A Few Words On Censorship

#240

Postby tokeless » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:17 pm

That may explain the anger in Italy as the whole point of the EU was mobility across borders. A failed experiment I would say.

Mmm, really? Outside of pandemic restrictions I'm sure free movement within the EU is still absolutely possible... are you a Brexiteer David? Now if you want to discuss failure, there's a subject.
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 366


#241

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:56 pm

tokeless wrote:Mmm, really? Outside of pandemic restrictions I'm sure free movement within the EU is still absolutely possible...


Outside of pandemic restrictions?

Who decides what those restrictions are, when they go into effect, and when the restrictions are lifted? What types of checks and balances are in place to make sure people in power do not abuse the restrictions, ie do not slide into tyranny?

The problem with pandemic restrictions is that they are highly arbitrary and can be turned on or off like a light switch. You can travel today, but not tomorrow. A new variant emerges and suddenly, overnight an executive mandate says you can’t travel more than 2.5k from your home, or you can’t go outside for more than an hour a day, etc. etc.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 11719
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1222

#242

Postby tokeless » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:03 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
tokeless wrote:Mmm, really? Outside of pandemic restrictions I'm sure free movement within the EU is still absolutely possible...


Outside of pandemic restrictions?

Who decides what those restrictions are, when they go into effect, and when the restrictions are lifted? What types of checks and balances are in place to make sure people in power do not abuse the restrictions, ie do not slide into tyranny?

The problem with pandemic restrictions is that they are highly arbitrary and can be turned on or off like a light switch. You can travel today, but not tomorrow. A new variant emerges and suddenly, overnight an executive mandate says you can’t travel more than 2.5k from your home, or you can’t go outside for more than an hour a day, etc. etc.


My point was that David seemed to be implying free movement was restricted because the EU had failed as a region of free movement generally which it clearly isn't. I'm sure you can see the current situation is atypical and as for any lasting impact we'll have to see. I can't see how 26 countries that trade and have shared interests in terms of unity would want to prevent people still being able to move freely. The only people I hear who think Europe is the problem are little Englanders.
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 366

#243

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:54 pm

tokeless wrote:I'm sure you can see the current situation is atypical and as for any lasting impact we'll have to see.


Some lasting impacts are easily forecast. There is a new threshold for rather arbitrary executive mandates. Politicians will not tire quickly of that new power.

And let’s say the pandemic ends tomorrow. So what? There will be children that become the next generation of politicians and because of what they experienced during the pandemic they will think it is perfectly acceptable to arbitrarily restrict freedoms in exchange for votes.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 11719
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1222

#244

Postby tokeless » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:10 pm

There will be children that become the next generation of politicians and because of what they experienced during the pandemic they will think it is perfectly acceptable to arbitrarily restrict freedoms in exchange for votes.

Possibly so, but our inherent class system is the gene pool of our political classes in the UK I think.
The last part is the same as giving up freedoms to be safe... terrorisms gift to the tyrants. I have had very honest discussions with boy my children about the importance of privacy etc... the older one shrugged at the time whilst staring at his phone... he gets it now he's older. My youngest does the same... this is why I think social media targets them early, so it's normalised.
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 366

#245

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:20 pm

tokeless wrote:Possibly so, but our inherent class system is the gene pool of our political classes in the UK I think.


Good point. We have a similar class system, the political elite.

Still, there are plenty of politics outside the elite. There are city mayors, school boards, union leaders, etc. We will have a generation of people that find nothing wrong with arbitrary rules being created and enforced by whoever wields the most power.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 11719
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1222

#246

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:07 pm

[quote

Who decides what those restrictions are, when they go into effect, and when the restrictions are lifted? What types of checks and balances are in place to make sure people in power do not abuse the restrictions, ie do not slide into tyranny?

The problem with pandemic restrictions is that they are highly arbitrary and can be turned on or off like a light switch. You can travel today, but not tomorrow. A new variant emerges and suddenly, overnight an executive mandate says you can’t travel more than 2.5k from your home"
-----------------

I must say I never thought I'd ever have agreed with Thatcher but, really, she was right about Europe. Thatcher was pro American since she figured America at the time was a territory where all nationalities got equal treatment. That included Jews, Muslims, Africans and Europeans. True, you can argue African Americans always had a rocky ride but I think in the 1970s equality had improved.
Now, look at the E.U. They have a deep history of fascism and dictatorship. They recently caused a bloody conflict in the Ukraine by pushing Kiev to join the E.U. They are now firing rubber bullets at those who choose not to risk an untested vaccine. They are hoping to ban so-called Right Wing parties (those who oppose water cannons and rubber bullets). Jews are fleeing France due to attacks on synagogues. Personally too, I think the so-called European Social Charter has to be the greatest farce of the century. Who seriously believes there is freedom of opinion and expression in the E.U.?
It seems the architects of a united Europe were mostly Raegan and Gorbachev. Thatcher was very lukewarm. She figured Europe could never be a peaceful democracy. This funnily enough is being proven to be correct.
davidbanner99@
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 22

#247

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:19 pm

Here is what the EU claims to represent:

Article 14 of the ECHR prohibits any discrimination in the enjoyment of the rights of the Convention (right to life, right to respect for private and family life, freedom of expression, freedom of thought, conscience and religion, etc.) on “any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status”.

And here is the E.U. in practice. What they really think about freedom of thought:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGsxPsZCUqU
davidbanner99@
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 22

#248

Postby tokeless » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:57 pm

Thatcher was pro American since she figured America at the time was a territory where all nationalities got equal treatment.

You forgot how she alongside Reagan opened the gates to unregulated capitalism which enabled exploitation of workers, less protection of rights and the start of the erosion of the UKs industries. Easy to miss I guess. Didn't she set her stormtroopers on horseback against the miners at Orgreave?

True, you can argue African Americans always had a rocky ride but I think in the 1970s equality had improved.

That's a very revisionist view I must say, but at least Tom wasn't forced to slave for their masser nomore in the big house. A bit like women's rights improved because they could work and vote. Not perfect but can you have perfect? Don't forget it was Clinton who refused to support the movement to compensate black people for the acts against them with slavery, yet he had no hesitation with the Jewish lobby seeking damages for their loss, which is correct, but why not black people David? After all America was built on the backs of black people wasn't it?

Now, look at the E.U. They have a deep history of fascism and dictatorship.

You can't use they to describe the continent, especially when other countries in 'they' gave their lives fighting fascism.

They recently caused a bloody conflict in the Ukraine by pushing Kiev to join the E.U.

You mean Russia? That isn't they either, seeing as Russia fought the fascists in ww2

They are hoping to ban so-called Right Wing parties (those who oppose water cannons and rubber bullets).
Those right wing groups that also have links with antisemitism and other hate groups who target migrants for the blame?


Jews are fleeing France due to attacks on synagogues

I'm not surprised when the right is on the march. Must admit though, haven't seen it reported in such terms in the UK.

Personally too, I think the so-called European Social Charter has to be the greatest farce of the century. Who seriously believes there is freedom of opinion and expression in the E.U.?

Who created the European court of human rights? The oppressors of rights?? How odd... yet the UK want to leave it, alongside its protections for workers rights? Ironic no?

It seems the architects of a united Europe were mostly Raegan and Gorbachev. Thatcher was very lukewarm. She figured Europe could never be a peaceful democracy. This funnily enough is being proven to be correct.[/quote]

Thatcher was a vindictive and cruel prime minister who started the slide in this country, alongside Reagan... do look old Ronnie up when you get chance...real nice guy. Have you ever looked at the 14 points of fascism? I think there's about a solid 12 for the US, if not 13. Under a Trumpian POTUS, you're looking at a full house.
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 366

#249

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:31 pm

tokeless wrote:Thatcher was pro American since she figured America at the time was a territory where all nationalities got equal treatment.

You forgot how she alongside Reagan opened the gates to unregulated capitalism which enabled exploitation of workers, less protection of rights and the start of the erosion of the UKs industries. Easy to miss I guess. Didn't she set her stormtroopers on horseback against the miners at Orgreave?

True, you can argue African Americans always had a rocky ride but I think in the 1970s equality had improved.

That's a very revisionist view I must say, but at least Tom wasn't forced to slave for their masser nomore in the big house. A bit like women's rights improved because they could work and vote. Not perfect but can you have perfect? Don't forget it was Clinton who refused to support the movement to compensate black people for the acts against them with slavery, yet he had no hesitation with the Jewish lobby seeking damages for their loss, which is correct, but why not black people David? After all America was built on the backs of black people wasn't it?

Now, look at the E.U. They have a deep history of fascism and dictatorship.

You can't use they to describe the continent, especially when other countries in 'they' gave their lives fighting fascism.

They recently caused a bloody conflict in the Ukraine by pushing Kiev to join the E.U.

You mean Russia? That isn't they either, seeing as Russia fought the fascists in ww2

They are hoping to ban so-called Right Wing parties (those who oppose water cannons and rubber bullets).
Those right wing groups that also have links with antisemitism and other hate groups who target migrants for the blame?


Jews are fleeing France due to attacks on synagogues

I'm not surprised when the right is on the march. Must admit though, haven't seen it reported in such terms in the UK.

Personally too, I think the so-called European Social Charter has to be the greatest farce of the century. Who seriously believes there is freedom of opinion and expression in the E.U.?

Who created the European court of human rights? The oppressors of rights?? How odd... yet the UK want to leave it, alongside its protections for workers rights? Ironic no?

It seems the architects of a united Europe were mostly Raegan and Gorbachev. Thatcher was very lukewarm. She figured Europe could never be a peaceful democracy. This funnily enough is being proven to be correct.


Thatcher was a vindictive and cruel prime minister who started the slide in this country, alongside Reagan... do look old Ronnie up when you get chance...real nice guy. Have you ever looked at the 14 points of fascism? I think there's about a solid 12 for the US, if not 13. Under a Trumpian POTUS, you're looking at a full house.[/quote]


The question is would Thatcher have gone along with forcing vaccines? I recall she once told Raegan tear gas and rubber bullets wasn't acceptable in Britain. Not even in the poll tax riots. That's the point. Thatcher was pretty Right Wing but still believed in democracy. When you see France, Italy and the Netherlands literally forcing workers to risk untested vaccines, that to me is serious dictatorship. Granted, the Italian people are determined to fight back but you have to ask: What sort of government represses freedom of opinion and thought? That is, these people don't want to be used as chemical guineae pigs. They stand on their right to say no. Personally I think the EU is a disgrace. I used to be very pro European but probably never again. In fact, bad as things are in the UK I don't think it's yet as bad as Europe. The lesser of evils perhaps.
davidbanner99@
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 22

#250

Postby tokeless » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:27 am

The question is would Thatcher have gone along with forcing vaccines?
Well, that's purely rhetorical because we'll never know that. What she was prepared to do, was dismantle a state support system that helped the poor, which had it flaws and could have been fixed instead of dismantled. She didn't mind using force for her needs with Orgreave, the poll tax riots, which was done because it wasn't democratic. Remember the Belgrano? That was against international law.


I recall she once told Raegan tear gas and rubber bullets wasn't acceptable in Britain.

That may and should be the case, but she is hardly likely to state publically she does. The woman was all about managing public image.. The Iron Lady. As stated she didn't mind truncheons to the heads of miners who were trying to challenge her tyranny against the unions.

Thatcher was pretty Right Wing but still believed in democracy.

As long as it was her vision of it.

When you see France, Italy and the Netherlands literally forcing workers to risk untested vaccines, that to me is serious dictatorship.

I don't see people being literally forced, but I see the concerns. I don't think we are yet in the dictatorship stakes.


What sort of government represses freedom of opinion and thought?

All governments do this to varying degrees. The leader of the free world being one, China another and the UK on the bucket list.

That is, these people don't want to be used as chemical guineae pigs. They stand on their right to say no.

They can. Are you saying people are having their arms held and are being injected forcefully? What about people who choose to have the vaccine? Should they be targeted as weak, stupid, followers of tyranny, because that's what's happening in your version of democracy David

Personally I think the EU is a disgrace. I used to be very pro European but probably never again.

That's no problem, it's your opinion. I used to feel quite proud of my country. I think living elsewhere can make you see the real positives of where you are from. Now, I feel embarrassed because of how my government presents my country to the world. Again, it's an opinion

In fact, bad as things are in the UK I don't think it's yet as bad as Europe. The lesser of evils perhaps.

That's using whataboutery to look for comfort. This has only just began. Covid has been a useful veil for Brexit in my view. Even our US masters have arms lengthed us, lucky we still have those other Democrats to trade with like Brazil and China.
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 366

#251

Postby Candid » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:57 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:We will have a generation of people that find nothing wrong with arbitrary rules being created and enforced by whoever wields the most power.

They will because they can.

Majority compliance with absurd masking, antisocial distancing, lockdowns to prevent herd immunity, deathjabs and vaxpasses have clearly shown the tragedy inherent in sheeplike Obedience To Authority, the title of Milgram's seminal work. He set out to discover why so many decent, ordinary citizens made the holocaust possible.

Of course, it's wrong to compare the coronahoax to that earlier holocaust. 10 reasons why Holocaust comparisons fall short https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/ ... t-opinion/, from which I quote
"10) They estimate that 75 million people died in World War II. Those who have any inkling of what’s going on today would settle for that number right now and consider it a blessing."
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9584
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 483

#252

Postby tokeless » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:18 am

Of course, it's wrong to compare the coronahoax to that earlier holocaust.

So who did other than the author of that piece. Not once have I heard the comparison, then again I am blind to knowledge, deaf to information and just a sheep like fool. Can you provide me with where this comparison was made seer of all things true? I need the light
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 366

#253

Postby Candid » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:33 am

tokeless wrote:Of course, it's wrong to compare the coronahoax to that earlier holocaust.

So who did other than the author of that piece. Not once have I heard the comparison, then again I am blind to knowledge, deaf to information and just a sheep like fool. Can you provide me with where this comparison was made seer of all things true? I need the light

No problem.

"Regardless of where you stand on the vaccine debate, threatening to take away someone’s livelihood, preventing them from being able to ride public transportation or preventing them from going to school because they have chosen not to get the vaccine is a reminder of what Vera Sherav experienced as a child at the hands of the Nazi regime."
from https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/ca ... overreach/ Includes footage of Vera Sherav.

And from the comparison article cited:
"4) The Nazis built a robust propaganda machine, but the mass media was largely independent, even if they were sympathetic to the bad guys.

Today the mass media is the propaganda machine, and they barely disguise their allegiance to the official narrative. The establishment controls what is reported and even dictates the words to be used. You’re more likely to find ad-libbing at a Broadway play than a “newscast”. Hitler would be jealous."
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/ ... t-opinion/
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9584
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 483

#254

Postby Candid » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:37 am

tokeless wrote:I need the light

Here you go. https://thelightpaper.co.uk/
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9584
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 483


PreviousNext

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Psychology