Friend is losing friends

Postby Koi_V » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:11 pm

Dear all,

this what I am about to post is a long story but quite serious. I changed the names just for privacy reasons. So Lillie and me "are" both friends of Kevin.

First part

However, about a month ago, Kevin got offended when Lillie sent him a message (see below). Basically, Lillie sent Kevin a scan of her baby with its mouth open and a text "mouth open" (the same text and photo was send to two other friends who did not get offended (me and someone else)). However, Kevin took it personally and since then his behaviour towards Lillie has been anything but nice. The outcome: He does not want to be in contact with her, even though she tried to explain that this was no offence to criticize his mouth. What can be done here? Explanations did not work.


Conversation between Lillie and Kevin
[06/12/2020, 21:15] Lillie: Thing is I don't want to speak just to be shouted at. I don't have the energy or inclination right now. So if you could change your tone somewhat then fine we can speak
[06/12/2020, 21:16] Kevin: Same to you. You have not even apologised for offending me with that mouth crap
[06/12/2020, 21:16] Kevin: When I said 'that's not nice' that was clear enough
[06/12/2020, 21:16] Lillie: There was no offence implied
[06/12/2020, 21:17] Kevin: And yet it was caused. There was no offence implied by not being available at the time you wanted me
[06/12/2020, 21:17] Lillie: I'm sorry you felt that way
[06/12/2020, 21:17] Kevin: And I'm sorry you feel this way
[06/12/2020, 21:18] Lillie: Thanks
[06/12/2020, 21:19] Lillie: But do we need to apologize for every historical joke we make? You do it about my belly, my toes etc. And I don't demand an apology because I know you do it in jest, as I know I do with you
[06/12/2020, 21:19] Lillie: As * you know I do
[06/12/2020, 21:22] Kevin: No but sometimes it's too much and if the other indicates we could stop
[06/12/2020, 21:23] Kevin: I'm sorry if I have historically gone too far
[06/12/2020, 21:23] Lillie: I don't take offence though
[06/12/2020, 21:23] Lillie: I know you're joking
[06/12/2020, 21:23] Kevin: Yes but sometimes I do take offence. We are different like that
[06/12/2020, 21:24] Lillie: And does it really matter if you think my belly is too big or my toes are too long? Does it matter if I think your mouth is too big or your ear is too small?
[06/12/2020, 21:24] Lillie: I don't think so



Something else that is very important to mention. Kevin is a middle-aged grown adult who works part-time. So he has got a lot of free-time (50%)- which he fills with "spiritual" New-Age-(nonesense). This has, especially in the past few months changed his behaviour to the negative side.



Second part
He is also about to lose me ...

First of all, he thinks he is a prophet. He has always been into spiritual stuff but recently it has been quite extreme. He also watches new age videos such as Magenta Pixie and believes in the Enneagram for which he received daily e-mails. He also thinks he can influence energetic vibrations to lead humanity, activate Stargates etc. In addition, he wants to be like Jesus.

He does not take drugs but drinks about four beer of alcohol every day in the evening which has become that bad due to Corona and is kind of a habit now - he is definitely not coping well.

So last time I visited, the weekend before Christmas, we had a total fallout. I stayed at his flat for a few days. There he has been treating me really bad (hostile) which I would pretty much consider it bullying. Complaining about things, criticizing etc. Even his housemate said that she had never seen that side of him. (She also wants to move out asap as she does not feel comfortable. She gets random criticisms and feels a bit stressed in the flatshare).

To name a few examples:

    - I once dropped a bit of chocolate ice cream on his pillow on the sofa. I said "ups" and got up in order to clean it in the bathroom. He freaked out ... When I wanted to slice the tomato, he told me I was using the wrong knife (I should have used the sharper one ...). I do not know his knives, however, the knife I used was fine. For sure I was angry about it and stopped talking for a bit.

    - When I was at his flat: Even though we settled on what to cook earlier in the day; he decided not to participate in the cooking process when we wanted to do it, as he just "did not feel like it", however, behind my back he criticized my potatoes and called them "sh**" (I rarely hear him use such words, usually never) but this is what he told the housemate.

    - Understandably, I was in a withdrawn and not energetic mood once is hostile behaviour towards me started - however, he was able to switch from a "not okay" mood to a "let's have fun" mood and this was just irritating and seemed insane.

    - Once he put on the Magenta Pixie video on TV which he wanted to show us, he started criticizing my attitude, how I was not opening up. He was praising the housemate for being interested as she was making noises like "aha" (though (I later talked to her) this noise was just made as she knows he does not like criticism - so he interpreted her "confirmation" totally wrong)..

    - Also which I am very worried about. He has a "friend", which he did not like much in the past when he was still more normal. Now that she is into that spiritual stuff; he enjoys talking to her. She claims that she can talk to/communicate with trees and he believes her! I think she is a bad influence and just a "support" for his mental instability.

    - He told me he has never felt more clear in his head.

    - On the train he was asking my why I was so negative all the time; I told him it was due to his constant bullying behaviour towards me this weekend. He then replied that this was not true, he was referring to my general energetic pattern ... I never gave him the answer which he wanted as there was not such one. He did not like that.

    - He always compares me and other friends to the enneagram descriptions. He gets his daily mails. I feel like he does not see me as an individual anymore but always tries to find truth in the enneagram. Furthermore, he (so we think) adjusts his behaviour unconsciously to that of what the enneagram says. According to the enneagram, he thinks he is the Reformer (type one) - perfectionism and tries to be as perfect ... which he is not ...

    - He once promised me (already two years ago) to show me his university photos. He never did. When his housemate was there he got them out, showed them to her, asked me briefly whether I wanted to see them. I was saying "yes" but more quietly. Then he said: If you are not energetic for it, then you shouldn't (He had already criticized me a lot at this point). At the same time, I was angry and I thought, why would you show them to her "now" and not me in the past. You have known me for much longer.

In the end, I suggested a contact pause (Here I called an anti-cult-organization and they told me to do it that way to take control which Lillie did not do, so maybe he thinks he as more control about their friendship?). This I think it is very important as it is usually him who suggests that. Basically, I have taken away control. About a week later I received a message from him:

[13:19, 2.1.2021] Kevin: Hi,
Happy New Year. I tried messaging the other day but seemed to have been blocked (again). Kann das sein? *(Can that be)
[13:22, 2.1.2021] Kevin: See it's getting through this time so I'll start by saying sorry that my (at times severe) impatience and frustration caused me to be harsh with you


****

I think he just sent me the message to take back control and to feel better about himself. But I do not think he takes it seriously. The way he phrased his message is not an apology. Words such as "impatience" and "frustration" indicate that I obviously triggered his behaviour.

Lillie and I think he has got control issues, possibly suffers from paranoia and narcissism.

What can she do to get back into contact with him as he is not insightful and not willing to talk? He hasn't even apologized.
He used to be a good friend to both of us but his behaviour is out of control right now.
Also what do you think about the situation and can be done?
Koi_V
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#1

Postby tokeless » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:27 pm

No offence meant but that post was way too long. I'm not sure why you need to 'fix' this so I would suggest moving on and leave him to sort his own head out. None of what was written is that important in the scheme of things.
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#2

Postby Koi_V » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:04 pm

There is no word limit, so I would not say it is too long (no offence).
Everybody can decide for themselves whether it is worth reading this post (regarding its length) or not.

The problem is he might not be able to sort his own head out due to the brainwashing of new-age-online stuff and the way he treats people is just appalling.

Had hoped to get some help her :/ some steps that could help the situation - a logical but psychological advice that could be applied here. As my friend was wondering how it is best to re-establish contact.

P.S. Maybe it is not important to you but to her and me. That is why we are asking for help here. And this applies to every person on this forum who is asking for help. No one should downplay the importance of an issue/problem.
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#3

Postby tokeless » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:55 pm

The problem is he might not be able to sort his own head out due to the brainwashing of new-age-online stuff and the way he treats people is just appalling.

What is your evidence for this? Does he have capacity to want to live the new age life. If he does it is his choice whether you accept or agree with it or not. All you can ask is is he okay and that you and her are worried about him... then it is his choice and yours to stay or leave the relationship.
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#4

Postby Koi_V » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:08 am

I think he wants to but he is just insane right now ... brainwashed.

I won't be getting into contact with him soon, I decided. I feel better when I am not (for now).
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#5

Postby tokeless » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:15 pm

Koi_V wrote:I think he wants to but he is just insane right now ... brainwashed.

I won't be getting into contact with him soon, I decided. I feel better when I am not (for now).


Again, what evidence do you have other than you disagree with his views? As for your second part. How would that help him seeing as that was the thrust of your initial post?
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:17 am

Koi_V wrote:He used to be a good friend to both of us but his behaviour is out of control right now.
Also what do you think about the situation and can be done?


What can be done?

You have already done what friends can do. You talk, you provide your opinion, you provide advice when asked, and then you accept.

I think where you guys are struggling is in the acceptance. It is not acceptable to you that Kevin has changed as is going down a path you consider unhealthy and/or dysfunctional. Fair enough. It can be difficult to accept that some friends will take such a path.
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