Anger

Postby Jamespoulter123 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:23 am

Hey I’m new to this but I’m finding it hard to handle my anger and taking everything out on my girlfriend. It all stems from my dad when I was a child.
Does anyone else share these issues and/or know any good routines to do to suppress the anger
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#1

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:30 pm

Hi Jamespoulter,

Welcome to the Forum. Your problem, as you seem to have guessed yourself, is kind of generic -- you take your anger out on your girlfriend because she can't expel you, fire you, and is not big enough to kick your donkey, which basically means that you see her as a safe target. It might also mean that you are really conflicted about having her as a girlfriend. You know, when I am in a relationship and I find that I'm beginning to catch a lot of attitude and snippiness, well, I take it as a hint, that the Good Stuff is over, and so I give her the "Hey babe, I'm going to the corner store for a pack of smokes... I'll be right back", and then put three suitecases and a steamer trunk in my car and split and never look back. Honestly, that is what your girlfriend should do to you. Admit it, you're tired of her, right? . And your anger role model was your father. Okay, but whose father was a Saint? It really doesn't mean anything, right?

But, there ARE answers. James, have you taken a look at anything in this Forum. 8 Posts out of 10 deal with Moderate Levels of Chronic Anger. I have written hundreds of responses and many of them are different renditions of basically the same song. You know, I am not going to spend 3 hours writing you a detailed response, when your own post was just a tweet, right. So, James, do your homework, and read about 20 of the posts below... or enough of them until you more less can guess what I would say to you if I thought you were worth the time, right?
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#2

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 17, 2019 2:51 am

Jamespoulter123 wrote:Hey I’m new to this but I’m finding it hard to handle my anger and taking everything out on my girlfriend. It all stems from my dad when I was a child.
Does anyone else share these issues and/or know any good routines to do to suppress the anger


Literally one of the worst things you could do in this case, is not to deal with it. Talk about why you react the way you do. Anger can be really damaging
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#3

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 17, 2019 3:18 am

To be clear, I totally understand how hard it must be, but this sort of approach can wreak havoc on your relationship
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#4

Postby Candid » Fri May 17, 2019 2:54 pm

Jamespoulter123 wrote:It all stems from my dad when I was a child.
Does anyone else share these issues and/or know any good routines to do to suppress the anger


Don't suppress it, James. Whatever the issue is with your father, I guarantee there's a counsellor who can help you deal with it.
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#5

Postby alwaysask » Sun May 26, 2019 7:52 pm

Leo Volont wrote:Hi Jamespoulter,

Welcome to the Forum. Your problem, as you seem to have guessed yourself, is kind of generic -- you take your anger out on your girlfriend because she can't expel you, fire you, and is not big enough to kick your donkey, which basically means that you see her as a safe target. It might also mean that you are really conflicted about having her as a girlfriend. You know, when I am in a relationship and I find that I'm beginning to catch a lot of attitude and snippiness, well, I take it as a hint, that the Good Stuff is over, and so I give her the "Hey babe, I'm going to the corner store for a pack of smokes... I'll be right back", and then put three suitecases and a steamer trunk in my car and split and never look back. Honestly, that is what your girlfriend should do to you. Admit it, you're tired of her, right? . And your anger role model was your father. Okay, but whose father was a Saint? It really doesn't mean anything, right?

But, there ARE answers. James, have you taken a look at anything in this Forum. 8 Posts out of 10 deal with Moderate Levels of Chronic Anger. I have written hundreds of responses and many of them are different renditions of basically the same song. You know, I am not going to spend 3 hours writing you a detailed response, when your own post was just a tweet, right. So, James, do your homework, and read about 20 of the posts below... or enough of them until you more less can guess what I would say to you if I thought you were worth the time, right?



Wow to the above comment.

James I don't have much to contribute here but the poster who I have quoted above seems to have some anger issues of their own. Quite a passive aggressive reply if I do say so myself. However there were some comments from the poster I believe are valid. I'll note them specifically with some comments on where I feel that poster fell short:

1." you take your anger out on your girlfriend because she can't expel you, fire you, and is not big enough to kick your donkey, which basically means that you see her as a safe target."

This is quite often something us humans are guilty of. Feeling too comfortable with someone who is very familiar and allowing that to affect how well we treat them. I don't know if this is the situation with your relationship but it's is a nugget worth considering. If it's not the case, let's move to the next thing I agree with from Leo Volont.

2. "It might also mean that you are really conflicted about having her as a girlfriend."

This is also a possibility. I find myself tending towards letting lose more readily when I'm already questioning a relationship and the person does something overt that reminds me of those questions or concerns. If this is the case, I would see a councilor (one who listens as opposed to someone who just wants to put you in a box so they can move on to the next paycheck [I mean patient]).

3. "You know, when I am in a relationship and I find that I'm beginning to catch a lot of attitude and snippiness, well, I take it as a hint, that the Good Stuff is over, and so I give her the "Hey babe, I'm going to the corner store for a pack of smokes... I'll be right back", and then put three suitecases and a steamer trunk in my car and split and never look back. Honestly, that is what your girlfriend should do to you."

I was pretty shocked to read this. It hits some level of common sense in the context of a new relationship where the two are still in the stage of getting to know each other, but this idea of "the good stuff is over, time to move on" is a demonstration that the above poster probably doesn't understand how relationships work. The "good stuff" always ends. The period of feeling wild and crazy emotions of love and desire about the person is what has been called "the honeymooning period." Most relationships cool down and get a little more real as time moves on. So when the quoted poster says "and then put three suitecases and a steamer trunk in my car and split and never look back" it seems more sensational than realistic. Ditching a person without a conversation is pretty toxic behavior unless you are in a situation where your well being is threatened. If your gf just left the way the poster said, that would potentially create room for grudges and a lack of closure to become festering wounds for the both of you. And let me be clear, if you've been taking it to the next level of anger "regularly" and have been abusive, then that reaction may be somewhat unavoidable. However, it is often the case that anger presents problems in perfectly healthy relationships so going ghost on the person (or in this case, being willing to get ghosted) isn't really a universal answer. It only works in some situations, and from what you have said in your original post, it doesn't seem like you are necessarily at one of those situations. Also, kudos for recognizing where the anger stems from. Knowing that those close to you affected who you became as you grew up is a great thing. Most people don't have the ability to even acknowledge there is a problem to be understood so good on you for making the effort to face the issue and it's root.

4. "Admit it, you're tired of her, right? . And your anger role model was your father. Okay, but whose father was a Saint? It really doesn't mean anything, right?"

That comment was a complete joke. Particularly the bit about "Okay, but whose father was a Saint? It really doesn't mean anything, right?"
This is complete non-sense. There are plenty of people with good sensible fathers. And then there are people with fathers who just didn't pay attention to their actions or care about the affects for that matter. If you had a father who had these qualities, chances are you are correct about how it affected you. People who had a father without anger issues would in the same manner, be affected by their father's ability to NOT get angry. Why the quoted poster said this I really don't know, but they are clearly not correct and furthermore would probably do well to try and repeat the same thing in front of a developmental psychologist.

5. "But, there ARE answers. James, have you taken a look at anything in this Forum. 8 Posts out of 10 deal with Moderate Levels of Chronic Anger. I have written hundreds of responses and many of them are different renditions of basically the same song. You know, I am not going to spend 3 hours writing you a detailed response, when your own post was just a tweet, right. So, James, do your homework, and read about 20 of the posts below... or enough of them until you more less can guess what I would say to you if I thought you were worth the time, right?"

This comment is the most telling of the quoted poster's attitude. From this I get that the poster was annoyed because they have spent way too much time dishing out their "advice" on this forum and feel frustrated with anyone who hasn't bothered to go read everything they wrote. Their comment ends with another passive aggressive dig about you being worth the time. Sad when people give advice in this way
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#6

Postby Leo Volont » Mon May 27, 2019 12:22 am

Hi Alwaysask,

Wow, man, the Original Post was 50 words (I counted them). The guy did not give much detail, but I felt it polite to answer something. and so I answered in broad generalities and universal truths (one being that if both you and your girlfriend are acting like you hate each other then you probably hate each other and it is time to move on, right?) BUT I did go on to tell him that if he wanted GOOD advice, then there was plenty to be had, and he only had to keep reading.

Also, since I finally broke down and got a Smart Phone to replace my old clam-shell, it occurred to me that a lot of people are probably THUMBING in their posts on their phone. that would be fine if they would buckle down and just keep going until they really explain themselves. But Thumbs are not nearly as loquacious as Tongues... or all TEN on a QWERTY Keyboard. I'd like to give long Particular and Empathetic Replies to even those who give the vaguest hints, but it simply is like shooting in the Dark.; Also, As I Told the Guy, and as you must have read, his problem is really Generic. The guy's problem is NOT unique. He probably even LIVES in a pigeon hole. SO just look down the POSTS and read every one that also seems GENERIC. Alwaysask, did you bother to read any Posts? My more complete posts would put my more general comments into context. I DISCUSS relationships at length ELSEWHERE. My viewpoint on Relationships and Angry People is that they are doomed. Anger Poisons the Well. Angry people need to take time and fix themselves. Also, it is a bitter truth, but people who have known you when you were Angry will never really trust you not to blow up again. Angry people need to Fix Themselves and THEN MOVE... RELOCATE... START OVER... and that means SOMEWHERE ELSE. Any old girlfriend that is half afraid of you would only be BAGGAGE, right?

Also, the FATHER thing. Alwaysask, I am coming at Anger Management from the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Model. People talking about their Childhood is just chitchat. It is the Ultimate SO WHAT. "I am angry because my daddy beat me". Okay, SO WHAT!? Anger Managment is not served by LOOKING FOR EXCUSES. "My Daddy Beat Me" is just an excuse. In Cognitive Terms one would advise "You gotta quit thinking that boolschittt Father stuff, because it doesn't help". In Cognitive terms one should always be thinking "What is my Plan here and now... what will help me and what will hurt me". People have to shake off Emotional Reactions and Automatic thinking... oh, until they create an Inventory of Helpful Automatic Thoughts. But mostly all of our Past Conditioning and Instincts have to be worked on, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH DADDY.

Oh, Alwaysask, about your last comment. Well, take a look at the Posting History of this Forum. It really does seem that MOST People now DO read down the Posts before posting comments and come to the determination that they really don't need to post anything, and can just take Advise that already exists. AND, about being Super Friendly. Well, I've tried that, and the problem with being Super Friendly is that one Makes Friends. And 'Friends' want to write in and chit chat all the time... ALL the time. But I'm busy. SO I really DO need to create some distance, right? What about YOU? do you NEED more friends? APPARENTLY!
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#7

Postby alwaysask » Mon May 27, 2019 1:19 am

Leo Volont wrote:Hi Alwaysask,

Wow, man, the Original Post was 50 words (I counted them). The guy did not give much detail, but I felt it polite to answer something. and so I answered in broad generalities and universal truths (one being that if both you and your girlfriend are acting like you hate each other then you probably hate each other and it is time to move on, right?) BUT I did go on to tell him that if he wanted GOOD advice, then there was plenty to be had, and he only had to keep reading.

Also, since I finally broke down and got a Smart Phone to replace my old clam-shell, it occurred to me that a lot of people are probably THUMBING in their posts on their phone. that would be fine if they would buckle down and just keep going until they really explain themselves. But Thumbs are not nearly as loquacious as Tongues... or all TEN on a QWERTY Keyboard. I'd like to give long Particular and Empathetic Replies to even those who give the vaguest hints, but it simply is like shooting in the Dark.; Also, As I Told the Guy, and as you must have read, his problem is really Generic. The guy's problem is NOT unique. He probably even LIVES in a pigeon hole. SO just look down the POSTS and read every one that also seems GENERIC. Alwaysask, did you bother to read any Posts? My more complete posts would put my more general comments into context. I DISCUSS relationships at length ELSEWHERE. My viewpoint on Relationships and Angry People is that they are doomed. Anger Poisons the Well. Angry people need to take time and fix themselves. Also, it is a bitter truth, but people who have known you when you were Angry will never really trust you not to blow up again. Angry people need to Fix Themselves and THEN MOVE... RELOCATE... START OVER... and that means SOMEWHERE ELSE. Any old girlfriend that is half afraid of you would only be BAGGAGE, right?

Also, the FATHER thing. Alwaysask, I am coming at Anger Management from the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Model. People talking about their Childhood is just chitchat. It is the Ultimate SO WHAT. "I am angry because my daddy beat me". Okay, SO WHAT!? Anger Managment is not served by LOOKING FOR EXCUSES. "My Daddy Beat Me" is just an excuse. In Cognitive Terms one would advise "You gotta quit thinking that boolschittt Father stuff, because it doesn't help". In Cognitive terms one should always be thinking "What is my Plan here and now... what will help me and what will hurt me". People have to shake off Emotional Reactions and Automatic thinking... oh, until they create an Inventory of Helpful Automatic Thoughts. But mostly all of our Past Conditioning and Instincts have to be worked on, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH DADDY.

Oh, Alwaysask, about your last comment. Well, take a look at the Posting History of this Forum. It really does seem that MOST People now DO read down the Posts before posting comments and come to the determination that they really don't need to post anything, and can just take Advise that already exists. AND, about being Super Friendly. Well, I've tried that, and the problem with being Super Friendly is that one Makes Friends. And 'Friends' want to write in and chit chat all the time... ALL the time. But I'm busy. SO I really DO need to create some distance, right? What about YOU? do you NEED more friends? APPARENTLY!


Oh come on! I understand maintaining distance but geeez. Was all that really needed? How do you know who this person is, what their circumstances are, how much time they have to read through all the posts or even their ability to focus in the face of being distressed? I like most of what I've seen from you but this? Not even a little understanding for my concern?
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#8

Postby Candid » Mon May 27, 2019 6:51 am

Leo Volont wrote:People talking about their Childhood is just chitchat. It is the Ultimate SO WHAT. "I am angry because my daddy beat me". Okay, SO WHAT!? Anger Managment is not served by LOOKING FOR EXCUSES. "My Daddy Beat Me" is just an excuse.


Butting in to take issue with this.

Bad parenting causes psychological problems, unquestionably -- and there's a lot of it about. Naturally these problems are intergenerational.

Pete Walker is The Man for this.

"Many survivors of traumatizing families grew up in houses that were not homes - in families that were as loveless as orphanages and sometimes as dangerous." ~ http://pete-walker.com/

I agree with alwaysask that our Leo is not as chilled as he'd like us to believe. And as for saying "read my previous posts" without providing any links to those he considers apposite... Really, why bother to reply?
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#9

Postby Leo Volont » Mon May 27, 2019 9:16 pm

Candid wrote:
Leo Volont wrote:People talking about their Childhood is just chitchat. It is the Ultimate SO WHAT. "I am angry because my daddy beat me". Okay, SO WHAT!? Anger Managment is not served by LOOKING FOR EXCUSES. "My Daddy Beat Me" is just an excuse.


Butting in to take issue with this.

Bad parenting causes psychological problems, unquestionably -- and there's a lot of it about. Naturally these problems are intergenerational.

Pete Walker is The Man for this.

"Many survivors of traumatizing families grew up in houses that were not homes - in families that were as loveless as orphanages and sometimes as dangerous." ~ http://pete-walker.com/

I agree with alwaysask that our Leo is not as chilled as he'd like us to believe. And as for saying "read my previous posts" without providing any links to those he considers apposite... Really, why bother to reply?


Hi Candid,

Yeah, I know that Anger is the product of conditioning and modeling. Its a wonderful insight, but, again, SO WHAT!? As far as the WORK of anger management goes, it is a waste of time, a distraction. You know, Anger, as an Emotion, doesn't wreck relationships or get people fired. It is Anger as a hostile aggressive frightening and intimidating Behavior that causes the trouble. So we should first target the Behavior. You know, You Got To Stop Doing That. But, what DOES cause the Emotion. Well, in many ways, that is Cognitive. People egg themselves on. People have horrendously maladaptive Internal Dialogue. People can Hear Themselves, right? First, Don't Listen to yourself when you are thinking that Crap. Second, you need to Think Differently. Now, what does Daddy have to do with any of that? You should know this Candid.

And, about referring to my Posts. Candid. Are you Speed Reading? Are you Scanning. Nobody reads with attention. Everybody scans. I could skip every third word and who would notice. But what I said was his problem was Generic. Almost EVERY POST covers the same stuff. AND, I don't cut and paste these things. I write afresh. I try to apply by case by case basis. Also it is good practice to restate my argumnents, so I know what exactly it IS that I think. So, I would WANT the Guy to Read. If he doesn't want to read 10 or 20 Threads, then how can we help him anyway.

Candid, we won't help anybody with Anger who isn't ready to take on A LOT of WORK. You know that. Also, you probably realize that We Can Judge Character. I honestly thought the guy was beyond hope. But if he did read a bunch of posts and came back with a question, then GREAT, I'm wrong about him. But, as it turned out, he disappeared. Well, that's what I thought, right? So it is good I did not spin my wheels for nothing. I know, it is easy to lecture me, but look at my Posts and look at yours. Who spends more time? You should think about that before you get all Up on your High Horse Judgmental. Remember, that is how you were with your co-workers .... from job to job to job. We're on the same Team Candid. .
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#10

Postby Candid » Tue May 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Leo Volont wrote:I honestly thought the guy was beyond hope. But if he did read a bunch of posts and came back with a question, then GREAT, I'm wrong about him. But, as it turned out, he disappeared. Well, that's what I thought, right?


It was his first post and he got an unfriendly reply. That's all it takes to scare off a newchum.

When you haven't got time to reply individually, probably best to leave it alone.

Remember, that is how you were with your co-workers .... from job to job to job.


You're confusing me with someone else.
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#11

Postby Leo Volont » Tue May 28, 2019 10:31 pm

Hi Candid,

Yeah, with so many people I do often get confounded.... sorry about that.

Oh, and then I recently had a kind of Revelation, and that is that 'People are probably thumbing in their posts on their telephones'. This keeps their posts short... although I've seen many Texters who write with their thumbs go just as quickly as I go on QWERTY keyboard, and so this should not necessarily hold them down to a clueless brevity. BUT, what I understood at the time was to NOT be so exasperated with people for being so cluelessly short in their posts.

But, there is also the, well, treat it as a fact, that I am largely pessimistic about the capacity for most people to deal with their anger and fix themselves. It takes Work and Dedication. Sometimes we get a New Member that seems capable of that kind of Work and Dedication and so we jump in and support it. But in most cases, well, I ostensibly write a REPLY fo the Poster, but I am, by my intent, writing to the People who will value by it. yes, now that I think about it, even while keeping my reply short, I should have fleshed my arguments out by at least a few more sentences, not for the sake of the Poster who I slotted as 'hopeless' but others who will read down the Posts, to give them a better idea of my Anger Management Assumptions ( the First... your Relationship is ALREADY screwed, and the most you can hope for is "I got a problem with my Anger, and the best thing now is to save you from it. I will work on it, and it might take a year or two or never. If you want to wait, fine, but maybe you should just move on") . And the whole Cognitive Behavioral Position on Psychoanalytical Explanations as Excuses and Distractions. People's Lives aren't Jane Austin novels where they are trying to understand themselves like a character in a book. Their Lives are their Lives and if they have a Problem, well, FIX IT. I believe in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy not because it is a high minded Ideology but because at the Nuts and Bolts Level, It Works.

But, yeah, I was too gruff with that guy, wasn't I. It is NOT just that guy who will read it. I have to remember I am writing for our wider audience.
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#12

Postby Candid » Tue May 28, 2019 10:50 pm

Aw Leo, I know you're really just a big ol' cat-lovin' softie.
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#13

Postby Leo Volont » Wed May 29, 2019 4:50 am

Candid wrote:Aw Leo, I know you're really just a big ol' cat-lovin' softie.


Oh, Yeah, Candid, I got two more.

This little 4 or 5 week Siamese had gotten to my door somehow (I live in the tropics and so the door stays ajar in the evenings.) I saw it and said ... I think I even said it a loud, "Damn! I love Siameses". It took 3 days to make sure it wouldn't die or lose its eye to an infection, but from then on, its been just a little demon. Tommy. Then there had already been a cute little Calico Girl kitten outside. But she was SO cute that my neighbors were all feeding her, or parents giving in to their children to feed her something. I had made a few overtures to her, but since she was so universally spoiled, she didn't see what had to offer SO SCREW HER. I also feed the pigeons (the Island lost all their own native species, so thank god for pigeons, the Bird of the Universe) up on the balcony, but She would come up for the excitement of chasing them, and I would chase her away with a very serious broom. But as the months wore on, well, her charm with the neighbors slowly evaporated, and she was reduced to coming to my door for food. Well, Well Well ..... if left to herself too much longer she would have kittens out there. So I put food in a pet carrier and slammed the door on her and took her to the Doctor. Then home. At first, she camped by the door. I put a pretty collar on her from decades ago (Nora Bora's jeweled collar... she is a Black Cat and she was my 'date' to a Halloween Party a decade ago when she was still just a Big Kitten, but Calico Peggy had enough Black in her to make the Look work). Before going in and out to feed the pigeons I would clasp a leash onto her collar. But on about her 3rd day I forgot and she got past me and out the door. some cats choose to be outdoor cats. But that evening, before the sun set, I saw her come around the corner into the parking lot and I yelled "Pretty Girl" (Peggy would come later as I tried to think of a better Furever name for her than Pretty Girl, and Peggy seemed to contain enough of the same sounds), and she just nonchalantly came up the stairs and into the apartment, and has not had outdoor issues since. It turns out is was lucky for both Peggy and Tommy. They are both close to the same age -- Big Kittens and so they have a lot of fun together. Big Bear Roary, a Ginger Tom who had been my last Big Kitten, but he is 4 now, took it horribly, but now after about 6 months, he has finally adjusted back to where we had been before, with him being REALLY sweet. There was the Oddest Thing, with Roary. Even when Tommy was little and Sick, Roary would hiss like crazy. I thought Roary would surely kill it, then I remembered that Noisy Aggression in Cats is entirely Defensive and Avoidant. Unless you back one into a corner, a hissing cat won't bite. Apparently Domestic Cats Evolved to inhibit aggression towards kittens (one can't Shock the Humans by killing the litttle ones). So even as Tommy grew older, Roary's aggression was inhibited but not all that hissing. Tommy would take advantage by attacking Roary whose only option was to retreat. Now, Thank God for Peggy. It seems that SHE proved more than Tommy's match (surprising! That thing seems like a born little Ninja Assassin) So Tommy is Afraid of Her. But SHE is Afraid of Roary (he's SO Big!). Well, Roary must have had an Epiphany, that it makes no sense for him to be Afraid of Tommy who is Afraid of Peggy who is Afraid of him, and so FINALLY he must have Bit the Heck out of Tommy to make him stop all his unwelcomed aggressions. Tommy DID only want to play, and Peggy plays just fine. Seeing her come around was interesting. She at first was conserving energy (they don't eat well outside) but she soon learned that she had energy to burn. At first she fought Tommy FOR REAL but soon figured out that it would be fun to just play. You can tell it is play when there is NO NOISE. She will get in a few good swats and then you can almost see that she is holding still for a flurry of Tommy's Ninja blows... probably thinking that he won't play unless it is fun for him too. So, yeah, another two cats... which means I should commit to living another 15 to 20 years. Well, I will try to do my best. But they found my door. They might have to find another before it is over for them too. You take care Candid.
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