch’ they have about you. Which is a good thing! You do not want to be with a woman with whom you do not really ‘click’. At this point in your life you have no idea that your unhappiness now in not having a woman is NOTHING compared to how unhappy you could be in an unhappy relationship. Maybe you just need to get past that ‘still being a virgin” thing. What, are you totally broke? Ask around and find a Call Girl or an Escort that comes highly recommended and call her up and frankly explain your situation, and if she doesn’t take your case, well, she might know somebody who does specialize in ‘cherry picking’ or whatever the ladies call it. That should take the pressure off and allow you to think rationally from thence on forwards.

Have a nice day, Guess What.
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#87

Postby Guess what? » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:57 am

Good morning, Leo.

A tropical storm blew over in the night and I was checking the weather satellite to see if it was really past. Oh, you describe stories where you are with friends who do disgraceful things. I wonder why you chose to have people like these as your friends? Are you so lonely that you have to hang out with just any random set of low-lifes? I can’t believe that all of your Nation, City or Town are like that. Why not just abandon that crowd, and makes plans for rising up to a better level? You know what I am doing. I am going back to school.


Was there a tropical storm for real? I hope everything is ok.
Yeah, they are so... different from me? They have a lot of experience, while I have not and they are so superficial. They talk only about sex, rarely anything out of that,

"Are you so lonely that you have to hang out with just any random set of low-lifes?" Yes, kinda... Before them I have been literally alone for one year, before that year, I had too passive friends, they were kinda boring.
They living as american street boys, drugs, sex and house music; 80% of people here are like this. Hoping just that they won't change me in a bad way.
But they can bring me in very different situation (on the limit of the law), yesterday two girls invite us (5 boys, 2 were gay lol, and I didn't know the other 2 ) to their home. We drunk beer and danced on the terrace, like the private party. And one of that girl flirt me, and we have some fun... without have sex, depression denays me getting hard when the playtime comes.

Before of that I knew that the girl who I have a crush, dates with a really hot guy, and sometimes she goes out with our friend and then goes doing bl**job with guys she know on tinder.
I don't know what I'm feeling honestly, right now nothing. My "love" side is so scared, stepped and shattered that I just feel like e weigh on the chest. I based my "entire" life on this, and i think that is the causes of my trouble. Anger attack, depression, being a child, etc.
But I can't doing much, if it was so easy "don't thinking about it", I would have do it already.
But i'm just doing a theory... sure I can't know if this is real.

Oh, I find that you idealize the type of person who is the same ‘self’ in every room, no matter who he is with - You do not want to be like that.


Oh, got it.

they may be 30 or 40 years old, but their family persona left off in development when they were really young adults, like you, practically a child,


Oh you mean that I'm a child 'cause I don't develop good enough my "personalities"? You can be right, but, well, i suppose it is hard when you lack experience. You are one of guy that I had to encounter years ago.

we are Social Animals (where you seem to be a bit socially dysfunctional)


Yeah, I have lots of social trouble. I can tell it.

It is not like these women never laugh and smile again, even while their husbands from before had either been slain or sent off in slavery. The point is that we evolved to adapt. Its normal. They might call it the Stockholm Syndrome but its not a dysfunction. Its normal.


I don't uderstand on what you are talking about. That I have to adapt even if I don't like the situation?

Well, I noticed that when I speak to you about ending disastrous relationships, you have come back more than once with the phrase “throw away everything at the first problem”. You need to keep your thinking realistic. Do not let yourself exaggerate or hyperbolize because at a certain level your mind takes your thoughts seriously. Now certainly you do not really believe that anybody throws anything substantial away at the first problem. To you it may seem like the “first problem”, but, remember, you are so fixated on yourself that you are not really paying attention to what other people are saying and what their body language is telling you.


I really don't know body language.
Yeah... probably I say "first problem" but it can just be for me. With others probably they were not really interested, with that girl probably there was an entire situation behind.
She needed money, and her Ex- didn't give them to her anymore. We had a bad night once, the next day she wanted to left me 'cause I didn't want to bring ahead a discussion, then there was that "other girl" thing, but that i wanna only her, and goodbye. But first of that I did many good things for her, this is why I'm saying that "they can't remember just bad things".

Then she was angry 'cause she saw me with another girl again (but hey, i was single and she went back with her ex), and then I sais to her that she stinks. Well, she really do, but i didn't know that she has an hormonal problem. I said sorry everytime, I emotionally expose myself and she just played with me or didn't care at all.
I see now what you're saying. It's like if you study for days, you read again and again books, then, the day of the test, there are that few question that you don't know the answer... you know perfectly the subject except for that 3 things and so you do bad.
So, they must think "I know you are good, but you did too many mistakes".

It is not that she dind't mistakes as well... but i can tell that she act like you are describing, she change behaviour on who she has in front of, she says "it is ok" but deep down she's hating you, and after all she was still trying to be my friend, before the stink thing. She was always calm when I was angy, and never said the truth. When I said that I would have do everything to gain her trust for me again, she wasn't for the "No", but she just sayed "Do whatever you want to do. It must be something that you want to do. But now I don't know who I am, what i want, and where I'm going" (go faque yourself).
So she went out from this completely clean.. except for something, like some offences, and when she changed the story when she was telling it to others.

What is making me mad is that now she's thanking god, buddha, and every holy figures to have lost me, 'cause now she found better. Or maybe she would have uses tinder anyway if she was with me, dunno.
She won. Women always win, damn. Then people says i'm misoginist... i don't think so much, but how can't you be?

So if I have a date I have to act like I'm home? Nothing new i suppose.

You are totally right. I'm basing my life on this...... but you see, I don't have any goal.. i'm not interested in anything else; but maybe at my age is normale, how many youngs think just about this? But I'm feeling so behind.
Like if I lack something, like if I'm a genetic scrap, like if i don't deserve what everybody can get easily.
I don't think I will marry, as i said, it is a trap right now... don't understimate me, if a relationship will make me unhappy I will not go ahead, but this is the fact, i can't have any.
Escort you said, but i wanna feel the emotion of someone (not a gay possibly) that wants me so bad, that watch me and says "yeah he is ok" "I like him".
Yesterday a girl who i know was a little bit drunk and happy, so when she greeted me she kissed me really close to the mouth (the 2 kisses on cheecks, but she was doing like that), and then I said something and she, laughing, leaned her head on me. I like this kinda of thing; not someone that is wondering how much you have and how much time you last.

Well, I think we talked a lot today, and touched many deep points. Have a nice day Leo. :mrgreen:
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#88

Postby Leo Volont » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:55 am

Good Morning GW,
Oh, it was a little tropical storm yesterday, just enough to blow over a banana tree that hasn’t been ‘storm pruned’, which they all are nowadays that we have Satellite Weather Forecasting . Lost power for a while and the water stopped running for a few hours then everything was back to normal again.

Oh, you get so nervous that you don’t even get an erection when a girl is flirting with you. Wow! That is serious. Yeah, you should make some calls. Does your country, city or town have Sex Therapists? This a what they specialize in. Yeah, it might be expensive because it might take a few consultations before they can relax all of your anxieties. In literature it is a common plot turn that an experienced older woman will help a young man through his first nervous sexual experience. So, yeah, you could save a lot of money if some older woman ever started flirting with you. Next time that happens, ask her to lunch and talk freely with her.

Oh, I called you a child because you are only 22. Remember, “life begins at 40”. And, yes, it is just beginning then. That is when guys start to have their ‘mid-life crisis’, which is actually what happens as the guy discovers himself and begins to experiment with all of his new realizations and self-discoveries. Until 40, people are totally lost, but they don’t yet even realize it. “Life begins at 40”.

Oh, about developing adaptive personas to deal with situations, well, yes, especially you need to adapt when situations are bad. Sometime you can adapt simply by running away. Becoming a refugee in the face of War is a form of adaptation. My telling you to find a new set of friends is my effort to give you a possibility for adaptation. But when you are captive in a situation and have no choice but to stay with it, then, of course you need to adapt to it. Now, if you are cunning, big and powerful, then you can adapt simply by taking charge of the situation. But if you can see that your group status is middling or bottom, well, then you have to adapt to make the best of it. It might surprise you what people can adapt to. For instance, often veteran combat soldiers will not talk about their War days except sometime to say that the “real heroes” all got killed. They obviously don’t want to talk about how they adapted to stay alive when so many others died. Any time you have a few people survive in a situation where many people died, you have an instance of successful adaptation, but you do not ever want to ask them how they survived, because, well, they had developed a Survival Persona, not because that is who they idealistically wanted to be, but because that is who they needed to be given the horrible situation they were in. But that is NOT who they are now. It is always good that such ‘Survival Personas’ be allowed to die too, once the ‘gates of liberation’ are thrown open and we are allowed to pursue the Ideal once more.

So, yes, the Personas you use to adapt to situations are ‘the real you’ but only in the sense that they are the ‘Persona’ that your Larger Self has generated for that situation – for instance, you Work Place Persona. It is not phony. It is a “real” persona. GW, I still don’t think you are getting this idea. Are you always really the same no matter where you go or who you are with?

Oh, I thought of this yesterday. Do you know any Roma People, that is, Gypsies? They are masters of adaptive Personas. In dealings with the greater society, wherever they happen to be, they can learn to mimic the culture and mannerisms, and even assume the same kind of names like everybody else. In America they like the name “Miller”, or any name that has more than a few pages in the phone book. But when they are home with their family, the revert to their Roma Persona. They are very secretive. They do not seem to like speaking about their Roma Culture and Ways. Often they will not tell “Outsiders” that they are even Roma. Sometimes they will invite guests to their homes, but if they are Outsiders, then it is customary to smash the plates that the outsiders ate on and throw them in the trash, or so I have been told, but, as I said, since Roma People hesitate to talk, or to tell the truth, about their culture, an Outsider can’t really be sure of anything about Roma People (unless you could run surveillance on a Roma family with micro-cameras and microphones). But, anyway, the Roma People offer a view into the possibilities for developing multiple personas for dealing with multiple situations.

Oh, and another thing about women, or people in general. I believe there are only about 100 to 150 personality types at most, and probably significantly less. The reason I believe that is because Effective Self Contained Human Social Groups (where everybody knows everybody else’s name and everyone seems to know the status relationship between every one, and everyone in that group is considered “one of us” and not “one of them”) have evolved to be no larger than about 150 people. Larger than that and then they begin to fragment into factions and subgroups. For instance, Tribal Village Units in primitive times would subdivide if their population got much above 150 members. So my thinking is that in evolutionary terms we could expect that if we have 150 random people in a room, then we would have all the necessary personality types required to make a viable Social Group. What this means to you is that out of every 50 or 75 women, there will be one who is perfect for you. Yeah, I call you ‘dysfunctional’, but the truth is that you are a product of millions of years of Evolution, and so it is very likely that you are actually a distinct and somehow necessary Personality Type, and then, well, maybe but not necessarily there will be a female counterpart to go along with you. So, yeah, I really don’t believe you are looking for any “one in a thousand” woman. I would guess that on a busy day walking around town on a weekend, you might see 2 or 3 perfect girls that would be suitable for you, that is, unless you are a personality type designed to be alone.

Well, back to the Math Table….
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#89

Postby Guess what? » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:34 pm

Hi leo!

Leo Volont wrote:Good Morning GW,
Oh, it was a little tropical storm yesterday, just enough to blow over a banana tree that hasn’t been ‘storm pruned’, which they all are nowadays that we have Satellite Weather Forecasting . Lost power for a while and the water stopped running for a few hours then everything was back to normal again.


Oh, nothing serious then. Good.

Leo Volont wrote:Oh, you get so nervous that you don’t even get an erection when a girl is flirting with you. Wow! That is serious. Yeah, you should make some calls. Does your country, city or town have Sex Therapists? This a what they specialize in. Yeah, it might be expensive because it might take a few consultations before they can relax all of your anxieties. In literature it is a common plot turn that an experienced older woman will help a young man through his first nervous sexual experience. So, yeah, you could save a lot of money if some older woman ever started flirting with you. Next time that happens, ask her to lunch and talk freely with her.


Yeah, I told you my mental trouble has an impact on my body. This is why I have to go to a specialist.
I will think about this "older woman thing", just I don't like the prostitution, not at my age.


Leo Volont wrote:So, yes, the Personas you use to adapt to situations are ‘the real you’ but only in the sense that they are the ‘Persona’ that your Larger Self has generated for that situation – for instance, you Work Place Persona. It is not phony. It is a “real” persona. GW, I still don’t think you are getting this idea. Are you always really the same no matter where you go or who you are with?


Well, not really the same. It is difficult to say, but yes, I act different depending on who I have in front of. Maybe sometimes I mix the things, but we are talking always about the social situation. For the rest well, I don't change completey, just trying to be "easy going".

About this, you said that I can be stubborn, just remaining calm. So if sometimes something or someone is annoying me? If they are saying something that can be offencing I have to say "i'm not that bad" but if someone insists? Like if they are focused on me for any reason?

Leo Volont wrote: Oh, I thought of this yesterday. Do you know any Roma People, that is, Gypsies?


Uhm no. Here they are a kind of criminal. Better do not be involved with them.

Leo Volont wrote:Oh, and another thing about women, or people in general. I believe there are only about 100 to 150 personality types at most, and probably significantly less. The reason I believe that is because Effective Self Contained Human Social Groups (where everybody knows everybody else’s name and everyone seems to know the status relationship between every one, and everyone in that group is considered “one of us” and not “one of them”) have evolved to be no larger than about 150 people. Larger than that and then they begin to fragment into factions and subgroups. For instance, Tribal Village Units in primitive times would subdivide if their population got much above 150 members. So my thinking is that in evolutionary terms we could expect that if we have 150 random people in a room, then we would have all the necessary personality types required to make a viable Social Group. What this means to you is that out of every 50 or 75 women, there will be one who is perfect for you. Yeah, I call you ‘dysfunctional’, but the truth is that you are a product of millions of years of Evolution, and so it is very likely that you are actually a distinct and somehow necessary Personality Type, and then, well, maybe but not necessarily there will be a female counterpart to go along with you. So, yeah, I really don’t believe you are looking for any “one in a thousand” woman. I would guess that on a busy day walking around town on a weekend, you might see 2 or 3 perfect girls that would be suitable for you, that is, unless you are a personality type designed to be alone.

Well, back to the Math Table….


Do you think this or there is any kind of study about this?
I hope so.. but then I read about that women that are "so happy" for their husbands but cheat on them 'cause they cannot let that hot guy go.
But I remember what you said: accept your piece of cake. Do not make your emotion a weight for anyone and do not think on what they do when they are not with you.
Even if I feel so bad on knowing that one has fun with others.. but maybe is 'cause I have not found someone else yet.

Anyway actually someone can be socially dysfunctional. There are many mental issue that can bring a person to be inappropriate socially.
I found some forums about this, but there people are more whiny and 'weaker' than me. They don't seem in the way on wanting to improve the situation. They discourage any way. I can seem the same but actually I do not want to remain in the pain. The future will say if I can come out of this or not.

Ok, have a nice day with the Math Table!
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