He's asking me over

Postby newlife2018 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:51 am

I need advice. I'm tired of being alone. With that being said, I'd rather die alone than to be "sampled" by another man ever again. I literally am not willing, under any circumstance, to have sex again until feelings are made clear... either through an organic development of trust or sincere verbal communication.

I'm 43...I guess I'm not that bad physically but cannot seem to enter into a serious relationship. I want to get it right. I don't mind taking a risk, but not another one where I'm "sampled" and abandoned. Once again, I really would rather be alone.

I met a guy only 5 short days ago. He's nice looking, reportedly employeed, looks pretty together. We spent all day together Saturday and had a great time shopping and going to eat and then ended it over wine at a nice restaurant. We both went to our own homes that night ending it with a little hand holding and a hug. It was great. Loved it.

The next day, he asked me if I wanted to go to church with him of all places. Church. It's been two decades since a man took me out and bought a bottle of wine. It's been two decades since a man invited me to church. I think it's worth mentioning that he admitted to only have started going to the church three weeks earlier. It's also probably worth mentioning we had a conversation that day also about how he had only been out of a serious relationship for three weeks and it did hurt, but he was sick of wasting time being alone and mourning these kinds of losses.

Here's where I get confused. The following day, he started texting me letting me know he really wanted to see me and wondered if I would... sigh... come over and watch a movie. Sounds absolutely wonderful, I like comfort and privacy and kissing when I feel like it as much as anyone but the dreaded "come over" often has meant, in my experience: let me test your boundaries and see how far I can get until I've gotten far enough to make you feel bad about stopping me and you can go home with your resolve completely compromised. And maybe I'll want to be your boyfriend but maybe not.

But I am 43, I am single, so maybe all this saying no to the come over question is what's keeping me single. I get asked it a lot lately and have declined by saying things like "it's late" or "I have an early day tomorrow." I believe somewhere down the line, my generation of women were taught this makes someone come after you more... that's not happening. They're slipping away into oblivion. It has me wondering whether those 2-3 wonderful dates we usually have had before the inevitable "come over" should be good enough to... well... come over.

So I did just that. I came over to watch a movie. I did not realize that he wanted to watch it in his bed. Said he just does it there because his roomAte comes in and out and he didn't want to deal with it. So I threw all caution to the wind and got on his bed to watch a movie. I like cuddling... what girl doesn't, so I did not pull out the Swiss Army knife I had tucked in my jeans pocket and stab him in the eye when he pulled me close. Truthfully, it felt wonderful... loved it... it's what I want to do too... I just like understanding intentions through time and organic development of trust but does anyone have the patience for that anymore?

So the cuddling felt great and I started to just relax but then the dreaded hand up my shirt, on my stomach.. the innocent start I feel ridiculous declining...that gradually started moving north. But I stopped it there and wiggled away and said "slow down." And he stopped, and we continued cuddling... finished the movie. I got up. He gave a tour of the rest of the house, showed me all his gadgets and whatnot, walked me to my truck and gave me a very respectable kiss and then texted me goodnight with a kissy- heart. No problem. This was nice too.

The next day, today, he texted a few times asking about my day. That's nice. He then asked me if I wanted pizza and a movie tomorrow? I'm pretty sure he means "come over again" and we're not actually talking about a go out in public date. He originally said he wanted to see me tonight. I told him he could meet me for a walk... but he declined and said he's tired but wanted me to come over there. I blew it off altogether for tonight but believe he's still expecting me tomorrow night at his place for pizza and a movie... probably in his bed again.

Let me make it clear if I have not already... there is no way I want to have sex yet with this man I just met not do I want to get him all worked up just to shut him down. I can resist sex all day because I just got tested for every STD out there for the first time in years after walking around for those years believing it was impossible that I could be clean with my rugged past, knowing I've had sex with men that I discovered had STDs, but through a miracle, I am actually clean. I like knowing I'm clean. I also am drawing nearer and nearer to God daily and know that this sex crap with practical strangers shuts that down. It just does. I don't even want to try to explain it to anyone that doesn't understand.

So my question for men... sorry ladies... I think we are all kind of delusional about what men really want...including myself. Especially at 43 with only a few failed relationships behind us....so my question for the men is.... is it ok to just go over his house and be completely resolved to keep wiggling my way out of second base? Is there any possibility that he got the hint the first time and really just likes to cuddle as much as I do? Or am I just being stupid and should politely decline telling him that I'm not really wanting to go into his bedroom this quickly? I no longer want to write men play by plays on how this could work if he just spent more time getting to know each other. Personally, I'd rather get to know him with those big ol comfy bear- arms around me. But I've been told over and over, by women mainly, that going to a guy's house is sending him the wrong impression and if I want him to take me seriously, I need to insist on public environs. I have been lately.. and I'm single. Very very single. But let me state one more time, I'd rather just die single than to be sampled and abandoned again. However, if this is a reasonable avenue men employ to test their feelings, cuddling in privacy and talking, I'm totally in. So I don't want to keep ruling out every Tom, Dick and Harry that asks me to their house. Help!

Thank you. I know I'm setting myself up for some ridicule
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:42 pm

Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is going to follow the same script. The ‘pizza and a movie’ or ‘Netfix and chill’ for the modern version is nothing new. Neither is 1st, 2nd, 3rd base.

The script, like most established scripts, are mutually understood by all parties involved. When Tom or Dick invites you over, they believe you understand the script. If you don’t want to follow the script, don’t accept the invitation.

You are being silent.

If you want to change the script tell the other person. Do not blame or otherwise believe the guy should not follow the established script. He assumes you understand. He assumes that at age 43 you are well versed in the script.

Do yourself and him a favor. Be honest about what you want. This saves both of you time.
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#2

Postby tokeless » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:41 pm

I concur with Richard really. He's a mature adult as are you. He's perhaps wrongly assuming you know the 'game' by now hence you're accepting the invite. Add to this lying on his bed watching a movie... What else would he assume. Hand on your stomach? What else would he assume? You ignore that move so he goes further.. When you stopped that, there was a perfect opportunity to say how you felt and what you're looking for, ie a relationship more than a brief encounter. Men can't read minds, so you need to tell him what's on yours. BTW, I'm not blaming you but at 43 you can't act 16 in these matters.
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#3

Postby newlife2018 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:19 am

I get it. I understand. I don't understand the script though. I did tell him what I wanted after church. I told him I just want to move slowly physically. I don't know if I want a relationship with him. I need weeks, perhaps months to determine that. I tell many men this. They say something like, "all I want is to hold you." As of lately, I've said to myself "yeah right" and decline and they're gone. Gone. So after three or four turns at that I was wondering if perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps men are capable of just holding someone. I mean I told him not once, but maybe three times on Sunday and he insisted he just likes to be close. I like to be close too. And I like sex too. But I'm not sure why it has to happen so quick. I mean, there's a lot of time. I guess I was having a hard time dealing with the fact that recent dating experiences lead me down that road of "I guess that's all I'm good for." And apparently, my feelings don't matter to everyone. Life is brutal. I guess I just need to feel good about myself without anyone else treating me like I'm worthy. No, not just a few guys I can chalk up as "oh well," but 100% of dates are going this way. Thought I'd try something different. I haven't always been so slow to move, I think I mentioned that, but about 5 years ago, I slept with someone I later found out had a very contagious STD. But I didn't change my ways for another three years because I thought, "hey, if they're the ones pushing me in the bedroom with no questions asked, they must not care." No physical manifestation, just walking around aaauming I must have it. Last year I grew a conscience and stopped dating altogether. Then I got enough clarity to go get tested. I got nothing. I have no idea how I dodged that bullet but I got nothing. So I just started dating again about two months ago. Have met three men and all of them insist on "cuddling." Even saying things like, "you know, not every guy in this world just wants in your pants, get over yourself" when I decline. But I don't want to take any chances. But I decided to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and I went over again to "cuddle" tonight and got up and just left bc it was clear to me that he really did expect at least a little play. Not surprised. Just baffled by the script again. Once again, I'm clear, the script involves me being forward about what I don't want to do, them assuring me they're good with that even saying "I appreciate your values" but not believing them and just staying home and watching Downton Abbey for the 200th time all by myself. The script sucks.

I know. I sound bitter. I probably am bitter. But don't get me wrong, maybe there is a chance if I were still willing to just "get in the moment," maybe it would blossom into something real. I used to be "in the moment" a little more and out of the embarrassing number of times I was "in the moment," I did end up with a few genuine relationships, including the man I married- briefly- with the STD.
Anyway, I know you guys are both right. I should have done what you said. Thanks for your advice and time. I appreciate it. I guess I'll just stay on track in the future. Sigh. So utterly pitiful.

Thank again!
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#4

Postby tokeless » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:19 am

Hi again,
It sounds like you're looking for a romantic relationship in the main. So, perhaps you'll need to consider the venues where you may meet someone. For example pubs and nightclubs, whilst not exclusively, tend to be places with more risk of casual relationships, because alcohol is involved. Whereas, if you joined a club or group, sports etc, you meet people more socially and get to know them over time. This enables discussion about likes, dislikes and values etc.. Without the feeling of you've pulled. Also, I suggest we as people need to separate love and sex as always inclusive. Sometimes sex is just that, no need to love the other person... Fancying them helps, lol.
It also sounds like you've become a bit vigilant towards guys and are almost analysing their moves or motives and this can give off a negative vibe, so when you try to talk about your beliefs and feelings, it can come across as "she's hard work".. Some guys are just predators and that's life. The sea has many varied and beautiful fish, but it also has sharks. If you look in the right places you'll find the right guy but it can be hard as the Internet age is quick responses to things. My generation did dating more than snap chat, FB etc.
Nor sure if any of that helped, but stick to your values but accept the menu will be shorter.
Best wishes
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#5

Postby Candid » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:27 am

newlife2018 wrote:So my question for men... sorry ladies... I think we are all kind of delusional about what men really want...including myself. Especially at 43 with only a few failed relationships behind us....so my question for the men is....


This may go to the guts of it, and no need to apologise for trying to exclude women (not ladies, ugh!). Asking yourself and others What do men want? and then proceeding to ask men-only what they consider okay and not okay is coming at it from the wrong end. It smacks of desperation, and certainly when people give off desperate signals, potential partners feel free to abuse them. That's just human nature. Throwing yourself away is never going to get you what you want.

Fortunately you've been able to say clearly to "the guys" on this thread exactly what you want: a LTR with someone who feels the same way. That really isn't too much to ask, and you'll notice the men on this thread have treated you with respect. If you could bring yourself to communicate this unambiguously to the men you speak to, things would change for you.

You know yourself what's going to happen when you go to a man's home and immediately agree to lie down on his bed. You mentioned boundaries, and it's clear from your post that you have trouble maintaining yours or even knowing what's a dealbreaker for you.

I no longer want to write men play by plays on how this could work if he just spent more time getting to know each other.


No. The idea is cringeworthy. Men are biologically programmed to plant their seeds pretty much anywhere, and the worst of them make no effort to rein in that impulse. I want to put a warning in here: I've worked for many years in sexual assault agencies, and the stats tell us "perpetrator's home" is the most common location for rape; "survivor's home" comes in second.

On the subject of 'sampling' and 'being sampled', were you not doing the same thing? Because all the way through your posts there are clear signs of disempowerment, trying to figure out what They want and expect while you play defence. I get it that at 43 you have a feeling of urgency, but you need to realise your submissiveness around men is shouting the fact loud and clear.

But I've been told over and over, by women mainly, that going to a guy's house is sending him the wrong impression...


It's dangerous is what I'm saying, particularly for women whose personal boundaries are shaky or non-existent. It's not a question of whether he gets the wrong impression; he had your measure from the start. He could see in your face and hear in your voice that you weren't thrilled about going to his place and lying on his bed, but you did it anyway. This isn't a moral judgment, it's about the simple fact that we teach other people how to treat us.

... and if I want him to take me seriously, I need to insist on public environs.


No, you need to make clear statements about what you want rather than trying to figure out what he does. Day One wining and dining, Day Two church, Day Three being groped on his bed... Whew, that's a steep decline! If that's what you accept, that's what you're going to keep getting. The time to let him know "I'm not that kind of a girl" was long before you objected to the creeping hand.

I'm single. Very very single.


You might as well have this tattooed on your forehead.

However, if this is a reasonable avenue men employ to test their feelings...


Their feelings? No, you had it right first time when you wrote about men testing your boundaries: quickest way to get yourself "sampled and abandoned" over and over again.

I strongly urge you to keep your focus on what you want: respect, safety, condoms.... and if it's not on, it's not on. Don't waste another day trying to figure out what other people want. You're not gong to get "an organic development of trust or sincere verbal communication" by letting some hero call the shots then getting all unhand-me-sir when he's three-quarters of the way up your shirt.

I guess I just need to feel good about myself without anyone else treating me like I'm worthy.


No need to guess. Your feelings as well as your desires are your guide through life.
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:26 pm

newlife2018 wrote: I don't understand the script though.

Once again, I'm clear, the script involves me being forward about what I don't want to do, them assuring me they're good with that even saying "I appreciate your values" but not believing them and just staying home and watching Downton Abbey for the 200th time all by myself. The script sucks.

I know. I sound bitter. I probably am bitter.


Scripts...or script theory...is a sociopsychological concept about how people learn to interact with one another. You follow hundreds of scripts a day.

You go to a coffee shop. You get in line, you place your order, you pay, you wait a few minutes to receive your order, you say thanks. No one ever handed you a script. You learned it through observation and a few repetitions.

I hope you are not bitter about a script. I hope you don’t hold it against the baristas or other patrons that the “coffee script” is what it is.

You know the script, the barista knows the script. You know the barista will offer you to add a muffin to your order. If the barista asks if you want to add a hammer with your coffee, that would be odd. That would be off script. You don’t expect being asked to add a hammer and so it would take a few moments to process.

As tokeless noted, people are not able to read minds. If you don’t like being asked to add a muffin to your order you must tell the barista. The barista will honor the request, modifying the script just for you. But, the next barista, the next coffee shop and it’s back to the same script. They don’t know you don’t like being offered a muffin.

Being bitter because you live in a world where you don’t like the script isn’t going to work out very well. Plenty of people get mad or bitter at the scripts that exist. Plenty of people curse the world.

Ever hear of “incels”? These are young men that curse the world because they are ‘involuntarily celibate’. They are men that have watched too much pornography, played video games, and never developed the self esteem to ask a woman on a date so they feel rejected. They don’t like the dating script. They are bitter that they must put in effort and face the potential of rejection of women. Women should just give them sex upon request, right?

You being mad or bitter about the dating script isn’t going to work out for you any better than it works out for an “incel”.

My advice is for you to stop being so passive. Candid notes you are submissive and I agree. Instead of you being the sampler you see yourself as the sampled. You see it as them deciding if they want to be with you, not the other way around.

At 43, get active. Know what you want and don’t waste time using the standard dating script. If you want to find someone to cuddle with, that enjoys cuddling just as much as you, it requires an active, targeted search. It requires you putting in the hours to screen potential mates, with you in charge of what you are looking for. Sign up for some online sites and be up front in your profile what you are seeking. Within a handful of messages you can decide to go on a date or move on. You can be the one doing the sampling.
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#7

Postby newlife2018 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:28 pm

Wow. What nice people you all are. Was almost afraid to read for fear someone was going to be mean.
I find the insight very realistic. I guess what I was hoping for is for an objective person to confirm the hypotheses I had invented which is: dating and getting to know someone for months is really expensive and maybe this guy, and the two or so I met before him were willing to "rein it in" in return for an adorable, educated, pretty stable lady for a while provided they didn't have to drop $20-$100 every time they got together with me. Maybe, since it's either 100 degrees or 30 degrees outside, and like me, they probably have exhausting jobs so going for a long walk in the park or an outdoor flea market is just not sounding so great. Or maybe that barista at Starbucks makes so much noise tossing coffee- making machinery around in a mad rush to fill the orders makes for an annoying place to talk and bond. As a woman with no real objective other than to get to know someone, and yes, see how they feel without the risk of pregnancy or of a permanent medical condition (which I don't know it the Internet is lying to me, but I believe even a condom is not going to prevent everything) I just wanted to see if we were actually on the same page and I'm throwing away opportunities by being so rigid adhering to this strange script. After all, a man like him doesn't have to do much to get laid other than go to the local dance hall and point at some girl in a tiny skirt who is obviously ready. Why even go through the trouble to do anything more? I tested my hypothesis that maybe I was getting it wrong.... maybe at my age, I no longer have to say "Hey, I really want an LTR, I don't know if that's with you, but we will need to spend weeks at your expense ( because I only bring home enough to cover bills ) trying to determine this in order to pay for the climatized, relatively quiet places I need to be in order to decide because our houses are off limits." With that being said, I do realize it was stupid to accept his bedroom when he had a perfectly nice living area. Who cares about his roomate coming in and out? Duh???
Yes, I know there are groups and clubs out there where I could meet like minded people. I read about them all the time. They are a little more prevalent in metropolis areas than here, but we got a few. I went to a few. Who shows up for these clubs? Women. Maybe if I hung around for years, I'd make connections that would lead to connections leading to more connections. How freaking exhausting.

Anyway, I am on a dating site. That is how I've managed to meet so many men in a short period of time. My profile clearly states what I want... as far as my tiny little brain can ascertain, it sounds clear to me: "I want to be someone's friend first. I'm not looking for immediate romance." I figured "romance" was a clear enough word. I figured maybe one man a month might message me and that was fine...but I don't think it matters what I say on there. This is not my first time on dating sites. I could stick to interests and hobbies, I could spell out the not wanting to fool with anyone who has an aversion to LTRs, it doesn't matter. I get the same thing.
Anyway, I'm not getting the "good morning" text I've been getting all week. I'm sure the inquires of how my day is going and the silly banter are over too. I'll just do my best to chalk it up as I tested my hypothesis that you can go over and forget about a "script" that I'm sorry, seems to reduce some men to something that I've been taught, and should know, but was hoping that 1) we're older now, maybe he knows a little about what I want and what I don't want as much as I feel expected to know about him and can somehow meet in the middle and 2) maybe we actually want the same thing and are just too brainwashed by some set of rules to ever get it.
As smart as I want to appear, I know I don't sound that way. I have a few friends that adhere to the set of rules and things they should know and avoid anything that compromises them. Attractive, stable, intelligent, healthy women around my age. They've been avoiding even the tiniest of red flags for years. They go to church, participate in local groups, avoid night clubs and They are very very single too. Unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that the only real hope if wanting an LTR ultimately is to just do "it" already and hope they come back for more. No thanks. That's where I'm at now anyway. Going to go back to just letting men foolishly drop $50 at some corporate chain restaurant on me for two to three dates before they realize that as feeble and testable as my boundaries sounded, I really did actually mean them. So no more coming over. I'll just deal with the annoyance of that process followed by the inevitable come over invitation and say no and deal with that predictable vanishing act another few years until maybe I can finally afford that camper and travel to naturally beautiful places that seem like a reasonable close second to the joys of an LTR with Mr. Right.
It seems like what the conclusion is, as helpful as dealing with reality can be, is that as a woman, I need to be clearer than I ever wanted to be about what I want. Straightforward, honest and clear while understanding that men reserve the right to BS for a week or two about what they want. I used to think men who were upfront and said "hey, the only thing I know right now is in your pants" were pigs. I actually have respect for them now. This is a good way to avoid wasting both of our time. I'm actually still friends with some of these guys.
Alright, I get it. You all were trying to help. I appreciate it. Thank you. It is helpful. The clarity I receive is I can keep on keeping on in a very confusing dynamic remaining hopeful or I can be bitter.... or I can keep focusing on the camper and maybe use sw of this wasted energy finding a second PT job to get me closer to realizing the close second best thing in life to genuine love with a man.

Thank you again. I will be safer. I'm sure I'll be over this guy in three days and I will remember the script is real next time. Just so you know, I didn't receive any replies until last night, after coming home from the second "come over and watch a movie" invitation or I may have decided differently. Your respect and willingness to advise a stranger for free is noble. It was a good movie though: The Upside. I, for one, actually watched it so there's that. Thanks again.
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#8

Postby tokeless » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:13 pm

My profile clearly states what I want... as far as my tiny little brain can ascertain, it sounds clear to me: "I want to be someone's friend first. I'm not looking for immediate romance."

This brought back a memory from my wilder days. A girl I was after said this to me once. I replied I was looking for great sex, because I've already got plenty of friends. She liked my directness... If you know what I mean.
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#9

Postby newlife2018 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:11 am

I get it. Have been pondering it off and on all day.
I am clear. It is absolutely necessary for a lot of men to get started quickly as far as their concerned. Truth be told, in a perfect world where people were guaranteed to consider how you feel, I would too. Maybe later, but not now. I just got off that rough road a little over a year ago. It's not that important to me. I already know I'd rather stare at the wall all day than be used for sex again. It's too heartbreaking and it's pretty likely if the rush is that big, despite all biological drives, it won't go anywhere anyway.

Kudos to you for being honest to her. Honesty is refreshing. It probably took her about 1 day to get over you as opposed to several months if she had given in just to find you weren't that interested after all. I'm assuming you probably weren't really. But you did the absolute right thing. Good for you. She probably respects you a lot more for it despite the initial blow.

He did text today and I replied but that was it. He's blown up my phone begging to see me every night all week so this one text a day now isn't going to cut it. I already got another date set up for tomorrow with a guy I work with who is substantially older than me but is kind and goes to church. We've already been out three times over the past few months and he has not been anything other than a gentleman and I do have fun with him in spite of the age difference. Of course I'd rather have Mr. Hotty Pants "come over" guy but he's got too many options to slow down. I got too many options too. I could get invited over ten times by the end of the night by logging into the dating site based on absolutely nothing other than I'm mildly attractive. No thanks.

Thank you all again. I know what I need to do. Be patient and if it happens great. But also be ready to do things on my terms in spite of rejection.
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#10

Postby Candid » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:22 am

newlife2018 wrote:dating and getting to know someone for months is really expensive...


This is where you're getting it wrong. It astonishes me to find women still thinking this way.

Of course if you expect a man to pay whenever you get together, he will expect sex in return! It's called prostitution and belongs to the dark ages, when only the poorest women went to work; the middle classes weren't allowed to. We still haven't reached pay parity, but if you're both earning, you should both be paying.

This is where the notion of 'romance' gets us, causing anxiety on both sides. The quickest way to a long-term relationship is through friendship, a phenomenon starting out between equals. You find someone with whom you have something in common, preferably lots of things, and it unfolds from there without one party having to shell out all the time while the other feels the need to say "I want to get to know you first".

After all, a man like him doesn't have to do much to get laid other than go to the local dance hall and point at some girl in a tiny skirt who is obviously ready. Why even go through the trouble to do anything more?


Sad but true. Today's single woman mostly believes 'everybody's doing it' and that if she wants to be treated as anything better than a hole for him to put it in, she's going to die a virgin at 90. This puts way too much pressure on her to be sexy at all times and with all comers whether she enjoys it or not.

Thing is, a quick bonk with a stranger is most emphatically not what you want. Who cares if every other woman in the dance hall takes on half a dozen men in the car park? That isn't you, and if you 'win' some bloke while not being you, you'll soon regret it.

maybe at my age...


This is a recurring theme in your posts, and I'd like to float something with you. I got married in my 40s and I soon realised I'd been tricked by my hormones. Even though I'd never wanted children, the last of my eggs had other ideas and for the first time in my life I had an irresistible urge to settle down, yeeeuch. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade him in for anyone, it's just that I'd be happier living across town and seeing him two or three evenings a week. On the whole marriage is a far better deal for men than it is for women, and the irony is it was I who pushed for it.

I think maybe we need to clarify what you actually want when you say LTR. Do you mean marriage, exclusive sexual rights, chief bill-payer or just someone who'll stick around after you've sampled each other? Do you have trouble making friends, and worry about a lonely old age? Or could it simply be your remaining eggs doing a final fandango?

I no longer have to say "Hey, I really want an LTR...


Thank goodness for that! It's about the unsexiest opening statement I can think of, and if you've been leading with that I'm not surprised you're still single.

Yes, I know there are groups and clubs out there where I could meet like minded people. I read about them all the time. They are a little more prevalent in metropolis areas than here, but we got a few. I went to a few. Who shows up for these clubs? Women. Maybe if I hung around for years, I'd make connections that would lead to connections leading to more connections. How freaking exhausting.


There it is again, rush-rush-I-haven't-got-time-for this. It's the desperation that's exhausting, not the people you meet.
Thing is, we can't help displaying our dominant desires. The men you meet can feel the urgency coming off you in waves, so who can blame them for getting down to it on Day Three? And there also, unless I'm very much mistaken, is your feeling about women: "Who shows up for these clubs? Women." That sounds contemptuous, to me. I hope I'm wrong, because a woman who doesn't like women obviously doesn't like herself.

I'm wondering what kinds of interest groups you went to ... or were they really 'clubs'? Again, you need to know your agenda. If you hope to meet men that way you probably need to choose a blokey interest group, maybe carpentry or car maintenance, and then you'll be disappointed when they treat you as one of the boys. Point is, when people make friends in groups it's because they chose one that represents an interest they have. You don't go along to meet the love of your life, you go because you have a passion for knitting, bee-keeping or whatever it is.

But what I'm sensing is that you don't want to make friends, you want a long-term male fixture in your life. That sets you up for "I am on a dating site", something I wouldn't touch with a stick. Men and women on dating sites have only one thing in common: they don't know how to let a friendship develop organically. Don't know about you, but it's my hunch that anyone whose best idea is a dating site is not going to be fun to be around for long.

I know the people who hang out on dating websites say they haven't got time for dating, or maybe they find it exhausting.
This is because the focus is on finding someone -- anyone , apparently, as long as it's the right gender -- with no inkling as to whether you're going to like each other. To me, this looks like the slow way to go about it. It could take years, or never, before you find someone you want to spend the rest of your life, or a big chunk of it, with.

My profile clearly states what I want... as far as my tiny little brain can ascertain, it sounds clear to me: "I want to be someone's friend first. I'm not looking for immediate romance." I figured "romance" was a clear enough word.


I don't think it is, in fact as a profile I consider this downright disingenuous. It's a dating site, not a friendship site, and if you haven't already got a friend you're a Poor Relationship Risk. Far from being clear, "romance" is a euphemism here, because romance is precisely what you are looking for, and as soon as possible. It's immediate sex you don't want, and any horny male with half a brain will spot that right off.

This is not my first time on dating sites. I could stick to interests and hobbies, I could spell out the not wanting to fool with anyone who has an aversion to LTRs, it doesn't matter. I get the same thing.


That's because you're wasting your time there, and time is the main problem, isn't it? I can see the conundrum: you don't want quickie hook-ups, you want a LTR -- but you haven't got time to let a friendship develop naturally and you seem to have shot yourself in the foot by excluding half the human race.

maybe we actually want the same thing and are just too brainwashed by some set of rules to ever get it.


You're quite right: the majority of men in their 40s want LTRs as well. As noted before, marriage is a better deal for them than it is for us. They don't want to be out there having anonymous sex, either, and they have precisely the same fears that they won't be able to 'pull' forever. So what's the best way to find each other?

Not on dating sites, for certain. The most effective way to find a LTR is in the course of things you do for interest, necessity or pleasure. IOW, seek and ye shall NOT find. Forget the frantic hunt for a man and begin to nurture yourself as you wish to be nurtured. Interests and hobbies will keep you absorbed and give you something to talk about; having to work at a particular job, love it or hate it, puts you among people with built-in common ground; taking yourself out for a treat once a week or once a month will put a sparkle in your eye. Just don't be thinking, whenever a man talks to you, that he might be The One. And don't be thinking, whenever a woman strikes up a conversation, that it's a waste of your time.

as a woman, I need to be clearer than I ever wanted to be about what I want.


Yes, try that -- and preferably not on a dating website.

I used to think men who were upfront and said "hey, the only thing I know right now is in your pants" were pigs.


You were right. They were, and I'm appalled that you now have respect for these pigs and consider them friends. Perhaps you'll be surprised to learn that no man has ever said that, or anything remotely like it, to me. That brings me back to what you may have missed in my previous post: that we teach other people how to treat us. Accept insults and sloppy manners, that's what you'll get more of. Expect better treatment and you'll get that, too.

You're awfully jaded, sister, and we're not exactly seeing high self-esteem shining out from your posts.

I didn't receive any replies until last night, after coming home from the second "come over and watch a movie" invitation or I may have decided differently.


I hope so!

Work on expecting the best and accepting nothing less. Then you'll be less cynical about Other People of both genders, and just as happy without a partner as you think everyone else is with one.
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