I have avoided divorce . What now ?

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:59 am

After 20 years together , a big fight at Christmas led to me moving out for 6 weeks . Worst time of my life , as I love her , she’s “not in love with me anymore “
But we have 2 beautiful children , I am a busy professional , she doesn’t have to work , and we are just about financially secure - with 2 investment properties for the kids ( 1 small house each )
My work related stress was key to the bust up . ( non violent btw) but .. after the bust up , we both admired it was in the way this last 4 years abs we were both painting over the cracks .

Anyway divorce court would have swallowed up the houses we both worked so hard to pay down for the kids , I get her commitment as a stay at home mom a full time job , always acknowledge that , and even it as to go to court would make sure she and the children were provided for .
As I’m a good man ..

Tempers flared then cooled down .
I got back home . But .. the love is gone , but she respects the hell out of me and the fact that I’m a great dad .

So.. my take on it , was “ there was a time in the last 20 years that I fell out of love with you , but did not want to dissolve the family unit for the sake of the kids , and their future inheritance . Abs low and behold I fell back in love with you again ,”

Her take is , she doesn’t love me now , but respects me and likes me , so we have engaged a marriage Councilor.
To see what the under lying issues are . To be fair to my wife , a stubborn woman ( who I adore ) the councilor had pointed out a lot of stuff in her side that’s been wrong and down right bitchy . Years of it .
I then am still blinded by love and feel sorry that she now feels down , as she is having some realizations, as the councilor ( an expensive well recommended one ) has pointed out a lot of her faults , that would have only ended up in an argument if I pointed them out .

I’m an open book And always bent over for her abs admit to my **** ups .

Anyway . Sitting on my couch , about to go to bed with my wife who doesn’t love me anymore .
How bizarre is that ?
We are both good people and are giving this process a try . 2 beautyful children , financial security and 20 years in the balance ..
It’s worth a shot .
Just thought I’d vent here I case anyone else ever found them selves on the road to marriage reconciliation/ divorce avoidance In similar circumstances.

Regards, and peace .
NL.
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:32 am

Newlid wrote:...and we are just about financially secure - with 2 investment properties for the kids ( 1 small house each )
My work related stress was key to the bust up.


My two cents...

Let’s accept 100% the faults you have observed in your wife.

She did not fall out of love because of her faults. She has fallen out of love for whatever she perceives are your faults and from what you posted it sounds like you have used worked, you have used your professional career as a shield. Your identity is too wrapped up in your professional role being what it means to be a husband.

In suggesting the above I point you to one part of your post that from the perspective of an outsider comes across as absolutely absurd. You say you have 2 investment properties, 1 small house for each child. Good for you! That is impressive. Most couples have limited savings for their children let alone an investment property...oh wait, you have 2 small houses, plus the one you live in. Awesome.

You know what is not awesome? It is that in the same breath you say, “We are just about financially secure.” Really? Only just about? Who are you kidding? Yourself? It is an absurd claim. I get that people with wealth can mismanage that wealth. I get that maybe you took on risk with these properties. But not financially secure? That is laughable.

My guess is that a big part of the relationship issue is that enough is never enough. You always have a reason why there is a need for you to work harder, to earn more, to do it for the kids, to be a “good dad”. And over time she got tired of it never being enough.

Anyway, I wish you guys the best in counseling. I bet if you focus on adjusting how you view your identity as a business professional working hard for future security, things might improve in the relationship.
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#2

Postby Candid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:47 am

Newlid wrote:Sitting on my couch , about to go to bed with my wife who doesn’t love me anymore .
How bizarre is that ?

Every marriage is different, and the situation you describe is far from bizarre. After 20 years plenty of marriages go stale. Couples stay together as long as they still have good will towards each other.

Assuming there's a spare room, how about you move into it and cool off a bit towards her? Without her bitchiness you'd have a chance of reverting to the man she fell in love with.

If not for coronahoax 'measures' I'd suggest you start dating again. You can do that online, of course. Having stoically been the good husband for years, let her think she might lose you.
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#3

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:45 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Newlid wrote:...and we are just about financially secure - with 2 investment properties for the kids ( 1 small house each )
My work related stress was key to the bust up.


My two cents...

Let’s accept 100% the faults you have observed in your wife.

She did not fall out of love because of her faults. She has fallen out of love for whatever she perceives are your faults and from what you posted it sounds like you have used worked, you have used your professional career as a shield. Your identity is too wrapped up in your professional role being what it means to be a husband.

In suggesting the above I point you to one part of your post that from the perspective of an outsider comes across as absolutely absurd. You say you have 2 investment properties, 1 small house for each child. Good for you! That is impressive. Most couples have limited savings for their children let alone an investment property...oh wait, you have 2 small houses, plus the one you live in. Awesome.

You know what is not awesome? It is that in the same breath you say, “We are just about financially secure.” Really? Only just about? Who are you kidding? Yourself? It is an absurd claim. I get that people with wealth can mismanage that wealth. I get that maybe you took on risk with these properties. But not financially secure? That is laughable.

My guess is that a big part of the relationship issue is that enough is never enough. You always have a reason why there is a need for you to work harder, to earn more, to do it for the kids, to be a “good dad”. And over time she got tired of it never being enough.

Anyway, I wish you guys the best in counseling. I bet if you focus on adjusting how you view your identity as a business professional working hard for future security, things might improve in the relationship.



Possibly . But bare in mind , providing the luxury of a stay at home mom , future security for the kids , plenty of holiday time and family time , the provision for all of that took some doing . Forgive me if I seem “to tied up “ in providing for those whom I love .

I also thought the kids how to hunt and fish , as well as swim , martial arts etc .
My conscious is clear on that part . I’m a hands on dad . The professional life never consumed my work life balance . This is truly a issue of “hearts “

After 20 years sometimes people’s hearts just drift, it’s personal , but not to be taken personally or as insult . It’s takes working out on an adult /rational level , which is why I choose to post on this forum

The councilor says focus needs to be taken off the question of “do you love one another still “ to his mind , the important question after 20 years is “do you still like one another “( this makes me sad )

The answer from both of us is a definite “yes “
Although I’m still in love .
Maybe I’m a sad middle aged romantic who needs to grow up ?
Ponder that for me guys please .
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#4

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Candid wrote:
Newlid wrote:Sitting on my couch , about to go to bed with my wife who doesn’t love me anymore .
How bizarre is that ?

Every marriage is different, and the situation you describe is far from bizarre. After 20 years plenty of marriages go stale. Couples stay together as long as they still have good will towards each other.

Assuming there's a spare room, how about you move into it and cool off a bit towards her? Without her bitchiness you'd have a chance of reverting to the man she fell in love with.

If not for coronahoax 'measures' I'd suggest you start dating again. You can do that online, of course. Having stoically been the good husband for years, let her think she might lose you.
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#5

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:49 pm

Candid wrote:
Newlid wrote:Sitting on my couch , about to go to bed with my wife who doesn’t love me anymore .
How bizarre is that ?

Every marriage is different, and the situation you describe is far from bizarre. After 20 years plenty of marriages go stale. Couples stay together as long as they still have good will towards each other.

Assuming there's a spare room, how about you move into it and cool off a bit towards her? Without her bitchiness you'd have a chance of reverting to the man she fell in love with.

If not for coronahoax 'measures' I'd suggest you start dating again. You can do that online, of course. Having stoically been the good husband for years, let her think she might lose you.


Thank you for the reply .
To be honest , I haven’t the heart to have sex or date another woman .
I can’t imagine it .

Sad romantic . Maybe I need to grow up .
The spare room thing did make sense , I had suggested it , but after one night I was asked back into our bed .

I counted all of her breaths as I fell asleep .

Again thanks for the reply .
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#6

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:31 pm

Newlid wrote: After 20 years sometimes people’s hearts just drift,


I've heard this before and in my opinion, it is hogwash. People's hearts don't just drift apart any more than they simply drift together.

It is interesting how this "drifting" phenomenon is never applied to parents or children. It is almost exclusively applied to intimate partners.

To be fair, we might say this of a good friend. You hear, "What happened with your friend Tom?"

"Well, he got married, had kids, and we just lost touch." i.e. you just "drifted" away from each other. But notice, there is an explanation. Drifting just doesn't happen.

I don't think you are being a hopeless romantic. Instead, I think you currently hold some beliefs that are huge barriers to achieving what you want.

Think about it. You hold the belief, "sometimes people's hearts just drift". This belief places you in an unwinnable scenario. If you truly believe people's hearts just drift, then there is nothing you can do. It is just random chance. You just cross your fingers and hope that maybe she drifts back your way one day.

It might be the case that you are unable to improve the relationship with her, but it will not be because of "drift". She has reasons she has lost feelings for you. What are they? Maybe she is not being entirely honest or open with you about those reasons, but they do exist.
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#7

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:15 pm

Thank you for you reply . I am on one hand hopeful the councilor ( who is also a clinical philologist, amounts other things ) finds out why the reason for the drift is there .
I agree there has to be a reason .

Then on the other hand , I am terrified his work will uncover that reason - and it will be the end anyway .

A paradox that of sorts.

There is also another issue . Piri menopause symptoms .
I feel like my life long partner is asleep at the wheel , or there is someone else at the helm now .

I’d this is the case , I feel it my duty to try and weather the storm for the sake of the family , as a lot of experts and peer reviewed study’s claim that they ( she ) can return to you with love once the hormones come back into balance .

I just got to shut up for a few years , be supportive but not clingy .

Again thanks for your thoughts and analysis guys .
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#8

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:31 pm

Newlid wrote:I agree there has to be a reason .


What reasons has she given you?

Did she say, "I no longer have feelings because you are clingy, you talk too much, and I'm hormonal?"

Or is this speculation on your part?
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#9

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:52 pm

She has said the above . Then I front of the councilor/philologist in therapy said she’s not menopausal at all .
Then she admits to irregular cycles , has started taking all sorts of Supplements offered from “dr menopause “ of Instagram fame ...
But is not menopausal ..

I suggested she should get a proper hormonal panel done by an endocrinologist and was attacked for doing so .

Wedding pictures were taken off the mantle piece , as if by magic have returned though .

Meanwhile , I assist with the home schooling , go to work ( can work when I choose thank god come home eat dinner , all is well .
Then her mood would change , you can sense it , abs it’s picture no sound for a time , followed by “do you want a hug ? “ with tears In her eyes .
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#10

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:35 pm

It sounds like you guys do not have effective communication.

What does she want? What has she asked for repeatedly over the last few years and you ignore? Where have you failed to listen?

In what you write it seems like you put up a sort of shield. You put forth all of your good works. You put forth all of the things you do to support or provide for your family. But you can't seem to figure out what is missing. WHERE HAVE YOU FAILED?

Figure that out. When you figure out where you have failed, that will be a start to bringing the relationship back together.

Here is my guess. She doesn't need you to work more, to spend more time with the kids, to be an even better provider. That is not what she needs more of. That is not what is missing. That is not what she wants. This is not where you are failing. It is something else.
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#11

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:20 pm

I fully agree . Hence the counseling process . We both admit to being poor communicators , though we both respect we are both hard working and Have a lot to show for it , and potentially a lot to loose .
A lot of people seem to frown upon therapy / counseling. To my mind In this case - it’s a case of “can’t see the wood from the trees “
An outside impartial opinion may indeed unearth what’s wrong .
And I’m not a dickhead. Maybe it’s all me . I really hope so as I can fix Me ..
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#12

Postby tokeless » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:34 pm

Hi,
It's always complicated trying to unpick what goes wrong... from what you've written about your achievements and acquired wealth, I wonder if she has ever felt secondary to your work. I know you've said you're a hands on dad etc, but where you a hands on husband? Holidays and the trappings of success are one thing... intimacy and just being are another. Many wives of wealthy men feel sad because they just become another trophy or achievement of the husband. Clearly something changed or perhaps became too much. Maybe your wife can't tell you the truth or she can't articulate it? I suggest you get on the front foot and tell her the situation can't continue as is and if it's over, then plan for it. I sense she knows you're still trying to get her back and she can hedge her bets... she's in a comfortable position and doesn't really need to change it. I would move out and let her see life without you in it. You have places to go. Stay cordial but show her you can live without her.... you may be too easy for her, so she's become complacent? I'd fight back because what will you lose? A women who's told you she is no longer in love with you?? You can only gain imo... she comes back or you meet someone else. You're not the first or last to divorce and life goes on. Do you cling on because you can't accept failure??
Best wishes
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#13

Postby Newlid » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:04 pm

I will have to be more clear , I’m not a lotto winner or a beneficiary of inheritance, I’m working class
And have had success as well as a few failures within the SME sector .

Humble...
I am proud that I can afford to give my kids the option of a collage education , or the first foot on the property ladder - or they can go round the world traveling for a few years and avoid such pressures I have had to bare .

I always considered the wages both of our creation , and informed the children how lucky we are to have such a wonderful wife / mother , as I couldn’t have had the time to do this only for her looking after the kids while I worked . It’s a joint effort .
Gets it two easy ? Funny enough , my mother and a few others close to the situation have remarked the same .
Possibly I’ve been naive .

Cheers for the advice guys .
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#14

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:49 am

I think tokeless makes some good points to consider.

Your wife wants more than a "bread winner" and a good father. Maybe she doesn't want a SIMP. I don't mean to be crude, but maybe she has lost desire because she doesn't see you as the type of "mans man" the guy she wants to do bad things. Maybe she never wanted that, but she wants it now.

You don't really know, because communication is lacking.

One thing you know she doesn't want is the clingy man that says he wants to be with her forever and ever and will do whatever to make it work. She doesn't want the man that is willing to work even harder. That approach isn't working.

Of course I'm just brainstorming here, but what tokeless has suggested has some merit. There is a possibility that she wants what she can't have. She can have you easy enough. You say you are not a dickhead. Fair enough. But maybe a bit of dickhead is what she wants, but you don't know because you guys can't communicate.
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