Childhood memories haunt me and I feel guilt

Postby James_Lee » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:43 am

I am a 19 year old boy now, and have been suffering from panic disorders. I have 3 cases from my childhood that concern me very much. And I need help for these. Please listen.

First Case. These incidents happened when I was around 13. I was a sheltered kid, homeschooled and stuff. I would not be any older than 15-16 for sure, I think. My sister is 7 years younger than me. I remember I would sort of sit her on me, and ask her to kind of pet me, sometimes. One particular incident, I was in an underwear when I sort of sat her on me. And sometimes rub myself. But I never got naked or even thought of it. And never remember touching any private parts. I did not even know how to masturbate properly or what sex was. I had no idea if it was normal what I was doing. Only later did I realize and started feeling immense guilt about it ever since. I love my sister to death. She does not remember these incidents and we have a great relationship. I never employed any violence or predatory behavior. And once again, I NEVER thought of this behavior as abusive. I only later started having guilt.

Second case. These incidents concern a girl who is 3 years younger than me. In this case, this girl remembers the incidents. I was around 13-14 for the majority part. Once again, I did not know much and had no idea what was normal or not, neither did I know what consent was. Once again, I never employed violence. These incidents involved sitting in lap, sitting on me, kissing belly, caressing legs, slight humping etc. She seemed into it for the most part. She did seem annoyed sometimes, but most of the time she would sit on my lap, even kiss me back, sometimes laugh, return to the room later. The final incident, I remember happened when I was 17. I caressed her leg, she did not say anything then I leaned in to kiss her neck and she pushed me away. A minute later, tried again, she told me to stop and I got up and left. I know that she has told her friend about these incidents, but there is no evidence she thought of these as abusive. Basically, I thought this was all childhood experimentation. But when I saw abusers and their stories, I realized that what one person feels can feel different to another. And I felt very scared. What if she felt guilt? Or shame? What if I hurt her? Or what if she is too ashamed to say anything? We interact normally from time to time.

Third case. This single incident, concerns a girl who is older than me. Basically, as kids, we used to sit in each other's lap. She once told my brother, among other things, that once, when voluntarily sitting in my lap, she felt my penis and tried to get up, but I slightly resisted for a second. I do not remember the incident well, but I am sure, I did not use ANY violence at all. This girl does not interact with me anymore, but when she did, she did not seem concerned, we were OK. And again, I never thought of it as abuse, I did not even properly remember this.

I am scared. I do not wish harm on anyone. I know that I am not a predator. I would never willingly abuse anyone, I would rather castrate myself. Are cases like mine common? Do I have a chance at normal life? Am I a bad person? Do I belong in prison? My brain keeps telling me that this is a pattern, I belong in prison. I need some answers. I need some help. I do not want to feel like a monster.
Thank you
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:12 am

Three threads about this topic...

viewtopic.php?t=107960

viewtopic.php?t=107219

viewtopic.php?t=107757

Don’t want to read other threads? Short answer, you’re normal, not a bad person, not an abuser.
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#2

Postby James_Lee » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:40 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Three threads about this topic...

viewtopic.php?t=107960

viewtopic.php?t=107219

viewtopic.php?t=107757

Don’t want to read other threads? Short answer, you’re normal, not a bad person, not an abuser.


Hey. Thanks for replying. For some reason, I feel that my case is the worst, or that I am a monster. Do you have any idea if these sort of feelings are common? Do I belong in prison? Thank you so much
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#3

Postby Candid » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:22 pm

James_Lee wrote:Do you have any idea if these sort of feelings are common?


Yes, apparently.

Do I belong in prison?


No, of course not.

Thank you so much


You're welcome.
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#4

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 03, 2019 2:03 am

Candid wrote:
James_Lee wrote:Do you have any idea if these sort of feelings are common?


Yes, apparently.

Do I belong in prison?


No, of course not.

Thank you so much


You're welcome.



I still feel disgusting. I keep watching shows about these disgusting abusive people and the hurt they have caused. I really hope I am not like that. Since, I never ever intended to or intend to cause such harm to anyone.
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#5

Postby quietvoice » Fri May 03, 2019 2:14 am

James_Lee wrote: I keep watching shows about these disgusting abusive people and the hurt they have caused.

Why do you do this?
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#6

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 03, 2019 2:18 am

quietvoice wrote:
James_Lee wrote: I keep watching shows about these disgusting abusive people and the hurt they have caused.

Why do you do this?


I mean, sex abuse and child sex abuse are such important topics in the modern society. It is sort of hard not to. I want to feel guilt-free when doing this, but I feel terrified. I will try to avoid such shows, though
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#7

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri May 03, 2019 2:52 am

James_Lee wrote: I want to feel guilt-free


That is never going to happen as long as you continue to think that you are smarter on this issue than everyone else. As long as you continue to ignore what anyone tells you in favor of your own opinion, you will always feel guilty. Basically, even though multiple people have told you and you have read threads about similar situations, you ignore all of that information. Why? Because you are more intelligent than everyone else, because you know the truth, because no matter what anyone says you know better?

How many examples do you need? How many people must tell you that you are wrong? Ten, 100, 1000? At what point will you begin to rethink your guilt?

My money is on never. My money is that no matter how many times you are told that you will ignore everyone. The question then becomes why? Why do you wish to ignore everyone, why do you wish to feel guilt over a non-issue?

A reasonable explanation I have seen many times is that suffering over a perceived wrong then justifies future action or inaction. It provides a shield to avoid life. It allows you protection against failure, choosing not to go to college, or take a promotion, or start a new project. It is rationalized as being “deserved” because of some hogwash past transgression.

To admit you are wrong on this takes away that shield. It means that you can’t blame failing to achieve a goal on some perceived transgression years ago.

It is a trade of between guilt and fear. If you keep the guilt then you don’t need to fear failure. You just blame everything on the guilt. If you rid yourself of the guilt then you have no excuses anymore so you must fear failure. You are choosing the default emotion, the one you are currently experiencing.
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#8

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 03, 2019 3:04 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
James_Lee wrote: I want to feel guilt-free


That is never going to happen as long as you continue to think that you are smarter on this issue than everyone else. As long as you continue to ignore what anyone tells you in favor of your own opinion, you will always feel guilty. Basically, even though multiple people have told you and you have read threads about similar situations, you ignore all of that information. Why? Because you are more intelligent than everyone else, because you know the truth, because no matter what anyone says you know better?

How many examples do you need? How many people must tell you that you are wrong? Ten, 100, 1000? At what point will you begin to rethink your guilt?

My money is on never. My money is that no matter how many times you are told that you will ignore everyone. The question then becomes why? Why do you wish to ignore everyone, why do you wish to feel guilt over a non-issue?

A reasonable explanation I have seen many times is that suffering over a perceived wrong then justifies future action or inaction. It provides a shield to avoid life. It allows you protection against failure, choosing not to go to college, or take a promotion, or start a new project. It is rationalized as being “deserved” because of some hogwash past transgression.

To admit you are wrong on this takes away that shield. It means that you can’t blame failing to achieve a goal on some perceived transgression years ago.

It is a trade of between guilt and fear. If you keep the guilt then you don’t need to fear failure. You just blame everything on the guilt. If you rid yourself of the guilt then you have no excuses anymore so you must fear failure. You are choosing the default emotion, the one you are currently experiencing.



Sir, to be fair, it is not entirely up to me. I mean it is not like I "choose to" stop worrying. These are horrible things. And if I am guilty of such a travesty, that would be a really sad thing. I am very new to this forum. I keep seeing that there are real cases of Sexual abuse by minors, and child on child sexual abuse is a real thing. I have had guilt over these issues, but I have only recently started dealing with these. I am very glad that you guys respond to me and help me on the subject. I appreciate your effort Richard, you are a good person!
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#9

Postby Candid » Fri May 03, 2019 6:56 am

I work in a sexual assault agency, inputting data, so I see many cases of sexual assault on minors. What you describe is experimentation. You say you did not coerce the girls in any way and that there was no penetration. In other words, they were trying out new sensations of their growing bodies just like you were. No doubt each of them acted similarly with other males as well.

If one or more of them were distressed by this innocent play, it would be because it went further than they were ready for. That doesn't seem to be the case. The way you've presented it, all of it was consensual. Consent is the issue in sexual assault.

You and they had some sexy fun together, that's all.
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#10

Postby James_Lee » Fri May 03, 2019 5:36 pm

Candid wrote:I work in a sexual assault agency, inputting data, so I see many cases of sexual assault on minors. What you describe is experimentation. You say you did not coerce the girls in any way and that there was no penetration. In other words, they were trying out new sensations of their growing bodies just like you were. No doubt each of them acted similarly with other males as well.

If one or more of them were distressed by this innocent play, it would be because it went further than they were ready for. That doesn't seem to be the case. The way you've presented it, all of it was consensual. Consent is the issue in sexual assault.

You and they had some sexy fun together, that's all.


So I have to explain the situation better. In the first case, my sister was too young to remember, to be fair, I was young too. I was also young when I realized it might have been wrong, and stopped that. In the second case, the girl seemed to be into it. I mean, I never actually asked such a thing. Sometimes, she felt annoyed, I believe, but I do not ever remember the signs of being abused. She kept coming back, sometimes laughed or smiled, kissed back, and seemed more concerned on whether someone might see us. Now, about 2-3 years passed, and this time, I was 17, she was 14 turning 15. I laid my hand on her thigh, she did not say anything, I leaned in kissed her neck and she kind of turned me away. Tried again, she said stop, I got up and left. And that was it.

Now, in the third case, it was more of a single incident. She voluntarily sat in my lap, as a game, and then, she told my brother, a year or 2 later, that she felt my penis, and that I kind of held her for a moment from getting up. I do not remember the incident like that, but it was a very short thing.

Now, again, Candid, what I want to make clear, is that from my side, with my knowledge at the time I intended no harm. However, the thing is, that people feel things differently. In all 3 cases, I was the main initiator most of the time. I know for a fact that my younger sister does not remember these incidents. But as for the second girl, I do not know. She told the 3rd girl about them, but probably as a confession. I have no evidence to suggest that she felt abused. But again, I do not know. If I feel guilt about these incidents, maybe she does too. As for the 3rd girl, we do not have contact anymore. But before she left, she did not seem particularly hostile to me, other than mentioning the incident to my brother. Though, I do not know if she mentioned it as just a fun fact, or as some complain she had.

I do not care about my reputation. What I want, is to know that I am not an abuser or a deviant. That cases like mine are common. I do not simply want this thing to be silenced or anything. From what I know now, I can guarantee that I have definitely looked at such contact from a different angle. But at the time, I simply had no such knowledge. I did what felt good, and I did not intend to ever cause pain or harm. There is no evidence, as off yet, that this is a significant concern to any of these people involved, but feelings can be hidden. And even if these girls get over it, I do not want to feel like an abuser who's wrongdoings got hushed away!
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#11

Postby Candid » Sat May 04, 2019 6:56 am

James_Lee wrote: What I want, is to know that I am not an abuser or a deviant. That cases like mine are common.


What would it take for you to have what you say you want?

By your account none of these girls is fretting over what happened or feeling in the least bit bad about it, so why are you?
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#12

Postby James_Lee » Sun May 05, 2019 3:30 am

Candid wrote:
James_Lee wrote: What I want, is to know that I am not an abuser or a deviant. That cases like mine are common.


What would it take for you to have what you say you want?

By your account none of these girls is fretting over what happened or feeling in the least bit bad about it, so why are you?


To be fair, there is no evidence that they are feeling bad about it. I cannot get deep into their thoughts. Another point is, that regardless of how they feel, if I was an abuser, I would still be an abuser. If there was an attempted rape, and the potential victim forgave the rapist, that does not magically make him less deplorable. That is my concern. First of all, I am concerned about the well being of the girls. But I am also concerned about the implications of these actions
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#13

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun May 05, 2019 3:37 am

Candid wrote:What would it take for you to have what you say you want?


James_Lee

What will it take? That is the question.

By what will it take, it means that you have been told more ways than one that your issues are normal experimentation. Yet, all you do is dismiss this again and again and again. You ignore it, discount it, discard it, etc.

Every time someone says it is normal experimentation you have a “Yes, but...”

The “Yes, but...” strategy can go on forever if you wish.

So again...reflect on what Candid is really asking. What will it take? What can anyone say as to get you to not reply with a “Yes, but...”?
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#14

Postby James_Lee » Sun May 05, 2019 3:40 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Candid wrote:What would it take for you to have what you say you want?


James_Lee

What will it take? That is the question.

By what will it take, it means that you have been told more ways than one that your issues are normal experimentation. Yet, all you do is dismiss this again and again and again. You ignore it, discount it, discard it, etc.

Every time someone says it is normal experimentation you have a “Yes, but...”

The “Yes, but...” strategy can go on forever if you wish.

So again...reflect on what Candid is really asking. What will it take? What can anyone say as to get you to not reply with a “Yes, but...”?


I am more than thankful for the answers provided. You guys have obviously reassured me a lot. But I feel that these guilt feelings do not have any one-way solutions
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