Looking to bring closure to my main problem(s)

Postby Contra » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:56 pm

I'll try to be brief and cut to the chase. If you want details, ask and I'll try to fill them in.

Nutshell - I'm 27, male, virgin, never had a gf, absolutely no experience with women, and am convinced unquestionably that all women (repeat ALL women) find me undesirable, and am equally convinced that this is unchangeable.

So - I'm here for one reason, and that is to gain information on acceptance of my situation. I would love nothing more than to forget about ever getting women/dates/sex/relationships/etc. and just live peacefully without it. But we all know how next to impossible that is for any biological being with inborn desires such as ourselves. I believe that if I can purge those desires and learn to be content without them, the rest of my inner peace will fall into place. I would like to discuss such possibilities here.

Thanks.
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:17 pm

Find a mentor.

Throughout history and among certain professions, celibacy or abstinence is the norm. Specifically there are certain spiritual practices that focus on transcending the physical.
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#2

Postby tokeless » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:39 am

Is that really what you want or what you see as your only option based on your negative view of yourself to women? As Richard has pointed out, many people live a celebut life. I believe for every nut there's a bolt, but good luck in your search for happiness.
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#3

Postby n01 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:31 pm

Contra wrote:Nutshell - I'm 27, male, virgin, never had a gf, absolutely no experience with women, and am convinced unquestionably that all women (repeat ALL women) find me undesirable, and am equally convinced that this is unchangeable..
Why, what's so wrong with you? I don't believe you when you say you are unquestionably convinced. You really believe that you couldn't possibly be wrong about that, that there couldn't possibly be some women out there who would enjoy doing things with you?? No, that's a BS belief. What has been so convincing to you? If you are so convinced, please convince me too that you are sooo undesirable. And ok your lack of success so far might be evidence, but it is not convincing evidence to me, because for instance an alternative explanation might be that actually you are inept at making connections, putting yourself out there, and not that you are undesirable. Maybe you just aren't very good at flirting or initiating?? (in which case, why are you convinced that you can't learn to improve it / improve similar things that aren't working for you?)
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#4

Postby Contra » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:56 pm

n01 wrote:Why, what's so wrong with you? I don't believe you when you say you are unquestionably convinced. You really believe that you couldn't possibly be wrong about that, that there couldn't possibly be some women out there who would enjoy doing things with you?? No, that's a BS belief. What has been so convincing to you? If you are so convinced, please convince me too that you are sooo undesirable. And ok your lack of success so far might be evidence, but it is not convincing evidence to me, because for instance an alternative explanation might be that actually you are inept at making connections, putting yourself out there, and not that you are undesirable. Maybe you just aren't very good at flirting or initiating?? (in which case, why are you convinced that you can't learn to improve it / improve similar things that aren't working for you?)

I can't really convince you other than by just telling you. You'll either believe me or you won't. I don't know any other way of stating how I know this about myself other than than I just do. A lifetime of experience being me, confirmation from others (both direct and indirect), and just looking in the mirror are ways I know. I think it's a weird question to ask because people always seem to frame it like the person can't possibly be correct in their self-perception, and it therefore must be depression talking or something like that. I know for a fact there is no woman in existence, past, future, or present) who wants anything to do with me. This is just an obvious fact in my life. It's easy to determine by my looks, my personality, and the way women/people behave toward me. There is no question.
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#5

Postby Mustafa » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:06 pm

Women love personality and brain too, not just looks. If you are ugly (as you see yourself) you should be strong, and make women desire you for your power. Goodlooking strong men is a myth. If you goodlooking, you are a weak pussy (read: weak woman). If you see yourself as ugly, you're dick. Use that. Women are not worth humiliating yourself.

How old are you?
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:35 pm

Contra wrote:[
I can't really convince you other than by just telling you. I know for a fact there is no woman in existence, past, future, or present) who wants anything to do with me. This is just an obvious fact in my life.


I see...so that you believe you are ugly is what you are comfortable defending and discussing. You lie to yourself about wanting to find a celibate path. When those options are suggested you run or ignore the discussion, because it is not what you truly want.

Fair enough.

But stop lying. Stop wasting people’s time pretending you want to find a celibate life. Stop pretending to yourself and others that you seek the comfort of accepting your physical appearance for what it is.

Be honest in what you want as dishonesty is also an ugly thing that people find unattractive.
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#7

Postby Mustafa » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:51 pm

Don't tell him Stop. Life is screwed, only liars and hypocrits (whom thinks they are good) has it well. Because their cheating. Leave him alone or be his friend. You'll get good Karma.
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#8

Postby Contra » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:30 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:I see...so that you believe you are ugly is what you are comfortable defending and discussing. You lie to yourself about wanting to find a celibate path. When those options are suggested you run or ignore the discussion, because it is not what you truly want.

Fair enough.

But stop lying. Stop wasting people’s time pretending you want to find a celibate life. Stop pretending to yourself and others that you seek the comfort of accepting your physical appearance for what it is.

Be honest in what you want as dishonesty is also an ugly thing that people find unattractive.

That seems like a hell of a lot of bombast and aggressive rhetoric from someone who is considered to be an "MVP" and has as many posts as you. Instead of straw-manning what I'm saying, why not try to really understand it?

Let me try to better explain what I mean, since it seems you've gotten the wrong idea and context. I'm not saying I would be more content accepting my appearance and situation for what it is (at least not right at the present moment). Rather, I want to try to get to the point where I can accept things the way they are and learn to be content. This is because I do not see a way of achieving the other. So I'm convinced that the only hope I have is to just try to relieve myself of the desire for romantic partnership and the various other stuff that goes along with it. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything as you seem to believe. I'm just trying to find contentment in life.
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#9

Postby Mustafa » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:53 am

Exactly.
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#10

Postby quietvoice » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:56 am

Contra wrote:Nutshell - I'm 27, male, virgin, never had a gf, absolutely no experience with women, and am convinced unquestionably that all women (repeat ALL women) find me undesirable, and am equally convinced that this is unchangeable.

You're 27 years old and no sexual experience. Did you ever consider using a prostitute? That's what they are there for—to satisfy the sexual urges of men without the man getting caught up in having a relationship with or dealing with other messy stuff from women.

Attracting a woman has to do with #1) confidence, and #2) the appearance of having made it (money/success/power) or having the potential of doing so. How does this fit in with how you think the women around you are viewing you?

Make no mistake about it, women can be bought.

Here's a 10-minute video of Jordan Peterson that the poster titled "why Women REJECT some type of GUYS."
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#11

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:31 pm

Contra wrote: I'm not saying I would be more content accepting my appearance and situation for what it is (at least not right at the present moment).


That is my point. You are currently lying to yourself. You are trying to convince yourself that you are beyond lovable, so you tell others you are 100% certain you are not lovable and ask for advice regarding how to live an unloved life.

Yet that is not the advice you actually want to discuss. Instead, your true desire is that people rally and decry how you are wrong and how certainly you can be loved. This provides you the response you wish to hear. It gives you the ammo to again lament and reinforce all the reasons you are unlovable and point out how the advice givers are wrong. You place the burden on others to prove you lovable.

Does that sound healthy? How is that downward spiral of negative reinforcement working out for you?

My advice might sound bombastic, but my advice is also accurate.

STOP seeking people to tell you that you are wrong about being unlovable. It might temporarily feel good to argue with people about your unlovable qualities, but it is not a healthy approach. All you end up doing is reinforcing your existing beliefs.

Stop lying to yourself and to others about your 100% certainty that you can’t be loved. Because the evidence is clear. If you actually were 100% certain, then the discussion would move forward to discuss the various paths people use to live a life of celibacy.
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#12

Postby n01 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:01 am

Contra wrote:I think it's a weird question to ask because people always seem to frame it like the person can't possibly be correct in their self-perception, and it therefore must be depression talking or something like that.


No, not "can't possibly be correct", and not "depression talking" [you are also strawman-ing] - I'm saying that to be CONVINCED that you are undesirble TO EVERY WOMAN as a partner, date, steady boyfriend, one-night shag, whatever... is an irrational position to take (and hence your looking only at one solution for happiness - celibacy - is also irrational). Your chief reason for your conviction seems to be what you see in the mirror, your looks, and your personality. Look, you just have to look around you and see what hideously ugly toads manage to be desirable to someone out there. Or people with a personality like wallpaper paste... someone wants them. Do you have some terrible facial disfigurement or something?? Hey well sorry that's not a reason for your conviction either... I've seen people with only half a face, or lips missing, or two heads (yes) and still they get some in the sack. So stop making phoney excuses about your looks. And personality, that's something you can work on. The way you interact with women, that's something you can work on. You're only 27 for gods sake. Come on, it's ridiculous to be convinced that celibacy is your only avenue to a possible contentment. Please open yourself to taking a fresh and (possibly?!) more rational look at the situation.
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#13

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:12 am

Hell, there are even multiple examples of conjoined (Siamese) twins that found love.
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#14

Postby Contra » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:26 am

Look, I hear and understand all of the points you all are making. I agree that there seems to be no reason in theory why I couldn't get a gf. You would think thats the case, right?
But my case is truly remarkable. I can't win, no matter what I do. All my life, I've been utterly ignored and dismissed by women. I know this sounds like a frivolous statement that anyone could say, but my case is truly special. I've been UTTERLY ignored to the point that I question my own sanity and perception that this could be real.

Any time I've ever been in public with guys I know, it's just amazing to see the attention they get, and the decisive lack of attention and shunning I get. I don't even know where to start with examples because they are endless. And It's very irritating when people offer up the same platitudes and bs you guys are saying like "look at all the ugly people who get laid" or "you gotta have the right attitude man." I've tried it all. You dont even know how much I've tried it all. None of it ever works for me. It usually backfires if anything. When I was younger I thought I just had a couple of unlucky occurrences and that things would eventually work out. But as I got older I started to realize that this kind of shunning from women wasn't just a couple of occurrences. It was just my life and how women viewed me, and it wasn't going to get any better, and indeed it hasn't.

I remember times when I'd go to the mall or out to eat with my friends and they would have girls hanging off of them by just being present. This wasn't just a few times, it's EVERY time I ever find myself in these situations. It's remarkable. Even my 73 year old dad gets flirted with aggressively by young, hot waitresses every time we go out, and I get utterly ignored. They won't even laugh at a small joke I make, but seem to hang on his every word. It's unbelievable.

Just little crap like that that never seizes to happen every day to me. I remember a time me and a friend of mine went into this restaurant that one of our other friends worked at. Apparently my friend who worked there said some good things about me to his co-workers because he's a nice guy. He had told them I play guitar well among other things (which is not true). Well anyway, we walk through the door and these two extremely hot waitresses/hostesses greeted us, and we said we were just there to see our friend who worked there. Their faces immediately lit up and they looked at the guy I walked in with and said "are you (my name)!?" and he said "no, thats him", and pointed at me. They both looked at me and their excited facial expressions quickly turned to ones of disappointment. You could almost hear them saying to themselves in their heads "oh...that's him?...eww." Now I realize after the fact that thats why they initially looked at my friend thinking he was me. I guess they were expecting a hot guy like him from the good words they heard from my friend who worked there, not some ugly pile of crap like me. The very next day I saw him with in town with that girl in the passengers seat of his truck.

It just made me want to cut my dick and balls off and say **** it. I'll never try again! Which is in fact what I'm now doing (without the cutting my privates off part). If you can imagine instances like this happening continuously and staggeringly for your entire life, then you can get why I feel the way I do. I don't want women now. I'd rather die of internal bleeding than to have anything to do with women. I'd rather stick my head in the nearest wood chipper than to have any relations with a girl. I don't f***ing want it! I'm done with the whole f***ing thing, and I'm done worrying about it. They can f***ing keep it and shove it up their a**! If they don't want me, then they shall not f***ing have me. Simple as that. There's no sum of money you could pay me to engage with women now. I'd sooner die.

So please, can we stop talking about why I asked the original question in my OP and questioning my legitimacy in making this life decision and actually address the question I originally asked? I shouldn't have to explain my reasons behind it or answer 20 questions about it. I just want to gain information on purging sexual desire because this is what I wish to do.
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