Marginalised Researchers In Neurology

#105

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:15 pm

In my school there was sometimes violence. One very wiry, short-sighted and volatile headmaster in Middle School sometimes attacked the pupils. For coughing perhaps.
I recall one very short, bellicose female teacher who started to shout at me and poke me in the chest as she ranted. We started off at the classroom door but as each poke and prod caused me to step back, we ended up at the end of the corridor. I don't recall what I'd done wrong but now recall her as "the poison dwarf".
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#106

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:31 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:In my school there was sometimes violence.


Can you give an example? What is the worst case of violence you witnessed?
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#107

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:14 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:In my school there was sometimes violence.


Can you give an example? What is the worst case of violence you witnessed?

In Middle School we had this headmaster who was physically abusive and hated by the dinner ladies. Once in a blue moon he would take our class if a teacher was absent for the lesson. This class would actually be entertaining as the headmaster would always tell us a story. Rudjard Kipling I think. However, he could just set off. Once a boy coughed as the story was being narrated. The teacher told him to not cough. When the same boy coughed again all hell broke loose. I recall he first picked the boy up and threw him over a desk so he then bounced onto the floor. Then absurdly the teacher reigned blows with his fists from above. A subsequent attack followed that time with kicks delivered.
There is a story that George Harrison was once beaten at school so George's dad later came to the school. He then knocked the teacher out cold. Violence and abuse was common. It never usually came my way at school from teachers but I often was targeted for not being normal.
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#108

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:13 am

So the boy coughing and being hit by the headmaster while substituting for the regular teacher, is the worst case of violence you witnessed. And you mentioned the coughing in both posts, so it was this single incident you witnessed. You never personally witnessed the headmaster hit another student?

And the worst violence against you was being poked in the chest?

I'm just clarifying what you consider to be a violent school.
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#109

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:29 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:So the boy coughing and being hit by the headmaster while substituting for the regular teacher, is the worst case of violence you witnessed. And you mentioned the coughing in both posts, so it was this single incident you witnessed. You never personally witnessed the headmaster hit another student?

And the worst violence against you was being poked in the chest?

I'm just clarifying what you consider to be a violent school.


I think your definition of "being hit" differs from my own. A 10 year old schoolboy wasn't "being hit". He was thrown across a desk like a rag-doll by an adult twice as big and twice as strong. And then repeatedly pounded with fists while on the floor. And in the second assault kicked as he lay on the ground. I think I stated it was a Middle and not a High School.
Not violent? Personally I would describe it as physical abuse.
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#110

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:25 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:Not violent? Personally I would describe it as physical abuse.


I agree. That single incident was violent and it was physical abuse. It obviously had an impact on you.

I guess I also grew up with "some violence" that I can remember. In my teen years, a person in my community shot at me, wounded two others, and killed one young man. And in school, there was also "some violence" including times when I was involved in physical fights with other students, getting kicked in the back, punched, etc. And in several schools, corporal punishment was an option, which allowed teachers to discipline students using wooden paddles. Arguably that is a form of "violence" and "physical abuse". I remember one teacher was upset with me and she used a hand to grab my face, squeezing my cheeks as she yelled at me to "be quiet".

So I think we can both safely claim that we grew up with "some violence". And I would argue that 99% of students could recount at least one, if not a handful of violent encounters in their school. So basically every child experiences "some violence" as part of life.

But I think I might frame my experiences with violence differently than how you frame your experiences. If we grew up with "some violence" it then means we grew up in mostly peaceful schools, in mostly peaceful communities.

I guess it all comes down to perspective.
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#111

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:52 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:Not violent? Personally I would describe it as physical abuse.


I agree. That single incident was violent and it was physical abuse. It obviously had an impact on you.

I guess I also grew up with "some violence" that I can remember. In my teen years, a person in my community shot at me, wounded two others, and killed one young man. And in school, there was also "some violence" including times when I was involved in physical fights with other students, getting kicked in the back, punched, etc. And in several schools, corporal punishment was an option, which allowed teachers to discipline students using wooden paddles. Arguably that is a form of "violence" and "physical abuse". I remember one teacher was upset with me and she used a hand to grab my face, squeezing my cheeks as she yelled at me to "be quiet".

So I think we can both safely claim that we grew up with "some violence". And I would argue that 99% of students could recount at least one, if not a handful of violent encounters in their school. So basically every child experiences "some violence" as part of life.

But I think I might frame my experiences with violence differently than how you frame your experiences. If we grew up with "some violence" it then means we grew up in mostly peaceful schools, in mostly peaceful communities.

I guess it all comes down to perspective.


Bleuler wrote:

"If events of a moral nature can influence the symptomatology of schizophrenia, then it is quite improbable that the illness was actually caused by them. They define symptoms, not disease. "

My background was very unstable. No, it didn't cause my pathology. Mostly it's genetic. These incidents at school didn't make any major impression. However, aged around 25 I developed a very weird state of phobic terror over my female Russian teacher. It defied logic. It started when one day she picked on a student and kept making him repeat linguistic exercises. From that day, I became terrified. My fear was this dark haired, serious woman was going to make me into a laughing stock by forcing me into a situation. Bear in mind, people with my makeup can't react to social demands and, at that time, I had no idea why such situations scared me. It got so bad I took to drink when faced with this class. I imagined myself being reduced to ridicule and exposed as a basket case for all to see. My hands sweated during her class and I was half hysterical. My friend Julie found it all amusing and dragged me to the class. And now I'm totally over fear. I may feel uneasy in groups but not fearful.
Later in life I developed a fetish for women in power and got very attracted to such scenarios. A classic example of Bleuler's Ambivalence = split of contrasting desires. Fearing and liking at the same time.
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#112

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:07 pm

What you described sounds fairly normal to me.

I'm not saying normal in the sense that you developed a specific fetish for women in power. I'm saying normal in that every single person has fears that "defy logic". I'm saying normal in that every person develops something that could be described as a "fetish".

People, almost everyone, has a fear of public speaking. They have a fear of being ridiculed, heckled, and/or exposed.

Again, it seems like it comes down to perspective. I see you as very comfortable in expressing your opinion and you do not fear recognition. In fact you seek recognition. You frame your background as "very unstable" yet it seems like your experiences are fairly typical of most people.
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#113

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:28 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:What you described sounds fairly normal to me.

I'm not saying normal in the sense that you developed a specific fetish for women in power. I'm saying normal in that every single person has fears that "defy logic". I'm saying normal in that every person develops something that could be described as a "fetish".

People, almost everyone, has a fear of public speaking. They have a fear of being ridiculed, heckled, and/or exposed.

Again, it seems like it comes down to perspective. I see you as very comfortable in expressing your opinion and you do not fear recognition. In fact you seek recognition. You frame your background as "very unstable" yet it seems like your experiences are fairly typical of most people.

The fetish thing is both highly interesting for psychology but also a bit of a giggle. I grew out of it. These days I tend to try not to live my life around emotions and desires. Still, fetish is a great way to explain Bleuler's Ambivalence.
It so happens adults who had attended very strict public schools in the 1970s developed fetishes. Given they resented whatever abuse they'd suffered at public school, one way to deal with it is to assume power and control over your fear. So, a tall, powerful, attractive woman becomes both symbolic of the fear but, at the same time, sexually attractive. By heterodyning sexuality with the feared "scenario" the scenario loses its power. And becomes attractive. Someone who fears being a victim acts out a game of pretence with a sexual framework to reconcile contrary desires. I agree that although Bleuler referred this to Schizophrenia it often happens under more normal circumstances. Oddly very many scientists seem to experience fetish.
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#114

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:51 pm

That's as far as I dare take Ambivalence. I don't think ambivalence applies to me much today. Most of my personal focus is on logic since emotion is a distraction.
Plus Freudian analysis is useful but not the specific area I study.
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#115

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:25 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote: Most of my personal focus is on logic since emotion is a distraction.


Emotion is responsible for everything you have ever learned or will learn. Your belief that you focus on logic is fundamentally driven by emotion.
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#116

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:20 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote: Most of my personal focus is on logic since emotion is a distraction.


Emotion is responsible for everything you have ever learned or will learn. Your belief that you focus on logic is fundamentally driven by emotion.

Emotions stand out to me like a red light. Always they lead people astray in debates. Value judgements are useless in research. Association and analytical skills are paramount.
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#117

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:02 am

davidbanner99@ wrote:Emotions stand out to me like a red light. Always they lead people astray in debates. Value judgements are useless in research. Association and analytical skills are paramount.


Do realize that your post is an emotional value judgment? Or do you believe the above quote is analytical?

Do you realize the entire thread has been you using emotion?

Do you realize that claiming research on autism needs autism researchers is a value judgment?
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#118

Postby littlebrowndragon » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:46 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:
There is a story that George Harrison was once beaten at school so George's dad later came to the school. He then knocked the teacher out cold. Violence and abuse was common. It never usually came my way at school from teachers but I often was targeted for not being normal.


Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
So the boy coughing and being hit by the headmaster while substituting for the regular teacher, is the worst case of violence you witnessed.


As a former teacher, I worked in city schools and in small, rural schools. Violence? Of course there was. Abuse? Of course there was.

Violence: I've seen physical fights between pupils erupt in the classroom. Quite frightening for a young, female, beginning teacher to have to deal with. Golden rule: never intervene - I sent a pupil out to fetch one of the senior staff. I also witnessed a teacher physically launch himself at the headteacher during a staff meeting. At one school the parents of a pupil, specifically the father, were behaving very threateningly towards the teachers at a parents' night. I'm not sure if any blows were exchanged, but my boss came to question me later to ask if I had experienced any hostility from them. I hadn't. The aforementioned will, of course, be relatively mild compared to, say, London schools or US schools.

Abuse? Of course there is abuse. For example, bullying is rampant in schools. Employers abuse their employees, the teachers and other staff. The teachers abuse pupils and each other. Government Inspectors abuse the staff. The pupils abuse each other and their teachers. Of course, being in the weakest position, the pupils generally get the worst of it.

To put it bluntly, anybody who thinks a school environment is benign needs to get their head out of the clouds and get a good dose of reality instead. Schools are abhorrent places. They specifically use fear as their main instrument of torture. Most of the abuse, therefore, is psychological. This is worse than physical abuse. One reason for this is that psychological abuse is not as blatant as physical abuse, therefore it is harder to pin down. It is easier to pull the wool over people's eyes when there are no physical signs of abuse.
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#119

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:04 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:Emotions stand out to me like a red light. Always they lead people astray in debates. Value judgements are useless in research. Association and analytical skills are paramount.


Do realize that your post is an emotional value judgment? Or do you believe the above quote is analytical?

Do you realize the entire thread has been you using emotion?

Do you realize that claiming research on autism needs autism researchers is a value judgment?

It's a logic judgement:
In physics there exists resonance. Resonance is the product of an LC network. The brain is an electrical organic transmitter operating at alternating frequency. Brains are not all identical in frequency. Neither are LC networks. This is why Tesla stated vibration, resonance and frequency are the key to understanding. This is science and not emotion as you claim.Your judgements mostly to date are emotional judgements and reflected in endeavour to create arguments or score points.
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