Always consult professionals - PAWS update

Postby PAWSsurvivor » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:15 pm

Hey everyone,

I thought I’d share what may be an important update for me. Might help some of you as well. Battling all this PAWS stuff for awhile, but it’s hard to know where the line is between this long term withdrawl hypothesis, and simply symptoms of extreme anxiety.

Well I’ve had this unnerving fuzzy head feeling for a long time. Dull headaches, sporadic tinnitus, pops and crackles in my head. And pins and needles. Mostly in my head and sometimes elsewhere in my body.

Well I’ve been doing my best to just live life and move on with acceptance that it just takes a long time to get over weed, but I went to my dentist, and she sees clear evidence of Bruxism ( jaw clenching, and teeth grinding). I have pops and clicks, which points to having TMJ disorder. Brought on by you guessed it...anxiety. TMJ can cause all the symptoms I’m having.

So they are making me a night guard, and I’ll wear it while I sleep for 3 months to retrain my jaw to relax at night.

I do hope it works. But also, it’s nice to get clear answers. My doctor, therapist, and eye doctor, didn’t put part of this puzzle together, but my dentist did.

If you have similar symptoms as I do, it may not be a bad idea to ask your dentist about teeth grinding and TMJ. It can happen unconsciously while you sleep. So you may not even be aware.

I’m also aware it may not be the entire solution, and it may be PAWS / anxiety but it’s nice to have a solid path forward. And that someone else can verify these awful symptoms I’ve had. Certainly in recent months, my symptoms seem to be connected to my jaw. Like I’ve noticed flare ups after eating hard foods, lieing down in certain ways, etc.

Good luck everyone. I’m on month 13. I honesty feel and hope this might be the last thing I need to feel better.
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:32 pm

So anxiety -> is the suspected cause of teeth grinding which -> has knowingly caused TMJ. A nice causal chain.

The dentist recommended medical solution is a night guard. Good info.

For anyone interested, here is a solid review of the science on Cannabis Withdrawal Syndrome published in 2015.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/fu ... 61.11.1967

Regarding “Time Course” here is what the professionals have found thus far.

“The onset of cannabis abstinence symptoms has consistently been observed during the first 1–2 days postcessation of cannabis or oral THC administration across several inpatient and outpatient studies (25, 30, 31, 39–41). In the only two outpatient studies that examined extended periods of abstinence, peak effects typically occurred between days 2 and 6 (39, 41). Most symptoms appeared to return to baseline or to comparison-group level within 1–2 weeks, with moderate variability noted across symptoms and individuals. Most abstinence symptoms followed a transient pattern, peaking shortly after cessation and returning to baseline over time. Sleep problems, particularly unusual dreams, did not return to baseline by the end of a 45-day abstinence period and thus cannot be classified as transient (41). Irritability and physical tension also did not return to baseline during the 28-day abstinence study (39), although irritability did return to baseline in the 45-day study (41). The observation that most transient symptoms returned to baseline and comparison-group levels, combined with the exclusion of persons with psychiatric disorder from these studies, suggests that these abstinence effects are not rebound effects indicative of the participants’ condition before initiation of cannabis smoking. In summary, a well-defined time of onset, peak, and duration has been defined for several symptoms.”

Reading the entire study I think they did a fairly thorough review. They discuss controlled experiments using primates as well as both inpatient and outpatient studies.

What I think is really positive to consider is that most symptoms are resolved within a few weeks.
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#2

Postby PAWSsurvivor » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:04 am

Yes, i still don't know what quite to believe. The early months were so painful, and my dissociation was so high that I thought I had schizophrenia. Fortunately that wasn't the case. It's hard to believe it was just "Anxiety". It was like I had a daily electrical storm in my brain.

One of my Doctors believed me when I said I had a long term withdrawl, but now months later he says he thinks I have an anxiety disorder. Maybe it's all the same.

I do wish though when I mentioned to him my "pops and crackles" he hadn't been so dismissive of it. My dentist was quite concerned.

Ah well, I really do feel mostly like myself these days. I'm sharp, quick witted again, and in control of myself. it's just my head feels fuzzy / headachey and fuzzy / weird. And the pins and needles feelings sometime stress me out. Hopefully this night-guard will do the trick and I can report back with something tangible for people to try.

I had a TMJ massage last night from a massage therapist. He pushed a specific spot inside my jaw, and it immediately triggered pins and needles in my foot. Tells me I'm on the right track. Something is going on there. I do feel better today having received it. I must have lots of tension up there.

Time will heal me, and night guard might speed it up.

Good luck everyone. Keep on being healthy.
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#3

Postby Lightweight » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:45 am

I got the pops and crackles plus the bangs sparks and fireworks. Never want to see those times again. 4 years ago. Good luck
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#4

Postby PAWSsurvivor » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:40 am

Same here Lightweight. I hope those days are long behind me and I can be 100% again in a year or less. Glad to hear they are gone for you.
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#5

Postby SparkleFly12 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:39 pm

Good to hear you are getting some relief.

PAWS does cause anxiety, so its not surprising to have any symptoms that general anxiety causes.

Im at 18 months and have minimal anxiety, but other physical symptoms still remain; they seem to get better with time. Just slowly.

It sucks to be one of the very small percentage of people that get PAWS from weed, but thats who we are. Stick with it.

Id recommend watching the first half of the lecture "Addiction & Cannabis - Timothy Fong, MD | UCLA Health Cannabis Research Initiative" on youtube. Its a research group that is investigating cannabis effect on humans. They openly admit they dont know if PAWS is a thing with weed; since it just hasnt been studdied. But they know many of the symptoms we experience from PAWS is from weed withdrawal. Its an interesting group Im following but they seem to slowly be catching up to the types of things that people like us discuss on this and other forums.
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#6

Postby Head in loud » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:12 pm

I would suggest not listen to your doctor but then you might think I’m one of this crazy people. When I was few months in and went to my shrink he told me “marijuana withdrawal last only 14 days you might have bipolar and we should try some medication.” Thanks God I didn’t listen to him. I’m two years+ In and things are much much better although not 100%.
I would suggest not be so hard on yourself and learn to accept and love yourself.(key is to love oneself) give yourself time and meanwhile eat geeks and healthy.
Good luck!
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#7

Postby tokeless » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:47 pm

Head in loud wrote:I would suggest not listen to your doctor but then you might think I’m one of this crazy people. When I was few months in and went to my shrink he told me “marijuana withdrawal last only 14 days you might have bipolar and we should try some medication.” Thanks God I didn’t listen to him. I’m two years+ In and things are much much better although not 100%.
I would suggest not be so hard on yourself and learn to accept and love yourself.(key is to love oneself) give yourself time and meanwhile eat geeks and healthy.
Good luck!


I'm intrigued by the desire to feel 100% the same as you were before smoking weed as the only goal that implies you've recovered fully. If you have done xyz for years, you will have changed regardless of the activity... because we all change over time. I don't think or feel the same as I did 5 years ago, so after 35 years I can't think or feel the same. This is why I suggest acceptance and just get on living with who you are now. Work on that person, don't chase your shadow self who has long gone. Its the same with life generally. I can't do what I could in my 20's, 30's now I'm in my 50s.. should I try to go back, full of regret and anger because I want to feel that way again or just enjoy my current state?
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#8

Postby PAWSsurvivor » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:32 pm

To be clear, my suggestion is to "consult" and not to always listen. One doctor offered me an Ativan months ago and I turned it down. I'm glad I did. However had I never went to the dentist and told them about my symptoms, I may never got something as non invasive and benign as a night guard. I know while most of us get a clean bill of health from Dr and a diagnosis of Anxiety, I do know of some people who have went to the Dr with PAWS and have found other underlying problems that you wouldn't expect (like viral infections). Sometimes one problem can amplify another. Also the eye doctor really calmed me down when I learned I didn't have a tumour or anything like that. I read once that it can be a good idea to go to the doctor with a friend or advocate, so you don't get pressured into doing something you regret while you are vulnerable.

It's all good Tokeless, I'm living my life. Thanks for your concern. I'm going to work, exercising, working on home projects. I don't stay at home depressed and I don't avoid any situations. I'm making sure to take care of myself like I used to before all this happened. In the past 2 months or so especially I can look back and say that yes my life is returning to it's old ways before cannabis, even if I feel not quite right. I can have acceptance of my current situation while working on a goal of improving my health. So far the only barriers this condition causes me is dietary changes (No coffee), and just some less stamina, focus and an occasional bout of excessive anxiety (which I'm now much better at managing). I'm sleeping very well, the world just seems a bit fuzzy and foggy right now. I look at this problem in 3-6 month intervals. Make a plan for 3 months, and just go with it, and then check in to see what I think is helping and what isn't. I even consider fixing my financial situation (which has improved alot) as part of the solution of being less anxious and improving my condition.

I have a best friend who went through this many decades ago. She told me it all goes away (it took her 2 years). And she is a great vibrant fun person now. I have many saved stories on my phone. So I will remain hopeful even if it takes 5 years.

Wish you all the best. Keep being healthy.
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#9

Postby tokeless » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Hi,
My comment was general and not specifically about you. It's an observation from many posts on here about not being 100% back to normal. I'm pleased you're doing well as with everyone.
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#10

Postby PAWSsurvivor » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:49 pm

Thanks Tokeless, have a good day!
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