dynomite alarm clock

Postby rewriting » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:25 pm

Hi all,
I'm new here. Have been studying anger management for about a year off and on. Not getting the results I need. I feel really out of control.
I have a history of anger since about age 12. Adopted at birth and was mad at myself and the world for a long time about it. I'm 27 now. My girlfriend and I have been yelling at each other for most of the past year and I've started breaking things... A lot. We've pushed each other around in our fights though I've been tempering that urge lately as I'm really doing anything I can to get better. I was also hitting walls and the dash of our car when mad, and I have chronic illness due to long term mold exposure so even though I put holes in things, my hand breaks more every time. I'm starting to notice the shape of my hand has changed and my knuckles bend differently.
Self preservation is always important but I'm mainly concerned about the effect I'm having on my partner. She and I have similar histories of abuse trauma growing up. I have been trying to help her with her own struggles with depression and anxiety and I think my rage is making her mental health even worse.
It's been a hard year for us both, on top of our dynamic we have had health issues throughout, major injuries, have lost friends to overdose and had to move all over the state looking for work and a decent place to live. The solutions were working towards right now are therapy, couples counseling, and hypnosis.
We love each other a lot, but we're both afraid of the violence escalating any further. I need some more direct support people in my life who get it and I'm reaching out here hoping to find some like minds with skills to help me save myself and my partnership. For now were setting ourselves up to be on retreat at home, lots of space and meeting all our own needs until we both feel a bit more grounded. I have all the time in the world to chat with anyone who is open, and I'd love to reciprocate and hear what others have going on.
Please feel free to share any feedback or ideas, I'm wide open.
Thank you
Kai
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#1

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:20 am

rewriting wrote:Hi all,
I'm new here. Have been studying anger management for about a year off and on. Not getting the results I need. I feel really out of control.
I have a history of anger since about age 12. Adopted at birth and was mad at myself and the world for a long time about it. I'm 27 now. My girlfriend and I have been yelling at each other for most of the past year and I've started breaking things... A lot. We've pushed each other around in our fights though I've been tempering that urge lately as I'm really doing anything I can to get better. I was also hitting walls and the dash of our car when mad, and I have chronic illness due to long term mold exposure so even though I put holes in things, my hand breaks more every time. I'm starting to notice the shape of my hand has changed and my knuckles bend differently.
Self preservation is always important but I'm mainly concerned about the effect I'm having on my partner. She and I have similar histories of abuse trauma growing up. I have been trying to help her with her own struggles with depression and anxiety and I think my rage is making her mental health even worse.
It's been a hard year for us both, on top of our dynamic we have had health issues throughout, major injuries, have lost friends to overdose and had to move all over the state looking for work and a decent place to live. The solutions were working towards right now are therapy, couples counseling, and hypnosis.
We love each other a lot, but we're both afraid of the violence escalating any further. I need some more direct support people in my life who get it and I'm reaching out here hoping to find some like minds with skills to help me save myself and my partnership. For now were setting ourselves up to be on retreat at home, lots of space and meeting all our own needs until we both feel a bit more grounded. I have all the time in the world to chat with anyone who is open, and I'd love to reciprocate and hear what others have going on.
Please feel free to share any feedback or ideas, I'm wide open.
Thank you
Kai

Hi Rewriting (Kai),

Sorry I took so long to see your post (I wish I could find the menu to alert me about New Posts). So, you have been studying Anger Management for a year now. Are you familiar with the works of Ronald Efron-Potter, a PhD who has written a number of popular books on Anger Management topics as well as a Textbook. But, here is a trick that you won’t see in print, but may have been implied in the Efron-Potter’s book “the Angry Brain”. You know how there is a hormone, Cortisol, that is produced inside of the Brain, by the amygdala I believe, which fires up the entire endocrine system to get the body in full Fight of Flight mode. Well, Potter cited the problem here for Anger Management, in that the Amygdala is found to start pumping Cortisol up to a few seconds before the Brains Higher Function in the Cerebral Cortex are even aware of a Trigger (if you find yourself asking yourself “Did she just insult me?”… well, you’re Amygdala already ‘answered’ before you had time to ask the question). We can see the problem here in that we are already Physiologically ‘Angry’ before our Thinking Brain has a chance to deal with it. Also, the Fight and Flight Reaction diverts mental resources away from the Higher Functions and focusses on the Cerebellum and all the essential Run Like Heck or Kill or Be Killed kinetic circuits. You have experience this as experiencing yourself being in a Rage but not seeming to have any control over yourself. You don’t. Anyway, what I have found is THAT THE FIRST SIGN OF A CORTISOL RUSH IS A TIGHTENING OF THE JAW, OR A CLENCHING OF THE TEETH. If you can catch that initial reflexive clenching, and RELAX it as that exact moment, THEN you will Shut Down the Cortisol Rush. Really. You can practice by picking up a pin or a needle in the right hand and going to stab our left hand… for most people if you contemplate going “ 1 2 3 Stab “ then on about 3.8 you will feel the Cortisol locking your jaw – RELAX go “Whoooo That was Close” and breath through your mouth. One of our members wrote in and said she found this Insight very effective and told me that as long as she can Keep Her Mouth Open and breath through her mouth, she won’t Blow Up. This Practice should put a stop to the Wall Punching. Oh! And never Cuss! I believe that Cussing and Swearing may mask the Jaw Tightening. You know, when you let out a loud expletive, aren’t you admitting, or I suspect INITIATING a Cortisol Trigger. Try it for a while. Not cussing helps you stay calm. It is not that you are Calm because you do not cuss. It is that by not cussing you remain Calm. Cussing is like breaking the damn. Cussing is like throwing the torch atop a grass hut. Plus it is great practice. It will give you something tangible to work on.

Oh, but if you are chronically under stress (do you grind your teeth? Do you have that Jaw Pain affliction TMJ?), then you’re Amygdala may be ‘leaky’ as though it is always a little bit turned on. If this is the case, you REALLY need to NOT let it go full bore Triggered. To get back to normal, well, you have to BE normal. Oh, another member pointed out that her Jaw tightens up when she is showing physical affection. I have six cats, and after she pointed that out, I realized that my jaw will tighten up when a cat jumps up and turns into a real little snuggle bug. Well, then too. Cortisol Good or Cortisol Bad is still Cortisol, and you need to let the Amygdala know that It is on Vacation.

I’m really glad that you have been studying. Oh, then why are you still being triggered. What books have you been reading? The basis for all the really good anger management books is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The idea there is that most of our Angry Behavior arises because of Conditioned Triggers. So we need to observe our Behaviors, and any time we notice a Behavior that has negative consequences for us, well, we should aske ourselves “ Well, why the phuque did I just do that?” If you can identify the Trigger, then work with it by Rehearsing a more positive Response. For instance, if when somebody says “Phuque You!” and you are triggered into responding “Oh Yeah! Well Phuque you too”, then you need to rehearse something like “Excuse me!?” I was able to totally recondition myself for driving. A lot of angry people are angry drivers and get triggered over everything, but now, instead of cursing or hitting the horn, I do a full Situational Awareness 360 Degree Safety Scan, and in the second or two it takes to do that, the moment has passed.

Oh! I noticed something else. The Less You Say The Better. Whenever you get into a dramatic discussion, which may only be borderline angry, well, the mind returns to it with all those “I should have said this and that’s”. Yeah, that does show that there had been some Cortisol Release (the aftermath of a cortisol rush is that your mind is preoccupied with the situation – the angry episode, or, if the Cortisol was Triggered for a Valid Survival Reason, then you keep re-living being chased by the bear.) Anyway, I have found that Silence is Golden. If you engage with dialogue, then for the next 6 hours you will be replaying the tape over and over again. But, even if you ARE insulted, offended and humiliated, if you simply do not react dramatically, and just let it go, THEN, well, the situation will just seem to evaporate. You don’t have to take the bait.

Oh, but more on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. In regards to getting triggered, some of us pre-dispose ourselves to be triggered by engaging in a negative train of Internal Dialogue – people are silently grumbling and complaining about everything. SO, not only do we have to Observe and Review our Behaviors, but we need to monitor our Internal Dialogue. Yes, that has been Conditioned too. Our thinking is mostly Habitual. SO, the books tell us to Engage in Dispute. The Internal Dialogue can have Two Voices. You need to learn that you can Answer Yourself. People say that we need to be “True to ourselves”…. “Just be yourself”. Well, after Cognitive Behavioral Training, one says to that “Who’s that?” By re-directing our Conditioning and re-establishing new Mental Habits and a more positive Internal Dialogue, we can change who we are.

Oh, Kai, forgive me for not proofreading this mess. I have a test tomorrow (I’m an Old Man studying for a second degree). I’ve written a lot of Posts in response to angry people on this Forum. Go down the line and read some of these Threads, and you will get a good idea. But, this is a good one (if I had time to edit it) because I was able to assume you already knew enough to follow what I’m saying. Good Luck. Let us know how it’s going.
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#2

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 17, 2019 2:50 am

What kind of anger management are you studying?
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#3

Postby Leo Volont » Fri May 17, 2019 11:08 am

James_Lee wrote:What kind of anger management are you studying?


Hi James, to whom are you speaking?
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#4

Postby RobertSteenkamp » Tue May 28, 2019 1:32 pm

Hi Kai,

Thank you for sharing. :D
I also hit the wall, with my anger issues.

I lost my girlfriend because all was doing was to push her away, trying to keep her close.

For me the only thing that helped was going into therapy, took me 3 years. But i really got to know myself and i know now how to open up and face my fears, not anger. Because my anger comes out of fear. I needed that safe environment in therapy to really get to know myself, not with my ex-girlfriend. She didn't wanted to be with me anymore after all my anger lash outs.

But i had to time to build up myself, and that is priceless! It is good for the rest of your life! So if you can do it with your girlfriend that is also good, right. But it is also a personal journey.

Now i have a stable relationship, with someone i love, we talk about everything. If i am really stressed out, i take some Kratom and talk about it....
I wish you all the best!
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#5

Postby Leo Volont » Tue May 28, 2019 11:01 pm

RobertSteenkamp wrote:Hi Kai,

Thank you for sharing. :D
I also hit the wall, with my anger issues.

I lost my girlfriend because all was doing was to push her away, trying to keep her close.

For me the only thing that helped was going into therapy, took me 3 years. But i really got to know myself and i know now how to open up and face my fears, not anger. Because my anger comes out of fear. I needed that safe environment in therapy to really get to know myself, not with my ex-girlfriend. She didn't wanted to be with me anymore after all my anger lash outs.

But i had to time to build up myself, and that is priceless! It is good for the rest of your life! So if you can do it with your girlfriend that is also good, right. But it is also a personal journey.

Now i have a stable relationship, with someone i love, we talk about everything. If i am really stressed out, i take some Kratom and talk about it....
I wish you all the best!


Wow, Robert, how were you able to afford years of psychotherapy? With that kind of money, it really isn't very surprising that you would land on your feet and another Relationship drop in your lap.

Oh, you say your Anger was out of Fear. Hmmmm. Many of us get angry due to Frustration. You know, People have goals in their life, and when their goals are thwarted, it makes them angry. Have you never experienced being 'thwarted'. Hmmmm, if you are in the Socio Economic Class where you can snap your fingers and summon Years of Psychotherapy, then perhaps you have little experience of being significantly thwarted. You know, the difference between Princeton and Yale was nothing to get upset about.

Oh, what did you mean by "Pushing her away to keep her close"? Usually when we 'push somebody away' it is for the opposite reason of keeping them close. Robert, maybe you touched upon this in Therapy, but often when we act as though we are disgusted with somebody and don't want to be with them, well, it is BECAUSE we are disgusted with them and don't want to be with them. The Problem is not THAT, the problem is not bringing the situation to a speedy resolution. If the Place is yours, you kick Her out. If the place is hers, well, you stomach your true feelings until you have First Months Rend, Last Months Rent and a Deposit for your own Brave New World.

Maybe your successful Relationship NOW is not so much because of you, but because you have a more goal oriented and motivated girl friend. Think about it for a second. Does she in any way benefit materially from being in this relationship with you? Yes? Well, God Bless Her, she is smart enough to not bite the hand that feeds her. She indulges you. Yes, Robert, you are the luckiest man on Earth. But, remember to keep an eye on your Legal Liabilities. If you are in a Crowd that can afford years of psychotherapy, then you are also in with a Crowd that can afford to consult with Lawyers. Wives often consult with lawyers. Do they get a better deal being with you, or divorcing you. Remember, some women make a very successful career out of stacking up Divorce Settlements. You know, they must have extremely congenial and attractive social skills to be able to ruin one husband and then to snap their fingers and pick up the next. yes, it is always that their Ex-husbands were such Brutes, but YOU are such a darling. So, if you REALLY like this new Relationship, just make sure that she will always have more to gain WITH you than what a Judge will grant her for tossing you under the proverbial Bus.

Oh, Kratom. I thought that was some MED until I searched it. I found: "Kratom is a controlled substance in 16 countries and, in 2014, the FDA banned importing and manufacturing of kratom as a dietary supplement. In the United States, there is consideration to make it a Schedule I drug". So, yes, we can solve our Anger Management issues with years of Psychotherapy that only the 1% can afford, and with a Drug that is largely unavailable. But, yes, Robert, is is good that somebody is living the good life, and it is good for you that it is you.
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#6

Postby RobertSteenkamp » Wed May 29, 2019 10:05 am

Leo Volont wrote:Wow, Robert, how were you able to afford years of psychotherapy? With that kind of money, it really isn't very surprising that you would land on your feet and another Relationship drop in your lap.
RobertSteenkamp wrote:


Seriously! In other parts of the world like Europe, where i am from they have governments that care more about there people! Here we pay monthly, around 100 euro, sometimes less depending on what you make. And everyone gets psychologist for free if they need it. Because we all pay monthly. Every citizen. We pay for each other. We mostly get every care for free.

So keep your judgement to yourself please. Nobody wants to hear bitter remarks. :D
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#7

Postby Candid » Wed May 29, 2019 4:31 pm

Leo Volont wrote:Remember, some women make a very successful career out of stacking up Divorce Settlements. You know, they must have extremely congenial and attractive social skills to be able to ruin one husband and then to snap their fingers and pick up the next.


Yeah, Leo. Who cleaned you out?
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#8

Postby Leo Volont » Thu May 30, 2019 1:41 am

Candid wrote:
Leo Volont wrote:Remember, some women make a very successful career out of stacking up Divorce Settlements. You know, they must have extremely congenial and attractive social skills to be able to ruin one husband and then to snap their fingers and pick up the next.


Yeah, Leo. Who cleaned you out?


Hi Candid,

Actually I was still quite poor when I got my divorce. My Wife at the time, she always cared a great deal about money, and so since the Divorce would take months to finalize, she thought we should take advantage of filing jointly one more time. Well, in seems that she had been squirrelling cash away in a mattress or something, because her bank account had $5000 more dollars this year than the last. Then I remembered that she would go food shopping and I'd peel off 5 twenties, and then we would be eating hotdogs and spagetti. It occurred to me that she had been skimming the household budget the entire time we were married. Well, perhaps she was fighting back. I told her that the Military absolutely forbade us getting a joint checking account or a joint credit card (Candid, you are Worldly Wise enough to know that after any good 'Lover's Quarrel' it is hard not thinking about Winning the Race to the Bank.... first one to the Bank gets ALL the Money. I didn't want to play that game). So she figured out another way to feather her nest. Oh, and then when we were first married, even on our damned Honeymoon she told me that somebody must have broken into our room and and stolen all my savings (which I put under a board I pried up from the floor, you know, just like the movies). Welll I had always told her that "cops don't do nothing" and so she figured I wouldn't call the cops, BUT, I would be needing to report to my Chain of Command that I got Broke and would need to explain why, and that would take a Police Report. So my Blushing Bride said "No! Here it is" and she reached in the empty hole and palmed out my $2000. So, no, she didn't hit me for much. A lot of guys get raked over the coals a lot worse.
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#9

Postby Candid » Thu May 30, 2019 6:50 am

So do a lot of women. I was one of them, in my first marriage.
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