How can I live in a world like this and not go insane?

Postby Scotist » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:06 pm

Hello everyone. Long story short, been on all kinds of meds for most of my life now; none of them seem to have helped much with my depression. Psychotherapy has had very limited effects as well.

As of late, one thing has been bothering me in particular. I’m not going to go into details...But let’s just say that I’m tired of seeing people constantly mock and ridicule and get angry at me for the various views that I hold. Best case scenario: They don’t take them seriously and they don’t address them in an honest manner.

It doesn’t make much difference how much time I’ve spent researching a topic, how sound my logic is, how well I’ve understood and addressed possible objections. It’s as if it’s all for nothing. I’m lucky if whoever I’m talking to even addresses what I’m saying directly instead of making some snarky comment or some point-missing, question-begging, circular assertion.

Even when it comes to the specific issue where I have a PhD in, it’s not much different.

Am I the problem here? What am I missing? I always try to go out of my way to understand and address the other person’s viewpoint, but for some reason, they tend not to return the favor.

Am I fixating too much on this? Should I just try to enjoy life and not think about such things? Seems like a hard thing to do because I’ve always been drawn to the intellectual side of things, trying to get to the truth of everything.
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:15 pm

Scotist wrote:Am I the problem here? What am I missing?


It sounds like your focus is on discovering rather communicating truth.

For example, you reason that if A = B and B = C then A = C. Can you explain to me why A = C?

There is a difference between having knowledge and the ability to teach that knowledge. You can be a world renowned genius in the use of propositional logic, but still fail to get your ideas accepted if you lack the ability to teach or communicate propositional logic.
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#2

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:37 am

Another thing to consider is how a particular idea or innovation gets accepted.

Engineer -> customer = innovation rejected
Engineer -> sales -> customer = innovation accepted

There are reasons engineers don’t sell their ideas direct to customers. The engineer is knowledgeable, it is their invention, but they are horrible at translating that idea into something that the end user can understand. They think they are addressing the points or questions of the customer, but really it just turns the customer away.

In his 4 decades of research, Everett Rogers outlines a case for a “change agent” or middleman that bridges the gap between the innovator and the person that ultimately will use the innovation.

Maybe at least some of your issue is a belief that regardless of who you talk with, that they are capable of understanding you.

https://www.amazon.com/Diffusion-Innova ... 0743222091

https://youtu.be/hNuu9CpdjIo
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#3

Postby quietvoice » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:43 am

Scotist wrote:I’m not going to go into details...But let’s just say that I’m tired of seeing people constantly mock and ridicule and get angry at me for the various views that I hold. Best case scenario: They don’t take them seriously and they don’t address them in an honest manner.

What people are we talking about here?

How do these people know about your views?

For what reason(s) do you think that one would get angry when they know what views you hold on a particular topic?

When not being taken in a serious manner, in what context are those conversations being held?

Is there something you are looking to prove to others when you share your views?
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#4

Postby Scotist » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:05 am

@Richard: When I wrote about sound logic, I didn’t mean that logic itself is the topic I’m actually talking about to people. I just said that, among other things, I make sure to make logical arguments. If I don’t even do that, anything I might have to say about a topic is pretty much intellectually worthless.

And yes, I am interested in truth above all. Part of what bothers me is precisely that most people don’t seem to be. Kind of a major part of what I’m talking about when I talk about the world and going insane.

So yeah, I get the engineer, sales, customer thing...The depressing thing is precisely that this is how the world is to begin with. People generally aren’t interested in truth for its own sake, as the very highest value.

@quietvoice:

1.Almost everyone, to be honest. Almost no one is prepared to take a few steps back and examine whether what they believe about the world is true.

I have been doing precisely this for years now: consciously examining my own views to see if they are true. I’ve had to change several views I held to strongly because they simply turned out to be false.

But the thing is, the closer I am to the truth about important things...The more lonely I get.

2.Well, I usually don’t initiate things...But if they talk about various topics several times, I can’t just stay quiet anymore. So I eventually tell them what I think, or point them to some relevant book or article.

3.Experience. lol : - ) I mean, some get angry. Not all. And it depends on the topic.

4.It depends. Different contexts, really.

5.For the most part, I’d like them to be more interested in truth in general.
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#5

Postby quietvoice » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:33 am

You got it.

For the most part, I have found, people don't want to know the truth. They just aren't ready for it. I think that they think that it serves no purpose to them, and in fact will get in the way of how they have been conditioned to think and emote and behave. It would require change, and people, for the most part, don't want to change.

So, you keep it to yourself until you find a person of similar or like mind. Then, go and have great conversation and time spent with that person.

I do think that this world is undergoing a massive change in consciousness, as it must if this Earth is to enable us to stay living here. Please do not despair too much; keep up your spirits and know that there are others like you who live for the truth of the matter.
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#6

Postby quietvoice » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:07 pm

I love Joe Dispenza. Have you met him?
1 hour interview.
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#7

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:09 pm

Scotist wrote:The depressing thing is precisely that this is how the world is to begin with. People generally aren’t interested in truth for its own sake, as the very highest value.


And how do you believe others lack of holding the same value of truth as the highest negatively impacts you?

Because others generally don’t seek out truth for it’s own sake, are you unable to eat, do you make less money, do these other people stop you from socializing, or going to the gym, joining a club, playing chess, or contributing to the welfare of others in general?

What exactly do you believe you are unable to accomplish because others don’t hold your same value? Or, what do you fear because others don’t hold your same value as highest?

I guess I am unclear as to why others not holding your same value as highest would have any material impact on your life.
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#8

Postby quietvoice » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:16 pm

Richard wrote:I guess I am unclear as to why others not holding your same value as highest would have any material impact on your life.

Here's an example for you.

Let's say that you have figured out, along with many others, that we, as a species, are frugivores, like other primates. This is a truth that can be received by unconditionally observing material reality. However, all of the people who don't want to see this as truth continue to partake of daily action that is antagonistic to such a truth, and in the doing of such, contribute to the destruction of the very planet that we live upon. This would necessarily affect the one who knows the truth, albeit in ways that can be ignored for the time being. (Although, another truth is that this is all temporary, and he'll be out of here soon enough.)
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#9

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:42 pm

Quietvoice,

That is an example of holding A truth as the highest value, not seeking THE truth.

I understand why a person might be frustrated when they wish people would adopt a truth they believe materially impacts their community. I could see a person go through various emotional states as people ignore a truth.

But, people that value seeking the truth as the highest value might be at different stages of determining what diet is best for saving the planet. Truth seekers, at different ages and different phases in their truth seeking journey, will inevitably draw different conclusions about what is required to save the planet.

What you are suggesting is not truth seeking as the highest value, but rather a very authoritarian, top down, heavy handed approach where everyone must accept a truth that you have discovered. There is no allowance in your version for the natural process of individual discovery of that truth. Instead, it is expecting that everyone discover the same truth as you, at the same time as you, regardless of age or opportunity for education, etc. This is very different than being depressed because everyone isn’t seeking truth as a highest value.

With the OP, why be depressed because everyone isn’t born an ultimately skilled seeker of truth just for the sake of truth? Because every child has not yet developed critical thinking skills, that is a rational, logical reason to be depressed? Because all chikdren are not aspiring to be Plato or Socrates, the world is awful? Everyone must be a philosopher or something is terribly wrong with the world?

Read Plato’s Republic. The world is run by philosopher kings.
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#10

Postby hojoos » Fri May 03, 2019 6:23 pm

Agree with u
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#11

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 03, 2019 11:06 pm

It can be hard. But it is necessary to adjust to such environments. The best bet would be finding new social circles. It can feel tough, I know
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