A Few Words On Censorship

#300

Postby tokeless » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:47 am

quietvoice wrote:
tokeless wrote: and your parents did what was in your best interests.

I wonder if you think that it is in a child's best interests to strap a diaper across the child's face, as is a common scene across the world today.

I think that is child abuse.


Wearing face masks in certain countries predates covid. Many wear them because of pollution or post SARS concerns. It's probably best to let children breath pollution I guess... abuse? Don't be ridiculous
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#301

Postby Candid » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:04 am

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#302

Postby Candid » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:09 am

... and if you actually WANT herd immunity
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... d-immunity

We're obviously going to need it, now that the inventor of mRNA technology has pointed out that the “fully vaccinated” are the WuFlu super-spreaders https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fully ... echnology/

And by the way, that second link is yet another to mention the experiments of Nazi Germany.
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#303

Postby Candid » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:23 am

tokeless wrote:all these antivaxers have been vaccinated as children or at some point in life.

We’re NOT anti-vaxxers! https://www.rt.com/op-ed/533238-bbc-pre ... eneca/amp/?

For the record, I no longer trust the NHS. My GP surgery sent me a stream of letters and texts, and made at least two phone calls, hassling me about being injected. If they don't know what's in the jabs and what each ingredient is expected to do, they shouldn't be part of any healthcare system. Certainly they can't get anyone's informed consent.

And if they do know, as surely any doctor who isn't brain-dead must by now, they'll stand trial if/when the coronahoax is over.

Since that harassment stopped I've had texts asking, at various times, how tall I am, my nationality and my ethnicity, "to update our records". Given all the socially sanctioned gender-bending that now welcomes rapists into women's public toilets https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/mains ... rans-teen/, it's only a matter of time before they want to know my sex.

Not surprisingly, my height hasn't altered since I was in my early teens. My nationality, ethnicity and sex are on my birth certificate, and I was registered with the NHS soon afterwards. My family had the same GP for years, a woman who actually looked at her patients instead of at a computer screen, and who visited us in Australia after her retirement.

In recent years I've waited up to two hours in a waiting-room full of sick people and screaming kids for a pre-arranged appointment, and been rushed out by whatever GP in the practice happens to be next cab off the rank. Understandably they know nothing about me and don't have time to investigate.

Under this system most patients store up a list of their concerns, and a lot of potentially deadly issues are missed.

The NHS is rubbish now. I've stopped my annual dental checkups, and my cataracts remain untreated. If I need anything I'll go private and pay for it.
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#304

Postby tokeless » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:45 am

The NHS is rubbish now. I've stopped my annual dental checkups, and my cataracts remain untreated. If I need anything I'll go private and pay for it.

Which is exactly what the Tories want people to do. Pretend to value the NHS but gradually wear it down and demand more that you know it can't deliver because of undermining it.. watch the reaction and offer the solution. You must know that tired equation Candid?
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#305

Postby quietvoice » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:21 am

tokeless wrote:Wearing face masks in certain countries predates covid. Many wear them because of pollution or post SARS concerns. It's probably best to let children breath pollution I guess... abuse? Don't be ridiculous

YOU KNOW VERY WELL THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

(People just love to take things out of context, don't they.)

You do know that masks are less than worthless, they are harmful, when there is no reason to put them on. And there isn't, is there? (outside of areas of heavy pollution)

Therefore, it is self-abuse of non-thinking adults, and it is outright abuse to all children who feel they must listen to or are forced by the non-thinking adults in their lives. It is abuse to small children for the adults in their lives themselves to cover their faces while interacting with the child

This world is insane.
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#306

Postby quietvoice » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:19 pm

quietvoice wrote:
davidbanner99@ wrote:. . cancer . .

One can get rid of "cancer" through raw food/fresh raw fruit living, with botanicals (herbs) to support systems in the body. One doesn't have to go the allopathic route which is torturous, harmful, and doesn't go to the root of the problem which is bad lifestyle choices.


video clip, 1:44 minutes.
^^^ Yes! Someone made a video clip of my favorite doctor . . .
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#307

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:53 pm

tokeless wrote: I have faith in that NHS because I am one of them. The vaccines are created by people who aren't ministers, but, again people who want to create ways of managing diseases... they are not government.


There is a very significant difference between the well intentioned men and women that work for an organization and those that lead the organization. We see this in most organizations. Faith in the people is one thing. Faith in the leadership is another.

Political pressures at the top of most organizations can quickly destroy an organization. The head of the NHS is appointed, correct? And politicians like Boris Johnson are involved in the process, right?

The same…or something similar occurs in almost all agencies. The top leadership are political creatures. This translates to a lot of great people can be working for an agency, yet the agency itself can quickly go down a less than good path.

Look beyond the NHS. How is it possible that all these health organizations are coming up with vastly different recommendations? It isn’t because the science is different. It isn’t because the men and women working in these agencies are different. It’s the politics.

The irony is all these antivaxers have been vaccinated as children or at some point in life. They will have been cared for by their healthcare system too more than likely.


Yes. But, this doesn’t mean they should trust the politics coming out of the NHS. This doesn’t mean they should blindly follow, just because the NHS has previously done good things. When people see other countries that aren’t relentlessly pushing vaccines, are not pushing masks, are offering other treatment options, and are apparently doing fairly well, why should they just accept that the NHS is on the right side of things? Why should it just be, “Shut up and comply! We treated you in the past. Ignore all the information from other countries…unless they are following the NHS way.”?

So, I can be sceptical of my or any government yet still believe in what I see and experience as real and honest. This is why i believe in the NHS Richard


I think it is great that you believe in the people working for the NHS. I have faith in them as well. But I can still be skeptical of the politics taking place within the NHS, especially at the top levels. I can still reasonably ask why the hell anyone should comply with some of the ridiculous mandates. And I can reasonably compare the results across the world that clearly demonstrate the vaccine/mask/lockdown/passport strategy is an utter failure.
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#308

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:11 pm



It's the story of the naked king and his invisible suit. The fable made fun of the absurd views people would embrace under peer pressure. Nobody dares deviate from absurdity, for fear of appearing stupid.
I class the custom of covering up airways as mass psychotic delusion. It's a socially driven, ritualistic fear mechanism, possibly rooted in premature dementia. In fact, the whole Covid delirium is rooted in fear, avoidance and ritualistic measures.
I have some friends from years back who told me they had had this virus. In that particular case, it seems it was genuine. It took them 2 weeks to get well but, of course, they did get better. The true picture is thousands of people do get better. Many other cases are often just psychosomatic.
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#309

Postby davidbanner99@ » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:28 pm

I personally have no issue over Tokeless choosing to have a vaccine. For me, the real issue is that those of us who are skeptical and choose to decline are being coerced, blackmailed or threatened. Sadly, that inevitably causes division. In my case, friends I have who took this vaccine are still friends. I can't run their lives for them. My best friend has always been a hypochondriac so she rushed to have her vaccine. As did her daughter. She texted me the other day to say her daughter is now seriously ill in hospital. I can't say how big a factor the vaccine has been as there were other health issues. However, it seems to me people are noticing various health issues. Time will tell. What we see is the usual arrogance of politicians who act without any accountability and dismiss calls for caution. It happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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#310

Postby tokeless » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:57 pm

There is a very significant difference between the well intentioned men and women that work for an organization and those that lead the organization. We see this in most organizations. Faith in the people is one thing. Faith in the leadership is another.

Agree.

Political pressures at the top of most organizations can quickly destroy an organization. The head of the NHS is appointed, correct? And politicians like Boris Johnson are involved in the process, right?

Agree

The same…or something similar occurs in almost all agencies. The top leadership are political creatures. This translates to a lot of great people can be working for an agency, yet the agency itself can quickly go down a less than good path.

They are often appointed because they will do what is asked over what is needed. Good nazi's, I heard the term to describe this.

Look beyond the NHS. How is it possible that all these health organizations are coming up with vastly different recommendations? It isn’t because the science is different. It isn’t because the men and women working in these agencies are different. It’s the politics.

Correct. It's the same as how different countries manage their economy and provide services for the population. As already mentioned, our class system is designed to prevent change... I have also agreed that SAGE was compromised imo. When you ask too many 'experts', you get too many answers. These will often contradict. I guess you have to hope for the best answers.... this is why we made such a mess of ours. We didn't want those answers, we wanted 'that' answer.

Yes. But, this doesn’t mean they should trust the politics coming out of the NHS. This doesn’t mean they should blindly follow, just because the NHS has previously done good things. When people see other countries that aren’t relentlessly pushing vaccines, are not pushing masks, are offering other treatment options, and are apparently doing fairly well, why should they just accept that the NHS is on the right side of things? Why should it just be, “Shut up and comply! We treated you in the past. Ignore all the information from other countries…unless they are following the NHS way.”?

Correct. I have never told anyone what to choose or not. I chose to accept the vaccines, based on my own understanding. What I object to is being told I'm a sheep, a moral coward because of my choice.

I think it is great that you believe in the people working for the NHS. I have faith in them as well. But I can still be skeptical of the politics taking place within the NHS, especially at the top levels. I can still reasonably ask why the hell anyone should comply with some of the ridiculous mandates. And I can reasonably compare the results across the world that clearly demonstrate the vaccine/mask/lockdown/passport strategy is an utter failure.

Agree again. I guess I just focus on what I can do over what decisions get made way above me. That doesn't make me complicit because if a patient told me they didn't want the vaccines I would support their choice to the hilt. Under my governing body I have to have consent. Everyone should have the right to choose.

Remember when a million people marched against the Iraq war? It still happened, because that's the type of democracy we have here now. Manage the message, manage the reaction. Goebbels was right on that.
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#311

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:56 pm

tokeless wrote: Remember when a million people marched against the Iraq war? It still happened, because that's the type of democracy we have here now. Manage the message, manage the reaction. Goebbels was right on that.


We seem to generally agree on the broader picture. Where we seem to differ is you are more willing to think that everyone should just comply with whatever comes out of the NHS (health organizations around the world).

The implication of you mentioning the 1 million person march is that because it didn’t work, people should have not wasted their time and just accepted what took place.

Extrapolate that thought process to today and you are saying people should just accept vaccines, masks, lockdowns, passports, and whatever other mandates come forth, because you think “do not comply” is a waste of time.

I think the above is where we tend to differ in opinion.
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#312

Postby tokeless » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:37 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
tokeless wrote: Remember when a million people marched against the Iraq war? It still happened, because that's the type of democracy we have here now. Manage the message, manage the reaction. Goebbels was right on that.


We seem to generally agree on the broader picture. Where we seem to differ is you are more willing to think that everyone should just comply with whatever comes out of the NHS (health organizations around the world).

The implication of you mentioning the 1 million person march is that because it didn’t work, people should have not wasted their time and just accepted what took place.

Extrapolate that thought process to today and you are saying people should just accept vaccines, masks, lockdowns, passports, and whatever other mandates come forth, because you think “do not comply” is a waste of time.

I think the above is where we tend to differ in opinion.


Not at all Richard. Show me where I've mentioned comply or accept. What I believe is that people generally these days are passive and don't see or want to see power and what it does over their heads. This has taken generations to get to. Distraction and blatant lies with the media playing it's part. I'm not saying people, if confronted with reality will agree to it, but they lack the will to make politicians accountable. Did you know, poor people voted for Boris Johnson because they thought he spoke his mind and did what he believed in. He also made them laugh. The same people are using food banks and are having benefits cut. If they offered £20 Amazon vouchers per vaccine they'd be queuing out the door. That's how easy it's become to manipulate people. As I said, and will repeat again... I chose to get the vaccine. If you, or anyone else doesn't want it, I am fine with that. That doesn't make me passive, accepting or complicit... it's a choice, pure and simple.
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#313

Postby tokeless » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:44 pm

Just to add... I remember in 1985-6 standing in the cold and rain campaigning for better pay for nurses. We had the banners, the placards, the works. People honked their horns in support as they drove past. Meanwhile, the hospital were paying agency nurses double time to cover our shifts... dog eats dog. It changed nothing and that's 35 years ago now. I've campaigned, I've fought the law and the law won. I'm not passive, just wiser and I look after what I can change, which is what I can touch in real time. What fight have you fought Richard? Did it change anything or just you?
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#314

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:10 pm

tokeless wrote: Did you know, poor people voted for Boris Johnson because…That's how easy it's become to manipulate people.


Did you know poor people voted for Jeremy Corbyn, because [insert all the factual, counter talking points you like].

Agreed. It’s easy to manipulate people.

Still, people are often only given the option to vote for piece of garbage #1 or piece of garbage #2. Plenty of people vote for #1 over #2 because they see them as a lesser evil. Corbyn’s platform is a big steaming pile of s#@t, but like you said, it’s easy to manipulate people. After all, look at Boris’ platform of s@#$.

And this game can be played all day long. We can go back and forth pointing out the strengths of one, placing those few strengths on a pedestal and sweeping all the garbage under the rug. But, at the end of the day they are politicians that want power, so they all end up selling themselves for votes.

As I said, and will repeat again... I chose to get the vaccine. If you, or anyone else doesn't want it, I am fine with that. That doesn't make me passive, accepting or complicit... it's a choice, pure and simple.


I’m not talking about just the vaccine and your personal choice. I think we agree on this.

I guess what keeps popping in my mind is the kids that were on the beach being fined for breaking a public health mandate. I got the feeling you felt that they should have just complied. For me, the same as the vaccine is a personal choice, so is it a personal choice how a person deals with all of these mandates.

I think we agree there is personal accountability. But personal accountability does not necessarily mean to just comply, obey, and pay the fines, etc. It means acknowledging the risk you take when you behave in ways that go against those in power. If I’m a kid on the beach, I’m not just going silently.
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