A Few Words On Censorship

#315

Postby tokeless » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm

I guess what keeps popping in my mind is the kids that were on the beach being fined for breaking a public health mandate. I got the feeling you felt that they should have just complied. For me, the same as the vaccine is a personal choice, so is it a personal choice how a person deals with all of these mandates.

Here's where I stand on this... I have broken, breached more laws than I can list, some serious and others less so. If you decide to follow that path, you have to either be smart or fast. Smart so you don't get caught and fast to escape if you get seen. These kids got caught... no big deal for me. They made a choice and in some ways I support it, but getting caught doesn't give you the right to scream tyranny.
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#316

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:00 pm

Just found this. Anyone noticed how gradually the heat is being directed at politicians? This is Gove assuming he was going for a normal exit when scores of pretty angry protestors mob him.
There comes a point where overstepping the function of elected representation (to serve the electorate) and mandating obligatory medical intervention, creates increasing social tension:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OXs4L2Xk6GQ
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#317

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:07 pm

tokeless wrote: I've campaigned, I've fought the law and the law won. I'm not passive, just wiser and I look after what I can change, which is what I can touch in real time.


You are telling me that you have consistently failed? How does that happen? It would be interesting to dig deeper into how you understand the dynamics of campaigning for change.

The average for nurses now is 33k annual, and the average median income is 31.5k annually. I don’t know how it was in 1985/86, but I wouldn’t expect the average for nurses to be too far above the median. Why? Because, like all first responder jobs, there is a sufficient supply of people capable and willing to do those jobs.

Or maybe you believe the pay a person receives should not be a question of economics, but of morality, i.e. the teacher should be paid more than the rock star or professional athlete?

What fight have you fought Richard? Did it change anything or just you?


I mean, every call for service was to help others. But this is more things that I could “touch in real time”. And every natural disaster where I’ve responded has been a local effort. I testified in two capital murder trials, both men were executed. But again, this is local, right? And I testified as an expert witness against the Chicago convention center, with the injured party being awarded 31 million. Again, local…right? Or did having to pay out 31 million have a ripple effect on how the industry operated?

And now my day to day efforts help others but it is harder to quantify the “real time” aspects. I just hit over 160,000 students! I have touched millions of lives with my content all around the world, if only briefly. It’s hard to measure the impacts, but I find it incredibly exciting. It’s always fun to get those emails asking for permission to use my content.

But, you are talking big change…

I helped change fire codes for the convention and tourism industry. I participated in the process of developing codes that would initially impact Las Vegas, but then be adopted nationally and eventually internationally in the International Fire Code. And the process was just a small group of people, around ten of us meeting and writing up proposed amendments to the code The impacts? Again hard to tell, because it is not easy to tell how many lives are saved or injuries avoid by preventing harm.

One of the more exciting projects that I just provided some feedback on was an online course to help law enforcement make better decisions under high stakes time pressure. I hope I can get more involved in that project, but who knows? Still, even offering my advice on the pilot program has been rewarding. And generally speaking, the training offered here in the USA gets adopted by other countries. The potential impacts? Less people killed or injured, both citizens and officers. It is exciting and hopefully I will be able to contribute more to the process.

Maybe I’m wrong, but possibly your local actions have had more of an impact than you realize. Maybe not. I don’t know.
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#318

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:14 pm

tokeless wrote:..but getting caught doesn't give you the right to scream tyranny.


Why not?

If a government has instituted a cruel and oppressive mandate, then there is nothing wrong with calling it tyrannical. Is it possibly hyperbolic to scream tyranny, when the mandate seems rather limited? Possibly.

But, this is where we are at…it isn’t just a mandate not to go to a beach. It’s mandate after mandate after mandate, many of which are extremely arbitrary and not backed by science, but instead are just developed by boards of unelected people with some sort of “best guess” concepts, e.g. you can’t leave your home or go more than 2.5km, or go to the beach, etc. etc.

We can rationalize how any individual mandate isn’t cruel or oppressive, e.g. a no beach mandate, but when you start adding it all together, it is very much tyrannical.
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#319

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:48 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
tokeless wrote:..but getting caught doesn't give you the right to scream tyranny.


Why not?

If a government has instituted a cruel and oppressive mandate, then there is nothing wrong with calling it tyrannical. Is it possibly hyperbolic to scream tyranny, when the mandate seems rather limited? Possibly.

But, this is where we are at…it isn’t just a mandate not to go to a beach. It’s mandate after mandate after mandate, many of which are extremely arbitrary and not backed by science, but instead are just developed by boards of unelected people with some sort of “best guess” concepts, e.g. you can’t leave your home or go more than 2.5km, or go to the beach, etc. etc.

We can rationalize how any individual mandate isn’t cruel or oppressive, e.g. a no beach mandate, but when you start adding it all together, it is very much tyrannical.

Agreed.
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#320

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:05 pm

This is very much crunch time. What I'm noticing is a lot of sudden job vacancies, even signs inviting new applicants. It even gives the appearance of some kind of ethnic (medicinal cleansing), whereby the non-vaccinated are denied employment. And all of it lies from A to Z. That is, first it was only hospital or care jobs, when in fact you can see this applies to retail, fire service, construction and presumably all employment. And, of course, the vaccine isn't just one process but a small part of a whole process of "top-ups" and new strains. Need I add, no liability of the drug companies is in the equation.
I can only guess at the outcome. For one, millions of people share the same views I do. Very many have left employment. A wise choice, since to back down would mean tests and vaccines every so many weeks. Utter lunacy!
You can now see the food shortages and especially hard hit will be care homes, since a lot of carers quit.
Your guess is as good as mine as to the end result. However, to leave millions of people unemployed on the basis of forced vaccination is indeed a very risky venture. Every day the tension mounts. Even the vaccinated are beginning to work out they face many more such vaccines.
Whatever happens ultimately will decide the future. Personally I'm hoping resistance will become massive and effective.
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#321

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:15 pm

I should add I do have the advantage of being a Stoical loser. A bit like Archer in the movie "Scum". That is, I'm used to struggle and being on the sidelines. Not at all socialised. Therefore, no easy matter to remove a career that never existed. Plus my monastic, simple lifestyle. For others it will often be hard to come to terms with being on the fringes, and realising the system can't be trusted. Years ago someone said if society ever breaks down, biker groups like The Hells Angels would be typical survivors. Maybe they meant to say such people live simply and are pretty tough and knit together.
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#322

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:28 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:Your guess is as good as mine as to the end result. However, to leave millions of people unemployed on the basis of forced vaccination is indeed a very risky venture. Every day the tension mounts. Even the vaccinated are beginning to work out they face many more such vaccines.
Whatever happens ultimately will decide the future. Personally I'm hoping resistance will become massive and effective.


On this issue I think we are fairly well aligned. We don’t have a crystal ball. There is no way to accurately forecast the future, but I am encouraged when I see people standing against the mandates.

To be clear, I think there is a huge difference between tokeless and foresaken. Tokeless decided to get the vaccine as a personal health decision. Foresaken complied out of fear. Not fear of a health issue, but fear of being cut out of society. For tokeless it was freedom of choice. For foresaken it was coercion.

When I say not to comply, I mean do not be coerced into going against your principles. And that is not easy. I feel for foresaken. I don’t think foresaken is a “moral coward”. I don’t blame foresaken. I blame the arrogant #$@&*#@‘s that believe that it is okay to abuse their power and threaten and scare people with various cruel and oppressive consequences if they don’t do whatever they are told.
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#323

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:12 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:Your guess is as good as mine as to the end result. However, to leave millions of people unemployed on the basis of forced vaccination is indeed a very risky venture. Every day the tension mounts. Even the vaccinated are beginning to work out they face many more such vaccines.
Whatever happens ultimately will decide the future. Personally I'm hoping resistance will become massive and effective.


On this issue I think we are fairly well aligned. We don’t have a crystal ball. There is no way to accurately forecast the future, but I am encouraged when I see people standing against the mandates.

To be clear, I think there is a huge difference between tokeless and foresaken. Tokeless decided to get the vaccine as a personal health decision. Foresaken complied out of fear. Not fear of a health issue, but fear of being cut out of society. For tokeless it was freedom of choice. For foresaken it was coercion.

When I say not to comply, I mean do not be coerced into going against your principles. And that is not easy. I feel for foresaken. I don’t think foresaken is a “moral coward”. I don’t blame foresaken. I blame the arrogant #$@&*#@‘s that believe that it is okay to abuse their power and threaten and scare people with various cruel and oppressive consequences if they don’t do whatever they are told.


Not many people knew when Ali refused induction to Vietnam, it was his decision alone. It was based on his own principle. The Nation Of Islam advised Ali to be inducted. After all, he wasn't going to the front line. Ali inevitably chose to say no. He became a hated figure in America and called a coward. What he said at the time was it felt wrong for him personally as an ordained minister. He lost his boxing licence and the Nation Of Islam ditched him. There was a guy who had everything to lose. Few people are that strong. Most people I see daily seem to have convinced themselves it must be the right thing to do as deep down they fear loss of income or travel rights. My point is though what's right is a point of self principle. It's what the individual believes is right. For me, I had an awareness the liberties earned by WW2 vets have been rubbished by corrupt, spoiled politicians since the 1990s. Maybe people failed to notice the loss of right to choose your own job and the educational cuts. The only way ultimately to fix this current mess is constitutional reform and accountability in politics.
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#324

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:39 am

Some bickering in the tabloids about Michael Gove being mobbed by protesters. Yes, clearly it shook him up, as the footage makes clear. Maybe it suggests an increasingly huge gulf between the elite in office and those getting angrier over policy that's having a devastating effect. It draws closer to the end days of Tsarist Russia under Nicholas the 2nd. Same thing with Boris. The guy did his degree in Latin, which is admirable but he's way way removed from the regular man on the street. Historically this has happened repeatedly. An isolated elite who have little real awareness of reality at the normal level.
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#325

Postby tokeless » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:46 am

davidbanner99@ wrote:This is very much crunch time. What I'm noticing is a lot of sudden job vacancies, even signs inviting new applicants. It even gives the appearance of some kind of ethnic (medicinal cleansing), whereby the non-vaccinated are denied employment. And all of it lies from A to Z. That is, first it was only hospital or care jobs, when in fact you can see this applies to retail, fire service, construction and presumably all employment. And, of course, the vaccine isn't just one process but a small part of a whole process of "top-ups" and new strains. Need I add, no liability of the drug companies is in the equation.
I can only guess at the outcome. For one, millions of people share the same views I do. Very many have left employment. A wise choice, since to back down would mean tests and vaccines every so many weeks. Utter lunacy!
You can now see the food shortages and especially hard hit will be care homes, since a lot of carers quit.
Your guess is as good as mine as to the end result. However, to leave millions of people unemployed on the basis of forced vaccination is indeed a very risky venture. Every day the tension mounts. Even the vaccinated are beginning to work out they face many more such vaccines.
Whatever happens ultimately will decide the future. Personally I'm hoping resistance will become massive and effective.


A lot of job vacancies are due to various factors, such as businesses going bust because of covid. They couldn't cope with the loss of revenue. Another, and perhaps the biggest is Brexit. The country underestimated the number of foreign workers we relied on and now they have gone, we're feeling the effects. If you think tyranny is causing it, then I predict we will soon see people forced to take these jobs or lose your benefits... then we may see a backlash because these jobs were considered too low paid, too hard for us Brits, hence get migrants to do them.... wake up call coming I think
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#326

Postby Candid » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:38 am

davidbanner99@ wrote:I have some friends from years back who told me they had had this virus. In that particular case, it seems it was genuine. It took them 2 weeks to get well but, of course, they did get better. The true picture is thousands of people do get better.

I agree. As mentioned, I think I had a dose of WuFlu late January 2020. There's also plenty of literature about having acquired immunity naturally, as I would have done from fighting it off; and about natural immunity being knocked out by the jabs.

Even if the jabs were vaccines, as they clearly are NOT, mass jabbing doesn't take into account anyone's individual needs. No wonder so many are sick and dying from them!

Many other cases are often just psychosomatic.

No doubt about it. With common cold symptoms prominent on the list, and the relentless "news" about this terrible threat, plus in many cases being cut off from other people AND seeing masked faces wherever they go, it's hardly surprising gullible people are constantly examining themselves for signs of illness.
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#327

Postby Candid » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:46 am

Countdown to zero immunity; UK government stats show jab victims are losing immune function by the week. https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-10-18- ... -week.html

"If the trend holds, the next six months will see a global wave of vaccine victims dying from cancer and common infections."
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#328

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:47 pm

tokeless wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:This is very much crunch time. What I'm noticing is a lot of sudden job vacancies, even signs inviting new applicants. It even gives the appearance of some kind of ethnic (medicinal cleansing), whereby the non-vaccinated are denied employment. And all of it lies from A to Z. That is, first it was only hospital or care jobs, when in fact you can see this applies to retail, fire service, construction and presumably all employment. And, of course, the vaccine isn't just one process but a small part of a whole process of "top-ups" and new strains. Need I add, no liability of the drug companies is in the equation.
I can only guess at the outcome. For one, millions of people share the same views I do. Very many have left employment. A wise choice, since to back down would mean tests and vaccines every so many weeks. Utter lunacy!
You can now see the food shortages and especially hard hit will be care homes, since a lot of carers quit.
Your guess is as good as mine as to the end result. However, to leave millions of people unemployed on the basis of forced vaccination is indeed a very risky venture. Every day the tension mounts. Even the vaccinated are beginning to work out they face many more such vaccines.
Whatever happens ultimately will decide the future. Personally I'm hoping resistance will become massive and effective.


A lot of job vacancies are due to various factors, such as businesses going bust because of covid. They couldn't cope with the loss of revenue. Another, and perhaps the biggest is Brexit. The country underestimated the number of foreign workers we relied on and now they have gone, we're feeling the effects. If you think tyranny is causing it, then I predict we will soon see people forced to take these jobs or lose your benefits... then we may see a backlash because these jobs were considered too low paid, too hard for us Brits, hence get migrants to do them.... wake up call coming I think


The impression I'm getting is employees are being told vaccines are conditional to stay employed. Some are quitting work.
I have a rough estimation of what may come next.
Michael Gove is not the first public figure to be mobbed and heckled. BBC authorities have also been challenged by angry groups. I can see major escalation on the way since those in politics are considering police escorts. As tension continues to ratchet up, fringes of the anti vax groups will likely become radicalised. That's what happened in ancient Rome around 60 AD because some Christian groups were more radical than others. That's what led to the first Christian persecution under Nero. So, polarisation is on the cards. Tabloids are referring to anti-vaxers as "thugs" or falsely claiming not having vaccines poses a risk to others. Of course, the term "anti-vaccine" is misleading. I personally believe in the science of medicine but not as a total substitute for our own immunity. The reason I rarely get colds is I live very exposed to germs and nature. I only take antibiotics in an emergency and never had flu vaccines. Real anti vaxers are still a minority.
I don't rule out the real possibility of massive social divide and continued escalation.
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#329

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:14 pm

Candid wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:I have some friends from years back who told me they had had this virus. In that particular case, it seems it was genuine. It took them 2 weeks to get well but, of course, they did get better. The true picture is thousands of people do get better.

I agree. As mentioned, I think I had a dose of WuFlu late January 2020. There's also plenty of literature about having acquired immunity naturally, as I would have done from fighting it off; and about natural immunity being knocked out by the jabs.

Even if the jabs were vaccines, as they clearly are NOT, mass jabbing doesn't take into account anyone's individual needs. No wonder so many are sick and dying from them!

Many other cases are often just psychosomatic.

No doubt about it. With common cold symptoms prominent on the list, and the relentless "news" about this terrible threat, plus in many cases being cut off from other people AND seeing masked faces wherever they go, it's hardly surprising gullible people are constantly examining themselves for signs of illness.

My take is a bit different to the mainstream because what I noticed is there were clear signs of hypochondria and paranoia before the virus psychosis. Whereas a lot of people feel the population is being manipulated and controlled, what I notice is much of the hysteria is in the population itself. People are willingly promoting alarmist, irrational fear of viruses. Now the key point is this is a symptom of premature dementia or "feeble-mindeness". You see these people every day, spraying door-knobs, driving around in masks. It may sound cruel and blunt but it's symptomatic of a feeble generation. Very unlike the 1940s when the population was enduring and hardy. So, it goes beyond the group at the top who manipulate the masses. I think the masses have symptoms of mass, social paranoia and premature dementia. The cause appears to be environmental. Lifestyle hasn't helped. Some studies by anthropologists revealed similar cases of social irrationality in periods of history, triggered by exogenic factors.
In many ways, Covid paranoia is very similar to the witchcraft madness that swept Europe. It's important to realise the populations today have little education in basic science. Do they teach Darwin in schools or the basics of biology? In many ways, parts of society are as unscientific as mediaeval peoples. A fertile ground for unsubstantiated fears, paranoias and hysteria.
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