A Few Words On Censorship

#750

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:57 pm

tokeless wrote: The American dream was and is very powerful even if unattainable for most imo


What do you mean by unattainable, precisely?

The "poor" in the USA have more wealth and access to resources than at least 70% of the global population. Our typical "poor" have food, electricity, Internet, own homes, cars, and have the latest iPhone or Android. They have access to free education and healthcare. And generation after generation, parents continue to leave their children in a better overall position.

What precisely, do you believe is unattainable for the latest generation? The American dream is pretty simple. It is to own your own home, a car, send your children to school and have enough for retirement. How is that no longer attainable?

If I was to pick a few issues, I think (1) housing might be less affordable in certain areas and (2) we really screwed up with not allowing students to file bankruptcy on student debt. But, do these alone mean for most the dream us unattainable? I don't think so.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 12140
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1273


#751

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:06 pm

I had a friend from Utah. We met in northern Spain and his Spanish was fluent. He told me poverty in the U.S. meant "poverty". Soup kitchens and so forth. It must be so as crime is very high in some areas.
The snag is while a good many Americans do live quite well, there are countless others who do not. It's a very unequal society.
The American dream I believe is over. My guess is what went wrong was failure to invest in education, which did happen in the 1950s - 60s. By comparison, Russia (still a much weaker economy) seems to have surpassed America by a large margin in aerospace and some technologies. While China is dominating electronics and industry.
The only comfort for Americans is the obvious failure so far of the E.U. to create a European dream.
davidbanner99@
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 37

#752

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:54 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:I had a friend from Utah.


Find better friends.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 12140
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1273

#753

Postby tokeless » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:21 am

In 2020, there were 37.2 million people in poverty, approximately 3.3 million more than in 2019 (Figure 8 and Table B-1).14 Sept 2021
https://www.census.gov › demo
Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020 - U.S. Census Bureau

That's just over 10% and will probably be the figures for the more extreme end, so they could be higher depending on how you define it. Considering the wealth of the country, the inequality is quite marked, yet it dream is still projected.
tokeless
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3025
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:17 pm
Likes Received: 394

#754

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:30 pm

tokeless wrote:In 2020, there were 37.2 million people in poverty…


So roughly 10% of the current population in the USA is poor. Three things:

-1- As previously stated, poor in the USA is not poor globally speaking. They are “poor” relative to others in the USA. The poor have food, electricity, shelter, free school, free medical care, the Internet and the latest iPhone or Android.

-2- What is the percentage of poor in any nation that accepts millions of immigrants each year? What’s the percentage of UK poor? I saw a source that said 20%? I’m not buying that “poor” in the UK is the same as poor in India.

-3- Poor doesn’t translate to lack of opportunity. There are many reasons people might be poor. There are jobs available everywhere in the USA. People are free to engage in whatever services they wish.

I think the idea that simply because poverty exists, that doesn’t prove lack of opportunity in and of itself. Millions of people are trying to get into the USA because of opportunity, in comparison to other options in life.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 12140
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1273

#755

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:38 pm

My misgivings about the U.S. don't specifically relate to poverty. I grant too, the U.S. has had many good points. Freedom was at least valued as a principle. Accountability in politics existed. I'm not quite sure how and why it started to go wrong. To be honest - and I speak seriously - the current decline of America is very similar to what happened to the Athenian Empire. Athens invented democracy but later came to twist democracy to subjugate other Greek states. I think Bush senior did massive damage and that was the turning point.
However the case may be, there is no country that can take the position America once had. Russia has accelerated its military but has no chance of ever becoming a free, democratic country. The E U. is on the verge of rounding up and isolating those who decline to be drugged by the State, in the name of hygiene. China is stable but who knows?
davidbanner99@
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 37

#756

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:08 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:My misgivings about the U.S. don't specifically relate to poverty. I grant too, the U.S. has had many good points. Freedom was at least valued as a principle.
However the case may be, there is no country that can take the position America once had.


To me, it is like asking when was the “golden age” of the Roman Empire? Or how about Ancient Greece, China, Japan, the British Empire, the Mayans, Aztecs, or what about the Spanish, the Persians, or Sumer?

We can ask this question about any nation, culture, or civilization. We can ponder and speculate and declare a “golden age or era”…we can declare a height and then a decline. This seems to be the natural flow of things, with no nation surviving forever.

Has the USA peaked? I agree, that the USA is in a worse state than I’ve seen in my life time. I see the decline. Yet, I am not so certain that this decline is not a temporary state of affairs. There is no reason to believe a collapse is imminent, but it might be death by a thousand cuts.

On the other hand, there is still plenty of opportunity in the USA. And the principle of freedom is still very much alive. Our system of decentralized power is messy, but it helps to maintain the core principles of freedom.

Also…what many people do not understand…is that our founding documents acknowledge inalienable rights. This is a very, very unique concept. These are rights not granted by the government. They are natural rights. They are rights you were born with.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 12140
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1273

#757

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:05 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:My misgivings about the U.S. don't specifically relate to poverty. I grant too, the U.S. has had many good points. Freedom was at least valued as a principle.
However the case may be, there is no country that can take the position America once had.


To me, it is like asking when was the “golden age” of the Roman Empire? Or how about Ancient Greece, China, Japan, the British Empire, the Mayans, Aztecs, or what about the Spanish, the Persians, or Sumer?

We can ask this question about any nation, culture, or civilization. We can ponder and speculate and declare a “golden age or era”…we can declare a height and then a decline. This seems to be the natural flow of things, with no nation surviving forever.

Has the USA peaked? I agree, that the USA is in a worse state than I’ve seen in my life time. I see the decline. Yet, I am not so certain that this decline is not a temporary state of affairs. There is no reason to believe a collapse is imminent, but it might be death by a thousand cuts.

On the other hand, there is still plenty of opportunity in the USA. And the principle of freedom is still very much alive. Our system of decentralized power is messy, but it helps to maintain the core principles of freedom.

Also…what many people do not understand…is that our founding documents acknowledge inalienable rights. This is a very, very unique concept. These are rights not granted by the government. They are natural rights. They are rights you were born with.


The good things about the U.S. in my view relate to the emphasis on self-responsibility. That gives personal freedom. In a sense too, owning a gun should be considered as part of that self-reliance. Of course, the downside is guns can fall into the wrong hands. Still, the point is what we see once more in Europe is states are armed to the teeth and dictating to mostly unarmed citizens. My guess is a lot more Americans can defend themselves in the event of dictatorship. Also, responsibility or pioneerism takes power away from governments. A fit, capable person doesn't need government interference. Time will tell if those old values will strong enough to knock back creeping dictatorship. I lost track of the California situation but last I heard schools were being protested and some parents keeping children at home. This, due to obligatory vaccination. Personally I would say enforced medication by God knows what drugs goes 380 degrees opposite to American pioneer values.
Here in the U.K. I'm noticing increased food shortages in stores. The once spotless and efficient high-street stores are boarded up and fast-food outlets in their place. Common to see are faceless street signs. Derelict bars. I'm aware the economy has shifted to online sales so clearly shops will be impacted. Still, I'd rather have all the shops as they were and see people meeting in bars and cafes. Time will tell. I agree there have always been crisis points. WW2 left London affected by heavy bombing and economic damage.
davidbanner99@
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 37

#758

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:39 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:Here in the U.K. I'm noticing increased food shortages in stores. The once spotless and efficient high-street stores are boarded up and fast-food outlets in their place. Common to see are faceless street signs. Derelict bars. I'm aware the economy has shifted to online sales so clearly shops will be impacted. Still, I'd rather have all the shops as they were and see people meeting in bars and cafes.


This is what I find interesting.

Outside of a few cities run by left wing politicians, the vast majority of the USA is open. Cafes, bars, restaurants, and shops are all open. People are going about business as usual. We are experiencing some shortages and higher prices, but life goes on. Each week we have stadiums packed with crowds as they watch sports. People are preparing to gather for the holidays.

So what you are noticing in the UK sounds desolate. What you see sounds like a society in decline. What I’m noticing is people free to do whatever they like. No masks, no vax pass. To me, that doesn’t sound like decline.
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 12140
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1273

#759

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:32 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:Here in the U.K. I'm noticing increased food shortages in stores. The once spotless and efficient high-street stores are boarded up and fast-food outlets in their place. Common to see are faceless street signs. Derelict bars. I'm aware the economy has shifted to online sales so clearly shops will be impacted. Still, I'd rather have all the shops as they were and see people meeting in bars and cafes.


This is what I find interesting.

Outside of a few cities run by left wing politicians, the vast majority of the USA is open. Cafes, bars, restaurants, and shops are all open. People are going about business as usual. We are experiencing some shortages and higher prices, but life goes on. Each week we have stadiums packed with crowds as they watch sports. People are preparing to gather for the holidays.

So what you are noticing in the UK sounds desolate. What you see sounds like a society in decline. What I’m noticing is people free to do whatever they like. No masks, no vax pass. To me, that doesn’t sound like decline.


Decline in Britain has been going on for the last three decades, I think. It used to be a terrific country. I mean, the pound used to fetch 2 dollars 40 or around. In my area there were lots of ceramics factories that exported all over the globe. Of course, back then competition was far lower due to part of the globe being communist.
Anyway, I've just done my shopping and a lot of stuff is missing from the shelves. Prices nearly doubled on some items.
davidbanner99@
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 37

#760

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:22 pm

Thought I'd share this. London typically in 1967. Can you see people here are normally proportioned? Nowadays in the UK some 80 per cent of people on the street are overweight. Yet, there was junk food in the 60s. Were they more active, ate home meals, less chemicals in food? You can see people seem healthy too. And the streets look clean.
No masks. No fear that by just walking around you're breaking laws.
Sure, in the 60s there were issues. Prior to 1967, being gay was a criminal offence. There was hidden domestic abuse. Less protection from sexual discrimination. Anyway, see how the clips relate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x3iNk6n84yw
davidbanner99@
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 pm
Likes Received: 37

#761

Postby Candid » Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:11 am

How about getting your priorities in order? Parliament is voting on vaxpasses today. While you're wittering on about obesity, we're heading into the biggest global disaster humanity has ever faced.

If you value democracy, freedom and fundamental human rights as to medical choice, personal autonomy and the right to privacy, please sign this petition. https://chng.it/GwKBVHYbTZ
User avatar
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9886
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 498

#762

Postby Candid » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:55 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Do you have sources that I don’t?

No doubt. My inbox is flooded every day with messages from organisations fighting the coronahoax.

The Coronavirus Bill (HC Bill 122) allows, among other things,

forced detention of anyone, including children, and for any amount of time

forcible collection of biological samples from anyone’s body

no clear access to legal rights for anyone detained in isolation facilities

lockdowns of up to two years and six months

weakening of state surveillance safeguards via track and trace

reduced protection from forcible detention and treatment under the Mental Health Act

where there is a death in police or any other form of custody the body can be disposed of without any medical examination, certification or inquest

cremation enforced against personal wishes or on religious grounds

no medical certification of deaths; all to be registered as covid-19 (yes, it says that)

NHS to be fully indemnified should it fail for any reason to provide care, leading to patient deaths

just one medical officer required to sign a compulsory treatment order, including enforced injections

local authorities exempt from compliance with their duties under the Care Act 2014

removal of all personal and civil rights under Common Law

Not everyone affected by this Bill is aware of it. It slipped through the House of Lords sometime last year. https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/rese ... 2020-0086/
User avatar
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9886
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 498

#763

Postby Candid » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:29 pm

davidbanner99@ wrote:Candid, what degree of socialisation does husband maintain?

He tends to get used for his Rain Man abilities, including by me. He craves company and is always out and about doing things for people he knows (his mother, his disabled cousin, elderly people he knows from his swimming group) but has only one long-term friend, best man at our wedding, who he was accustomed to visit (by friend's limits) on Friday evenings. Lots of Friday visits have been cancelled by his friend recently.

I should mention that the friend is bi-polar. He's also single although he has a nutty girlfriend who'll put up with anything (and I mean anything) and go on adoring him and pretending all is well. She's well into her 50s, as is her "lover", and she persists in referring to him as "my boyfriend". They don't live together. I've seen him at both ends and sometimes it ain't pretty. Husband went to school with the friend's brother, who'll say hello on the rare occasions they run into each other but never wants to arrange a meet-up. Actually H has a lot of "friends" from school who feel sorry for him and say hello, occasionally want to borrow money or have him fix something, but that's it.

I'm moving out early next year, in case you've missed references to a bolt-hole. He's orchestrating the move, doing much more running around for it than I am, and says he understands I'll need a week or a month or maybe six to recover. The perfect situation for both of us is living across town from each other, so that's what we're doing. I know I'll appreciate him more when we're "dating".

Having been married to him for years, once in separate hemispheres with no contact until I ran into trouble and knew there was only one person in the world I could count on to come to my rescue, there's still no question of divorce. I know I'll never leave him emotionally, I LOVE THIS MAN... but for both physical and mental health I have to live apart from my edition of Sheldon Cooper. I'm no Amy Farrah Fowler and I can no longer tolerate having my life controlled by someone else.
User avatar
Candid
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 9886
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 am
Likes Received: 498

#764

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:43 pm

Candid wrote:
Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Do you have sources that I don’t?

No doubt. My inbox is flooded every day with messages from organisations fighting the coronahoax.


I mean sources regarding 100% jabbed citizens of Gibraltar, population 33,676?

What is your explanation as to why the population is not yet plummeting?

https://www.worldometers.info/world-pop ... opulation/
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 12140
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1273


PreviousNext

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Psychology