Being morbid.

Postby Guess what? » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:57 am

My big flaws.
When i'm interested in a woman i start becoming morbid if she doesn't show that she likes me.i don t understand why i am looking for a codependence relationship.

Plus nowadays this fears girls that want more and more partners.
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#1

Postby Livetowin » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:23 pm

Codependency will sabotage you every time because ultimately you're asking for answers that you must answer yourself. So one of two things come from this - You either wear that person out by smothering them or you don't get the security comfort you're looking for and reject them by placing a standard on them they can't fulfill.

Lasting relationships come from people understanding how to recognize their own identity within the bond. If the relationship itself is the fabric of one's identity, then someone is always carrying more weight than the other because they have to cater to that shortfall. What happens is the person doing all the heavy lifting feels isolated as an emotional caregiver and the relationship fails.

If you desire a good relationship, you must first understand your own worth. Looking for people to give you attention has an expiration date no matter how you move the pieces on the board. To understand the actions and words of others you must first be centered with yourself, so you're not asking yourself what the other person is thinking. What a person does is ten fold more important than what they say. If you get caught up in the chase to "figure them out", you're not being real with them and you don't recognize the game they can be playing with you. Keep yourself real so you can see what is real around you.
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#2

Postby Guess what? » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:25 pm

Sometimes people give more importance to what i say than what i do.

Anyway i feel myself like worthless
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#3

Postby Guess what? » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:46 pm

Also, the more she rejects me, the more i want her. Why?
Plus nowadays it is really hard having an stable relationship.
I noticed that girls have a ton of boys that are ready to kill each other in order to have her. Girls are constantly looking for confirmed and so let boys come close.
And they are the first to be bored from the same man.

This is really sad, can it be that i want a pure love so bad to become so morbid?
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#4

Postby Livetowin » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:50 pm

How you perceive others is greatly measured by how you see yourself first. If you have strong self-esteem, you will typically have a strong identity, meaning you can think independent of what others say, even those whom you hold in high regard.

When you have low self-esteem, you get lost in this never-ending maze of what others "think" because you think there is a hidden truth to that. This is very much what is happening to you.

Because you have low self-esteem you subconsciously look for it in your relationships. You don't believe in what you're saying so you don't understand the responses you get back. You think the answer is examining them. Well, you're looking at it backwards.

Let me give you an hypothetical for context. Let's pretend you're swimming in waist deep water near a beach and you see a Great White swimming alarmingly close to you.

Based on what you know about yourself, the shark, and it's reputation as a predator are you going to swim towards it and see if you can buck the trend or are you going to get your rear-end out of there because you're fearful it might come after you because of the aggressive behavior it is exhibiting?

Hopefully your answer is the latter and you value your life enough to get the hell out of there. So my question to you is why don't use that same measure when it comes to people?

You say many of the girls you look at for relationships enjoy the company of many males around them. Instead of assuming their motives are the right ones, have you ever considered they are NOT the right kind of people for you and therefore you should get out of those settings?

If history tells you getting involved means you get bit, then why doesn't that primal instinct kick in like it would if you saw a killer shark? How many times do you need to get chewed up and spit out, before you realize it's not who you are that is wrong, it is the choice of picking them that is the mistake? That is what having low self-esteem does to people.

They can place themselves in the worst possible settings because they have no value in themselves to see they should not be there to begin with. They can't read people because they're too busy looking at superficial things they think will make them fill better about themselves.

You see a girl with allot of men around her, so your low-self esteem thinks if you get her you will have obtained "worth" in the face of competition. Your insecurities are momentarily fed. But they're living on borrowed time.

In truth, you will simply be another fish in the net getting played and she will take what she wants and deposit you when she is done. You will see none of that coming because you will think it was something you did wrong to make her get rid of you.

As stated, you need to quit examining the actions of others and look inward. You need to examine yourself and find value in what you believe instead of thinking that value is hidden in the deeds of others.

Only through understanding yourself will you begin to understand and recognize the intentions of others. Why is that? Because when you have you're own set of rules and standards, you won't give a sh** what others think. You'll quit worrying about what they are saying and only watch what they are doing. The clarity you get from that will be blinding, I assure you.
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#5

Postby Guess what? » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:30 pm

I see what you are saying.
Low self esteem has a cause, doesn't it?
I don't woke up a morning and say "I'm nothing"... others treat me in that way. Someone once told me 'you know how much you worth' the same person that left me and then saying 'you are no one who to give importance'.

every woman has a ton of men around her, Following that way means avoiding almost all of them. They for first live in a low self esteem condition, kept alive to the continue positive feedback they have from men. Very few women has not positive feedbacks.
But I can have big self esteem and being alone at the same time. Once i was proud of what I was, but there wasn't good results,so i realized.
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#6

Postby Candid » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:20 am

Guess what? wrote:every woman has a ton of men around her, Following that way means avoiding almost all of them. They for first live in a low self esteem condition, kept alive to the continue positive feedback they have from men. Very few women has not positive feedbacks.


You have some very strange ideas about women. That is the number one reason why there isn't one in your life.

We are people with feelings, just like men are.
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#7

Postby Livetowin » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:21 am

Guess what? wrote:I see what you are saying.
Low self esteem has a cause, doesn't it?
I don't woke up a morning and say "I'm nothing"... others treat me in that way. Someone once told me 'you know how much you worth' the same person that left me and then saying 'you are no one who to give importance'.

every woman has a ton of men around her, Following that way means avoiding almost all of them. They for first live in a low self esteem condition, kept alive to the continue positive feedback they have from men. Very few women has not positive feedbacks.
But I can have big self esteem and being alone at the same time. Once i was proud of what I was, but there wasn't good results,so i realized.


Your last sentence sums up my point. You are wrapping your identity into these experiences rather than looking at the choices you're making. And as Candid said, you need to get away from this stereotype of women. In fact, you need to start looking at people not as what they are, but who they are. Believe it or not we are all individuals. If the only kind of person you pick are incredibly vain and attention seekers, then you continue to pick from the wrong traits. You're looking at surface elements and not the actual person. As I said in my analogy, you play with the sharks.

Here's the added problem you have not considered. Until you can learn to see yourself as you are and treat people as individuals, you will not be the kind of person you need to be to attract that special person who would otherwise connect with you. Why? Because right now your value system is superficial. A person of substance will not waster their time with a person chasing props for self gratification.

You have your low self-esteem cloaked in this false notion that you have "high standards". Based on what you're saying, that is not the case at all. If life is a gym, you're the one gawking at the provocatively dressed predators demanding an audience while passing by the quiet more thoughtful people who are focused on the task at hand, which is improving themselves. I would sit down, re-calibrate you're ideas about quality and look more towards the actual person and less on the showroom finish that seems to have you blinded.
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#8

Postby Guess what? » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:48 pm

Candid wrote:You have some very strange ideas about women. That is the number one reason why there isn't one in your life.

We are people with feelings, just like men are.


Hi Candid.
Really sorry that I look so misoginist... maybe i am, but I'm think that I'm just so angry and jealous about not being loved.
There have been never women in my life, it's not just now.
Saying that they have not many men around them mean deny the truth in my opinion. It is not that I don't even talk with women, and they sometimes confirm me this.
Some (many) of girls i knew are used to go through social like tinder to get boys, I used this app too but never get something, just a date with a girl. Indeed this one said that she was chatting with other 2-3 guys lol.

I'm not perfect... i have been a worm with a girl who i really care; but I did a mistake in 22 years, for the rest they never give me a chance. And when you lack experience it is not easy to act like if you know what you are doing... you can do it but i don't think you will go far.

Livetowin wrote:
Guess what? wrote:I see what you are saying.
Low self esteem has a cause, doesn't it?
I don't woke up a morning and say "I'm nothing"... others treat me in that way. Someone once told me 'you know how much you worth' the same person that left me and then saying 'you are no one who to give importance'.

every woman has a ton of men around her, Following that way means avoiding almost all of them. They for first live in a low self esteem condition, kept alive to the continue positive feedback they have from men. Very few women has not positive feedbacks.
But I can have big self esteem and being alone at the same time. Once i was proud of what I was, but there wasn't good results,so i realized.


Your last sentence sums up my point. You are wrapping your identity into these experiences rather than looking at the choices you're making. And as Candid said, you need to get away from this stereotype of women. In fact, you need to start looking at people not as what they are, but who they are. Believe it or not we are all individuals. If the only kind of person you pick are incredibly vain and attention seekers, then you continue to pick from the wrong traits. You're looking at surface elements and not the actual person. As I said in my analogy, you play with the sharks.

Here's the added problem you have not considered. Until you can learn to see yourself as you are and treat people as individuals, you will not be the kind of person you need to be to attract that special person who would otherwise connect with you. Why? Because right now your value system is superficial. A person of substance will not waster their time with a person chasing props for self gratification.

You have your low self-esteem cloaked in this false notion that you have "high standards". Based on what you're saying, that is not the case at all. If life is a gym, you're the one gawking at the provocatively dressed predators demanding an audience while passing by the quiet more thoughtful people who are focused on the task at hand, which is improving themselves. I would sit down, re-calibrate you're ideas about quality and look more towards the actual person and less on the showroom finish that seems to have you blinded.


Good evening Live town.
Don't missunderstand me. I liked any girls with whom i had something, I can perfectly remember some particular of girls that I met once 3 years ago, just saying. I don't see them like things, or I would have not even open this thread; I would have just try with as many as i could.
But well when one say that you are good but she is seeing you as a friend (well, not even a friend), the second just disappeard and invents stupid pretestes to do not seeing you and the third just met another one that she liked him more phisically and stops even talk with you, well, you start to give you two or three answers.
You say I pick bad, some of them have been introduced by my friends, some of them was looking for me for first and then go back.

But they treat me always in the same way. Stereotypes are not completely legends though.

I don't understand well the last part of your post.

Anyway I think we are missing the point of the thread. My problem was being morbid... I could (still i can't) go over an ended story, I'm not annoying her, but still i'm thinking at her; and knowing that she is going, or already went, over this, hurts me so much. And she said that I was a stupid if I was still hoping, and my friends said me to get a new life. I saw other girls, but still can't forget her... even if with others i didn't reach the same point I reached with her, but with some they were the first to do not reach that point with me.
I feel so bad, I'm scared of what I will do (nothing against the law, i wanna be clear) with this sensation, and I was putting some friendships at the stake with this story.
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#9

Postby Candid » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:54 am

Guess what? wrote: And when you lack experience it is not easy to act like if you know what you are doing... you can do it but i don't think you will go far.


Life isn't a dress rehearsal, Guess What? You're not being asked to act a part. All you're asked to do is be yourself, express yourself, be real. Experience that and you won't have relationship problems.

The most important relationship is the one you have with yourself. If you don't like who you are, no one else will either. Be good to yourself. Have a good opinion of yourself. Then you won't need approval from a girlfriend or anyone else.
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#10

Postby Guess what? » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:44 am

In other threads someone told the exact opposite.
That people are not forced to accept me for what I am, and if I am a bad person I will be alone.
In the thread about anger management it has been said that I must act like nothing touches me, even if i feel really bad for it.

I don't wanna be myself, i'm scared from myself. I did things that are still making me suffer a lot, I hurted people that wanted to care about me.
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#11

Postby Candid » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:50 am

Guess what? wrote:people are not forced to accept me for what I am...


No, of course they're not. You like the people you like, right? It's not something you can control.

and if I am a bad person I will be alone.


Do you think you're a bad person? You don't seem like one here. Sad maybe, but not bad.

In the thread about anger management it has been said that I must act like nothing touches me, even if i feel really bad for it.


If you don't like who you are, I guess you have to hide everything about yourself. It's better to be mindful of how you interact with people, do unto others etc., so that at the end of each day you can tell yourself: "I did well."

I did things that are still making me suffer a lot, I hurted people that wanted to care about me.


All adults have some regrets. I'm sure I've hurt people as well -- usually because I was hurt myself at the time. Sometimes it's just thoughtlessness, or having an 'off' day. And there will always be people who misinterpret things you've said, deliberately or otherwise. There will always be people who don't like you. That's why it's so important to be on your own side. Unless you treat yourself well, you won't be able to treat others well.

If hurting people was recent, you could (if you feel like it) contact them and offer an apology. That's if the relationship matters to you. If it doesn't, no harm done.

You seem to be carrying a heavy burden of shame. You can make the decision right now that you're going to do better, become the more caring person you really are, and forgive yourself for whatever it is you think you've done badly.
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#12

Postby Guess what? » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:39 pm

Candid wrote:Do you think you're a bad person? You don't seem like one here. Sad maybe, but not bad.


Yes, i do. I think, or better I'm scared that I'm good just for a facade, and inside I just wanna hurt others for an unnamed revenge.
viewtopic.php?t=107063

^ See this. More than bad, i'm an idiot, I looked for a relationship for years and I destroyed everything in 2 weeks. Now I miss her so much, after 4 months, but she doesn't even talk to me anymore.
I hurted her for first; and she tried to remain as a friend but I didn't want a friendship and then I was pitiless.
I like her so much, but at the same time I'm so scared that she will look for a revenge or that she won't be able to go over all this... she can't go over this; or she wouldn't have reproach me my mistake after months.

Last words
"You know I care about you and I didn't mean to offend you so much"
"I have to forget it"
"You have to forget it, but I didn't want to hurt you"
"Ok"

But she turned tha page so easily. She forgot me.

If you don't like who you are, I guess you have to hide everything about yourself. It's better to be mindful of how you interact with people, do unto others etc., so that at the end of each day you can tell yourself: "I did well."


Sure.
Just I'm so timid and introvert, and when something comes out is like... arrogant and stupid.
I like joking then, I don't want to change so much.


All adults have some regrets. I'm sure I've hurt people as well -- usually because I was hurt myself at the time. Sometimes it's just thoughtlessness, or having an 'off' day. And there will always be people who misinterpret things you've said, deliberately or otherwise. There will always be people who don't like you. That's why it's so important to be on your own side. Unless you treat yourself well, you won't be able to treat others well.

If hurting people was recent, you could (if you feel like it) contact them and offer an apology. That's if the relationship matters to you. If it doesn't, no harm done.

You seem to be carrying a heavy burden of shame. You can make the decision right now that you're going to do better, become the more caring person you really are, and forgive yourself for whatever it is you think you've done badly.


I was proud once, saying "Nobody wants me, but with a chance I know I can make someone happy", and I did, i think, for a couple of weeks, but then she has been clear: I'm an idiot and I don't deserve importance.. and I think she is right. Facts are showing that she's right.

She doesn't want my apologyes, not once again. I can understand her, She's right, and I want that she is happy, and I want to be happy too. I was happy with her. I wished that I did mistakes with another one before her, so I wouldn't have do stupid things with her.
She is not perfect, but I did wrong for first; she saved me from my condition and I treated her so bad. And nobody trust me about this; I'm so morbid and talk with others ('cause we have friends in common) about her and one of them scolded me, saying "You keep talking about her. She never does. For her this is closed, get a life". Added then that I stalk her on instagram (it is not true) and that her version doesn't match with mine; this is why I'm saying she is not so pure and perfect; but then I cleared the situation with them.
But I wanna go back, I'm so sorry, but still avoided from women and so I don't have the "material" to go ahead. Even though I don't want it.. I'm scared that maybe i can still repair something but going with another one will feed her hate for me; even she is saying that she's dating with hot guys with tinder... this is confirm when I say that women can get boys with nothing. And I'm so scared that if, for that 0.01% of chance, she will come back, she will do just for a "cheap" decision, and then left me when she will find something better... strong for the fact that I hurted her.

I know it is ridicolous... we are talking about a girl, that i knew for 2 weeks, and after 4 months I still think at her.. and though I sweared everytime to stop talking about her, well, here i am again.
I feel like an hold on my chest, on my throat and inside my head, this one hurt so much. Don't know if this can mean something.
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#13

Postby Candid » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:13 am

Guess what? wrote: I wished that I did mistakes with another one before her, so I wouldn't have do stupid things with her.


Well guess what, Guess What? You are now in that position. You made the mistake, you acknowledge it was a mistake, and you won't make that mistake with the next one. Or will you?

I see on another thread you and Leo reinforcing each other's notions about how women think, what women want, how women behave. Leo is a curmudgeonly old man whose intimate relationships are with cats; you are at the other end of manhood. Just because he's given up on women doesn't mean you have to.

I'm saying she is not so pure and perfect...


Good! We are all, men and women, a mixture of good and bad, learning through experience what works and what doesn't. Your bravado, and your ideas about women, are what's keeping you on the outside. There's no great mystery to it. This one matters to you only because she dumped you. There are plenty of others.

I'm so scared that if, for that 0.01% of chance, she will come back, she will do just for a "cheap" decision, and then left me when she will find something better...


You are not helpless in this. Make the decision now that she definitely isn't coming back because you won't let her. You won't have her back. You're looking for someone who will adore you as you are.

Actually, having written that, I don't think it's true. If we deep down don't like ourselves, we look for someone who will change us, someone who's worth changing for. That's what you appear to be doing.

Your ideas about women -- that we have it easy, that we can 'get' any man we want, and that we can get from our men anything we want, are just so wrong it's not funny. Because you are young, you're not self-referring. To feel good about yourself you need approval from elsewhere. To you, approval from women seems like the pinnacle of success. I can assure you it isn't. Until you can approve of yourself, you won'r even begin to know who you are.

I know it is ridicolous... we are talking about a girl, that i knew for 2 weeks, and after 4 months I still think at her..


Yes -- because she gave you a chance, and you blew it. If I remember rightly, you made a stupid joke, a hurtful one. You literally don't know how to behave around women, so you get nervous and say stupid things.

As long as you're hating yourself you will go on alienating people and looking for an identity, any identity as long as it hides you and fools other people. That must be exhausting!

If you keep beating yourself up, you'll be black and blue and people will wonder what's wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with you apart from the fact that you don't like who you are.
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#14

Postby Guess what? » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:18 pm

Well guess what, Guess What? You are now in that position. You made the mistake, you acknowledge it was a mistake, and you won't make that mistake with the next one. Or will you?


Yeah, this is the same thing I said once, but then the next one seems never will come.
And if I did wrong with the only girl that would be by my side everytime? If the "next one" will step on me?

Something's wrong. Why she left me for a kiss, but now she's doing dirty things with many guys? Coherence...
Or maybe she really didn't want a long term relationship with me... i don't know, she switched her version so many times..

No.. i won't be able to do this again. Or maybe it is like wolves with blood, taste it once and become crazy for it.
I did it again kinda.. i knew a girl, she gave me her number, but the next day i was kissing the same girl with whom I "betrayed" the first one. But well, with that girl there was nothing yet.
I don't even know why I did it that time. Maybe I was already tired? Maybe for ego? Maybe for the alcohool? Maybe I was jealous of who found a girl that night? I don't know, sometimes people askes me if I really miss her, or just being mad cause I wanna that she forgives me despite everything...
Still, I'm scared enough to do not be that kind of gentle guy... and I'm wondering if it is bad.

I see on another thread you and Leo reinforcing each other's notions about how women think, what women want, how women behave. Leo is a curmudgeonly old man whose intimate relationships are with cats; you are at the other end of manhood. Just because he's given up on women doesn't mean you have to.


Please, don't say so. Leo is helping me 'cause I was destroying my friendships with this story. Being morbid even in that way. In fact, once one of my friend scold me 'cause i was talking too much about her, after much time; while she never names me and get boys with apps. While I'm stuck.

Yeah, he already talked to me about the cats thing or the have a moment of privacy to "let it out my loneliness"; but I explained more times that I'm not interesting in those.
I don't wanna give up with women, that is the problem. But we can't say that women have not a determinated behaviour. They have one, like men have their own.
Then of course people are different from each others, but you know what I mean.

Good! We are all, men and women, a mixture of good and bad, learning through experience what works and what doesn't. Your bravado, and your ideas about women, are what's keeping you on the outside. There's no great mystery to it. This one matters to you only because she dumped you. There are plenty of others.


Candid, don't think that I wrote a manual with my ideas about women and I follow it. I just get an idea on how world works.. and this brought me to become a kind of misantropist (and I'm not the one who said this).
A friend of mine said something similar.. that i was focused on her just 'cause she didn't come back. And that she is a trash bin, etc. well, let's skip this part.

You are not helpless in this. Make the decision now that she definitely isn't coming back because you won't let her. You won't have her back. You're looking for someone who will adore you as you are.


Yeah, I think i have to do.I hope she will try... just for the sake of saying "nah". Sounds evil?

Actually, having written that, I don't think it's true. If we deep down don't like ourselves, we look for someone who will change us, someone who's worth changing for. That's what you appear to be doing.


"I don't love you for what you are. But for what I am when I am with you." :mrgreen:
I don't know. Can we really change us? And if then we feel stress 'cause we have to act in an innatural way?
And then there are the "I left you 'cause you changed", but we know that at 90% of times it is a lie.

Your ideas about women -- that we have it easy, that we can 'get' any man we want, and that we can get from our men anything we want, are just so wrong it's not funny. Because you are young, you're not self-referring. To feel good about yourself you need approval from elsewhere. To you, approval from women seems like the pinnacle of success. I can assure you it isn't. Until you can approve of yourself, you won'r even begin to know who you are.


Not any you want... just.. i don't know how to say it... talking about her once again, even her friends are saying that she's getting guys that she doesn't deserve. They say it, not me, I don't like talk bad about her anymore (except here :p ).
Well, I can approve myself but actually will it work? I thought to be ok when i was with her but she dumped me up.
Or you meant that to do not be a jerk and approve myself? A criminal isn't ok even if he approves hiself, doesn't he?

Yes -- because she gave you a chance, and you blew it. If I remember rightly, you made a stupid joke, a hurtful one. You literally don't know how to behave around women, so you get nervous and say stupid things.

As long as you're hating yourself you will go on alienating people and looking for an identity, any identity as long as it hides you and fools other people. That must be exhausting!

If you keep beating yourself up, you'll be black and blue and people will wonder what's wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with you apart from the fact that you don't like who you are.


Yeah, I did it...
And yeah.. i didn't know that she has hormonal trouble, so she sweat a lot sometimes... So once I said to her that she stinks.. but she is passing it like if i took a microphone and said "I can barely stay close to you".
We were talking, i was so drunk and i don't what else ('cause someone gave me a cocktail but the next days i discovered that was not just alcohool), I said that she was a little bit jerk, but smiling, with bravado but letting understand that I was saying in purpose. Then she reminds me once again what i've done (after 2 months) and so I said, that she didn't care at all, and the answer was "if you think so", then I said.
"No.. I'm sorry for that. You know i felt so bad too for that" then i gave her a carees and then said "anyway you stinks" with a smile.
It was supposed to be a pricking.. but i know I have been a jerk. So the next day she attacked me on whatsapp and I didn't take it well and we had a fight, then i said that i was really sorry 'cause I couldn't know that.
Then she said that I must go faque myself, I'm worthless, i'm an idiot, I'm a stupid if i was still hoping for her and that she has definitely closed with me. I said that she saw the best and the worst of me, and if that was really what she thought. She said "Think on how is you behaviour. In my opinion you deserve this".
After two weeks I stopped her and said that she was exaggerating it, that she know that I care about her and I didn't want to hurt her that much. She said she needs time, but after 2 months she still doesn't even come close to me yet, she blocked me on whatsapp (i never annoyed her on that, and anyway we are in a common group), doesn't listen to my messages on the group, except for sometimes, and tried to put others against me. But she still whaches many of my instagram stories, and when I talk with somebody that she knows, she comes to interrupt me.

Now I think she thanking god, 'cause dumping me bring her to know these hot guys, going around to do bl##jobs, and these stupid friends that talk about her and her things when I'm with them. :|

Yeah, i have been disgusting... and it is not the first time I fall like this. Even if I had never fallen so low.

this is just a piece of the story. I linked at you the rest if i remember correctly.
I don't bet me up for hobby, just others want much more of what i have.
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