Can't workout anymore

#15

Postby JimBob8873 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:40 pm

Chronic pain is related to low neurotransmitter levels like dopamine. Some people are more susceptible to it than others. Something that does help is boosting your protein intake, BCAA like tyrosine and tryptophan have a role in neurotransmitter production, do you guys supplement with a vegan or other high quality protein source?
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#16

Postby leavepawsbehind » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:59 pm

I don't think this is a diet issue. I have the same diet from before I quit weed and from before I started smoking. I've seen too many people look for relief at the bottom of expensive supplement bottles and report back no changes. Time is the healer. I am fortunate enough to have been an active person who lifts weights and keeps a low sugar, whole foods based diet before this PAWS nonsense started. I'm sure I could certainly make things worse if I had a trash diet but I don't think it's going to resolve any of these PAWS oddities.
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#17

Postby biohack9 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:15 pm

JimBob8873 wrote:Chronic pain is related to low neurotransmitter levels like dopamine.... vegan or other high quality protein source?


Vegan and high quality protein source should not be in the same sentence! lol

I'm just curious with all of the PAWS issues.... did all of you quit COLD TURKEY?

Long term usage lowers baseline dopamine levels in long term heavy users, but I didn't know that could be linked to chronic pain? Makes sense!
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#18

Postby JimBob8873 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:49 pm

@biohack Yes there is such a thing as high quality vegan protein or plant based protein. I grab a big container from my local health food store that offers fermented plant protein for probiotics as well as prebiotics for an increased effect. It contains all the essential amino acids as well as the non-essential. In fact its much better for you than whey.

I quit cold turkey but I really couldnt see another way due to my physical addiction to it. I had to. It sucked for a while but I am getting through it.

I have noticed after taking that protein powder that contains probiotics and prebiotics that my baseline has been better. But its hard to judge as time goes on, is it time making me feel better or what I am taking? This issue really needs to be looked at scientifically to help sufferers of PAWS make a comprehensive game plan to get better.

In regards to long term use, yes it totally does lower your stores of dopamine but it also over stimulates your receptors like you mentioned in a past post. Our bodies have to relearn how to produce as well as receive the neurotransmitters and ensuring that we give our bodies all the proper building blocks and get our microbiome in check, we can heal more efficiently. Just like erectile dysfunction, chronic pain is a symptom of PAWS due to neurotransmitter imbalance/low quantities/sensitivity issues.
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#19

Postby leavepawsbehind » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:02 pm

biohack9 wrote:
JimBob8873 wrote:Chronic pain is related to low neurotransmitter levels like dopamine.... vegan or other high quality protein source?


Vegan and high quality protein source should not be in the same sentence! lol

I'm just curious with all of the PAWS issues.... did all of you quit COLD TURKEY?

Long term usage lowers baseline dopamine levels in long term heavy users, but I didn't know that could be linked to chronic pain? Makes sense!


I quit cold turkey without thinking I was quitting anything or going to have issues. I was sick of smoking and decided to lay off of it for a few months. Had no idea that I would go into withdrawal and then protracted withdrawal.
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#20

Postby biohack9 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:00 pm

JimBob8873 wrote: In fact its much better for you than whey.

That's interesting, since whey is the most bioavailable. Plant proteins don't even come close. Regardless, they are both processed crap IMO.


And i'm sensing that many of these issues and PAWS are related to cold turkey, which I personally think is WAY too extreme for a heavy dependency and throws the body and brain way out of homeostasis for way too long.

I understand the mental challenges of tapering, but there is a very good reason this is done for psychotropic medications, and cannabis shouldn't be any different.

That's the only reason i'm tapering down with CBD and 3.5:1 cbd:thc because i've done the cold turkey and went for 90 days, and it just wasn't healthy.
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#21

Postby leavepawsbehind » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:20 pm

Go to any benzo support forum and you'll find many people who go through long tapering protocols still suffer from PAWS. We're here to support each other, not blame people not tapering.
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#22

Postby biohack9 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:26 pm

leavepawsbehind wrote:Go to any benzo support forum and you'll find many people who go through long tapering protocols still suffer from PAWS. We're here to support each other, not blame people not tapering.


You're comparing benzos to Cannabis?? I didn't say that tapering would prevent PAWS, but potentially make it much less intense.

And your perception is off... i'm not blaming anyone, and am all for support!
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#23

Postby JimBob8873 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:44 pm

Benzos, alcohol, weed, etc. all have the potential for PAWS, tapering off might work, however there is still potential for PAWS to strike regardless of how long you tapper for.... Heroin is a prime example, people go on methadone for YEARS to try and get off of heroin and even after they are done with the protocol, will still have PAWS.
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#24

Postby biohack9 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:51 pm

JimBob8873 wrote:Benzos, alcohol, weed, etc. all have the potential for PAWS, tapering off might work, however there is still potential for PAWS to strike regardless of how long you tapper for.... Heroin is a prime example, people go on methadone for YEARS to try and get off of heroin and even after they are done with the protocol, will still have PAWS.


Again, I don't think you can compare all drugs the same, especially benzos and alcohol. Think about it more like psychotropic meds like I originally said - you simply cannot stop a drug like Seroquel cold turkey. People kill themselves because of this stuff.

All i'm saying is that a slow gradual taper might create much less of a homeostatic imbalance and thus less chaos in the neuro chemistry.
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#25

Postby leavepawsbehind » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:06 pm

The reason I brought up benzos was because early on in my withdrawal, many of my searches for my withdrawal symptoms led me to the benzo buddies forums. That was a great resource during the most trying times of my withdrawal and PAWS and gave me a great framework and mindset going forward with the challenges coming from cannabis PAWS. Of course the action on your neurochemistry is different, but many of the symptoms of protracted withdrawal are not, and the suspected cause of PAWS is similar.
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#26

Postby ashthewarrior7 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:51 am

A lot of chronic pain, especially on the fingers went off after I cut out diary (not just lactose, dairy altogether) from my diet. Sugar and oily food too. Milk solids especially (alot of products gave milk solids)
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