A strongly repressed Anima about to explode, what to do?

#15

Postby Regulus » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:01 am

The West is an umbrella term for Western civilization.

Take a look at Western Culture and Clash of the Civilizations on wikipedia (I'm not allowed to post links yet).

I think it's hard to classifiy each country under this term, but in spite of this I don't know any better. Anyway by this I mean a social and economic structure of 'liberal capitalist democracies' which is being attacked by the weaknesses of the principles listed in its denotation:

- liberal: people are free to do anything, even subverting the foundation of the sociecty like moral values, reproduction, mental health
- capitalist: no long term statewise planning, only short term profits (just think on how hard was it to buy a simple thing like a mask in the early stage of a pandemic, because stockpiling for emergency situations has a negative expected value for private companies)
- democracy: any fool can vote any idiot into leadership, and the power of governments is weak, they are indecisive unless they have a huge majority.

The current situation favors countries that are not liberal, not capitalist, and not democratic because they can adapt to the situation a lot quicker and easier. Just take a look a China. No recession, no civil unrest, and they've got the epidemic under control. And where did the virus came from? China? By an accident? I doubt...
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#16

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:18 am

Regulus wrote: The current situation favors countries that are not liberal, not capitalist, and not democratic because they can adapt to the situation a lot quicker and easier. Just take a look a China. No recession, no civil unrest, and they've got the epidemic under control. And where did the virus came from? China? By an accident? I doubt...


I would suggest that neither you nor I have any clue what is actually taking place inside of China. Dictatorships control the media. Because I was trapped with a canceled visa in China last May/June, I continue to get periodic emails from the US embassy in Beijing. Those emails make it pretty clear that China doesn't have the epidemic under control. They are still locking down huge regions in an effort to control the virus. Still, I don't consider periodic emails from the embassy to be an accurate overall picture. And my friends in China don't seem to have any inside information either.

Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have access to credible information from inside of China that most of us do not have access to?

And if the basic needs of people can be satisfied then dictatorships typically are great at not having civil unrest regardless if there is a pandemic. I don't necessarily consider that a metric of success. Do you?

Think of it another way. A ship is sinking and two life rafts are launched. In one raft is a dictator. He recruits two brutes and they enforce "the law". He favors the brutes and gives them a larger share of the survival rations. Get out of line, offend the dictator, and you might just get tossed off the raft. They row to an island and given it is a dictatorship it is faster. Out of 15 people on the raft, two are tossed overboard. Still, 13 people make it to the island where the dictatorship continues.

In another raft, it is a bunch of liberals that believe in the voluntary exchange of labor. They start to row to another island but are much less efficient. They argue, there is unrest, and without a strong dictator one person throws another overboard. Then people fight and have a vote about what they should do with this murderer. What a mess as they slowly make their way to the island. By the time they get there only 11 make it to the island. Once on the island, the arguing continues as they vote in a new leader, they separate into factions, and everyone is free to engage in the voluntary exchange of labor.

Which life raft do you choose? What do you think happens with these two islands over the next several years? How do they develop?

I'm not saying which is better. Each raft has advantages and disadvantages. I will tell you which island I would prefer to live on...and it isn't the island with the dictator. You?

In other words, while you say the philosophy of "The West" is focused on "short term" profits and frame it as negative in comparison to a dictatorship, I would argue that your measures of success are short term. I think you are sacrificing the long term for a short term problem.

I would also argue that "The West" has adapted to a much larger degree. On a 10 point scale of freedom "The West" went from say an 8 back in 2019 to a 3 in 2020, and will make significant swing back towards freedom in 2021, 2022. Will it ever return to 8? I don't know. On the other hand, China went from a freedom level of 3 to a 2, and will possibly return to a 3. I don't think they adapted much at all.
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#17

Postby quietvoice » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:40 pm

Regulus wrote:LOL no. I'm not a type of guy who's the fan of the current system, but it's not about authority.

From The Most Dangerous Superstition
The “punch line” of this book is easy to express, albeit difficult for most people to accept, or even to calmly and rationally contemplate:

The belief in “authority,” which includes all belief in “government,” is irrational and self-contradictory; it is contrary to civilization and morality, and constitutes the most dangerous, destructive superstition that has ever existed. Rather than being a force for order and justice, the belief in “authority” is the arch-enemy of humanity.

Of course, nearly everyone is raised to believe the exact opposite: that obedience to “authority” is a virtue (at least in most cases), that respecting and complying with the “laws” of “government” is what makes us civilized, and that disrespect for “authority” leads only to chaos and violence. . . .




Regulus wrote: The intention that wants you to beleive this anti-vac, fake-epidemic stuff is just a plain simple subversive propaganda from the same source where the virus comes from. It's so obvious.

The intention that wants you to believe that [the intention that wants you to believe this anti-vac, fake-epidemic stuff is just a plain simple subversive propaganda] is just plain simple propaganda stemming from the same source where your money system comes from. . . . . . . It's so obvious.

Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!
~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild




Regulus wrote: The West has been skimping on healthcare, education and social safety net in favor of short term profits over the last 30-40 years, and this has become it's weakness, and that the reason it is being attacked in these areas.

I wonder if the "authorities" and those believing in "authority" have anything to do with that . . .


Regulus wrote: That's why desinformation is all over the place now, it's the counterpart of the virus in intellectual dimensions, and it's a quite effective weapon, because the masses are uneducated and stupid, an easy target for demoralisation especially in a time of crisis.



Regulus wrote: As weird it sounds, authority is on our side right now, because their existence depends on us, and the subverters are the enemy, because they want to spread chaos and undermine the foundations of our society.

Hmm. Comply with those who treat us as their enemy because their existence depends on us. Makes sense.




P.S. I wonder what you think about a global digital currency system.
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#18

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:38 pm

quietvoice wrote:P.S. I wonder what you think about a global digital currency system.


There will always be black markets and I think most people will be skeptical of keeping all of their currency in a single global system.

Most people already have digital currency, but the data is stored in multiple systems. For example my digital Wells Fargo bank is different than Fidelity. I also have digital currency with PayPal and CapitalOne. To lose all of my money a person would need to hack every account. And even then each institution would need to deny fault for not protecting their digital system. I have varying degrees of trust with each institution.

I trust that when I log on and see $ that I can convert the digital into a product, good, or service. People agree to receive my $ in exchange for a hamburger. But sometimes it doesn’t work. One digital system might be offline, but usually I can use another digital currency. And if I’m somewhere that doesn’t accept digital, I hand them paper money which they gladly take, because they currently trust that they can exchange this paper for whatever they want.

Currency is a concept. It is based on trust. Human nature will never trust a single global system for currency.
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