my now-former close friend

Postby calvinTO » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:46 pm

Hi all.

I've written about Mike here before. Here is some background if you want it: viewtopic.php?t=107697

After that situation, as I outline in the background, I ended up connecting again with Mike in 2019 (i forget exactly when), and things went very well. I promised myself not to push his buttons and he seemed to have picked up on this, and he likewise didn't push mine. Great.

With the recent covid crisis, I've been telling my friends, very nicely, not to send me covid news. I find it unhelpful and upsetting, as there is little I can do but foillow the rules (stay home, 2 metres, etc). I look at the news once a day for about 10 minutes to get updates and that's it.

I told Mike this. He sent me an email, though, telling me how bad things were etc etc. He seemed a bit unnerved, but then again, he always seems that way. He has a partner at home, long term, he is likely getting laid off work, but he is financially very stable, so no worries there.

I wrote back and countered his narrative and said, nicely but firmly, that he might do well from refraining from consuming so much news that he has little control over. And I said, nicely but firmly, to please stop sending me covid informtion as I found it upsetting and not productive.

Here's what he wrote back. I haven't responded, and I'm not going to. I suppose I should have followed my hunch last year and just let the relationship die. I won't, here, defend myself against what he says. But this is cruel and I am sad and angry and hurt. Here it is, in full:


Sent it because I wanted you to be safe. Careful.. So from now on I don’t care what you do. As for the situation not being soo bad...do you read the numbers? They are saying we can become like nyc. Is that not so bad.yes the world survived the spanish flu,yes the world survived aids,yes your poor mother suffered as did so many other innocent people through a terrible war..but did everyone survive? And those that survived do they not bear scars,trauma,ptsd. Bad things do happen in the world,not every day or every decade,but they do happen, and if you listened to the pm this morning he said this is the worst scenario since World War Two. Is that ok,this too will pass? How many will die before this passes?poor thousands upon thousands dead nyers,not my problem. This will pass...

But mostly I intensely dislike when someone tells me what I cannot say or think. If you start to read something that is beyond your sphere-delete immediately and move on. But when a friend writes with only the best intentions and you insist on censoring them,as you have done to me many times in the past and to many other people over the years,then I don’t want anything to do with you. I refuse to play friends with you when it always has to be by your rules and that is the history of our relationship.

So I’m saying goodbye for the time being-you’re a total control freak,you have always been one but I tolerated it all these years because you were my friend and I felt it was beyond your ability to change .

But no more-it is so offensive to me for you to tell me what i can and cannot say.. Again just delete and shut up and ignore. Don’t tell me what I can and cannot do. It’s no wonder you have so few friends,your boundaries are so overbearing and petty who would want to come near you. And yes,this is something I should have told you twenty years ago so I’m saying it now.
Goodbye.
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:11 am

calvinTO wrote:With the recent covid crisis, I've been telling my friends, very nicely, not to send me covid news.


This is not how friendships work Calvin...at least not in my world.

I have a few hundred friends. Am I suppose to keep a list or notes on each friend to keep track of the things that I am not supposed to send each of them? Or is it just a mental note that I am supposed to track?

Sally told me nicely not to send her information on new diets.
Bob told me nicely not to send him information on global warming.
Tim told me nicely not to send him information on soccer.
Amy told me nicely not to send her information on politics in the United States.
Calvin told me nicely not to send him information on the virus.

Is the above how it works in your world Calvin? Do you keep notes on all of the different requests that your friends make about what you can and cannot send them?

I don't.

In my world I don't have to keep track of what Calvin or Sally or Tim have each asked of me as to customize what information I may or may not send them.

Do you know why I don't have to keep up with all of those nice requests Calvin? Because my friends don't make those types of requests! EVER!!!

My advice is for you to take a step back and to try and figure out why you felt it so important to nicely request to your friends that they don't send you information on the virus. Why do you feel that it is appropriate to place that expectation on your friends? Why do you feel that imposing a rule, however nicely, on your friends is a good thing?
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#2

Postby calvinTO » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:17 pm

You're on my Ignore List, and just to remember why, I read your post.

I've made a pretty specific request in light of the events that are going on, and I don't think that Mike has such a galaxy of friends that he can't remember what I asked.

And why I asked what I asked -- had you actually read my post -- is that hearing unncessarily alarmist covid news causes me a good deal of anxiety. This is the only thing I have ever asked him. It's called "establishing boundaries." Ever hear of those?

No, you obviously haven't.

Now, you can go back to dispensing lousy advise to other unfortunate people on this list. And you're now back on my Ignore List.
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#3

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:44 am

Dear reader, don't be like Calvin in life.

Presumably, Calvin will never read this message as he has retreated into whatever "safe space" he requires to deal with the horrific words that I typed. Don't be like Calvin. Don't be that person who is so incapable of hearing opinions they disagree with so much that they isolate themselves from the world and alienate their friends.

And isn't it laughable that Calvin can easily place a person on the "ignore list" but he apparently is incapable or lacks the ability to ignore messages from friends about the virus? Seems odd that he can easily ignore one, but not the other.

My opinion is that Calvin is seeking attention from his "friends" as Calvin chose the dramatic option with his "friends" by trying to impose rules on them. That's how how a person that is wanting to draw attention to themselves tries to manipulate people and make a situation all about them. "Woe is me," cries Calvin, "don't send me messages about the virus as it is just too much for me to process."

Poor, poor Calvin.

Again dear reader, learn from Calvin. Don't be like Calvin.

Conversely, maybe dear reader, you also want to avoid being like me. That is an equally fair observation. I am not without my faults. Regardless, feel free to post whatever opinions you wish. I might not agree with you your opinions, but I will not place you on any ignore list, I won't run to any safe space, I won't make any demands of how you should or should not communicate with me.
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#4

Postby Candid » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:31 am

calvinTO wrote:hearing unncessarily alarmist covid news causes me a good deal of anxiety.


I'd be nervous if I didn't know what was going on, but that's me.
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#5

Postby quietvoice » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:45 pm

Candid wrote:
calvinTO wrote:hearing unncessarily alarmist covid news causes me a good deal of anxiety.

I'd be nervous if I didn't know what was going on, but that's me.

I'd be nervous as well.

Thing is, calvin, what is going on today is larger than all of us; it has taken over the entire world. You can't hide.

What is even more distressing is knowing that there's more to this than the media admits to you, even as what they admit to you are blatant lies. Look behind the curtain, if you dare.

Anybody who cares about their freedom is paying attention. This is revolution time, and you are NOT going to escape it by telling your friends to not send you emails about it.

This is the time to "raise your consciousness" about everything in your life.
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:42 am

I wonder how the Calvins' of the world would have handled the world before the Internet?

I imagine during the Spanish flu in 1918 Calvin licking stamps to attach to letters he sends out to each friend asking them not to communicate anything to him ref the flu. A neighbor comes up to say hello and Calvin stops them, "Please, before we have a conversation I want you to know that I don't wish to hear about the flu that is ravishing the country. It makes me sad."

I'm sure in 1918 there were plenty of Calvins then as there are now. Just a different form of communication.

quietvoice wrote:Anybody who cares about their freedom is paying attention. This is revolution time, and you are NOT going to escape it by telling your friends to not send you emails about it.


As for freedom quietvoice, I don't know where you are currently but I'm in China. I'm pretty sure that whatever freedoms you think that you are "losing" in exchange for protecting and saving the lives of those more vulnerable than yourself are -1- minimal and -2- temporary. In China, a place not known for individual freedoms, government restrictions were lifted after 5-6 weeks.

If you think now is the time for revolution, I question your timing.

I think now is the time for you and your neighbors to voluntarily sacrifice a few freedoms to help your community. But, then again, I'm not sure what you are dealing with. Is the military marching down your streets? Are you no longer allowed freedom of speech? Has your right to vote been repealed? Tell me, what freedoms have you lost that you fear will never return?
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#7

Postby Candid » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:19 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:A neighbor comes up to say hello and Calvin stops them, "Please, before we have a conversation I want you to know that I don't wish to hear about the flu that is ravishing the country. It makes me sad."


Here I take the point that the person avoiding a major topic ends up thinking about it all the time.

I'm pretty sure that whatever freedoms you think that you are "losing" in exchange for protecting and saving the lives of those more vulnerable than yourself are -1- minimal and -2- temporary.


I'm sure you're right. No government wants the kind of economic mess we have in the making, and for which future generations will pay dearly. Any suspicion of a diabolical global plot makes no sense.

In China, a place not known for individual freedoms, government restrictions were lifted after 5-6 weeks.


By my calculations the UK is about halfway through this. Feels a lot longer. As predicted the infection rate is escalating despite lockdown and social distancing. I understand this is because people are often asymptomatic for a long time and there's no testing in the general population.

I'm a bit concerned about Our Boris, and I have to say Chuck looked a bit green when he (remotely!) declared a brand new 4000-bed hospital open for business. Definitely looks like a place to be stayed away from. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52150598

I think now is the time for you and your neighbors to voluntarily sacrifice a few freedoms to help your community.


Yep, we have that dinned into us constantly. Are you saying China is now the way it was before covid-19 struck? Are you in an urban area?
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#8

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:34 pm

Candid wrote: Are you saying China is now the way it was before covid-19 struck? Are you in an urban area?


I’m in a city of 1.2 million people with 15 story apartment buildings on every corner. By Chinese standards it is a small city.

Hard to put a number on it, but 90%+ of business has reopened. In China, even without a virus 10% of the population uses masks for smog. During the last 6 weeks 100% of people were wearing masks. It is now maybe 70% of people wearing masks as there is more traffic on the streets as businesses have started up again. Schools are still not open and there are still some restrictions on travel between provinces. International travel is still restricted. If I leave China I am currently not allowed to re-enter. If you go into a coffee shop they take your temperature and you politely use hand sanitizer.

So is China 100%? No. But compared to two weeks ago things are ramping up very quickly.

I hope this provides a light at the end of the tunnel.
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#9

Postby Candid » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:05 pm

Thanks, Richard; yes, it does. I gather we're in for a scary time as the infection rate keeps increasing exponentially before it starts to level off.

There've been a minority of twats showing how tough they are, inspiring the health minister to say we won't be allowed out at all if they keep it up; and one got 12 months' jail for spitting in a police officer's face right after declaring himself infected. Just letting off steam, I suppose.

I hope Calvin's found some soft sand to put his head in until better days come again.
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#10

Postby quietvoice » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:33 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:I think now is the time for you and your neighbors to voluntarily sacrifice a few freedoms


This video (on facebook) will help you see the bigger picture. It was streamed live on YouTube yesterday (and was promptly removed).

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#11

Postby quietvoice » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:46 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:I think now is the time for you and your neighbors to voluntarily sacrifice a few freedoms




Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
~~Benjamin Franklin

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#12

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:19 pm

Way to take Benjamin Franklin WAY WAY WAY out of context quietvoice.

If you are going to use a quote to try and make a point quietvoice, learn what the person was actually referring too.

You do realize Benjamin Franklin founded a government, right? You do realize that every form of government, including the very government Franklin helped found is a balance between individual liberty and collective safety, right?

So instead of avoiding the question by referencing a cute quote that doesn’t apply, tell us which liberties you have sacrificed that you fear you will never get back and that are cause for revolution?

Never mind, you can’t. You have not lost freedom of speech or the right to vote. You have not lost any liberties outside of possibly some temporary freedom of movement so that a deadly virus that has a 11% mortality rate in some places doesn’t kill the elderly or others more vulnerable than yourself. Great job buddy.
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#13

Postby tokeless » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:32 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Way to take Benjamin Franklin WAY WAY WAY out of context quietvoice.

If you are going to use a quote to try and make a point quietvoice, learn what the person was actually referring too.

You do realize Benjamin Franklin founded a government, right? You do realize that every form of government, including the very government Franklin helped found is a balance between individual liberty and collective safety, right?

So instead of avoiding the question by referencing a cute quote that doesn’t apply, tell us which liberties you have sacrificed that you fear you will never get back and that are cause for revolution?

Never mind, you can’t. You have not lost freedom of speech or the right to vote. You have not lost any liberties outside of possibly some temporary freedom of movement so that a deadly virus that has a 11% mortality rate in some places doesn’t kill the elderly or others more vulnerable than yourself. Great job buddy.


I agree this quote is out of context and sometimes, situations like this or war call for certain measures for the greater good. However, they should be temporary and after the event they should be repealed. If they aren't, then that can be more sinister if not explained. Look at the world pre and post 9/11... the patriot act and the changes contained within it.
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#14

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:01 am

tokeless wrote: Look at the world pre and post 9/11... the patriot act and the changes contained within it.


I agree with you.

My honest question, what “essential liberties” were taken away or restricted post 9/11?

My answer. I’m not entirely sure, because whatever “essential liberties” were lost it appears to be not very transparent. I’m not a fan of the FISA court and I do believe there are some issues that need to be addressed, but the idea we even know about FISA and that we know about the Patriot act is evidence that there is some oversight.

I personally have not experienced the loss of any “essential liberties” since 9/11. Have you? Sure, flying is a bit more of a pain, it costs a bit more and you need to arrive at the airport a little earlier, but no “essential liberties” have been sacrificed to my knowledge.

And I know there are some rare issues with people caught up in the “no fly” list debacle, but that too is brought out in the media and adjudicated in the courts.
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