How do I control my anger outbursts?

#60

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:04 pm

Good Morning Little Brown,

Oh, no! No professional psychology at all. Those Behaviorists you mentioned (Piaget, Skinner and Eysenck) well, they were the ones that started the revolution against the scamming quack Psychoanalysts (all the Big Names that are mostly still revered, at least at the Psych 101 Introductory Level, which they shouldn't.... it would be like if medical school still glorified the early 'medical' theories such as infectious diseases were spread by swamp 'miasma' gas and such. We know those early names were scam artists, so they need to drop the names like they never existed and move on to practices that followed from studies, data, experiments and other scientific methodologies. Freud can be saved for the History books in regards to how every aspect of capitalist society is subject to corruption. Oh, the big names in CBT are Albert Ellis, who invented the concept, though under a different name (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy) and then Aaron Beck who did find the correct name for it. My favorite popular Psychologist, who has written a great deal about anger, is Ronald Potter-Efron. Here at the forum, I start out by giving seriously angry people, who have those loud episodes that get them into trouble, I give them my lecture on Cortisol and the Jaw Muscles. and then I move onto CBT. CBT takes a lot of work. It is like learning how to play the violin. it also takes intelligence. Really, you can use CBT to remake your personality. And so one really has to go into it thinking "who do I really want to be". You can not only get rid of just all the old bad habits and thought patterns, but you can install all new stuff. But, it is like learning how to play the violin. Practice Practice Practice. Most angry people stay angry because they have no idea of the work involved in recreating themselves. I think it must be comparable to Acting. Hmmmm, maybe I should buy a few books on 'acting'. Anger management may only require being able to step into a mild mannered character. I've recently been reading some of the old Raymond Chandler "Philip Marlowe" detective books (classics in their own way.... I went from re-reading Jane Austen to re-reading Chandler... a kind of balance), and in some of his books where his Marlowe character meets with Hollywood Movie Actors, well, when they get into difficulty, they maneuver by 'acting roles' that seem more adaptive then anything they would do as 'themselves'. So, yeah, It's good to be talking with you, Little Brown... it's given me an idea.
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#61

Postby littlebrowndragon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:51 pm

Leo Volont » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:04 pm

CBT takes a lot of work. It is like learning how to play the violin. it also takes intelligence. Really, you can use CBT to remake your personality. And so one really has to go into it thinking "who do I really want to be". You can not only get rid of just all the old bad habits and thought patterns, but you can install all new stuff.



Hi there.

CBT can be used to re-invent oneself? That got me thinking. I tried imagining that. I tried imagining what it might be like to become a different person. What person would I become? Would I try to become like someone I admire? Even people I admire have character traits that I would not necessarily want. So do I take characteristics that I like from a mish-mash of people, put them all together and use CBT to transform myself? To be honest, it sounds a bit like I’d turn into a sort of psychological version of Frankenstein’s monster. Also, if I was to become like someone I admire, would I not, in effect, become a psychological clone of that person? What role does individuality have to play here? Does psychology think that people do not have unique personalities any more? And what about memories? How would the memories of the old me fit in with the re-invented me?

Actually, what CBT sounds like to me is that the human mind is being treated rather like a computer where one can install new software virtually at will.

However, surely the human mind and body is much more complex than a computer. I mean, even organ transplant is difficult. Human bodies do have a difficult time accepting the replacement organ and have to be given all sorts of drugs to suppress the natural tendency to reject the replacement organ. Would there not be a similar psychological attempt to reject the new personality if one tried to transplant a new one into oneself?

I guess I don’t understand CBT. Perhaps you could clarify some of this for me.
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#62

Postby Leo Volont » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:37 am

Hi Little Brown,

when I said that CBT takes intelligence, well, yes, it would take intelligence to figure out exactly what to use the CBT for. yes, you can become a composite of various 'ideal' people, but, as you point out, some of these 'ideal' personality traits would actually be in conflict. The way I have resolved that idea of conflicting personality traits is that I see behavior in terms of 'persona'. the idea is that you would not have to be consistently one 'type' of person, but could dedicate different 'personas' for different times and places. the 'Librarian' can co-exist with the 'Saturday Night Club Girl'. Of course, in our ordinary lives, we would only have motivation to be the kind of person whom we would really want to be. For instance, to be a social extrovert, well, if we studied that 'type' we might find that to be any 'good' at it, that we should know all the card games, be proficient at tennis and golf, be good at ball room dancing, and be well enough read and entertained to be able to hold conversations about the things that people talk about. So it would be nice if all of that kind of stuff really appealed to one. But, often times choosing a persona can be a practical matter or almost something like a career choice. Again, Acting is a good example. With high budget movies with high budget actors, well, the work could start up to a year or six months in advance, with the 'star' taking time to grow into their character. They could find the idea role model for the part and just try to meld into that personality, even to the extent of taking on the peripheral interests. Surprisingly, there are many things we could enjoy if we only began to take them up as a kind of hobby. Oh, and then there are Social Ideals. Women used to have to conform to a certain type in order to be a Society Wife. It really was a 'role' that was well defined and there was an industry of Schools and Governesses whose business it was to take malleable little girls and turn them into ideal Society Wives. East Asia also has a sense of what their 'ideal' people should be like. I was in the Far East and, yes, there is a right way and many wrong ways of doing anything. In the Far East you learn the right way of doing everything and that is how you do everything.

ANYWAY, as far as Anger Management goes, I suppose it is important only that people get the sense that they are NOT 'themselves'. You know how people say "just be yourself". Well, people need to realize that there is no such person as just 'them self'. First, we are all a product of our conditioning. We only had so many role models when growing up, and so many of our mannerisms are simply borrowed from parents or peers. We should know we have choices in regards to our manners and interests. Especially in regards to whatever we DO, THINK, or SAY that gets us into trouble. Whatever persona we choose, if we are not to be Society Wives, or East Asians, well, it hardly matters, but what we need to carry away from CBT is that we don't have to get ourselves into trouble and difficulties unless we are somehow gluttons for punishment. And, yes, sometimes we can be 'gluttons for punishment'. For instance, there is the Heroic Ideal of the Proud Rebel Fighting Against Authority. Such a person is not really 'happy' unless they are constantly getting fired from jobs for raising issues with the bosses. That is where deep decisions have to be made. Cognitive Work requires that we challenge the idea of who we WANT to be. For instance, suppose we get into a relationship and must settle down and be serious about raising a family. Well, the "Rebel" needs to be replaced. The New Ideal has to be the 'Yes Man'. Life is Choices and we have to be Brave and Conscious enough to make those choices.
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#63

Postby littlebrowndragon » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:46 pm

Leo Volont wrote:Hi Little Brown,
The way I have resolved that idea of conflicting personality traits is that I see behavior in terms of 'persona'. the idea is that you would not have to be consistently one 'type' of person, but could dedicate different 'personas' for different times and places. the 'Librarian' can co-exist with the 'Saturday Night Club Girl'.



The above sounds dangerously like multiple personality disorder.


Well, people need to realize that there is no such person as just 'them self'. First, we are all a product of our conditioning. We only had so many role models when growing up, and so many of our mannerisms are simply borrowed from parents or peers. We should know we have choices in regards to our manners and interests.


So, by the above do you mean that when we are born we are a bit like an empty vessel and our personality/persona is transferred to us from those we see around us and come into contact with? Makes me think of the film Bladerunner and the replicants, each with their own “persona” and implanted memories.

However, what about a person’s soul and their spirit? Does psychology recognize these as being an integral part of a human being?
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#64

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:18 pm

Well, in Classic Personality Disorder, that I guess you are thinking about, the Persona Complexes are autonomous and independent, to some extent, and we have situations where one Persona takes over leaving the other personas in the dark. What I am talking about is learning through practice how to behave in society. You need to ask yourself why some people are their own worst enemies, whereby they themselves are the ones who cause all the trouble in their lives. Yes, nobody is taught this in school, and the prevailing wisdom says that people should "just be themselves", that is, actively refrain from correcting anything that is wrong. But children are generally raised by parents who have absolutely no training in child rearing. In Old World Civilizations, the Family Structures were more extended, and the Grand Parents had a great deal of control on child rearing, and the parents were sort of "In Training" for when they would be the Grand Parents and in charge of things. But NOW parents who are mostly still children themselves raise kids and provide terrible role models. Also, families are too isolated. Children need a variety of role models but they just have their stupid slutty mom and their deadbeat smoking and drinking dad. Children should be brought up in a Community where the proper Role Models stand out. Yeah, not every child Type will be attracted to the same role models. We are NOT all born the same. Individuals do come with their own capacities and inclinations (studies of twins separated at birth show this). But, yes, perhaps the schools should teach kids about Choice of Behavior and Social Skills. Even if we are stupid, with practice we can learn to act smart. Actors do it all the time.
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