Empath dealing with highly toxic parents - Extreme distress

Postby Somestressedguy » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:50 am

I don't know how to start this. I think I will try to make it short...
This post describes my mother with pinpoint accuracy psychcentral[dot]com/lib/11-things-you-absolutely-must-know-about-toxic-people/
My father is a bad guy obsessed with control and power he likes to put people down and control them - he likes them to complete obey him without having anything to say. I've had many issues with him and fights and I eventually did won some freedom and I've observed that after I win a fight with him he does respect that (even if I must go to extreme lenghts for me to do that because naturally I absolutely despise fighting and I preffer logical explanations and I like when people are genuinely listening to what I have to say - I don't mind them disagreeing with me but I just want them to genuinely analyze what I say and then disagree - but he is a total different kind - he only understands brute force and dominance - some sort of animalic way of proving a point). The power he had shifted to me because of my enormous efforts but I didn't even wanted to do this in the first place - I just wanted to get along with him and to have interesting discussions and agree/disagree without having to fight. I like calm people who analyze what I say and then disagree without losing their temper - But he is not at all like that. He has some sensitivity in him and he thinks I'm some highly smart kind of mad weirdo and he thinks that I stress too much about everything and I understand that too because he looks at me from his perspective and way of perceiving things but I perceive things extremely amplified and complete and he just doesn't have the ability to see what I see... But I can see what he sees(Only that, but I can't be how he is). We are not on the same page. We both want to communicate with each other but do not know how and where to find genuinely common ground. I don't hate him because I know he is wondering what's up with me. - He is a good man inside, a sad but caring soul - and on the outside he's a scarred tough but stubborn man - I know he's struggling because he had a harsh life really harsh and worked his donkey off to get a business going starting from he was just 16 going through problems in his family then the 89 revolution and managed from scratch to build one of the top ranking businesses in revenue in our country and I would always see him working. But enough of this. I should concentrate on the issue. Ok, even though he has some really good traits from when I was young he was using some toxic sarcasm on me and he used to publicly insult my mother and I felt horrible for this because I loved my mother and him aswell and as a child I wouldn't understand much. Well my mother herself was very unresponsive and empty or slow? minded - in relationship with him - what I think is that she was and fundamentally still is a sensible introvert while he was cut of different material. this built up over time and my father aggresivity got to her (he was also beating her - they were fighting often when I was just a child). I don't think either of them are fundamentally bad people or were bad from the beginning - my father has some emotional instability issues and short temper and my mother was a sensible and calm introvert - basically he coped by becoming a brute force and she coped by becoming a very malicious toxic and should i say psychopatic wasp - they are so deeply affected by those in my father's case unstable emotions and short temper and my mother some deep fear of him that those unhealthy coping mechanisms became their new personality and it is so sad. they simply cannot snap back to being normal people. my father somehow knows that there is an issue but he has led me to understand that he just doesn't care anymore and just waits for his life to end while working and doing stuff like working on a newly restored apartment and other various things. and I saw her as very loving and extremely calm some times but other times completely absent (this is how i saw her when I was a child - i think when she was absent she was re-living some trauma or just snapped out of reality because of it)., she just lived in a different world and let's just say they loved each other at the very beginning but in h He is also obsessed with order so much that he doesn't care at all about feelings and vibes and such things he simply isn't compatible with this and I percieve him as a very cold person. He is using reason only if it's in his advandage. For example, if we have a logical argument and what I'm explaining him something that he percieves above his reasoning like let's say improve something like how you should properly mount a roof he will not accept that I'm right and do the wrong thing and then undo it and do it again properly but tries every possible alternative option and only after working 4 extra hours doing that he finally admits that I was right

This is not all I have to say and I know it's comletely messy but I have written it so I don't loose the ideas - I usually become ignorant regarding these matters until I get into extreme stress states like now. and try to get some answers (idiotic i know but i'm so damaged and on a normal basis I would just try not to think about this and just try to alleviate the chronic mental pain)

ok so I have managed to quit for good drugs, alcohol and medications and i have isolated myself but this stress is just too extreme i have the sensation that my brain is just frying right now i haven't slept for like 24-26 hours and before this i wasn't getting good sleep either.

ok so now the reason why i came hereo

how can i cope with my mother if she is exactly like the post i've pasted here describes? she just gets me everytime and i don't even know if she is aware of her behaviour - i have tried telling her or pointing towards her behaviour but she doesn't seem to get it... there are very few times when she acts normal but it seems like there is no connection between those two states.- i have became afraid to sleep because i am afraid to relax because i know that if i relax i will let the guard down and she will get me again - just read the post i've pasted here and you will understand what i'm talking about. also i apologize for breaking some forum rules but i am in sever distress and i need some advice
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:28 pm

Somestressedguy wrote:... let's say improve something like how you should properly mount a roof he will not accept that I'm right...

ok so I have managed to quit for good drugs, alcohol and medications and i have isolated myself


From what you have written it sounds like you are an adult, i.e. you are at least 18 years old. You have some experience in life. For instance, the knowledge to properly mount a roof and being able to overcome drugs and alcohol is something that usually comes with experience.

So how old are you and what is your profession?

how can i cope with my mother...


It depends on the answers to the questions I asked. Your current situation makes a difference of how you cope.
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#2

Postby Somestressedguy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:07 pm

Hi. I am 25 and I have no profession. I went to multiple colleges but haven't finished one because of family problems (they were - my father - sabotaging me, for instance I would talk something with them but they wouldn't keep any of their promises or things they'd say they do even if it was their terms. They are extremely deceptive. When I was in high school I got severely bullied and my father didn't gave a sh**. I developed anxiety and depression with insomnia and asked him to send me to a psychologist but he would only get angry if I requested almost anything. It was a harsh ride I only got hospitalized when I had a psychotic break and it was an emergency and my aunt transported me there in the middle of the night - about 150 km. And the psychotic break was because of issues with them. I got in touch with an older psychologist and she helped me for free for a pretty long time on facebook but we do not talk anymore. She told me that i was raised as a dog by them and that's how they actually perceive me, as a pet and not as a child with needs and later an adult with needs of respect and recognition.
Often times they would blame me for things I didn't do or for their own stupidity even if they had no evidence. For example my mother losing her keys credit cards etc. She usually finds them later but never admits she was wrong for blaming me. If I bring this up she would just say "You always take them and I was just asking you" - Even if she didn't asked and rather told me on an agressive tone "Give me my keys back!!!" and I almost never took them.

There is much to share but I should answer your question. I am 25 now, I have very little income and I'm currently helping my father with various bank operations while reading and learning about businesses because I want to take over his business in the future. (There are lots of details on this subject aswell). I am doomed to live with my mother for 3-4 more years. As a summary, not only they did not honour their duty as parents but acted as enemies and still do. I had to find my parents elsewhere and learn from them while protecting myself from the biological ones. I just can't explain in words what situations I went through and can't describe the amount of adversity I encountered.
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#3

Postby Somestressedguy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:04 am

Additional info: I am fairly good at electronics, I went at an electronics college first and was a top student until some random family disaster struck. I've also worked for a local software company that also did hardware mount and repair, as a technician for bitdefender and game tester at electronic arts.

I've attended some architecture college and I was pretty good there too, I got free tuition and only did a few tests before admission while some other people would prepare themselves for years - Which I think is because most people have a wrong perception on logical matters and they do not trust themselves so they end up spending fortunes on extra teachers. But again I needed money for food and various materials they required at school, bus subscription tickets, taxes for dorms, etc and I eventually returned home after trying everything. My parents told me that I would get a certain amount per week every monday when my dad does the business payments but of course that didn't happen. I was lending money or food from my roommates because my parents would either send me money two weeks overdue while I was constantly having fights with them on the phone because of this matter or they would just simply refuse to send me anything, totally random, telling me that I don't deserve anything, etc. He could just made this happen automatically through bank every week and let me study in peace and I told him this but no luck. I had to quit and return home.
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#4

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:23 am

So you are a 25-year old adult male. You have skills that employers will pay you money.

Let's say all that you wrote is accurate. You have parents that for some odd reason have spent 25 years feeding you and taking care of you, paying for 95% or more of everything you have ever had in your life. Because they are so toxic, all of their time and resources invested in you was only a way to control, torture, enslave, or otherwise just be "toxic" as they make you their dog.

Regardless, you have managed through your efforts to overcome alcohol, drugs, attend college, become a top student, and develop skills that allow you to make money. NONE of your accomplishments are because your parents have tried to do good things for you. It is in spite of having these horrible parents that in your words treat you like a dog, that you gained enough education to be employed.

So here is the solution...

And don't give me an excuse that it is physically impossible. Unless you are literally in handcuffs, chained to a bed, you are capable of following my advice. Ready?....

LEAVE.

You are not trapped on a desert island, right? You are not posting this from a small ship? You are a physically able-bodied 25-year-old ADULT, with skills you can use to earn money. You can pack a bag and leave today.

But you will have to give up taking over your father's business. SO WHAT? According to you, these parents are the worst of the worst. Only because of your hard work and persistence are you so lucky to have made it this far. Certainly if you rid yourself of these toxic people you will be able to make tons of money on your own. Besides, your father is so horrible he is never going to let you take over the business. One month before you are to take it over he will burn it to the ground, just because he is that horrible of a person. LEAVE.

Think about it. WHY would you stay to take care of these horrible, horrible people that only want to feed and cloth and provide you shelter to turn you into the family dog? They stress you out so much. Every failure in life is their fault and you want to stay? That is not logical. LEAVE.

Given your toxic parents treat you like a dog, and given your talents, and given you are an adult, LEAVE. Move out. And then never, ever speak with them again. That is what a rational, logical person would do.
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#5

Postby Candid » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:21 am

Somestressedguy, I've given a 'like' to Richard's post because I agree with his solution. You've got to get out from under.

That being said, I'm familiar with your distress and I know how a bad relationship with one parent, and more so with two, saps your confidence, your vitality, even your will to live. When I was 21 my parents made an appointment with me for the evening and I went to work feeling terrified about what was to come. My older sibling had left home, and once the two younger ones were in bed the three of us sat in the living room and they told me everything that was wrong with me. The upshot was that I was to get out, as soon as possible, and come back only on Thursday evenings when we would all be present for Family Night.

I went to work as usual next day and after an hour or so I broke down at my desk. I was among friends there and they pledged their support, but they could never understand how damaged I was by being the family outcast.

Anyway, I was in my first job as a journalist and I survived on that for many years. They still messed with my head, of course, so that I was scared to put my head above the parapet, but I did okay. You will too.

I know it's not a good time to be looking for a job but I sincerely hope you'll get work in electronics or architecture, give it your utmost, get out of your parents' home and do your best to support yourself and enjoy your work.

You might also benefit from reading some of Pete Walker's work, http://www.pete-walker.com/, or joining the forum on https://www.outofthestorm.website/. But mostly, my message to you is to arm yourself with a different kind of knowledge and insulate yourself as much as you can from ongoing familial abuse.
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#6

Postby Somestressedguy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:15 am

You guys are right about leaving and I appreciate the time and effort for answering my post. For Richard, everything I said is true and I could write about it for days and still not finish. I got this far because of my own determination and other family members which are NOT my f***ing parents, that helped me overcome some situations. Things are not good at all but I will do what I can, thanks for your help.
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#7

Postby Somestressedguy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:00 am

Also, Richard, your reaction/interpretation/disbelief in what I've said is actually the main reason why I don't usually talk to anybody about it. But I don't blame you because I've read that for people that don't experience themselves this kind of abuse it's extremely hard to believe it can actually happen and thus hard to be empathetic towards the victim. So yes, people tend, in most cases, to blame the victim of abuse instead of understanding his situation and give some good-intended, objective and useful advice.
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#8

Postby Somestressedguy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:36 am

Having to grow up like this makes it very hard to leave because we are wired, or at least some of us, to be in good terms with people, especially if they are our parents. Every child must receive something from the parents but some don't, which make the abusive parents even more powerful over the abused child. The child instinctively waits for the parents to give him at least some sense of peace, love and understanding, so he can take off, but 'psychopatic', maleficent parents - which could be written without punctuation aswell because that is exactly how they act - use this to further consolidate their control.
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#9

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:40 pm

Somestressedguy wrote:Also, Richard, your reaction/interpretation/disbelief in what I've said is actually the main reason why I don't usually talk to anybody about it.But I don't blame you because I've read that for people that don't experience themselves this kind of abuse it's extremely hard to believe it can actually happen and thus hard to be empathetic towards the victim.


First, I believe you. Your interpretation of my post is incorrect. I don't blame you, because I understand that you are MENTALLY a prisoner of your situation.

So yes, people tend, in most cases, to blame the victim of abuse instead of understanding his situation and give some good-intended, objective and useful advice.


Second, I'm not blaming you. I don't blame the "dog".

Third, my advice is well intended, objective, and useful. You are not a dog. LEAVE!

Candid is a successful example. We can play the game of relative abuse/manipulation/control, we can discuss how her case and your case differ, but that will not change your solution. LEAVE!

Yes, we are hard-wired to be attached to our parents. Yes, there is such a thing as "Stockholm Syndrome". Yes, there a people that stay together in very abusive situations, e.g domestic violence. Guess what the objective, well-intended, advice would be for each situation? LEAVE!

What other solution do you believe exists? Some magical psychological potion you might drink that will change your parents? Some bit of advice that will reframe how you think so that you can stay with your parents and be okay with everything?

I'm not saying my well-intended, objective, useful advice is psychologically easy. Psychologically it is tough. I have dealt with plenty of victims with various attachments to their abusers just like you.

I'm not blaming you, but I will ask the question. When? When will you be to blame for staying? I imagine legally you could have left the home at 17. You say you went off to college. That was a chance to "escape". You could have broken the MENTAL bondage then, but you didn't. Not your fault, you were young, right? Now you are 25. Still not your fault, right? Okay...let's agree. It is not your fault. You are 0% to blame.

Now, with you 0% to blame, when will it be time for you to take action? When will you do other than just ask for advice on a forum and then reply that you are not to blame as you are the victim? Will it be when you are 26 years old, 30, 40? At what point do you step up and take 1% of the responsibility for your current situation...not for the abuse, but for your own ability to leave a bad situation?
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#10

Postby Somestressedguy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:48 pm

Hold your horses, mr Richard. I totally agree that I must leave and make my own life, but as I stated I am trapped for 3-4 more years in this situation due to LOTS of reasons(some I didn't mentioned). And also it is extremely hard. After leaving there will be a period of extreme mental turmoil having what I've experienced for so much time. I can't just leave and PUFF be okay with everything. So that makes me unable to work for a period after detaching from them. That's why I asked for some coping advice here. After leaving I must rebuild(or should I say build) my own mindset and social environment and compensate for some developement lackings by myself. So that's why I must work in this state to accumulate a bit of wealth so I can have that brief period of time for recovery after leaving. If I don't do this I will furthermore depend on them and even if let's say I leave and get a rent somewhere and let's say (even if it will not happen) they will send me money, I will still talk to them and they WILL use this to undermine me. Hope you get the bottomline of this.
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#11

Postby Candid » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:12 pm

Somestressedguy wrote:I don't blame you because I've read that for people that don't experience themselves this kind of abuse it's extremely hard to believe it can actually happen and thus hard to be empathetic towards the victim. So yes, people tend, in most cases, to blame the victim of abuse instead of understanding his situation and give some good-intended, objective and useful advice.

I agree with you, stressedguy. We have to believe in a fair world in order to function in it. People simply don't want to know this kind of thing happens.

Similarly, I work for an agency that provides free counselling to victims of sexual assault, and most people don't want to believe that happens, either. There's a widespread belief that people make it up for mischievous purposes, whereas those of us in the know understand sexual assault is the most under-reported crime there is—because of the disbelief and victim-blaming that goes on. It's actually the second-worst crime there is (after murder) and police do take all reports seriously now, but all too often it doesn't get to court. When it does, twelve good men (and women) and true will almost always favour the well-presented, quietly spoken perpetrator over the 'emotional' victim.

Having to grow up like this makes it very hard to leave because we are wired, or at least some of us, to be in good terms with people, especially if they are our parents.

Yes. And even without that, what goes on in the first years of life is crucial. Our ape-like ancestors were born with fully formed heads and brains. Since Homo sapiens evolved to have brains of a size no woman could give birth to, we're born unfinished and totally dependent. At the most vulnerable time of our life, we have to pick up our caregivers' moods, whether they cuddle us or handle us roughly, even how (if) they talk to us.

I know from bitter experience that if you say you don't get on with your parents, the best people will view you with suspicion while others will make a snap judgment that you're a spoiled brat and your parents are well shot of you. Yes, thanks to social media we see a lot of that now—and again, comparing the situation to that of a rape victim, it makes it that much harder for adult survivors of child abuse to talk about it and connect with others. My policy is to answer questions as they come (yes, mum's in a nursing home and dad's dead) but not to volunteer the fact that my relationships with family are fraught with pain. Still.

I hope you'll check out those links I posted, but that if you join the forum you won't stay on it too long. It's good to meet people who do 'get' it, but you don't want to stay there. At 25 you have a lot of wonderful years ahead of you!
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#12

Postby Somestressedguy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:18 pm

As a side note, when I worked at those companies I didn't held up for much time and I put my flesh and blood into that work but the MENTAL TURMOIL got me. They also paid very little and I could barely afford the minimum for surviving. YOU MUST take into consideration that people that have similar situations with me AREN'T mentally developed for independence as their attempts to take flight have always been stifled!
I saw some guys who were in much better situations than me regarding their relationship with their parents(but they too had their problems) and they managed to cope with working but they literally f***ed their lives and health up, becoming addicted to various stimulants, shallow lifestyle and so on.
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#13

Postby Candid » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:25 pm

Somestressedguy wrote:So that's why I must work in this state to accumulate a bit of wealth so I can have that brief period of time for recovery after leaving.

I disagree. Clearly you have to be earning enough to cover accommodation and other living expenses, but I don't believe you have to accumulate any amount of wealth before you say goodbye to your parents. Recovery time? Bah, humbug.

Throw yourself into work and get the hell away from these people. You'll recover as you work alongside others, some of whom may become your friends (or Family of Choice, as some of us say), NOT sitting in your next home navel-gazing. Once you're out, you certainly shouldn't be taking a penny from your parents over and above birthday/Xmas gifts if they offer it.
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#14

Postby Candid » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:32 pm

Somestressedguy wrote:They also paid very little and I could barely afford the minimum for surviving. YOU MUST take into consideration that people that have similar situations with me AREN'T mentally developed for independence

What if they sat you down one evening, demolished your character and behaviour for more than an hour, and finished by saying they wanted you out of their home by the end of the week?

I think what Richard's saying is that if things are as bad as you say they are, you'd be better off living on the street.

Naturally you "can't just leave and PUFF be okay with everything", but neither can you let this situation fester a few more years, or wait until you feel better before you leave. You can learn to get along with other people wherever you find yourself, but Things will only get worse if you plan to stay in your parents' home until you've got all your ducks in a row.
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