New Test For Neurological Variation

#75

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:31 pm

"What I don't understand, with his extraordinary memory, is why he is (as you say) "unteachable."

Answer is: 99 per cent of people learn through the process of interaction with other people. You will find most people need someone to "personally" transmit knowledge. Mother, father, teacher, friends.
Asperger children had a complete emotional blockade. They don't react to praise or rebuke by changing their resonse or conduct. The part of communication based on emotional imput is blanked out. That leads to all around failure to respond to usual educational mechanisms. That's why the Asperger children were removed from regular school.
However, a percentage of these children were all the same intelligent. Some went deep into their own world and learned what interested them. Not what others dictated but what they had an interest in. Being cut off from the world around them, the children evolved highly individual thought mechanisms. As if when you have myopia, your hearing compensates.
Asperger realised part of this could be of value. It regulates excessive rote-learning and sticking to one path. We need deviation from normality.
What's been lost though is the fact these children were still highly problematic. Asperger believed only a minority could stand a chance of having any future.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5


#76

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:56 pm

A good way to detect Asperger's is via mimicry. Till recently I never understood the term. Basically, it means how facial expression reflects emotion. I started to study this when I watched my Dallas DVD boxsets. I notice women tend to use greater mimicry. Smiling and rapid eye fluctuation. Each emotional impulse causes facial movement.
With Asperger Disorder normally facial expression is deadpan. Eyes are unexpressive. Overall, the face is a mask. The person talks into space and not "to" someone.
And that's not all. There is voice modulation. A normal person injects tone and pitch into speech. Whereas Asperger speech would be monotone and flat. Overall effect is robotic.
In truth for me, if it's classic Asperger Disorder, I can detect it pretty quickly. Even to a layman something will be evident or very *odd" from the outset. I know one guy who often shops where I live and I would be pretty sure he is Aspergic. The female shop staff find him very "creepy" and his facial expression is weak and flat. Also excessively polite and awkward. His biggest mistake is to stare at one of the girls he finds attractive but unaware it's too obvious.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5

#77

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:06 pm

Currently been reading Asperger's sources. Trying to decide on Kretschmer's views on hormones and his distinction between emotions and personality. It was Kretschmer who outlined the schizoid types of personality but he received criticism for confusing personality type with clinical conditions. I concluded the term "schizotimik" fully corresponds to what people now refer to as "Aspie" - a term I came to dislike. The "schizotimik" was a normal person who had schizoid traits but not Schizoid Disorder. Such people were thought to be capable of becoming schizophrenic or schizoid in the event of great stress or illness. They were nervous ectomorphs. So for sure, I now feel safe stating history repeated itself. Future essays will make this very clear. Added to that my own approach borrows from how the brain will function as a transmitter pretty much along the lines of an electrical oscillator. This is a step away from the focus on glands, brain fevers and biology as a whole. I detect Asperger had some awareness of this due to his occasional comments on voice modulation. Recently I watched a clip of a researcher who was exposing people voluntarily to electromagnetic signals while they dreamed. The signals created various hallucinations or strange dreams which I thought demonstrates how the brain functions electrically. What Nichola Tesla had stated many decades ago.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5

#78

Postby davidbanner99@ » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:50 pm

Research now going very well. I was curious to discover three or so Schizophrenia traits I have. This is of interest since German psychologists in the essays I now read outline connections between Schizoid Disorder and Schizophrenia. This is genetic. According to them children would show early signs of Schizoid Disorder prior to Schizophrenia. Genetic prevalance would show both Schizoid as well as full Schizophrenia in family history.
The traits I recognised that apply to me are racing, disconnected thoughts. In such a case, thoughts change rapidly and conversation seems to jump back and forth. However, personally I find it doesn't stop me processing information.
Another interesting symptom connected to Schizophrenia is sensation of smell. Where the person smells odours others fail to notice or register. This happened to me in childhood but spiritualists and psychics call it clairolfaction. Indeed there are cases where the sudden odour of perfume turned out to be connected to someone real. Someone who had passed away. There is also a sub- type of Schizophrenia where a patient acts very foolish in company or behaves oddly. This symptom was described by Suhareva in her papers on Schizoid Disorder. Of course, my knowledge of Schizophrenia is far more limited. All I know is that Kraetchmer and Schneider saw a connection between the two and it was found ectomorph body type more often corresponded in such cases, as opposed to endomorphs.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5

#79

Postby Candid » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:19 am

davidbanner99@ wrote:With Asperger Disorder normally facial expression is deadpan. Eyes are unexpressive. Overall, the face is a mask. The person talks into space and not "to" someone.
And that's not all. There is voice modulation. A normal person injects tone and pitch into speech. Whereas Asperger speech would be monotone and flat. Overall effect is robotic.

I can confirm that: husband tends to monotone monologue. It fits with "unteachable", because if I have something to say there's often no indication he's heard me before he launches back into his train of thought.

That's caused a lot of bad feeling over the years. I often say "Can you acknowledge, please?" but it never seems to sink in. He'll repeat word-for-word the last thing I've said, but there's no indication he's actually 'heard' me.
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9093
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 443

#80

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:19 pm

Candid wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:With Asperger Disorder normally facial expression is deadpan. Eyes are unexpressive. Overall, the face is a mask. The person talks into space and not "to" someone.
And that's not all. There is voice modulation. A normal person injects tone and pitch into speech. Whereas Asperger speech would be monotone and flat. Overall effect is robotic.

I can confirm that: husband tends to monotone monologue. It fits with "unteachable", because if I have something to say there's often no indication he's heard me before he launches back into his train of thought.

That's caused a lot of bad feeling over the years. I often say "Can you acknowledge, please?" but it never seems to sink in. He'll repeat word-for-word the last thing I've said, but there's no indication he's actually 'heard' me.

This symptom has led psychologists to read a bit too much into the assumed "lack of empathy". I had an old friend from school communicate about the severe illness of his wife. I guess I hardly responded and that can cause rifts. It's assumed you don't care. In reality, it's a case of the outward information not going in and registering. Myself I think all of the time and that tends to stifle external communication. The secret to improvement is awareness of your defects at an intellectual level. I am very aware I tend to steer conversation in the direction that interests me. I'm aware it makes for bad relationships. I may even try to put the brakes on my monopoly during conversation or even try to say something kind. Such as one friend's father is seriously ill so I may ask her how he's doing. I had to learn this the way normally you'd learn a dictionary definition. I'm still too abnormal, however, to ever readjust. My goal is more based on self-acceptance and self awareness. Also the idea of using my compensation traits to advantage such as musical pitch and deep concentration. Also finding patterns in what I read.
Just as a sidenote, recently I found Charlene Tilton had set up an autism aid association. Charlene starred in Dallas but I read her family life had been tough as her mother suffered Schizophrenia. She got the part in Dallas through Larry Hagman of J.R. fame.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5

#81

Postby Candid » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:53 am

davidbanner99@ wrote:I hardly responded and that can cause rifts. It's assumed you don't care. In reality, it's a case of the outward information not going in and registering.

I'm aware it makes for bad relationships. I may even try to put the brakes on my monopoly during conversation or even try to say something kind.


Very occasionally my husband astonishes me by knowing so much of what I've told him, so it's not a case of information not registering. If I get stuck on what happened when, he can give me exact details. TBH it's often more like living with a human tape-recorder.

I learned about empathic response decades ago when I was training to be a counsellor. Most of the class were women, and we'd all been doing it naturally for years. The few men in the group needed to practise, practise, practise once they'd got the theoretical framework. And aspergers is chiefly a male thing, right? I know one woman with aspergers and she's great to talk to.

My husband, obviously, is no kind of a counsellor. By the same token, there've been three deaths in his family in the past few years, two of whom mattered a lot to him, and he hasn't really talked about it. A couple of times his eyes have filled up when mentioning his father—but my 'theoretical framework' simply doesn't work for him. He doesn't 'do' feelings, and that's it.
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9093
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 443

#82

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:18 pm

Candid wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:I hardly responded and that can cause rifts. It's assumed you don't care. In reality, it's a case of the outward information not going in and registering.

I'm aware it makes for bad relationships. I may even try to put the brakes on my monopoly during conversation or even try to say something kind.


Very occasionally my husband astonishes me by knowing so much of what I've told him, so it's not a case of information not registering. If I get stuck on what happened when, he can give me exact details. TBH it's often more like living with a human tape-recorder.

I learned about empathic response decades ago when I was training to be a counsellor. Most of the class were women, and we'd all been doing it naturally for years. The few men in the group needed to practise, practise, practise once they'd got the theoretical framework. And aspergers is chiefly a male thing, right? I know one woman with aspergers and she's great to talk to.

My husband, obviously, is no kind of a counsellor. By the same token, there've been three deaths in his family in the past few years, two of whom mattered a lot to him, and he hasn't really talked about it. A couple of times his eyes have filled up when mentioning his father—but my 'theoretical framework' simply doesn't work for him. He doesn't 'do' feelings, and that's it.

To develop my knowledge further I need to dwell into Verschroben. This was the very first term used by Kraepelin. Maybe I can get the German text via some Russian translation. I'm finding the very dated research to be better. I find symptoms there not referred to in modern texts. One point that interested me was feminine characteristics. However my own take on this is it can be caused by lack of identification with role models. Normal girls latch onto female role models whereas boys may want to be like Chuck Norris. Autistics don't connect to any gender role model so may develop asexually. With Schizophrenia too this was noted. Suhareva often tested glands for irregularities. As well as blood counts. I think the advantage of the older psychology is the researchers were less inclined to worry over causing offence. Today there is some fear of discrimination so a lot of details get skipped over.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5

#83

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:47 pm

I now have access to some very useful research I can use to add to Asperger's essays. This term "Verscroben" is important as it describes what Asperger himself researched years before he was involved. Much Russian research relies upon German sources.
I ran this through Google Translate for speed. Verscroben was used by Grunya Suhareva to diagnose children in her clinic in 1925. I figured by studying this diagnosis in German history I might dig out aspects of the disorder that would possibly have escaped Wing.

"A detailed phenomenological characteristic of the discussed Verscroben was first presented in 1891 by J. Koch in the monograph Die psychopathischen Minderwertigkeiten (Forms of psychopathic inferiority). The author (he also deserves the credit for introducing the term "psychopathy") noted that the Vershrobens "seem to have a special stamp on their faces that distinguishes them from ordinary people - they are extravagant (lit. -" dislocated "- German" verdreht "), ceremonial, prim, pompous, pretentious, unnatural, constrained, awkward, unsociable. "

I am currently bogged down by Prof Alexander Tiganov's explanations he bases on some dated sources. This research is very useful but I hope to sift through what's relative and what isn't. What matters to me is that Verscroben is the original Asperger Disorder and that the research of the time was first class.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5

#84

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:49 pm

Best research into autism and schizophrenic conditions seems to be of German origen. A good deal of that was translated into Russian which helps me a lot personally. So, what's interesting is Asperger Syndrome was described by German psychologists in the early 1920s. Originally it was mostly viewed as the negative aspect of Schizophrenia. That side that doesn't include loss of reality and hallucinations. So, descriptions of this type of Schizophrenia seem to me to summarise Asperger's in more detail:

"Patients have a lack of their own self perception (awareness of their own individuality through comparison with others). Patients do not understand that they are behaving inadequately, they talk about their strange actions, habits and hobbies as a matter of course. Knowing that among relatives and colleagues they are known as "eccentrics", "not of this world", patients consider such ideas to be incorrect."

A huge step forwards, therefore, in management of this neurological variation is for the individual to be able to make comparisons of self related to a standard of normality. So, personally speaking, although I still get noticed as being very odd and strange, or slow and awkward, I now understand what kind of behaviour triggers such a response. So, for me, it became possible to make comparisons. It has to be done via logical reasoning and not instinct or intuition. It's studying psychology in reverse when you analyse normality. All sorts of stuff normal people do such as make eye contact, alter voice pitch, show interest and react in specific, non verbal ways.
davidbanner99@
Full Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 5


Previous

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Psychology