More On Conspiracy

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sat May 15, 2021 8:25 pm

This week I had a few harsh words to share on account of anti-semitism. Sadly, there are significant numbers of Covid protesters who blame Jewish people for the Covid crisis. I am not Jewish, by the way, but like to think of myself as unconcerned by race.
Psychology wise, again the danger we see is when people sit behind a screen for hours rather than read actual books. If indeed they read proper books, hopefully they would see that races of people are not evil or inferior, be they black, Chinese, Jewish or Russian.
How on earth all the Jewish people in Europe and America somehow got together to "plot" a global virus is pretty much beyond me. Of course, there has been a spike of ethnic conflict in the Middle East, and that tends to cause emotions to run higher than normal. Even so, I still find it astonishing people are still buying into the idea an individual is either a good or bad person, based on race.
The psychology of it is that when people are afraid, angry and insecure, they need to find a cause or ready explanation for their challenges. In all cases the conspiracy seeks a villain, Christians in Ancient Rome, Witches in Europe and Jews in Poland. Even black Africans during the slave trade.
Same message. People need to get off extremist websites and oppose Covid propaganda with truth and social values. Not hate and scapegoating.
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#1

Postby tokeless » Sat May 15, 2021 9:03 pm

What I find frustrating is the inability to question the actions and behaviours of the State of Israel... it has been positioned in the no go zone by vested interests who stand to benefit from the immunity to question. Norman Finkelstein wrote an interesting book about this called The Holocaust Industry. The Jewish people are not to blame for this, in fact they are victims of it because their suffering is being exploited for the benefit of the few. Is that a conspiracy or is Finkelstein a jew hating jew as they labelled him for asking questions?
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#2

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sat May 15, 2021 11:17 pm

tokeless wrote:What I find frustrating is the inability to question the actions and behaviours of the State of Israel... it has been positioned in the no go zone by vested interests who stand to benefit from the immunity to question. Norman Finkelstein wrote an interesting book about this called The Holocaust Industry. The Jewish people are not to blame for this, in fact they are victims of it because their suffering is being exploited for the benefit of the few. Is that a conspiracy or is Finkelstein a jew hating jew as they labelled him for asking questions?

Most educated Egyptians know Israel existed as an ancient culture with a language. Evidently the exit from Egypt was historical and the semitic peoples settled in Israel. If I were Jewish I would support the restoraration of Israel. However, what we now see is an ethnic conflict similar to many others. Catholics and protestants, Ukrainians and Russians, Basques and Spanish. It's unfortunate but despite that all Jewish people differ and are just human beings - not global plotters or conspirators. Besides I noticed a lot of racism directed at Russians as well. These latter are supposed to be hackers, maffia, poisoners and spies. Most are just very normal.
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#3

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sat May 15, 2021 11:31 pm

Strange how people set about killing one another over race and religion. Beneath it lies a dire need to have an identity and specific set of beliefs. Far back as Roman times pagans were persecuted by Christians and Christians persecuted by Romans.
I liked that first Planet Of The Apes movie where Charlton Heston travels through time and space and asks: "Will mankind still be murdering their brother over a piece of land?"
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#4

Postby bawdyheated » Mon May 17, 2021 3:01 am

This topic has always been more sad than interesting. I like learning from a lot of people, and your comments help me with that.
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#5

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon May 17, 2021 3:31 am

davidbanner99@ wrote: If indeed they read proper books, hopefully they would see that races of people are not evil or inferior, be they black, Chinese, Jewish or Russian.


Which proper books taught you that Russian or Chinese is a race?
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#6

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon May 17, 2021 12:25 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote: If indeed they read proper books, hopefully they would see that races of people are not evil or inferior, be they black, Chinese, Jewish or Russian.


Which proper books taught you that Russian or Chinese is a race?

Those that discuss the Olympics sprinting.
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#7

Postby quietvoice » Mon May 17, 2021 12:45 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:
Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Which proper books taught you that Russian or Chinese is a race?

Those that discuss the Olympics sprinting.

Well, that was helpful.

What are the 5 races of humans?
Coon, divided humanity into five races:

Negroid (Black) race.
Australoid (Australian Aborigine and Papuan) race.
Capoid (Bushmen/Hottentots) race.
Mongoloid (Oriental/Amerindian) race.
Caucasoid (White) race.

What are the 3 human races?
The main human races are Caucasoid, Mongoloids (including Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and American Indians, etc.), and Negroid. Khoisanoids or Capoids (Bushmen and Hottentots) and Pacific races (Australian aborigines, Polynesians, Melanesians, and Indonesians) may also be distinguished.Jul 16, 2016
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#8

Postby quietvoice » Mon May 17, 2021 7:32 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote: there are significant numbers of Covid protesters who blame Jewish people for the Covid crisis.

I am wondering if you could define "covid protester" for me.

I am also wondering what these "covid protesters" are exactly saying about what it is that the J-people did to create the "crisis".
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#9

Postby tokeless » Mon May 17, 2021 9:23 pm

there are significant numbers of Covid protesters who blame Jewish people for the Covid crisis.

Any references for this? There's a lot of disinformation these days that can and is used by both sides.
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#10

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon May 17, 2021 9:27 pm

I found something odd. The 1950s Soviet doctor I'm reading seems to list conspiracy theory under "delusion". This isn't to suggest that all conspiracy theory is spun by those who are delusional, but a large part of it is. I left Google Translates rendering alone as it reads in an amusing way:

"In such cases, some special mysterious organizations, a gang of intruders, the mafia, freemasons, and counter-revolutionaries often appear. The patient does not know any of these intruders either by sight or by name, but he is convinced of their existence, since he constantly feels their influence on himself. The nature of the impacts to the patient seems so peculiar that often he cannot define it in generally accepted expressions, but must come up with special names, sometimes without stopping at the invention of new words."

So, the intruders could well be "greys" or mysterious plotters. "Freemasons" comes lose to Jews. The way conspiracy uses Jewish people contains the following elements.
(1) It assumes a collective conceptualisation. Someone like Stan Lee (of Spiderman fame) will differ enormously in personality from an ultra religious pilgrim, but conspiracy doesn't encapsulate detail. Witches are witches and so on.
(2) The brain always seeks a means of explaining fear or anger. In the movie Death Wish, Charles Bronson's wife is raped and killed by New York thugs. Bronson then associated "all" New York degenerates with muggers and he became a vigilante. Anger never just floats in your soul. It has to find an explanation.
To date, I share the same objections as Conspiracy Theorists but very many show loss of reality.
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#11

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon May 17, 2021 9:36 pm

tokeless wrote:there are significant numbers of Covid protesters who blame Jewish people for the Covid crisis.

Any references for this? There's a lot of disinformation these days that can and is used by both sides.


Anti semitism has been rampant on forums I visited. It has pushed me away from the protest movement. I'm not Jewish myself but generally oppose scapegoating. Same applies to muslims who all differ and can be easy to befriend.
Not long ago I came to the aid of a Sri Lankan family whose shop window had been smashed by thugs. It was racially motivated and the older lady had been shaken up.
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#12

Postby tokeless » Mon May 17, 2021 10:04 pm

Anti semitism has been rampant on forums I visited. It has pushed me away from the protest movement. I'm not Jewish myself but generally oppose scapegoating. Same applies to muslims who all differ and can be easy to befriend.
Not long ago I came to the aid of a Sri Lankan family whose shop window had been smashed by thugs. It was racially motivated and the older lady had been shaken up.[/quote]

As I said previously, antisemitism is everywhere you look because everything has been labelled as such to shut down any discussion. Netanyahu uses the suffering in nearly everything he does, to justify defending the Jewish state, when it is that same state committing atrocities. The world has become afraid to challenge Israel for that reason. I watched a good documentary today called 2 blue lines, which was filmed over 25 years and tells the tale of the conflict. There are some very insightful Jews in it who state quite clearly their beliefs that Israel is creating many of the problems and an apartheid state which is worse than the south African one, because at least they were given some degree of free movement. Worth a watch and what was refreshing was the information that challenged the narrative. I have no issues with Jewish people or any other to be exact, but the State of Israel has been contaminated by ultra right wing bigots. Becoming the persecutors when you have been persecuted doesn't make it right. The parallels with nazi ideology is evident but the atrocities less blatant and wholesale but the numbers are still very high over time.
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#13

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue May 18, 2021 12:08 am

tokeless wrote:Anti semitism has been rampant on forums I visited. It has pushed me away from the protest movement. I'm not Jewish myself but generally oppose scapegoating. Same applies to muslims who all differ and can be easy to befriend.
Not long ago I came to the aid of a Sri Lankan family whose shop window had been smashed by thugs. It was racially motivated and the older lady had been shaken up.


As I said previously, antisemitism is everywhere you look because everything has been labelled as such to shut down any discussion. Netanyahu uses the suffering in nearly everything he does, to justify defending the Jewish state, when it is that same state committing atrocities. The world has become afraid to challenge Israel for that reason. I watched a good documentary today called 2 blue lines, which was filmed over 25 years and tells the tale of the conflict. There are some very insightful Jews in it who state quite clearly their beliefs that Israel is creating many of the problems and an apartheid state which is worse than the south African one, because at least they were given some degree of free movement. Worth a watch and what was refreshing was the information that challenged the narrative. I have no issues with Jewish people or any other to be exact, but the State of Israel has been contaminated by ultra right wing bigots. Becoming the persecutors when you have been persecuted doesn't make it right. The parallels with nazi ideology is evident but the atrocities less blatant and wholesale but the numbers are still very high over time.[/quote]
It's an ethnic conflict no different than Ukrainian and Russian or Basque and Spanish.
As I gather the State of Israel existed with its language and culture millenia ago. It is believed the Hebrews left Egypt at the time of Ramases the Great. Israel was established. It became a Roman client state much later in history but the eventual destruction of Israel led to ethnic cleansing. Of Jews that is. The facts today are simple. Israel is no longer controlled by imperialist countries and remains a nuclear state with a highly trained army. I don't think it matters what people in Europe think or what they may like, or otherwise. Obviously all ethnic conflicts have two sides with rights and wrongs but to me it's a geographical dispute. Same as Crimea or even the Falklands.
I think to push Israel into a corner would be dangerous, but time will tell
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#14

Postby tokeless » Tue May 18, 2021 6:41 am

Israel puts claim to the land based on the bible. The argument is that God gave them the land, whereas Ottoman writings put Palestinians there over 4000 years ago. However, that for me is not the issue. The issue is the blatant land grabbing, annexing and slow destruction of another nation and it's people. This ignores international law, which we are all supposed to be under by definition. No other country on this planet would get away with this without being ostracised by the rest of the world. Israel can ignore it because America supports them unequivocally. They even refuse to acknowledge they are a nuclear country officially, yet NK, Iran get sanctioned for trying to become one.
This can't be right. Yes, terrorist groups like Hamas are wrong and should be fought, but the people being oppressed are ordinary people and Hamas is being used as justification for what they do to them. When the UK had troops in Ireland, they did bad things to the people there because we were fighting the IRA... we looked for peace and eventually left the occupation. Israel says it wants peace but it's actions block that. To accept a 2 nation state would mean accepting Palestinians having a right to land, laws, self governing and that is not acceptable. They want Israel all to themselves, just for Jews and nobody else.... has echoes of nazi Germany to me. A pure nation, one blood
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