Neurotypical married to a man with aspergers syndrome

#30

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:48 pm

quietvoice wrote:Why do you think he will get better? His neurology will not change. This is a neurological condition that keeps him from being able to emotionally connect to another.


What neurological condition, precisely? Aspergers?

You believe that all people diagnosed with Aspergers are incapable of ever having a healthy intimate relationship?
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#31

Postby quietvoice » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:55 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
quietvoice wrote:Why do you think he will get better? His neurology will not change. This is a neurological condition that keeps him from being able to emotionally connect to another.

What neurological condition, precisely? Aspergers?

You believe that all people diagnosed with Aspergers are incapable of ever having a healthy intimate relationship?

Autism. Only-care-about-me-ism. I-cannot-see-who-you-are-ism.

"I pretend to care about you so that I can get my needs met. Once I get you hooked, I can let go and not care about you, until I fear that I'll lose you, then I'll pretend again."
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#32

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:01 pm

quietvoice wrote:Autism.


Again, I ask if you believe that 100% of people born with autism are incapable of ever having a healthy intimate relationship?

"I pretend to care about you so that I can get my needs met. Once I get you hooked, I can let go and not care about you, until I fear that I'll lose you, then I'll pretend again."


The above quote is from present day Algorithm, full of "smartness", lack of experience, full of hubris and living a sheltered life. That Algorithm says this today, does not mean that 20 years from now he is destined to think the exact same way.

In my experience, regardless of neurological conditions, most people change over time. Most people don't think the same way at age 50 that they think at age 30. A possible exception are those institutionalized with severe mental disabilities, incapable of learning.
Last edited by Richard@DecisionSkills on Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#33

Postby Algorithm » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:02 pm

quietvoice wrote:Why do you think he will get better? His neurology will not change. This is a neurological condition that keeps him from being able to emotionally connect to another.


That's the first sensible thing you've written. My wiring does prevent me from emotionally connecting, but it's not the aspie wiring. My aspergers as an adult was so mild that they wanted it amended, until I added a few anecdotes from my past. Then it became apparent for them that I am indeed an aspie. Those particular events of the past had nothing to do with romance, however.

There was some dispute in my childhood whether I was an aspie too. Not all of them thought so... Aspergers was new back then.

I have no respect for their profession, but I think they made the right call. That said, I have admitted in public that I have AS, which prompted the other students to laugh, thinking I was joking. I didn't bother to let them know that I wasn't. I was accepted. Why fix something that isn't broken?

But like I wrote, aspergers is (ideally) internal and not external once you reach a certain age. The internal processes will however never change.
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#34

Postby quietvoice » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:29 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Again, I ask if you believe that 100% of people born with autism are incapable of ever having a healthy intimate relationship?

Based upon the information I have thus far gathered, yes, I believe that they are incapable of a normal intimate relationship with a normal person (neurotypical), where the normal person gets their intimate relationship needs met by their partner.
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#35

Postby Algorithm » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:36 pm

quietvoice wrote:"I pretend to care about you so that I can get my needs met. Once I get you hooked, I can let go and not care about you, until I fear that I'll lose you, then I'll pretend again."


That has happened IRL but the pretend part is false. I did get an ego boost from the woman and I would say in retrospect that it was the only source of grief when I let her go. I realized that I don't actually miss her, only her validation of me (and the fact of who she was).

But I did truly like her so it's not black and white..

I made her jealous one episode with another women where she almost cried and just stood there as if I just ripped out her heart. I dropped the other woman and went up and hugged her and said "She's just a friend".

That woman wasn't exactly a saint with me either and did the same thing with guys in front of me.
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#36

Postby Algorithm » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:49 pm

My woman friend who just arrived and embraced me went up to say hello to her and she wouldn't respond, and just looked down on the floor. The three of us standing there. Time just stopped.

Bare in mind that she had told me repeatedly, "I want you to hook up with someone", even though her body language indicated to me that she was lying....

So I just didn't know and wanted to find out if she was for real. It was possible after all that she was just a tease and that she really meant what she was saying. How could I know for sure??

Well, she wasn't for real. She lied. I'm happy it had a mild outcome...
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#37

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:08 am

quietvoice wrote:Based upon the information I have thus far gathered, yes, I believe that they are incapable of a normal intimate relationship with a normal person (neurotypical)...


A "normal" relationship is somewhat hard to define. I prefer the term "healthy".

There is no reason to believe that parents cannot have a healthy relationship with their child, just on the basis that the child has autism. Is it a "normal" parent/child relationship? Again, I'm not a big fan of that term. Certainly the parent/child relationship is to some degree different with a neuro-typical child, but is a "healthy" relationship impossible? I don't think so. I see plenty of evidence of parents having loving, caring, healthy relationships with the autistic child and the child responding in healthy, loving ways in return.

What about siblings? Totally impossible for siblings to have a healthy relationship with each other? I think plenty of evidence suggests it is possible.

What about coworkers? Totally impossible? I think plenty of evidence suggests it is possible for those with autism to have healthy relationships with their coworkers.

So if a person with autism can have a healthy relationship with parents, siblings, uncles, aunts, friends, coworkers, etc. why the exception for this one single aspect of life?

The bottom line, they sometimes can and do have healthy long term intimate relationships. It is not impossible. I'm not saying it is "normal" or even easy. But this idea that all people with autism are some monolith, incapable from birth of any semblance of a healthy relationship I think is wrong on many levels.

Granted, Algorithm may never get to the point where he is capable of intimacy. His self defeatist attitude is pretty well ingrained at this point. He has constructed elaborate defense mechanisms to shield him from rejection. Still, twenty years is sufficient time for potential change. Twenty years is time for advancements in our understanding of autism.

Last, I'm not buying that Algorithm is so helpless, a victim of neurological wiring that he cannot help. I think this is much more an image he wishes to maintain to protect himself, to rationalize his failures.
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#38

Postby Algorithm » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:54 am

If you have a disintegrated personality as a result of childhood trauma, the last woman you should mix with is someone playing mind games. One with disintegrated personality needs stability and reliance. Bad start to childhood, horrible start to adult life.

I had seen the jealousy event unfold 3 years before as a teen, just daydreaming in the classroom (I thought). Looked funny from where I was sitting. Two girls and me

I stepped into the philosophy hall and the first person I made eye contact with was this woman I daydreamed about that was causing a mess. Blonde hair....very beautiful.

I was searching to see if there was a blonde and she was right there. Most students were male. I knew she would be in there. There wasn't even another blonde there.

Then I sat down, she sat next to me and I instantly felt trouble with her phone in the future.. As it turned out, she wouldn't take my calls, or call me but not answer when I picked it up. Sounded as if she threw it in the aquarium. She would only reply back to text. Maybe she was just too nervous, because she was nervous sitting with me and fidgety.
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#39

Postby Candid » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:46 am

quietvoice wrote:My crush's childhood also sucked, with an abusive father and a mother doing some nasty things herself while he was growing up that I don't want to 'publicize' here. His one friend said that he's used to yelling and what-not from growing up and that is probably why he feels his relationship with fiance is normal.

Perhaps you could tell him from me that he'd be infinitely better off with you than with an aspie partner, but I doubt he'll listen. For some reason people attuned to abuse look for more abuse.

My best friend really didn't want me to marry Himself. When she and I met at the hairdressers on the day He and I were wed, she did her utmost to talk me out of it. For years now she's insisted on seeing me without him, which has been a welcome break for me. But because she moved a long way from where we live in His home town, I haven't seen her since autumn 2019.

She told me I was becoming more and more like Him. That he'd destroyed who I used to be.

As the saying goes, the truth hurts. I hadn't been aware of it, but now I am.
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#40

Postby Candid » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:05 am

quietvoice wrote:Aspies have no self-awareness; the aspie ego is so large it overshadows any sense of humility.

I hadn't seen it like that, but it makes sense.

My constant efforts to "help" Him communicate better have all been in vain.

Algorithm wrote:But if you want to blame it on aspergers rather than the actual person, then by all means - have a blast!

I haven't talked about abuse. Not deliberate abuse, anyway. It's chiefly a communication issue. I know he will never hit me (as husband #1 did). I believe he does his best to give me everything I want, in the material sense. For example, if I talk about a book I read long ago, he looks for a copy of it on the www. He just won't have a clue what point I was making about its content.

quietvoice wrote:An aspie lies his/her way into a neurotypical's life, then proceeds to emotionally abuse them.

Hmm.

It was I who chased Him. It was always I who left him, and he never pursued me. Then when I scored a traumatic brain injury and was quite helpless, I knew a) he wouldn't be involved with anyone else and b) he would immediately come to my rescue. I was right on both counts, even though at the time we were living about as far apart as you can get on this planet.

quietvoice wrote:The neurotypical is never happy in one of these relationships. They are always, always, always accomodating aspie's lack of all that makes an intimate relationship enjoyable. They are long-suffering while aspie enjoys his parasitic ways.

The bottom line is that those with this neurological deficit are emotional (and many times, not all the time, financial) parasites upon their partners or live-in family members.

Ouch.

Really. Ouch.
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#41

Postby Candid » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:18 am

I'd been away for a while and it was such a pleasure to log in and see three of my friends had posted their support one after the other. We seem to be the four Uncommon pillars now.

I blocked Algorithm halfway down page 2. I don't need to be seeing it online as well as living with it!
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#42

Postby Algorithm » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:34 pm

I will write here regardless of Candid reading it or not.

An aspie can the most loyal person you will ever encounter. He can also be incredibly self centered.

I'm sorry to learn that you have experienced a bad apple. You know what we do with bad apples? We throw them away.
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#43

Postby Algorithm » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:15 pm

I might add: sorry that YOU PICKED HIM. If you catch my drift.

There's always the abort mission button. I suggest you use it. You will never get him to understand. Never. You are banging your head against the wall.
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