RAGE problems

#15

Postby Voyager989 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:16 pm

But isn't nearly all of your destructiveness wedded to the ritualization of Anger? The FORM you follow is that you get mad and you smash something. It's the little dance you do. Could you be happy destroying stuff if you skipped the step of appearing to go out of control?


This is very interesting point. Need to think about it. The problem is that I am always destroying stuff only when angry so I don't know yet how would it be without the anger factor. I am thinking... What if I am making anger just as an excuse and my real motivation is to destroy stuff. Hmm.. not sure if this is right. But I must admit, I have a lot of destructive thoughts in my head a lot of time. I am very quick to imagine the worst case scenario in a situation... I will need some time to digest this thought to see if it has any sense...

Thanks, for the hobbies recommendations, I think all you mentioned would fit me. I need something other than those games I play. In those games is always one who is a winner and one who is a loser. There are also games or situations, jobs in life that both parties would be winning. I need to find this kind of games. Lately I even don't have such a strong pull into those games. Yes, the spring is starting and things are starting to open again...

But yeah I also said that my goal when playing games like poker is to be able to control my anger when things don't go my way. I believe if I will control myself there, I would be able to control myself anywhere. So far, I wasn't able to do this. I wasn't able to stay organized so there is no surprise I didn't make it.
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#16

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:21 pm

Hi Voyager,

I was thinking of what you said about how nearly all of our activity choices are competitive. It really screws us up. I read of a study in which they went off to the islands somewhere to find people uncontaminated by our competitive culture and they set up a simple board game where there were only a minimal amount of squares on the board and just one piece which each player had a turn alternately moving the piece from square to square, and every time the piece got to the end of the board closest to one player he would get a dollar and the same for the other player. The islanders would ask "What's the trick?" and take turns moving the piece quickly back and forth back and forth until the Experimenters called off their very expensive experiment. But in the West the players would say "This is impossible! Nobody can win!" And the piece would stay in the middle of the board, each move being vetoed by the next players move. Conditioning in competition made idiots out of them.

Anyway, I was thinking of something fun to do that wasn't competitive. You should take up acting. Formally I suppose there are classes you can take. Yeah, I just took a look in the Self Help books, and there's books about that too. I was thinking that your hobby could be to select different personas for different parts of towns or for the different stores you go to. Be somebody different wherever you go. This would get you used to "Being In Character". You see, the trick here is that it would be useful that none of your Characters be angry or irritable .... or maybe one so you could go through the steps of anger artificially, you know, to see "the man behind the screen"... the mechanics of your anger so that it becomes demystified.

You know, so far I haven't seen anybody say so but if you did take Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to it's logical conclusion then you would tend to put all your thinking and evaluating in the service of maximizing all of your personal interests. When talking with other people it would no longer be important to be "honest" but you would be thinking "how is it best that I play this conversation?". We hear about "con men" that opportunistically go from one fake persona to another, but it is easy enough to imagine that there are scores of what we can ironically call "Self Made Men" who are idealized fabrications of what are simply the 'best laid plans' that these people could come up with. Like Andrew Yang who spend five minutes running for president and his big plan was to hand out free money (how original for a politician) but that guy was a regular 2 dimensional cartoon character, really kind of obviously just working to a simple plan, but it's amazing the number of people that took it at face value (but all the other "Phonies" saw the scam from a mile away.

I remember one story I heard about from England at about the turn of the previous Century, before the Wars changed everything, That common people were beginning to realize that it was possible to 'pass' for the gentile classes. The clothes were available. the only hurdle was language and manners. But there were etiquette books. Heck, everybody had access to the Jane Austen novels. and then there was annunciation and elocution. Going to the English "Public Schools " (not public at all so why do they call them that... they meant Very Private Schools for the Upper Class Only Thankyou Schools) but elocution classes were popping up in London and you could learn how to speak right just like My Fair Lady and Eliza Doolittle. But, yes, the story I heard this girl, the daughter of a cool miner in Manchester decided to escape her Class Fate and make herself a lady read all the books and took the elocution courses and got the cloths and went to the Continent to practice being Gentile English with the foreigners and just waited for an opportunity to insert herself in Society somewhere. Well, all things come to she who waits and she found her in and got married well and since she was a real character she became something of a matron of local society, that is, until her husband died and a few social rivals began to wonder where the hell she originally came from. Well, somebody cared enough to actually spend money on detectives and official poking around then confronted her with it: "You are just a daughter of a coal miner from Manchester!" She just laughed and said "I haven't been that girl for the last 40 years!" The idea there is that she consciously remade herself. I wonder if any of the Cognitive Behavioral Psychologists ever thought about their Therapy in these terms, of Acting, or establishing a Pretense. Often we see advice "Just Be Yourself" and it now strikes me as almost idiotic. We can choose to be whoever we want. Why would we want to be some random ordinary person when we could have the Custom Deluxe Luxury Model as easy as just BEING that? "Fake it until you make it".
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#17

Postby Voyager989 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:17 pm

Hey. How is going? I am doing good. I am still thinking how to prevent any new rage explosion.

The thing about the acting might work, but I am not a big fan of it. I think it is very difficult to put a new mask on and pretend you are somebody else. Sooner or later the same things pop up. So I think more appropriate way is to go digging deeper and deeper and try to find the root of a problem. And then I can start changing from the inside out.

Even great actors need quite some time to accept their new role. They need to start living the lifestyle the new role demands. Only then they can fully sink in. So this might also work for me. I think this a a sort of CBT. First I need to well establish the new role I want to play in life. I need to foresee how my reactions should look like when life challenges me. Let the role be the best version of myself...

I am a very bad loser. I was asking my close relative in the past days and she said I just couldn't stand losing when I was a child. But I have never learned to lose with dignity. Yet. I think all of my rage explosions are somehow connected with losing, either online games or real life situations. And when I explode I lose even more. Yeah, I am even punishing myself for the loss. When playing games for example, I even start losing on purpose.. But this is of course just making me more and more angry... I will need to actively work on this and try to rewire my brain. I need to learn how to have a more zen approach to this.
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#18

Postby Leo Volont » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:07 am

Oh, sorry. I got called away on an urgent business trip and was kept working, or I would have gotten back to you sooner.

Yes, I have the same issues with "acting the best possible 'me'" as you do, and that is settling upon my character's personal.
It becomes more like a list of negatives: a list of traits that you DON'T want. But I created a Dream Suggestion so that my dreams would model exemplary Persona Types. The advantage there is that if you Dream Mind can SHOW a persona, then it is inside you somewhere, right? Recently in my Dreams there have been Authority Characters or Mentoring Characters who had cautioned me to be on my best behavior (not something you would ever want to do to somebody else in public). I think that kind of Dream Work Pressure might be really good for me.

Also, well, many people think that humor is a good thing. But I noticed that when I try to be amusing during a dream, well, it is like trying to make cats laugh. It's made me realize that humor is probably a thing to reserve for 'familiar' friends. The English Language has lost the distinction between Familiar and Formal because the Reaction after the English Civil War was to toss the Familiar entirely out of the language (we know longer have a choice between the Familiar "thou" and the Formal "you". And so I told myself "okay, no more trying to be a funny guy in dreams. Makes me look stupid or something". And, yeah, it seems I only had to tell myself that once.

So, yeah, see if you have access to your Dreams and that way you can use Dream Work to help.

Sorry again for the delay.
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#19

Postby Voyager989 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:10 pm

Hello again :)

I am still abstinent from rage. And I think I feel much better now. I am beginning to learn how to control my anger. It is still not perfect here and there some curse word blows out of me. I also punched a wall once I remember. I was still putting myself in the situations that are likely to anger me. So I was playing poker also, but I stayed disciplined. Couple of times I was very close to blow out, but I decided I do not. Yes, in one of those times, however, I punched a wall.

An issue is that people don't forget quickly my rage episodes. Or threats and all the bad things that came out of my mouth when I blew up. So these past episodes are still causing problems in the present for me. There might be relationships that can never be healed again and people that wouldn't want me near them. My mind or ego then quickly starts to think how injustice is happening to me. And this then could be another source for anger. And, yeah, really, if I show just a little bit of anger to those people it will just confirm their opinion of me. This can turn into a vicious cycle.

Thanks, Leo for replying, even if it is late (I am also late on reply), hope you had a good trip:)
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#20

Postby desperate788 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:38 pm

Anger is a common problem i have anger issues i think im subconsciously very angry to my sister thing is im consciously too. While driving to work i would beat a few people everyday if i were a strong man
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#21

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:55 am

desperate788 wrote:Anger is a common problem i have anger issues i think im subconsciously very angry to my sister thing is im consciously too. While driving to work i would beat a few people everyday if i were a strong man


Yes, it is interesting what you say in regards to you're saying you would beat up people everyday if you were stronger. That has been shown to be true across the board, that people who claim to be "Out of Control" still pick and choose the times when they explode, apparently being careful not to antagonize much bigger men, or those in authority. That means that they are angry but they're not suicidal.

But then that takes us to a place where if people are NOT "out of control" then is it just Drama Queenism? Are people just putting on an elaborate show to get attention. Or maybe it is for their own benefit, that a dramatic performance makes them think that their Life Story has depth and meaning.
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