International Women's Day

#15

Postby tokeless » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:28 am

Candid wrote:
There are women building roads and fighting wars. Most of us don't want to!

Oh to have the choice eh? In an equal world you'd be made to do it because it needs doing. Women fought for the right to fight on the front line alongside men.. Do you get to choose if or when you want to, or was the achievement about having the right to? Men don't so women should be made to too.
Considering men are supposed to have the power and control, why haven't we sent women to battle and build the infrastructure.. You could do it, so why haven't we told you to/let you/made you/asked you to?
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#16

Postby Candid » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:06 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:So all progress towards things that you support are always the result of the hard-working, active feminists tirelessly fighting their male overlords.


The Pankhursts? Direct. The right of women to earn at least some money, if not as much as men do? Indirect. When men went off to war, women went to munitions factories. When men came home, most women returned to tending hearth and home. It's co-operative, not competitive.

you say that as a card-carrying feminist that you want equality. You want equality...but not if you don't want to. How nice and convenient.


Do I detect a sneer? Equality ≠ sameness.

Men build, men mine, men farm, men fish, men do jobs that require risk


Women do, too. An increasing minority of men happily stay at home and look after the young. Not you, Richard, but many. I think this is a good thing, the right to choose how one spends one's life. Do you not?

... and physical labor that as you have stated woman don't want to do.


Have you not heard that childbirth is the most painful thing a human can experience? I have. Never fancied it myself, but millions of women do. That more than anything is the reason most women hate the idea of war. What, spend nine months waddling about, give birth in agony, be on call 24/7 for a few years then our sons want to throw it away on some bloody battlefield?

Men commit physical violence at a much higher rate than women. You want to equalize that,


I'd like it to stop, but you crack on if you want to pretend feminism represents a physical threat to you.

Men get longer prison sentences on average for the same crime as a woman. Want to equalize that?


If women are committing the worst two crimes, murder and rape, why not? The number of Aileen Wuornoses can be counted on one hand, probably one finger. They made a film about Aileen and titled it Monster. If we made a film about every man who rapes and/or murders, we wouldn't have time to watch anything else.

90% of people in jail are "the colonizers".


They are??? I guess you chose not to see what the cited 90 per cent was about: a UN survey that found ninety per cent of people are biased against women. So here it is again: https://www.france24.com/en/20200306-ne ... tudy-finds. It might give you some idea what feminists of both genders are up against.

You want to equalize that, but not by having women participate equally.


Equal participation and equal right to choose, I say. I've never thought conscription a good thing. Let men and women go to war if they must, but give the rest of us the right to stay out of it.

Where, Richard, have you got the impression that feminists want to oppress men? I don't know any who do; certainly not I.

Males (the colonizers) are 3x more likely to commit suicide. You want to equalize that?


Absolutely! I'm a member of both Exit International (Australia) and Dying With Dignity (UK). If someone wants out, I believe they should be accorded that right. Gender is irrelevant.

Women live longer than men on average. Want to equalize that? Nah, most don't want to.


I would infinitely prefer to die young, even right now, than spend 20 or 30 years powerless in a nursing home. I (briefly) did overnight shifts in elderly 'care', and let me tell you the residents of both genders hated it. Funny how we all talk as if dying -- something we'll all do -- is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. It isn't. Mary Shelley spent decades mourning her beloved Percy, living long after all her children were gone, too; and she asked (in writing): "How have I deserved this?"

So it's confusion (or willful misunderstanding?) akin to being labelled pro-abortion. I am not. How could I be? I am pro-choice. If you think feminism is about forcing people of either gender to do what they have no inclination for, you are much mistaken.

And all this because I asked, with my tongue firmly in my cheek, that men desist from violence towards women for just one day a year. Go on, ask me whether I'm prepared to desist from knocking any men about or having my wicked way with them on November 19. It'll be a pleasure, and I'm almost certain I can get the Sisters on board.
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#17

Postby Candid » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:17 am

tokeless wrote:Oh to have the choice eh? In an equal world you'd be made to do it because it needs doing.


Is someone making you take up arms or lay down tarmac, tokeless? Feminism would gladly object to the former on your behalf. And yes, I've done plenty of work I hated, in order to pay my way.

Women fought for the right to fight on the front line alongside men.. Do you get to choose if or when you want to, or was the achievement about having the right to? Men don't so women should be made to too.


There have always been male conscientious objectors. I would be a female one, certainly. I would not kill my brothers, no matter what. Go ahead and shoot me.

And does it really need doing? You sure about that? Plenty of people have told me that if men had never gone to war, we'd all be speaking German. I don't see why I would have a problem with that. Germans don't seem to mind.

why haven't we sent women to battle and build the infrastructure.. You could do it, so why haven't we told you to/let you/made you/asked you to?


Go ahead and make me, if that's what you want to do. I will want to say no to you, and naturally I will do so. I don't see how you could make me take aim and fire, or lay bricks, without standing right behind me with your hand covering mine on trigger or shovel... and that would seem a bit pointless, wouldn't it?
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#18

Postby Candid » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:32 pm

We have different attributes. We're complementary, and life works a whole lot better if we're also co-operative.
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#19

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:36 am

Candid wrote:We have different attributes. We're complementary, and life works a whole lot better if we're also co-operative.


100% agree.

And blaming broad groups of people, e.g. the 1%, Bourgeoise, Jews, blacks, Muslims, or men, and painting them as the root of any problem, systemic or not, is none of the above.

Candid wrote: I guess you chose not to see what the cited 90 per cent was about: a UN survey that found ninety per cent of people are biased against women. So here it is again: https://www.france24.com/en/20200306-ne ... tudy-finds. It might give you some idea what feminists of both genders are up against.


I see it Candid. And I will tell you without a hint of doubt that 100% of people are biased against women. The UN survey is wrong. They simply didn’t ask enough questions or the right questions to get the 100% result. I will also tell you without a hint of doubt that 100% of people are biased against men.

If I put out a survey with enough questions that asks how long a prison sentence should be for a crime, which gender should fight in war, which gender should get custody of a child, etc. etc. we can easily get to a 90% rate of bias against men. To get to 100% just ask the right questions and in sufficient quantity.

Should we be surprised by these results? Absolutely not. Look at what you acknowledge above, “We have different attributes.” Different attributes leads to bias.

You now how I know this Candid? Because bias happens to be one of the most well studied areas in decision research. And bias also happens to be one of the most misunderstood psychological concepts that people repeatedly use to reinforce a particular worldview.

There is a misconception that all bias is bad and that bias must be eliminated across the board. There are organizations making tons of money selling “debiasing” training. What an absolute waste.

But if we can admit to ourselves that not all bias is bad it takes us back to square one. Once again we are faced with acknowledging the elephant in the room and that the science of bias is not the solution for humanity in resolving issues of morality, of right and wrong.
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