ahimsa42 wrote:… the only thing i could accept (but most definitely not relate to) is that perhaps because the subject agrees to be put into such a state they are willingly tricking themselves into forgetting their name or how to count. perhaps moontress or someone else who has experienced it can comment on this. the question is then, what is the difference between agreeing to play along and being forced and unable to resist doing so?
This is why I joined the conversation, not to say "I don't see any problem with it", which would not have been much of a contribution. I think your concern is a very valid one – it *is* disturbing that someone could come along and hypnotise you without your consent, and that you would then follow instructions you wouldn’t otherwise want to follow. I don’t believe hypnosis is 100% harmless and I am cautious about what I allow into my own subconscious on anything other than a temporary basis.
In the example I gave, "willingly tricking myself" is accurate; what I did in that situation was to deliberately step into the hypnotist's frame and allow what he said to become my reality. So when he told me (in trance) to erase the number 4 from a blackboard, to imagine that the 3 and the 5 shifted towards each other to close the gap and then suggested that what I had erased had ceased to exist, I accepted this suggestion as my reality. What was so funny and interesting to me, after I emerged from the trance, was I knew perfectly well it was a trick and yet it worked, the number had gone. I found it fun but I didn’t really do this primarily for entertainment, I did it to experience it, as I found the fact that my mind could work in that way, fascinating. Yes, I willingly let myself be tricked. I’m not a big control freak, I’m curious. I gave my explicit consent to this though; which is relevant to your concern.
(Personally, I’d never volunteer for a stage show. I’m suggestible and would certainly go into hypnosis, but since I am very introvert and not exhibitionistic, I’d be a boring, passive subject of no entertainment value, and get sent back to my seat.)
But on the topic of being able to resist hypnosis, interestingly I’ve recently had someone try to hypnotise me covertly, without first obtaining my consent. I’ve been in formal trance upwards of 500 times in the past year, so I’m conditioned, I know the feeling of going into hypnosis well and do so with ease. I resisted this attempt quite easily, and upon reflection, I can think of two possible reasons, both *because* of my trance experience.
The hypnotherapist I mentioned earlier gave me some trigger words for self-hypnosis (and for subsequent sessions with her) which, when I say or even just think them, with the intention of going into trance, will take me there. They’re ordinary words, one is “deep”, which I have spoken about in another thread here in the sub-forum. Significantly, she qualified them with “when it is safe and appropriate”. If I were to stand in a long supermarket queue and think “I’d rather be deep in trance right now”, or someone said that to me, nothing would happen; it’s neither safe nor appropriate. This “assessment” phrase (even without the triggers) has become so embedded in my mind, that even though I can enter trance easily when I choose to do so, I’m extra discerning about *when* it is 'safe and appropriate'. With this guy’s attempt, it was neither, so with or without triggers, just that phrase in my mind seemed to help “guard the door”, so to speak.
But I think there’s another reason why I was able to resist it. There’s a collection of tapes I listen to, where the hypnotist uses the phrase “feel the tug – and follow it down”. That “tug” is the feeling of being “pulled” into trance (some call it ‘going under’ which term I don’t much like; I think you ‘go into’, not ‘under’). While this guy was talking to me, even though I forget now what wording he used, I felt that tug come up in me. Because I’d felt and followed it down so many times, I was able to identify it the instant I felt it and become aware that the guy was attempting to hypnotise me. It was a fun and interesting conversation we were having (about hypnosis), and I was listening openly but even though the attempt wasn’t sinister, I *didn’t want* to go into hypnosis then and didn’t like the sneakiness of it, as I didn’t know him well. The moment I felt the tug, I called him on it, saying “you’re trying to hypnotise me now, stop”. He denied it, but in a subsequent conversation, admitted to it. We ended up having several long, fascinating hypnosis discussions after I’d made it clear we weren’t going there. In this case, it was the ability to feel that tug immediately, that alerted me and made me able to resist it.
(All the above said, if a skilled hypnotist like Anthony Jacquin approached me and used a rapid or instant/shock induction, I’d likely drop into trance right away, as he follows the diversion of attention with an virtually simultaneous deepener (rocking), which you see in his videos. What I can do, would be no match for that.)
As an aside, I don’t know what kind of meditation you have done, but back when I did it, our teacher, (from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition) taught us to develop “observer consciousness”. I don’t know if a well-developed observer consciousness in an experienced meditator, might “watch out” for one? If that consciousness is the same or different from conscious awareness? Just throwing that in the mix, perhaps you, Jimmy can comment on that?
ahimsa42 wrote:to me, being in control of my own faculties at all times is far more desirable than having an interesting experience and not being in control. i guess this is one of the big reasons i never drank alcohol or took drugs.[...]
[...] just as i cannot see why people would want to get drunk and act silly, i can't see why anyone would find it entertaining to be put into an incapacitated state where they cannot think or reason for themselves.
Hopefully that has been answered. Some would, some wouldn’t. I cannot, for the life of me, relate to why on earth anyone would voluntarily eat jalapeno peppers that burn their mouths to the point of pain and streaming eyes, and then again in the other end, I'm told. And pay good money for it!
ahimsa42 wrote:good question. i would most certainly feel very foolish & ashamed if that were the case but not sure what i could do, if anything, with the information gained from such an experience.
I’m also curious about this question Jimmy posed and your answer that you wouldn’t know what to do with the information. You say you’d feel foolish and ashamed and find it most disturbing that you could lose your autonomy in this way. Yes, it would shock and shake you to find this within yourself. But, if anything, holding on to control too tightly, makes you more vulnerable. A person is stronger for knowing where their weaknesses lie. If you read what all the wisest people throughout history have written or said, they admit that control and autonomy are illusions.
Jimmy's already said it:
jimmyh wrote: Worldview changes usually aren't *comfortable*, but they can be exciting and leave you with more capabilities on the other side. In this case, you'd be looking for things like "improved control and meta-control in situations where your control might not have been as good as you'd thought" as well as "ability to lean on others and allow them to influence you when it is beneficial to do so".
I think you (Jimmy) have also written that a mindset which leaves some room for possible failure, is a more stable one? In your blog, iirc? It stuck in my mind. That's a form of control.
And I really would love to hear your comments on all of this, ahimsa.
