What's The View On Vague Gender?

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:19 pm

Reading Grunya Suhareva's brilliant analysis of her patients, I notice in Russian and German research, Asthenic personality type often comes up. The issue of gender is noted. It seems to me that a more neutral gender is often viewed biologically but I think it can be psychological. I assume when no specific gender type gains dominance during childhood, the person may develop to maturity as between gender. Androgynous will do although I think mostly androgynous people tend to have biological attributes. As I said, I think psychological factors also play a role as we tend to follow our role models.
Any thoughts on neutral gender? Women who feel more normal in shirts and trousers. Men who don't have a deep voice and perceived as "girly" for want of a better word.
Does everyone here feel totally at ease with their gender?
Been a bit busy of late and possibly this theme may be of not much interest.
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:14 pm

My view is that "vague gender" impacts a minority. Like other minority populations, e.g. those with disabilities, I think it is a good idea for society to be accepting and support "reasonable" accommodations.

Allowing a man to reduce his testosterone and then brutalize a woman in a mixed martial arts competition is NOT reasonable. The below link shows the violence.

https://caldronpool.com/transgender-mma ... t-a-woman/

From a biological standpoint, even if we agree on a spectrum (male -> less male -> neutral <- less female <- female) the vast majority is male/female. A good rule of thumb is if a person is born with the organs to carry a child, i.e. a vagina, they are female. This seems to work for the majority. If the person was born with a penis, but "feels" like a woman, more power to them, but they are not and never will be female. At best they are transgender.

That there are other than male/female genders is a biological reality. I think any reasonable person will concede the evidence is clear that male/female is too simplistic and inaccurate. And whether or not there is a biological basis for a man born with a penis to feel like a woman is irrelevant. Even if we could trace the cause to other than genetics or biology, e.g. to nurture, so what? Live and let live. Treat your fellow human with respect. Do what you can to include them in society and reasonably accommodate their needs.
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#2

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:51 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:My view is that "vague gender" impacts a minority. Like other minority populations, e.g. those with disabilities, I think it is a good idea for society to be accepting and support "reasonable" accommodations.

Allowing a man to reduce his testosterone and then brutalize a woman in a mixed martial arts competition is NOT reasonable. The below link shows the violence.

https://caldronpool.com/transgender-mma ... t-a-woman/

From a biological standpoint, even if we agree on a spectrum (male -> less male -> neutral <- less female <- female) the vast majority is male/female. A good rule of thumb is if a person is born with the organs to carry a child, i.e. a vagina, they are female. This seems to work for the majority. If the person was born with a penis, but "feels" like a woman, more power to them, but they are not and never will be female. At best they are transgender.

That there are other than male/female genders is a biological reality. I think any reasonable person will concede the evidence is clear that male/female is too simplistic and inaccurate. And whether or not there is a biological basis for a man born with a penis to feel like a woman is irrelevant. Even if we could trace the cause to other than genetics or biology, e.g. to nurture, so what? Live and let live. Treat your fellow human with respect. Do what you can to include them in society and reasonably accommodate their needs.

I agree with you. Totally. Of course, there are cases where someone really has major surgery and the result may be very authentic. Specifically though I have androgyny in mind. The person is just in between each gender and probably couldn't be one or another. Funnily enough even Madonna claimed she feels unusually masculine and got a lot of ironic comments over her "trapped in a man's body" remark. Likewise, could you have imagined Michael Jackson employed as a dock worker? He was very androgynous.
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#3

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:31 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote: Specifically though I have androgyny in mind. The person is just in between each gender and probably couldn't be one or another. Funnily enough even Madonna claimed she feels unusually masculine and got a lot of ironic comments over her "trapped in a man's body" remark. Likewise, could you have imagined Michael Jackson employed as a dock worker? He was very androgynous.


Assuming you are correct, did/does Madonna or Michael Jackson require special accommodations by society for their "vague gender"? I don't think so. Dependent on how they, or anyone else, portray themselves it is reasonable that people will address them as Ms. or Mr. and treat them correspondingly.

I see very few circumstances where androgyny is an issue that requires society to create some special caveat. Wear a dress one day and pants the next. Enjoy.
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