Is it what you smoke rather than the amount?

Postby tokeless » Thu May 30, 2019 3:52 pm

I've been on this forum for many years and had many debates about addiction to weed etc. What I have noticed is the number of people with PAWS, which I never got after decades of heavy, daily use. I found giving up quite easy with little in the way of negative effects, wereas others suffer for months. Therefore is it what we smoked? I smoked some of the world's best weed but never did shatter, concentrates or other frankenstien weed. I actually think the commercialisation of weed has lead to modifications that could be creating the withdrawals because it's been tampered with. For decades the tobacco industry denied carcinogenic concerns and addiction because it wanted people hooked. Have we opened pandora's box? Otherwise I am puzzled by the variation of experiences when people stop. I personally don't know anyone who got PAWS, myself included. Are the posters on here suffering, the users of the concentrate and shatter?
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#1

Postby SparkleFly12 » Thu May 30, 2019 4:46 pm

Hey Tokeless,

Best I can tell, what you smoke is certainly a factor.

For a long while I smoked only bud, mid-high grade CA weed. When I quit (2-3 weeks at a time) I had very mild symptoms, no sign of PAWS. It was very tolerable, just a mild headache and mild insomnia.

When I started smoking shatters and oils, thats when sh** went downhill. When I quit, the acute symptoms were horrible (shivers, night sweats, nausea, terrible headache and facial pressure...) and I suffered PAWS. As you may know from my other posts Im 14 weeks in and still experiencing paws.

Ive been looking into this for many years, while smoking myself; and my educated hypothesis is that how severe your symptoms will be depend on:
-What you smoked, THC%
-How long you stayed high for per day
-your body - each person is different

I have not seen/read of a case where someone smoking oils didnt have terrible withdrawal.
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#2

Postby BullFrog » Thu May 30, 2019 4:53 pm

To answer your question: no. While many who suffered PAWS did use concentrates, many also were just heavy smokers. I used homemade oils for 3 weeks then quit. Then 3 months later vaped 4 times in one week and experienced 8 weeks of PAWS and still, 16 months later, deal with a strange buzzy/dizzy annoying sensation in my head that comes in goes to various intensities (and no, it was not laced weed and was perfectly legit).

Having said that, the dumbass schedule 1 status of pot has kept the wider range of negative side effects of cannabis under reported. The brain is vastly complex and despite all modern advancements, we still know very little about it and what we do know, it's hard to do much about. Since THC involves some serious interaction with our neurological pathways it ultimately should be no surprise that a decent amount of people can experience some interesting things from trying cannabis or, most certainly, a legion of negative effects after abusing it and then quitting.

I can understand your question though. From your own experience and all your fellow pot smokers, this is unheard of. But this forum isn't filled with people trying only laced weed and wanting attention. These effects are real and it is happening to far more people then we realize. Even if it is only like 4% of potsmokers, that still is a LARGE amount of people.

Oh, and in another forum, the guy who gave me the recipe for making cannabis oil has been using that recipe to make oil for 40 years (and he uses it everyday). He seems to have no issues with it (granted he has never quit either). Thus even concentrates doesn't guarantee someone will get messed up by it.
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#3

Postby SparkleFly12 » Thu May 30, 2019 8:09 pm

I think you misunderstood...I know that you dont have to smoke concentrates to get horrible acute withdrawal and PAWS. I just think it makes it much more likely. My example is perfect; the worst I suffered when smoking only weed was headache and mild insomnia at 2-7 days after quitting. The intensity was the same as I feel now, 3.5 months after stopping concentrates.

My hypothesis is: Chemically weed and concentrates are the same, and regardless of your bodys chemistry you are more likely to get bad withdrawal and PAWS if you smoke concentrates instead of weed.
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#4

Postby ashthewarrior7 » Thu May 30, 2019 8:36 pm

there are two ways to cut down a tree, hit it with an axe a 1000 times at the same place or slice it once with a really powerful chain saw. both ways the tree falls. Same goes for your brain and weed. Hit it a few times with mild weed and nothing else, nothing much happens. Use concentrates, waxes, oils etc.. well its faster. Use meth/bath salts and other harder substances, you dont even have to wait to lose your mind.

now every tree is different and so is every person's brain. everything matters, right from the axe/chain saw to the environment, genes and age of the tree.

P.S. I definitely, out of experience, feel the strain we smoke also matters, i have no could evidence to back this up but if different strains can give you different highs then different strains can be the cause of PAWS and not all of them. again i do not have enough information to confirm this but its an idea derived out of experience.

tokeless wrote:Have we opened pandora's box? Otherwise I am puzzled by the variation of experiences when people stop.


looks like we did, the effect of PAWS and the average length of weed induced PAWS is increasing. When i first joined this forum i went back to years of posts and saw that 8 months to 1 year seemed the average and only a rare few lasted upto 2 years and only one user was till 2.7 years. now? 1.5 years seems to be the average to be just out the woods. selective breeding is definitely effecting the weed we get, growers everywhere are growing their more potent (not necessarily better quality) but just more THC potent weed everywhere! legal or illegal. add that to the growing vitamin and mineral deficiency in us and our food, lesser active lifestyle and social interaction. BOOM! YOU GOT PAWS!
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#5

Postby tokeless » Fri May 31, 2019 1:59 am

ashthewarrior7 wrote:there are two ways to cut down a tree, hit it with an axe a 1000 times at the same place or slice it once with a really powerful chain saw. both ways the tree falls. Same goes for your brain and weed. Hit it a few times with mild weed and nothing else, nothing much happens. Use concentrates, waxes, oils etc.. well its faster. Use meth/bath salts and other harder substances, you dont even have to wait to lose your mind.

now every tree is different and so is every person's brain. everything matters, right from the axe/chain saw to the environment, genes and age of the tree.

P.S. I definitely, out of experience, feel the strain we smoke also matters, i have no could evidence to back this up but if different strains can give you different highs then different strains can be the cause of PAWS and not all of them. again i do not have enough information to confirm this but its an idea derived out of experience.

tokeless wrote:Have we opened pandora's box? Otherwise I am puzzled by the variation of experiences when people stop.


looks like we did, the effect of PAWS and the average length of weed induced PAWS is increasing. When i first joined this forum i went back to years of posts and saw that 8 months to 1 year seemed the average and only a rare few lasted upto 2 years and only one user was till 2.7 years. now? 1.5 years seems to be the average to be just out the woods. selective breeding is definitely effecting the weed we get, growers everywhere are growing their more potent (not necessarily better quality) but just more THC potent weed everywhere! legal or illegal. add that to the growing vitamin and mineral deficiency in us and our food, lesser active lifestyle and social interaction. BOOM! YOU GOT PAWS!


To continue with analogy. Drinking 4% beer daily for a long time can create alcohol dependence, so can drinking a bottle of whisky daily for a long time. They both cause dependency but the damage to the liver from the whisky is more pronounced over the same time period. If you compare shatter et al in THC terms with good weed, the two are way different so using one or the other will impact on the user.
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#6

Postby Maxbor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 am

Should a cover letter be attached to the email or can it just be copy and pasted into the part where you type instead of having two attachments..which is better to go with?
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#7

Postby AnnaK » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:58 pm

Using wax upped my tolerance level to where I was then smoking a sh** ton of high grade to get high or just feel normal. I’m going to say that I think it contributed to my having PAWS. I didn’t do it all the time
but it got me to the point of being a smoke a blunt to the face kind of pot head... and that amount of smoking most likely caused the issues.
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#8

Postby Hellokitty85 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:43 am

I’ve always had withdrawals from weed quits and I just smoke regular stuff. Everyone is different. Sucks. I wish I was like you haha! Ive quit off and on over the past 20 years of smoking and every single time i get “PAWS”. I cant smoke that heavy shatter and dab stuff. It makes me have anxiety big time. Ive always just smoked a bowl or a joint.
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#9

Postby JimBob8873 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:41 pm

I honestly have to say, for me personally it was what I was smoking rather than how often. I was a stoner for years and only smoked herb, I had no trouble quitting or even having withdrawals from it. I quit for months after smoking herb for several years and really didnt have an issue. Now that I have quit concentrates after having crazy high tolerance to it, I dealt with acute withdrawals (pretty severe almost to the point of going to the ER) and now I am dealing with PAWS.

People REALLY need to know about how dangerous this and pretty much any drug can be if you let it take control of your life. I really did think it was totally harmless and now I am paying the price for being so naive.
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#10

Postby AnnaK » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:35 pm

I went to the er they can’t help and don’t even know what it is. They gave me anti nausea drugs and said I had gerd and migraines and checked my heart. Said I could have had a tia stroke and that I have panic attacks. I told them I was using heavily
... they said weed, shatter, wax doesn’t cause acute withdrawal. They never smoked it.
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#11

Postby JimBob8873 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:51 pm

Its truly sad how little people in the medical field know about weed. Doing anything that promotes high dopamine response causes addiction. Gambling is a perfect example, even video games! How can they say that when you are obviously having symptoms of protracted withdrawal? My doctor didnt do a thing after I came in, didnt even run any blood tests to make sure I am okay... I hate what the medical industry has become. Its sickening.
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#12

Postby SparkleFly12 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:29 am

JimBob8873 wrote:I honestly have to say, for me personally it was what I was smoking rather than how often. I was a stoner for years and only smoked herb, I had no trouble quitting or even having withdrawals from it. I quit for months after smoking herb for several years and really didnt have an issue. Now that I have quit concentrates after having crazy high tolerance to it, I dealt with acute withdrawals (pretty severe almost to the point of going to the ER) and now I am dealing with PAWS.


Ditto. Had very little withdrawal when I used to smoke bud. When I started using wax, got mad withdrawals and now am 3.5 months into PAWS.

And yea doctors dont know sh**. A lot of doctors I know (personally) smoked in college, where its "common knowledge" that weed doesnt have any withdrawal symptoms...of course that is bs. No hangover sure, but definitely withdrawal symptoms and causes PAWS.
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